Hi all--this is a series of threads on supposed +quot;satanic+quot; crime primarily, but a

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Hi all--this is a series of threads on supposed "satanic" crime primarily, but also includes threads and posts on other Christian Hysteric issues. Sources are MYSTERIA BBS, and the "bulletin board" (Cult Watch Echo) and MAGICKNET echoes on CULT MONITOR BBS. This picks up where WIC-SATN.THD in X-HATE3.ARC pretty much leaves off, being that some of the threads within may be familiar. Happy perusal! MK-H Msg#: 2121 *MAGICKNET* 07/00/88 06:47:00 (Read 0 Times) From: JOHN MCCLIMANS To: ROWAN MOONSTONE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2113 (RE: HERE WE GO AGAIN. PT. 2) I agree! I also resent being labled a satanist! I am not a christian heretic! On the other hand, when Margot Adler was interviewing for Drawing Down the Moon, She interviewed all of the Church of All Worlds priest/esses and the only thing that we all agreed on was that if we were not being a threat to society, then we were not doing our job right. But then we were a sassy bunch. And you know about weirdos who really believe that THOU ART GOD/DESS --- * Origin: ThelemaNet - Hail Eris! * (415) 548-0163 (Opus 1:161/93) Msg#: 2044 *BULLETIN BOARD* 07/08/88 19:14:00 (Read 0 Times) From: KEN ARBUCKLE To: PHILLIP HANSFORD Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1378 (RE: SATANISM, ET AL) Dear Sir, Are you suggesting that Satanism has no Jonestown's to its credit? ken --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: Maltese Alien * Carnegie, PA * (412) 279-7011 * FidoNet (1:129/41) Msg#: 2048 *BULLETIN BOARD* 07/09/88 18:51:00 (Read 0 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: KEN ARBUCKLE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2044 (RE: SATANISM, ET AL) I'm afraid it has not been PROVEN that Satanism exists, outside of the established Church of Satan in S. F. and the Temple of Set, and some pretty weird , wacked out , drug crazed teen agers. The numerous allegations of "ritualistic child abuse" have NO hard evidence to go on , and one by one, the cases are falling apart. I've followed the McMartin Day Care thing for quite a while, and it's a comedy of errors all the way. Even one of the DA's assistants quit because he said the children were being manipulated. The FBI doesn't believe it exists, and neither does the Wisc. Governor's Task force leader on "cult Crime" All the hard evidence is in the area of crazy teens. --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: Rock Island (on) Line - Newalla, Ok.- (405)391-9488 (1:147/3) Msg#: 2062 *BULLETIN BOARD* 07/10/88 21:23:00 (Read 0 Times) From: BRAD HICKS To: KEN ARBUCKLE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2048 (RE: SATANISM, ET AL) KA> Are you suggesting that Satanism has no Jonestown's to KA> its credit? If he's not, then I am. I'm not a Satanist, but I insist that there is nothing like enough evidence to convict Satanists per se of crimes, or to link any Satanic group or organization to any massacre, mass or individual. --- Sirius 0.50 * Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523) Msg#: 2269 *MAGICKNET* 07/00/88 08:35:00 (Read 0 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: FARRELL MCGOVERN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2261 (RE: ONE MORE TIME) From what I've collected and studied, we're dealing with two seperate phenomena here. First, we have the kids who are high on drugs and more than a little socially maladjusted. These are the cases whith concrete proof. these are the cases where they have bodies, and animal carcases, and 'Satanic grafitti" etc. HOWEVER, these cases are usually the kind which are related to some other cause, ie, the drug theft that precipitated the Kasso/Lawlers case, and NOT primarily for "religious" reasons. Then there is the other type, which as fr as I can see is pure "urban legend". This is the myth of the highly organized Satanic groups preying on children in daycare centers and practicing human sacrifice. This is the group that's supposed to practice ritual child abuse and human sacrifice, and have highly placed public figures active in the groups. There is not ONE SHRED of CONCRETE evidence in any of these cases. There is a LOT of heresay and circumstantial evidence, but nothing that would hold up in a court of law. I agree, lets not get caught up in a Witch Hunt otHf the Satanists and ceremonial Magicians just to save our own hides. Let's show the rest of the world that this IS urban legend!!! There are some cops out there that know it is, like Ken Lanning with the FBI and a couple of others that I'm corresponding with. Let's see if we can start an educational movement instead of feeding the fires. After all, we are still under the constitution which says innocent UNTIl proven guilty! BB Rowan --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4) Msg#: 2273 *MAGICKNET* 07/00/88 08:38:00 (Read 0 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: ALFGAR MAHARG Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2269 (RE: ONE MORE TIME) After hearing a little about how Terry researched his book, I think he's a real slimeball, and I wouldn't believe him if he said snow was white. The chapter head of the N. D. branch of WLPA works with the sister of Arliss Perry, who is mentioned in the book as the first murder victim. Seems Mr. Terry came to N. D. and talked to the family representing himself as working with the N.Y. Police dept. He never mentioned to the family that he was writing a book, and they had no idea, until it turned up in print. Prarie Wind says they're not the type to sue the bastard, although "I" certainly would! She says the family's gone through hell all over again since the publication of "Ultimate Evil" even to the point of having people call them at home and ask if they had a copy of the book that culd be borrowed!!! THAT"S insensitivity at it's highest point( or lowest, depending on the point of view!!) BB Rowan --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4) Msg#: 2279 *MAGICKNET* 07/10/88 00:37:00 (Read 0 Times) From: FARRELL MCGOVERN To: PAT CRUMHORN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2273 (RE: ONE MORE TIME) PC> 93. OK. I know there are many people on this echo who are PC>quite tolerant of fundamentalist christianity. I do not happen PC>to be one of them. Are there like-minded people here who would I don't like 'em either, but they have done one good service. I formerly Chirstian friend of mine who was sympathetic to Paganism/The Craft essently became Pagan when a Pentacostal harrased her about not being a "True Christian" because she couldn't "Speak in Tongues". So, she became a pagan, and now is priestess of her own coven. For this service, I do believe that they do serve a usefull purpose... ttyl Farrell --- * Origin: Solsbury Hill:Home of ’ristic Computer Consultants (Opus Msg#: 2223 *MAGICKNET* 07/00/88 16:18:00 (Read 1 Times) From: ZHAHAI STEWART To: PAT CRUMHORN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2192 (RE: ONE MORE TIME) PC> We could put out a quarterly newsletter, distributed to all PC>major law-enforecment groups, that would totally dwarf any of PC>the "occult crimes" newsletters, both in sheer number of cases PC>and in horrific details. Actually, part of what would be good is to be an example of better documentation and standards of evidence. The anti-cult people need to be shown up for what they are. --- * Origin: Adelante - 300 meters above Boulder, CO (Opus 1:104/93) Msg#: 2245 *MAGICKNET* 07/00/88 11:09:00 (Read 1 Times) From: ZHAHAI STEWART To: ROWAN MOONSTONE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2223 (RE: ONE MORE TIME) Rowan, I agree that it is very hard for people to come out of the broom closet - but despite coming from different backgrounds, maybe what Joe is advocating is not all that different from what you have been advocating: education and public awareness as a counter to the distortions which will be promulgated whether we all hide or not. I haven't heard him say it is easy, but that it is the only way to defend ourselves in the public view. Now, there are two ways this could be taken - that everybody has to come out publically (which I have never seen you advocate; to the contrary you have supported the rights of those who want to remain the hidden children) - or that some of our people who feel a calling (a type of Warrior?) will work publicly (and hopefully without too much harassment from those hidden children who feel that NOBODY should let on that we even exist). If Joe is calling for the latter, it seems to me that you two are in tune; if the former, he does need a deeper understanding of the situation. B*B ~z~ PS: Joe, which is it? --- * Origin: Adelante - 300 meters above Boulder, CO (Opus 1:104/93) Msg#: 2260 *MAGICKNET* 07/11/88 19:51:00 (Read 0 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: JOE TOTARO Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2245 (RE: ONE MORE TIME) Joe, I DO think that several folks, like Mike Warnke and Lauren Stratford are saying there is an international Satanic conspiracy. File 18 cites 50,000 human sacrifices a year!!! This certainly sounds like they think its a pretty big thing. I think the truth is that we have a few isolated bunches of crazies here, but try convincing Larry Jones and Vile 18 of that!!! Some of the things I'm doing currently include constructing a time line of all the cases of significance and making map markings in different colors for actual cases with "hard" evidence and cases of "urban legend " type rumors. Should prove interesting. BB Rowan --- * Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523) Msg#: 2261 *MAGICKNET* 07/11/88 19:54:00 (Read 1 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: MICHELLE HASS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2260 (RE: ONE MORE TIME) Michelle, I'd really loe to get a look at those files. Could I send you a blank disk and get them that way? I've got HUGE hardcopy files of a LOT of hate material. I could send you a listing of what I've got if you're interested. I've already sent copies to Gordon Melton and ACLU, Circle and the WLPA. BB Rowan --- * Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523) Msg#: 2196 *MAGICKNET* 07/10/88 11:34:00 (Read 0 Times) From: JEFFREY NONKEN To: DAVID RICE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1997 (RE: HERE WE REALLY GO AGAIN!) > What the hell?!?!? What does bikers and homosexuality > have to to with satanism!?!? Good-fucking-grief!! (sorry > folks.) Where have you been for the past 30 years? > > Bikers are for the most part very decient, law abiding > citizens of our community. I rode a bike for three years > and know that bikers get a lot of shit thrown their way > for little or no logical reason other than ignorance. Now Dave, how can you say that? Everybody KNOWS bikers are violent, homosexual rapists. They sweep across the countryside like a plague of locusts, rapacious and unstoppable. The Hell's Angels are a mild but otherwise typical example of the complete moral bankruptcy driving a motorcycle can lead you to. And the women who ride with them are all sluts. I say we should defend our freedom and shoot all motorcyclists on sight. I wish I had seen the original message you are replying to! --- Opus 1.03b <> NoOrigin 3.1 --- ConfMail V3.31 * Origin: Ophiophile Opus (1:103/522.5) Msg#: 2264 *MAGICKNET* 07/10/88 19:11:00 (Read 0 Times) From: ALFGAR MAHARG To: MICHAEL BARNETT Subj: RESTRICTED ACCESS I am curious as to how "pagan sympathizers" are required to demonstrate their credentials -- especially as I have seen more than one complaint in craft press about people pretending to be friendly as Fundie Infiltrators. How do you establish that someone is _not_ a mole? --- * Origin: OPUS DEII = BaphoNet-by-the-Sea (718) 499-9277 (Opus 1:107/293) Msg#: 2270 *MAGICKNET* 07/00/88 08:38:00 (Read 0 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: FARRELL MCGOVERN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2110 (RE: SNEER IF YOU LIKE BUT...) The fact that this particular urban legend could sound appealing to some psycho chills my blood. Sooner or later, some nut is going to try the ritualistic child abuse thing, if it hasn't already been done. Then the Witch hunters will say" SEE, WE WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG!" I wish the industry would see that it's provided them with a perfect blue print and a guarantee of all the attention they could want. Sometimes well meaning people are SO STUPID!!! BBl Rowan --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4) Msg#: 2305 *MAGICKNET* 07/11/88 21:00:00 (Read 0 Times) From: ZHAHAI STEWART To: ROWAN MOONSTONE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2270 (RE: SNEER IF YOU LIKE BUT...) RM>Sooner or later, some nut is going to try the ritualistic child abuse RM>thing, if it hasn't already been done. Then the Witch hunters will RM>say" SEE, WE WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG!" This is one of my biggest concerns too. Every time there is some non-occult identified horrific crime, they have to watch out for copycats. Every time product poisoning hits the news, there are new outbreaks. Clearly there are a LOT of sick people around ready to imitate what they hear about. If one were cynical, they might wonder if the occult crime industry would be all that displeased in private if their activities wound up being self fulfilling - their business would increase. On a less dangerous but very parallel track, a few years ago there were a few authors and speakers who made a pretty handsome living telling everyone about the dangers of computer crime. They repeated a few incidents incessantly, it got coverage and clippings as if these were many separate incidents. They made outrageous claims that billions (!) of dollars were being stolen every year, yet they couldn't find many new incidents to add to their litany. The reason was that companies tend to want to hush up incidents (true, but it is pretty amazing that the few incidents which came to light amounted to so many orders of magnitude less). So how did they get their figures? Mumble mumble. Anyway, for a while you couldn't pick up a computer trade journal without reading that white collar computer crime paid off very well (hundreds of thou per incident), was only very rarely caught, and even when caught the companies usually were generous in settlement in order to keep publicity down - almost never including prosecution. It was simultaneously the best possible plug for people to commit computer crime (and published in the best possible media), and a great anxiety buildup to sell their services. Either effect benefits the computer crime expert - maybe they could find some more incidents for their lectures. Unneccessary and often overly vague legislation was passed, much of which is only tolerated because it is seldom used. The cited incidents, by the way, were often only very peripherally involved with computers - sometimes the same scams would have worked before computers (and probably did); only a small minority involved programmers, but there was an intense paranoia that unhappy or greedy programmers were a major threat to US business and had to be surveiled and restricted constantly. Etc, etc, etc. Even with the differences (occult crime experts are more dangerous!), I think a similar mechanism is at work, often with no better motives. We don't have to go all the way back to the prohibition of marijuana to find similarities. B*B ~z~ --- * Origin: Adelante - 300 meters above Boulder, CO (Opus 1:104/93) Msg#: 2271 *MAGICKNET* 07/00/88 08:44:00 (Read 0 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: FARRELL MCGOVERN Subj: RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY Farrell, this woman went on national TV and admitted to participating in MURDER!!! THERE IS NO STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS ON MURDER11111 Where are the police in this instance. They've got an admitted murderer and they're doing nothing. Has this been investigated??? Inquiring minds want to know!!! BB Rowan --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4) Msg#: 2275 *MAGICKNET* 07/10/88 01:45:00 (Read 0 Times) From: FARRELL MCGOVERN To: ROWAN MOONSTONE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2271 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY) RM>Farrell, this woman went on national TV and admitted to participating RM>in MURDER!!! THERE IS NO STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS ON MURDER11111 RM>Where are the police in this instance. They've got an admitted murderer RM>and they're doing nothing. Has this been investigated??? Inquiring RM>minds want to know!!! BB Rowan I would like to know too! I usually don't watch Geroldo, but I do respect his integrity as a reporter. A reporter's source is considered as confidential as the person who makes a confession to a Catholic priest, although the law doesn't see it that way, a reporter will do everything they can to protect their sources. She should be brought to justice, and I hope that they are waiting for her to slip up to nab her...but didn't anyone else see the show? Can you get transcripts? If I run across any info, I will post. ttyl Farrell --- * Origin: Solsbury Hill:Home of ’ristic Computer Consultants (Opus Msg#: 2304 *MAGICKNET* 07/11/88 20:54:00 (Read 0 Times) From: ZHAHAI STEWART To: ROWAN MOONSTONE Subj: PAGAN PR & SATANISM CONFERENCE Also to Brad. Is there still any movement towards a meeting this fall on Pagan PR and Law Enforcement, etc? By the way, I notice in Circle Network News there is an announcement: July 16-17: Conference in Rhode Island. A Pagan-sponsored public forum addressing the problems of Satanic crime, Pagan public relations, and other topics. Contact M.A.R.I., (401) 884-4352 (I figure that CNN is at least as widely available as MagicNet, so reprinting it here won't hurt). Are you aware of these folks? It would be interesting to know how their event is organized and what the results are. B*B ~z~ --- * Origin: Adelante - 300 meters above Boulder, CO (Opus 1:104/93) Msg#: 2309 *MAGICKNET* 07/11/88 21:52:00 (Read 0 Times) From: ZHAHAI STEWART To: JOE TOTARO Subj: RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY NASTIE Joe, we have only gotten your views on real world satanism indirectly, as comments about New Jersey, or agreement/disagreements with people here. It would be interesting to just present an overview of what your research has yielded in the way of conclusions. I gather that you think there are satanists who do horrific crimes (you mentioned a figure of 2000 nationally, I think). Do you agree with the distinction between disturbed teenagers not really practicing religion, and organized abusive criminal religious satanists? Are they really organized, and do they cover up major crimes? You also clearly see that the folks here, who tend to follow paths of Wicca, Thelema, Native American religions, Cabbala, etc., are a far cry from the satanists you have investigated - have you run into many sources in your research that do not understand this distinction? Tell us a bit about yourself and your researches, if you will. I think it will help us all understand better, and miscommunicate less. B*B ~z~ --- * Origin: Adelante - 300 meters above Boulder, CO (Opus 1:104/93) Msg#: 2346 *MAGICKNET* 07/00/88 14:57:00 (Read 0 Times) From: SARAH DRAGONWING To: ROWAN MOONSTONE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2333 (RE: ONE MORE TIME) I hate to see that stuff being done. I mean, the "Satanic" and "Craft" being lumped into the same catagory. I guess since that is what I grew up with, it kind of pulls my chain. Of course, Lindsay didn't do it any good with his book,'Satan is alive and well on Planet Earth'. *heh* Sarah --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 2348 *MAGICKNET* 07/12/88 14:21:00 (Read 0 Times) From: BRAD HICKS To: PHILLIP HANSFORD Subj: RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY NAST BTW, Phil, did anybody ever warn you that File 18 has marked you as one of the people who's recruiting for the Vast Satanic Conspiracy? --- Sirius 0.50 * Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523) Msg#: 2359 *MAGICKNET* 07/12/88 07:58:00 (Read 0 Times) From: DAVID RICE To: FARRELL MCGOVERN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2348 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY NAST) Satanism seems to be in vogue lately. Everyone wants to make a name by "fighting satanism." Seems to me that to do so for media sake is worshiping satan for money and prestige. Here in L.A. one person a day is shot to death, and many more wounded. I doubt if any so-called satanist could be as bad. --- * Origin: Astro-Net 714 662-2294 The Lesbian Dorm (Opus 1:103/503) Msg#: 2349 *MAGICKNET* 07/12/88 14:27:00 (Read 0 Times) From: BRAD HICKS To: ZHAHAI STEWART Subj: RE: PAGAN PR & SATANISM CONFERENCES I'm waiting for Rowan to get back to me about CoG's offer of possible sponsorship. I have a tentative committment from Selena that if we can cover costs, she'll be there. That's ALL I have. Now that the Rhode Island conference is back on track, I'm not AS sure that it's important. After this weekend, I'll call around (I've heard conflicting reports about whether or not Selena would be there, and she's one of my usual sources) and get an account of what went down. Will anybody on HERE be there? If it seems to me afterwards that they didn't cover the material I wanted covered, then I'll try to go full-steam-ahead on the October 23rd get-together. --- Sirius 0.50 * Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523) Msg#: 2386 *MAGICKNET* 07/12/88 14:18:00 (Read 0 Times) From: AMMOND SHADOWCRAFT To: ALL Subj: THE NEW MCCARTHYISM F O R I M M E D I A T E A C T I O N I N C O L O R A D O The state of Colorado is involved in another era of obnixous McCarthyism. On 11 July 1988, Channel 13 in Colorado Springs aired a segment on Satanism. In this segment KRDO, at 719-632-1515, stated that for ritualistic purposes, pagans and witches were Satanists. (Please note that I did not see the segment but heard about it from the community. We are trying to find a recording of this broadcast presently.) After several calls to the station we found that the station got their information exclusively from one James McCarthy of the Sanctuary Institute P.O. Box 4591, Boulder, Colorado, 80306. His phone is (303) 443-1486. This campaign is dangerous. I personally know two witches that lost good jobs because of such campaigns of mis-information. Please act now by writing to James McCarthy indicating your concern. As far as McCarthy is concerned all that are not Christian are Satanists. We need to educate this man with letters, phone calls, and face to face converstaions. To preclude other campaigns of mis-information I propose that individuals or covens in each area send form letters to their respective television and radio stations indicating their willingness to talk about neo-Paganism and Wicca, or for that matter anything else that might be misconstrued as Satanism. If we can tell our story first we can derail religious propaganda before it gets on the air. Members of D.A.W.N in Denver have made some headway with local television and radio stations. Members of WindFire Coven have recently (July 8th, 1988) appeared on Channel 7 in Denver. Good PR can be gotten, but we must voluenteer to talk. Otherwise the stations will ean upon McCarthy types for information. It seems that the infamous File18 is working it's way down slowly to a personal level. We can do something about this campaign. It involves work and time. After our calls to Channel 13 in Colorado Springs, we found that others had been calling. The reporter was a little defensive but acknowledged that a problem might have been generated. We will be watching tonight (July 12th) to see if any clarifications will be made. --- * Origin: SMARTNet - Changing for the better (Neat! It really is!) (Opus Msg#: 2387 *MAGICKNET* 07/12/88 14:26:00 (Read 0 Times) From: AMMOND SHADOWCRAFT To: ZHAHAI STEWERT Subj: THE NEW MCCARTHYISM... Can you get us the latest address and phone number for the Sancturary Institute in Boulder? Thanx. --- * Origin: SMARTNet - Changing for the better (Neat! It really is!) (Opus Msg. # 2628 Dated: 07/14/88 ( ) Subj: Philosophical Christians To: All From: Sysop R)ead, N)ext, P)revious, E)xit? Read Left 17:39:14, 07/14/88 Was chatting with a 'Christian' who wondered where all the Christian files were. I had to admit that this board doesn't paint a very positive image regards Christianity...It isn't that there aren't any files on it, there are (Just look at the HYSTERICA file area for a sampling of the hate and lies propagated in the name of Christianity.). But I have yet to see much on the Christian boards which is positive, or even neutral...It would be nice to get some positive articles on Christianity for this board. Surely Christianity is concerned with more than name calling other religions and other Christian sects. Surely there is more to it than reading the latest Chic Publications about how to accept Jesus...Is there no substance to Christianity? Is there no intellect? Is there no philosophy?...I agree with much of Christianity in philosophy, just not in practice...And so, if there happen to be any Christians (so called) out there reading this message, I challenge you to find some *positive* files dealing with Christianity and to upload them to the board. Also, feel free to address these issues in the message base...(It is true that many pagans have something of an anti-Christian attitude. Is it any wonder what with all the conspircy lies being circulated against them by a vocal minority of Christian Hysterics?)...//Phil// Msg#: 2434 *BULLETIN BOARD* 07/14/88 21:55:00 (Read 4 Times) From: BRIAN LANTZ To: MICHELLE HASS Subj: SATAN IS JUDGED - WHO CARES? Satanism is like a lot of problems Christians only make worse by drawing attention to, wasting their time talking about, and fundamentally with which bore me to tears. Anything associated with him is obviously going to be an obscenity. SO WHAAT? Are our lives in Christ so boring that we have to occuppy oursevles with obscenities? Has obscenity become such a curiosity ? Brethern, as with a lot of other social nonsense, lets give it a break. Ignore it - and over a period of time, I can GUARANTTEE ya'all it will go away. In Christ, Brian. --- * Origin: The Key of David*San Diego,CA*(619)479-2104 (Opus 1:202/113) Msg#: 2476 *MAGICKNET* 07/13/88 11:27:00 (Read 0 Times) From: FARRELL MCGOVERN To: PHILLIP HANSFORD Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2473 (RE: HERE WE GO AGAIN. PT. 2) PH>I hope you won't misunderstand me when I say this, but it seems PH>apparent that there are 'Good Satanists' and 'Bad Satanists'... PH>Just because one does not happen to agree with another's religious PH>beliefs does not mean we should criticize them, or lump them PH>all together with the 'bad guys'...Satanism *does not* equal PH>the sorts of crimes that have been often associated with it. PH>I wish that the 'Good Satanists' would be more vocal on this... I do understand this, since the person who turned me onto Crowley was (at the time) a Satanist. I was still a Christian then, but was having a great deal of problems with it...and I didn't think Satanism was they way out since it simply took everything I disliked and turned it upside down. An ugly piece of art doesn't improve by turning it upside down! BTW, this person is now practicing the Craft, and has totally turned her back on Satanism. ttyl Farrell --- * Origin: Solsbury Hill:Home of ’ristic Computer Consultants (Opus Msg#: 2481 *MAGICKNET* 07/13/88 19:31:00 (Read 0 Times) From: FARRELL MCGOVERN To: JOHN MCCLIMANS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2476 (RE: HERE WE GO AGAIN. PT. 2) JM>I agree! I also resent being labled a satanist! I am not a christian JM>heretic! On the other hand, when Margot Adler was interviewing JM>for Drawing Down the Moon, She interviewed all of the Church JM>of All Worlds priest/esses and the only thing that we all agreed JM>on was that if we were not being a threat to society, then we JM>were not doing our job right. But then we were a sassy bunch. JM>And you know about weirdos who really believe that THOU ART GOD/DESS Right On! A lot of Discordianism seems to be along the same lines, but maybe a little bit more surrealistic. Or, to quote the head of the surrealistic anarchists in _Metrophage_: "I am here by the authority of the people, and I will not leave till I get my raincoat back!" What a great battle cry! lytt llerraF --- * Origin: Solsbury Hill:Home of ’ristic Computer Consultants (Opus Msg#: 2504 *MAGICKNET* 07/15/88 19:41:00 (Read 0 Times) From: JOHN MCCLIMANS To: FARRELL MCGOVERN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2481 (RE: HERE WE GO AGAIN. PT. 2) Have you run into the Poll Parot discordians yet? The ones that can zip off "hail Eris" or All hail discordia" faster that a Roman Catholic can say a Hail Mary? My usual response to them is to tell a story about a discordian who upon debarking from his airplane at gate 23 was told by a friend that it might be a message for some other discordian on the same airplane rather than for him. --- * Origin: ThelemaNet - Hail Eris! * (415) 548-0163 (Opus 1:161/93) Msg#: 2487 *MAGICKNET* 07/13/88 20:10:00 (Read 0 Times) From: FARRELL MCGOVERN To: ALFGAR MAHARG Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2418 (RE: RESTRICTED ACCESS) AM>I am curious as to how "pagan sympathizers" are required to demonstrate AM> their credentials -- especially as I have seen more than one AM>complaint in craft press about people pretending to be friendly AM>as Fundie Infiltrators. How do you establish that someone is AM>_not_ a mole? Simply ask them to say the Lord's Prayer backwards. If they ask you "are you feeling O.K.? Or have you been smoking some of those funny cigarettes?" or something along those lines, you have a legit pagan type. If they run fleeing from you, THAT is the Christian mole. ttyl Farrell --- * Origin: Solsbury Hill:Home of ’ristic Computer Consultants (Opus Msg#: 2491 *MAGICKNET* 07/15/88 18:08:00 (Read 0 Times) From: DAVID RICE To: AMMOND SHADOWCRAFT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2386 (RE: THE NEW MCCARTHYISM) Though I can comfortable call myself "Pagan," I cannot bring myself to write a letter to McCarthy (!) and tell him where I live!!! That's like asking him to send his goons to get me. The closet is where I belong, as it seems the safest place to be. --- * Origin: Astro-Net 714 662-2294 The Lesbian Dorm (Opus 1:103/503) Msg#: 2495 *MAGICKNET* 07/15/88 14:32:00 (Read 0 Times) From: JUDY HARROW To: AMMOND SHADOWCRAFT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2491 (RE: THE NEW MCCARTHYISM) A friendly suggestion: in contacting tv and radio stations, it helps to have some sort of information packet to include with the letter. Producers are often strapped for time and need to inform themselves about an amazing variety of subjects in each work week (if you've ever wondered how they could dare interview an author without having read the book, it's because some of these folk interview 20 authors a week.) Something that looks professional - good spelling, margins, punctuation, etc. and reads calm and informative is a big help to them. In this context, what helps them helps us. A good resource, that I am personally proud of my role in creating, is an article on Witchcraft that appeared in the September 1987 issue of New Woman magazine. Not that it says anything you couldn't tell them yourselves, of course, but somehow the fact that this information has already been filtered through some objective, outside minds seems to lend credibility. And the proofreading and layout are already done for you. Don Frew did a Public Information Officer's manual for CoG that would be an excellent resource for you; and Diana Paxon is currently working on a more broadly defined version of the same. Best of wishes, Witches. I have always been somewhat awed by the courage of those who are open Witches away from the Coasts (and Chicago). Our moral and "tactical air" support are with you. warmly / Judy --- * Origin: OPUS DEII = BaphoNet-by-the-Sea (718) 499-9277 (Opus 1:107/293) Msg#: 2515 *MAGICKNET* 07/16/88 00:06:00 (Read 0 Times) From: FARRELL MCGOVERN To: ZHAHAI STEWART Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2305 (RE: SNEER IF YOU LIKE BUT...) ZS>much of which is only tolerated because it is seldom used. The ZS>cited incidents, by the way, were often only very peripherally ZS>involved with computers - sometimes the same scams would have ZS>worked before computers (and probably did); only a small minority ZS>involved programmers, but there was an intense paranoia that ZS>unhappy or greedy programmers were a major threat to US business ZS>and had to be surveiled and restricted constantly. Etc, etc, ZS>etc. ZS> ZS>Even with the differences (occult crime experts are more dangerous!), ZS>I think a similar mechanism is at work, often with no better ZS>motives. We don't have to go all the way back to the prohibition ZS>of marijuana to find similarities. I think that it is true of just about everything that has freedom inherent in it. Computer networks are probably the next to come under fire, since there is really no regulation, and thus any possible crime can be inherent in it. Computer networks are probably the next to come under fire, since there is really no regulation, and thus any possible crime can be committed over them....we saw a bit of this when that sysop had his system confiscated for having card numbers on it, it could be they are just waiting, monitoring, looking for something that will be big enough to generate enough public opinion to push though a bill regulating data communications. Simularly, they are probably looking for some incident, or series of incidents to try and raise public opinion against the "satanist witches". In that Geroldo show I mentioned before, they were saying that the Son of Sam killings were actually done by more than one person, all of them being members of some "Satanic" group. Do you NY^2 people know anymore about this? ttyl Farrell --- * Origin: Solsbury Hill:Home of ’ristic Computer Consultants (Opus Msg#: 2519 *MAGICKNET* 07/16/88 00:43:00 (Read 0 Times) From: FARRELL MCGOVERN To: DAVID RICE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2518 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY NAST) DR> Satanism seems to be in vogue lately. Everyone wants to make DR>a name by "fighting satanism." Seems to me that to do so for DR>media sake is worshiping satan for money and prestige. DR> DR> Here in L.A. one person a day is shot to death, and many DR>more wounded. I doubt if any so-called satanist could be as bad. I am not so much concered with the actual "rise" of "Satanic" crime so much as the public's perception of who is involved. It would be hard for the average person on the street to think we are involved in "Satanic" crimes if we seem to be fighting them... ttyl Farrell --- * Origin: Solsbury Hill:Home of ’ristic Computer Consultants (Opus Msg#: 2597 *MAGICKNET* 07/17/88 00:51:00 (Read 0 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: BLANCHE WATTENBERG Subj: MOLES That's a difficult thing. We in the WLPA know of at least one mole in the form of a not too sympathetic cop who's gotten initiated into at least 2 covens in the Phoenix area.They were NOT too pleased to find out, but the info is reliable, straight from the horse's mouth, in writing!!! BB Rowan --- * Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523) Msg#: 2652 *MAGICKNET* 07/18/88 00:15:00 (Read 0 Times) From: JUDY HARROW To: ROWAN MOONSTONE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2597 (RE: MOLES) Just to confuse everybody, I want to share an experience. A local coven was penetrated by a journalism student. The young man had no personal interest in the Craft, but was writing a major feature article on it as his Master's thesis in Journalism School. When the coven leader found out about the deception, great pain and shock and resentment were the feelings. But that young man did the Craft two great services. We were at that time in the last stages of our battle for the right to perform legal marriages. The City Corporation Counsel had issued a decision in our favor, and the last ditch effort of the Clergy Registry was to bury that decision in a file and not inform us about it. The journalism student got ahold of the decision and turned it over to us. With it in hand, we finally were able to get registered as clergy. Then the same young man wrote the Liberty Magazine article - the one I think I sent you - and that article has proven a useful handout and credential over the years. He lied to us, he cheated - but he also helped us a great deal. I still don't know how I'm supposed to feel about all this. It is just possible that some of these moles will report back saying - those people are crazy and probably damned - but I didn't see them roasting any babies. There is such a thing as basic honesty and fairness. Perhaps we should work magic that the truth be known about us, and let the Lady's wisdom guide us from there. warmly / Judy --- * Origin: OPUS DEII = BaphoNet-by-the-Sea (718) 499-9277 (Opus 1:107/293) Msg#: 2600 *MAGICKNET* 07/17/88 01:01:00 (Read 0 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: AMMOND SHADOWCRAFT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2495 (RE: THE NEW MCCARTHYISM) Speaking from experience, I would say that whatever you do to Mr. McCarthy is definitely NOT going to result in him changing his mind one iota. The thing to concentrate on here is the media. concentrate on the TV and radio stations and leave McCarthy out of it. He's probably expecting and looking forward to a fight. Be perverse and don't give him a direct confrontation. It's a wte of energy. BB Rowan --- * Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523) Msg#: 2602 *MAGICKNET* 07/17/88 01:12:00 (Read 0 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: FARRELL MCGOVERN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2275 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY) We're getting there. I've established contact with a number of cops . One in particular in the south is using me as resource material for his research. Let's hope this leads to something good. BB Rowan --- * Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523) Msg#: 2612 *MAGICKNET* 07/16/88 13:17:00 (Read 0 Times) From: OZ TECH To: ALL Subj: BOOK REVIEW: LYONS' SATAN WANTS YOU I've just picked up a copy of Arthur Lyon's book, SATAN WANTS YOU: THE CULT OF DEVIL WORSHIP IN AMERICA, from Mysterious Press. I though I would describe to you, since people here occasionally discuss the topic. It's got a rather spooky picture of LaVey on the cover. Although there seem to be a few factual flaws here and there, this is to be expected in a work that tries to deal with the more lurid and sensationalist side of the occult. Lyons traces the strange history of Satanism, a tradition almost entirely defined by the imagination of fearful Christian theologians and Inquisitors, passed on by historians and journalists, and today -- as always -- the scape-goat, the image of all that conventional society fears in itself. Along the way he delves into some of the groups and individuals accused of Satanism by others -- the early pagans groups, the victims of colonial rule, the Knights Templar, the Freemasons, Aleister Crowley -- as well as the more rare cases of professed Satanic organizations, such as the Process Church of the Final Judgement, the Church of Satan, the Temple of Set, and the Church of Satanic Liberation. Lyons explores, too, the forms taken by solitary Satanism, ranging from the harmless fancies of teenagers to the psychotic insanity of Charlie Manson, the Night Stalker, and others who ascribed their deeds to Satan. --- * Origin: IBM_Tech_Fido (Opus 1:322/1) Msg#: 2613 *MAGICKNET* 07/16/88 13:19:00 (Read 0 Times) From: OZ TECH To: ALL Subj: BOOK REVIEW: LYONS' SATAN WANTS YOU PART 2 Lyons shows some degree of critical awareness; he notes, for example, the conflicts between the picture of the Process painted by the sociologist William Bainbridge versus the claims of journalist Ed Sanders . On the other hand, he does occasionally repeat tidbits of doubtful origin, such as the tale about Temple of Set High Priest Michael Aquino's "666" scalp tatoo, which Aquino ridiculed on the Oprah Winfrey show earlier this year. Lyons is especially to be recommended for his chapter on the Vast Satanic Conspiracy, an new version of a centuries-old myth circulated by the Romans about the early Christians, subsequently used against the Jews, and now making the rounds of talk shows and seminars in many parts of the country. "Despite a significant committment of law enforcement personnel and technology, no evidence to back up the allegations has been produced...it is possible that Satanic child abuse is the St. Vitus' dance of the 1980's." I myself find particular significance in Lyons' down-to-earth sociological asessment of Satanism in cultural context. In this regard I can do no better than echo a quote he cites from the historian Jeffrey Burton Russell: "The Devil has no doubt some interest in cultural despair, Satan chic, and demonic rock groups, but he must be more enthusiastic about nuclear armament, gulags, and exploitative imperialism." Oz Tech --- * Origin: IBM_Tech_Fido (Opus 1:322/1) Msg#: 2656 *MAGICKNET* 07/17/88 21:52:00 (Read 0 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: ALL Subj: A WORD IN EDGEWISE Well, I finally got to do something last Thursday that I've been absolutely itching to do. The local talk radio show had a representative of Mike Warnke ministries on to talk about some animal mutilations they found on an altar in an island in eastern Okla. He went on about ritual child abuse and I'd jhust had it. I called the station and talked on the air with him for about 15 min and got to present my case for there being NO evidence for ritualistic child abuse. He couldn't answer my statements at all! I have the tape if anyone wants a copy of it. The whole show runs about 30 min. Just send me a blank tape if you want it. I'm rather proud of it myself. Bb Rowan --- * Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523) Msg#: 2681 *BULLETIN BOARD* 07/20/88 15:39:41 (Read 0 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: MICHELLE HASS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2538 (SATAN IS JUDGED - WHO CARES?) Oh, Michelle, do I agree with you!!1 I received a lovely notice from a Christian sysop of a c net bbs here in OKC today. He said that though he was Christian and I am a Pagan, we're both just people and if Russia and the US got along like he and I, there would be no nuclear bomb threat. He's taken an ENORMOUS amount of flak from other Christians for allowing me to run a Wicca sub board on his board, but all in all, this man has shown me more of Christ than all the other people I have known put together. ( I would have answered you from lRock Island except Brother Matthew has forbidden me to speak to other pagans in this area from his board. )BB Rowan --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 2726 *MUNDANE* 07/17/88 01:23:00 (Read 0 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: FIONN MACCUMHAIL Subj: THAT STRANGE ECHO You don't know the half of it. I was in a lengthy conversation with Mathew tonight and he told me that if I cannot talk to other Pagans on his board. I'm only supposed to talk to Christians on that echo so I can learn the error of my ways!!1 I couldn't believe it. He's cut my access so I can't post there, just read, and he won't raise it again until I agree to follow his rules. Guess I'll just have to play from Wierdbase or go out to Cult Monitor. Strange man if I ever saw one!!! I'll send you a copy of the Irish Bibliography with the check for the book. BB Rowan --- * Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523) Msg#: 2761 *MUNDANE* 07/19/88 09:39:00 (Read 0 Times) From: LIZ HAHN To: ROWAN MOONSTONE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2756 (RE: THAT STRANGE ECHO) Dear Rowan, > I'm only supposed to talk > to Christians on that echo so I can learn the error of > my ways!!1 I couldn't believe it. He's cut my access so > I can't post there, just read, and he won't raise it again > until I agree to follow his rules. Guess I'll just have > to play from Wierdbase or go out to Cult Monitor. Strange > man if I ever saw one!!! I hope you Do hang in there and find a way to keep participating--not so much to bang your head against the wall but for the opportunity to present alternative thinking to those who may be open to it. While I am not eager to post under the conditions that Matthew has laid down, I am encouraging him to expand his rules a little (if not his thinking) for the good of the Echo. If he doesn't, he may find himself shouting at the mirror all alone. Aloha, Liz --- * Origin: Kauai1 - Aloha (Opus 1:161/414) Msg#: 2763 *MUNDANE* 07/18/88 08:32:00 (Read 0 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: RUSS ANDERSON Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2201 (RE: CULT_WATCH ECHO) Well, he's figured out what to do. Seems I was making too good an impression on some folks. I've now been told that I may not converse with other pagans in that area. I may only speak to other Christians and Matthew, and then only so they can instruct me in the errors of my ways and lead me to the true faith. Honest. I have it in print from a chat session I had with Matthew. He dropped my access level to the echo to read only until I agree to comply with his requirements. I think I'm just gonna go out to Cult Monitor and participate from there. I'll be Damned if I'm gonna be muzzled by that turkey when I'm being polite and respectful and only trying to educate folks on the true nature of my beliefs and religion. I'm NOT proselytizing, whatever he may say. I was asked for some informationa and I tolk the guy I had it and he could come byy the house to get it and ZAP, my access got lowered Matthew seems to think that by allowing me to speak freely on his board, he's giving time to the devil, and he says he can't do that. Even claims to be proud of being so narrow minded. SHEESH!! what a strange man. Even the other Fundies think he's overboard. BB Rowan --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4) Msg#: 2802 *MAGICKNET* 07/18/88 14:39:00 (Read 0 Times) From: MARTHA BRUMMETT To: JUDY HARROW Subj: BOOK-BURNING AGAIN Right on! The minority in Boulder (and they are not really that small a minority) are the majority elsewhere. The standard Christian sects are losing ground to these fundamentalist groups, who are not too ethical to use many techniques of commercial "PR" and promotion. It is getting dangerous for many people, not just Pagans: while Unitarians talk about apartheid, Methodists about gay ministers, and Episcopalians about women bishops, the Full Gospel Drive-in Tabernacle buys another television station. These people have enormous influence over the media, and in Texas, where many people on this echo are, the schools there, dominated by a claque of small-minded Puritans and Republicans, are making the major decisions concerning textbooks which attempt to re-write and water down history, and to reduce literature to self-serving pablum. That is what we are all up against. NEVER ANOTHER ALEXANDRIA! --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: CYBER-ZONE: Reality, The BIG Illusion (303) 860-0126 (1:104/61) Msg#: 2811 *MAGICKNET* 07/18/88 08:22:00 (Read 0 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: FARRELL MCGOVERN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2602 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY) I REALLY DO THINk that if folks like thiis woman and Mike Warnke and others who admit to everything from rape and kidnapping to murder, were to be arrested on suspicion and investigated, there would be a LOT less "ex satanists" running around making big $$$ of the gullible public. BB Rowan --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4) Msg#: 2815 *MAGICKNET* 07/19/88 09:25:00 (Read 0 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: JUDY HARROW Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2652 (RE: MOLES) I've seen the paper this Ranger wrote about the Craft groups in Arizona and it's really good. He essentially tells the truth about the Craft, it's just that he didn't ask permission before reporting this to all and sundry. I had word from my networking friend last night that more of this man's stuff is on the way, including guidlines for infiltrating a coven. Also, a lot of stuff on the inner workings of the coven he infiltrated, which is being forwarded to the Elders of said coven. We've heard that this Ranger is being transferred to Kansas. anyone with contacts in Kansas might tell them to be on the alert for moles. BB Rowan --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4) Msg#: 2127 *MAGICKNET* 07/23/88 12:04:00 (Read 0 Times) From: BRAD HICKS To: PHILLIP HANSFORD Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1631 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY NAST) Yep, that's the one I meant. (I was at least 1/4 kidding, anyway.) But your experience matches mine on the accuracy of material published in File 18 - not a few of the phone numbers they gave for MagickNet back in 87-5 were also wrong, some of them obviously so like giving Gene Clayton an 800 phone number. --- Sirius 0.50 * Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523) Msg#: 2131 *MAGICKNET* 07/20/88 09:18:00 (Read 0 Times) From: FARRELL MCGOVERN To: MARTHA BRUMMETT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2090 (RE: BOOK-BURNING AGAIN) MB>Right on! The minority in Boulder (and they are not really that MB>small a minority) are the majority elsewhere. The standard Christian MB>sects are losing ground to these fundamentalist groups, who are MB>not too ethical to use many techniques of commercial "PR" and MB>promotion. And not just public brain washing techniques, they are probably using them on their own "flock", judging by the reactions you get from them, and how quickly they get results. I know one person who was basicly a scum of the universe type, bigoted, etc. Over the space of about 3 months he became a member of a local Pentacostal church...Now one priestess I know was, at one point, a practicing Christian, working in sort of a Pagan/Christian type solo tradition. This person then latched upon her, and told her that she could not be a true Christian until she could speak in tongues. Through his influence...no she did not become a Pentacostal...she toss away Christianity and has become a strait pagan type member of the Craft! MB>It is getting dangerous for many people, not just Pagans: while MB>Unitarians talk about apartheid, Methodists about gay ministers, MB>and Episcopalians about women bishops, the Full Gospel Drive MB>in Tabernacle buys another television station. I really wish there were more Evangelists like Dr. Rev. Scott! I remember being up late one night when the "Pay me or God will take me away" crusade was on, and Scott came up with a really unique idea...He said to watch the show for a few times, and if you didn't like it, don't send any money, but if you were getting something out of it, please do send some money...could it be...Shareware Religion! MB>These people have enormous influence over the media, and in Texas, MB>where many people on this echo are, the schools there, dominated MB>by a claque of small-minded Puritans and Republicans, are making MB>the major decisions concerning textbooks which attempt to re MB>write and water down history, and to reduce literature to self MB>serving pablum. That is what we are all up against. MB> MB> NEVER ANOTHER ALEXANDRIA! I hate to tell you this, but please take a look in some of your textbooks down there. Look for references to the war of 1812. Not many? I can tell you why...it was the first war that the US didn't win. Your textbooks won't tell about how a force of less than 100 men held off a whole army (I think it was the 5th) comming up the Niagara Peninsula to invade Canada, how we burned down your "Pink House" and you burned down our House of Parliment (which was in Toronto at the time.). Then there was the Battle of New Orleans, which took place months after the Peace Treaty was signed. Did you know that the term "Cajin" is a devolved word... "Canadian"? It is from this war that all the Paranoia about Free Trade stems. But if you want to continue this, we should do it in Mundane... ttyl Farrell --- * Origin: Solsbury Hill:Home of ’ristic Computer Consultants (Opus Msg#: 2146 *MAGICKNET* 07/23/88 08:28:00 (Read 0 Times) From: MARTHA BRUMMETT To: ROWAN MOONSTONE Subj: RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY I hope I can get some good thoughts to you as you testify as an expert witness. This type of case is very clouded with emotion of all kinds, and is becoming more and more so. But I wonder about the necessity of going through all that--is the money so important to this young woman that she would even acknowledge who the biological father of the child is. I honestly think that such disclosure rivals love of money for being the root of all evil. --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: The 8th Sea (1:104/610) Msg#: 2148 *MAGICKNET* 07/22/88 18:15:00 (Read 0 Times) From: OZ TECH To: DANIEL SEGARD Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1993 (RE: BOOK REVIEW: LYONS' SATAN WANTS YOU) Well, perhaps it's very boring in Idaho. I noticed that too ("student of Satanism"). It's not clear to me if a student of Satanism would be more or less creditable on Satanism, than a student of dentistry would be on dentistry. But I don't think the book "defends" Satanism. Did I say that? Oz Tech --- * Origin: IBM_Tech_Fido (Opus 1:322/1) Msg#: 2243 *MAGICKNET* 07/26/88 08:40:00 (Read 0 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: MICHELLE HASS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2191 (RE: BOOK-BURNING AGAIN) Had a line on a new "must read" book last night from my fellow WLPA pit bull. :"Cults that Kill" by Larry Kahaner, Warner Books, 1988, $17.95 hardback. She read the first 2 chapters and called screaming at me. Seems they were already into dear Mr. McCarthy by then. I'm gonna hit up interlibrary loan for a copy and if it's worth it, I'll fork over the $$ come payday to put it in the library. She says it's pretty bslanced all in all. They interview Ken Lanning from the FBI and Dale Griffis from Tiffin, Ohio and those guys are pretty cool about this "Satanic conspiracy" thing. They don't think it exists. We'll see. BB Rowan --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4) Msg#: 2246 *MAGICKNET* 07/26/88 08:53:00 (Read 0 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: MARTHA BRUMMETT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2243 (RE: BOOK-BURNING AGAIN) I can't see that they're losing much credibility. Hve you been following the brou ha ha about the fils"The ALast Temptation of Christ"? They were able to shut down the switchboard at Universal studios with their phone calls, and now they're trying to buy the film and burn all the copies. Somehow, I can't see this as them losing ground. BB Rowan --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4) Msg#: 2171 *MAGICKNET* 07/24/88 09:35:00 (Read 0 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: AMMOND SHADOWCRAFT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2083 (RE: THE NEW MCCARTHYISM) Ammond, PLEASE be careful. If I were you, I'd tape the whole thing and possibly have photos. You never know what he might accuse you of in a direct confrontation. I frankly wouldn't trust this man around a glass corner. He might just relish the opportunity to cre "harrassment" or "threats, " or even "assault". Proceed with EXTREME caution. BB Rowan --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4) Msg#: 2347 *MAGICKNET* 07/25/88 20:22:00 (Read 0 Times) From: RAVEN DRAGONRUNE To: MARIBETH DREHER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2346 (RE: THE NEW MCCARTHYISM) Opinion: do the show, but call it a "New Age" show...That catches more favorable reactions and fewer bad ones.....=WE= know that "witch" is not a bad word, but the effort to educate the ignorant is hindered by the fact that they live in a "tunnel reality" which often dictates that they ignore =ANYTHING= that contradicts what their church has taught, before even listening to us. They literally CANNOT allow themselves to give us a fair hearing----- so my own cautious opinion, the way reality seems from my viewpoint, is that the New Age label is safest..... ***RAVEN*** --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 2356 *MAGICKNET* 07/28/88 09:10:00 (Read 1 Times) From: JUDY HARROW To: ZHAHAI STEWART Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2324 (RE: BOOK SACRIFICE) I dunno, Z, this is a very hard one for me to call. My gut feeling seems to be opposite of that of whoever I'm discussing it with most recently. There's something primally horrible about book-burning -- something that goes back to childhood Jewish history lessons that probably alluded to hand-copied scrolls. I think there ought to be some way to protect books and cultural artifacts from destruction just as I would hold Santeros responsible for the public sanitation aspects of their practices. I listen in to the Fundie radio station occasionally, and to this day you will catch reports from missionaries *bragging* about how they had induced some native village to destroy the cultural heritage of centuries. Usually not books, but sculpture and the like, but still the physical anchors of their culture. This is the culmination of acculturation, similar to Alexandria, making it very much harder for later generations to reconstruct the Old Ways if they want to. Don't *we* know how terribly hard that is. In other posts, you've talked about how the destruction of a piece of land - somebody's private property - impoverishes the community and the planet. Destruction of information whether encoded in writing or in sculpture and other symbols feels to me like calling a community's heritage "property" and I listen in to the Fundie radio station occasionally, and to this day you will catch reports from missionaries *bragging* about how they had induced some native village to destroy the cultural heritage of centuries. Usually not books, but sculpture and the like, but still the physical anchors of their culture. This is the culmination of acculturation, similar to Alexandria, making it very much harder for later generations to reconstruct the Old Ways if they want to. Don't *we* know how terribly hard that is. In other posts, you've talked about how the destruction of a piece of land - somebody's private property - impoverishes the community and the planet. Destruction of information whether encoded in writing or in sculpture and other symbols feels to me like calling a community's heritage "property" and -More- destroying it. I also think it's wrong because I think all baneful magic is wrong, but that's a personal belief of mine that I do not advocate making enforceable. warmly / Juyd --- * Origin: OPUS DEII = BaphoNet-by-the-Sea (718) 499-9277 (Opus 1:107/293) Msg#: 2237 *MAGICKNET* 07/24/88 09:22:00 (Read 1 Times) From: HOWARD GERBER To: TIM MARONEY Subj: RE: BLOOD ON THE WIRE TM> Margolis, an attorney, hopes the report will lead to TM> consideration of a law banning animal killing and torture as part TM> of a religious ceremony. It looks like the the authorities are forgetting that animal scarifice was the basis of the pre-Christian Jewish religion and the major form of worship for most other early religions. --- ConfMail V3.31 * Origin: Two Wheelers = Wondrous Opus of Cycling 713-682-6508 (1:106/88) Msg#: 2326 *MAGICKNET* 07/26/88 09:03:00 (Read 2 Times) From: ZHAHAI STEWART To: PHILLIP HANSFORD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2242 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY) PH>I heard from some guys in the Department of Defense PH>asking for leads on Satanic Organizations, as a result of PH>the mention (I got the letter in spite of the wrong box number.). Interesting. Did they explain why the DOD would be interested? Off hand it does not seem like their cup of tea (or mandate) to be investigating domestic religions or even alleged criminal activities; or were they looking for some new weapons? --- * Origin: Adelante - 300 meters above Boulder, CO (Opus 1:104/93) Msg#: 2376 *MAGICKNET* 08/01/88 11:10:45 (Read 1 Times) From: PHILLIP HANSFORD To: ZHAHAI STEWART Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2326 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY) Re. the guys at the Dept. of Defense who wrote to me because my name was mentioned in File 18, no, it was never clear whether they were inquireing on behalf of the Dept. of Defense, or on their own. However, they did mention that they worked for the DOD. I never wrote back...//Phil// --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 2321 *MAGICKNET* 07/26/88 10:23:00 (Read 1 Times) From: DANIEL SEGARD To: OZ TECH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2148 (RE: BOOK REVIEW: LYONS' SATAN WANTS YOU) It is not Lyon's "credibility" or "knowledge" of Satanism that is likely to get questioned. It would be more along the lines of his "bias" on the subject. They would look upon his information in about the same light that most of us would look upon a book written by the head of the CIA in. Would you expect to see the head of the CIA give an accurate portrayal of CIA involvment in Central America? (Probably not.) So, in the same way I would suspect that most of those who are paranoid about "Satanists murdering innocent children" are going to view anything that Lyons says about it with skepticism. Just as with the CIA, people are going to question how much Lyons is actually covering up what he knows about "what is REALLY going on". Idaho probably is a boring place in some respects. Although with the amount of Klan and Identity activity going on up there, I'm not sure how "boring" it could really be. I've heard that many of the Identity people have somewhat of a backhanded relationship with "Satanic religious practice". That could just be rumour though. Question EVERYBODY's motives. --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: The 8th Sea (1:104/610) Msg#: 2329 *MAGICKNET* 07/25/88 23:16:00 (Read 2 Times) From: SCOTT LADD To: ROWAN MOONSTONE (Rcvd) Subj: RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY NASTI I tend to agree with your opinion about Mike Warnke and company -- I still can't figure out how they get away with admitting to the commision of major crimes without being investigated. BTW, a friend of mine went to a Warnke concert a year or so ago. Sitting in the audience in front of my friend was a bald man and a woman, both of whom sported unusual tatoos (spiderwebs on the fingers, for example). When the concert was over, both individuals saluted Warnke with the "Satanic two-finger salute". You don't suppose Mike is out there making people laugh about Satanism as a smokescreen... Or maybe he's just making a tidy profit... --- ConfMail V3.3 * Origin: Duck Point -- Quacking up in Denver, Colorado (1:104/45.2) Msg#: 2331 *MAGICKNET* 07/25/88 23:28:00 (Read 2 Times) From: SCOTT LADD To: PHILLIP HANSFORD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2127 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY NAST) Could you send me a copy of the letter you received, or at least illuminate me as to its contents? I find it fascinating that the Dept. of Defense is interested in Satanic groups... Send it to: P.O. Box 61425, Denver, CO 80206, or post a message here. Thank you in advance! --- ConfMail V3.3 * Origin: Duck Point -- Quacking up in Denver, Colorado (1:104/45.2) Msg#: 2377 *MAGICKNET* 08/01/88 11:15:39 (Read 1 Times) From: PHILLIP HANSFORD To: SCOTT LADD Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2331 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY NAST) As I recall the letter asked me for information on networking used by the occult community (especially regards bbs's). They also especially wanted names of aversive occult groups and their leaders. The letter is around here somewhere (under some papers), but that is the jist of it...//Phil// --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 2394 *MAGICKNET* 07/28/88 20:14:00 (Read 1 Times) From: SHARON CROKE To: ROWAN MOONSTONE Subj: "UNFIT" MOTHER CASE > Wish me luck. > I think I'm > gonna need it. BB Rowan Best of luck to you, Rowan, and thanks for being willing to defend the Craft in such a public manner. Luckily for the mother involved in this case, there is ample precedent for denying the father's petition in cases of religious incompatibility. I don't know of any regarding Pagan vs Fundy specifically. Do you know this woman personally? With so many varieties of paganism around the other side will of course attempt to paint her in the light of the worst of them, and you being the voice of reason for YOUR version of the Craft wouldn't help her if she was associated with the more sensationalized versions. Unluckily for the mother, such cases have almost always resulted in the father being awarded the right to expose the child to his beliefs and attempt his version of religious education. The poor kid is really going to be caught in the middle if Daddy insists Mommy is a Satanist you're going to hell if you continue to live with her, etc. (I used to work for a lawyer/adoption agency and got "exposed" to this. Ugh) Please keep us updated on this case! What paper will it be reported in (if any, although depending upon the local one's bent, it could be all over the media)? --- Opus 1.03b, NoOrigin 3.2, & --- ConfMail V3.31 * Origin: TIDMADT 703-370-7054: Right near the Pentagon... hmmm...! Msg#: 2423 *MAGICKNET* 07/28/88 15:26:00 (Read 1 Times) From: ZHAHAI STEWART To: ROWAN MOONSTONE Subj: FUNDAMENTALISTS LOSING GROUND? Rowan, I think they are losing ground; however any movement that has millions of people and can raise hundreds of millions of dollars is significant even while receding; nobody said they weren't dangerous. My comments were just relating to the idea that their power was growing every day, rather than the idea that they have power. B*B ~z~ --- * Origin: Adelante - 300 meters above Boulder, CO (Opus 1:104/93) Msg#: 2426 *MAGICKNET* 07/28/88 18:45:00 (Read 1 Times) From: SCOTT LADD To: DANIEL SEGARD Subj: AKRON I suspect there is something more to what is going on in Akron, CO, than meets the eye. Today, the DA for Akron dropped all charges and ended his investigations, claiming that poor work by social workers and the interference of the Denver Post made it impossible for him to uncover the truth. For those who are unfamiliar with the incidents in Akron: seven children claim to have been molested while at a day-care center. Some of the children described being sodomized by adults in "hooded robes", and being forced to participate in "rituals". One boy even described the decapitation-sacrifice of another child (no body has ever been recovered, and no children in Akron are missing). According to the DA, a social worker with "strong Christian convictions" may have implanted the stories of rituals, robes, and murder in the children's minds. For instance, the boy who told of the murder did so only after six weeks of therapy. It could be the social worker "convinced" the child of the incident; it is also possible that therapy "unlocked" the childs memory of a traumatic event. There have been complaints by police and citizens of Akron that the DA has been slow and clumsy in his investigation. Even the state government was looking into him at one point. Is he incompetent -- or is he covering something up? As Daniel says: "Questions EVERYONE's Motives" --- ConfMail V3.3 * Origin: Duck Point -- Quacking up in Denver, Colorado (1:104/45.2) Msg#: 2510 *MAGICKNET* 07/29/88 19:16:00 (Read 1 Times) From: DANIEL SEGARD To: SCOTT LADD Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2426 (RE: AKRON) Well, maybe the case did get so contaminated that it was impossible to bring the evidence up for a "fair trial". Or perhaps we have a coverup going on. All of the so-called "experts" on Satanism make claims that community leaders are involved and/or paid-off to keep things quiet. But that is probably rampant paranoia and such ideas could probably be dismissed out of hand. I'm sure that the officials in Akron have far more important things to investigate than supposed Satanic murders. Why, just last month I heard that a case in Akron was getting set to go to the Grand Jury. It seems that workers in the County Clerk's Office were borrowing change from petty cash to pay for coffee and rolls. They were paying it back by close of business, but that isn't good enough for Akron. The employees involved will have to face the Grand Jury for their heinous crimes against the County. See? Isn't that far more important that children being murdered by supposed Satanists? --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: CYBER-ZONE: Reality, The BIG Illusion (303) 860-0126 (1:104/61) Msg#: 2614 *MAGICKNET* 07/31/88 10:05:00 (Read 1 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: DANIEL SEGARD Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2510 (RE: AKRON) But Daniel, this only goes to reinforce the idea that Arthur Lyons espouses in his book that these "Satanic Child Abuse" cases are so much Urban Legend. There is NO PROOF anywhere... BB Rowan P>S> Personally, I think if there is actual evidence of physical abuse or sexual abuse on the child's body that someone should investigate the home environment. Most sexually abused kids are victimized by someone they know and trust, like family or close friends. There have been a lot of cases in this area where children were molested by ministers at church. --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4) Msg#: 2444 *MAGICKNET* 07/29/88 10:24:00 (Read 2 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: TONY IANNOTTI Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2439 (RE: MEDIA ALERT!!) Lyons and Kahaner were both on Larry King Live on Wed. night this week. I taped the whole thing and I thing it was pretty good. Kahaner needs to make contact with some reputable folks from Santeris. maybe the Santero Priest from the Hileyah Fla church should contact him. Bb Rowan --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4) Msg#: 2431 *MAGICKNET* 07/27/88 23:02:00 (Read 1 Times) From: FARRELL MCGOVERN To: ZHAHAI STEWART Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1933 (RE: RESTRICTED ACCESS) ZS> ZS> FM> Simply ask them to say the Lord's Prayer backwards. If ZS> FM>they ask you "are you feeling O.K.? Or have you been smoking ZS> FM>some of those funny cigarettes?" or something along those lines, ZS> FM>you have a legit pagan type. If they run fleeing from you, THAT is ZS> FM>the Christian mole. ZS> ZS>And if they regard this is nothing special and do it, you have ZS>either a real Gothic or a mole under Deep Cover (who has been ZS>just waiting to be asked, and will now expect to be let in on ZS>the real dirt about paganism). I guess we will have to include this in the Pagan Counter-Intellegence guide, along with chapters on Frontal Labodamies and Christian Symbols ("Whadda mean the chapter only has 523 crosses?). B-) ttyl Farrell --- * Origin: Solsbury Hill:Home of ’ristic Computer Consultants (Opus Msg#: 2441 *MAGICKNET* 07/29/88 09:43:00 (Read 1 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: SCOTT LADD Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2329 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY NASTI) Scott, I haven't heard from you in a LONG time. I don't think Warnke is fronting for the Satanists, but I do think he's power tripping something awful. the funny folks in the audience were probably just trying to get a rise out of him. Bb Rowan --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4) Msg#: 2542 *MAGICKNET* 07/30/88 09:14:00 (Read 1 Times) From: MERLIN To: SCOTT LADD Subj: (R)AKRON If you have a reference, could I get you to send a photocopy or disk file? AM *very* curious about such incidents. We've had a few in Texas and it often (very often) turns out when you cut the junque and get "just the facts" that not much happened... not to impose but if it's not a problem would appreciate it (My pob is 3456, Corpus Christi 78463-3456). Merlin --- RBBSMAIL 16.1A.6 * Origin: Mailroom -MagickNet for S Tx- 512-850-9102 (RBBS-PC 1:160/50) Msg#: 2544 *MAGICKNET* 07/30/88 13:47:00 (Read 1 Times) From: MR. SYNTAX To: SHARON CROKE Subj: (R)"UNFIT" MOTHER CASE Even if the woman involved does win the case, I'd lay even odds that that won't be the end of it... Given the large number of cases of children being kidnapped by parents convinced that they're doing the best thing for the child. With a fundamentalist seeing their child in custody of a pagan... mr. s --- RBBSMAIL 16.1A.6 * Origin: Mailroom -MagickNet for S Tx- 512-850-9102 (RBBS-PC 1:160/50) Msg#: 2626 *MAGICKNET* 08/00/88 09:48:00 (Read 1 Times) From: MICHAEL BARNETT To: KEVIN SCOTT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2343 (RE: THE WHOLE TRUTH...REALLY!) > I was watching the "700 Club" (please, don't ask) last > night at about 11:30 and I learned that a) I'm am a satan > worshipper, b) I am possessed by aforementioned Satan > and c)that everything I've done (in a magickal sense) > for the last three years has put me in direct contact with > demonic forces. > The host of the show (Pat something) went to great > length to explain how TM mantras were prayers to lucifer, Do any of you guys agree with me that it is time for some slander and libel lawsuits? I am thoroughly sick of being accused of things I have never done and having my name "dragged in the mud". I wonder if WE could get away with the kind of mudslinging that they use? It is certain that they will continue to get away with it if we don't fight them where it hurts, hitting their pocket books in court! Isn't this what the Pagan Anti-Defamation League is about? If they will take on these slanderers, I will happily donate $50.00 to the case. Michael (becoming more radical) Barnett --- * Origin: Liberty BBS (Opus 1:373/5) Msg#: 2665 *MAGICKNET* 08/00/88 21:06:00 (Read 1 Times) From: BRAD HICKS To: ZHAHAI STEWART Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2553 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY NAST) ZS> Interesting. Did they explain why the DOD would be ZS> interested? If my experience with the Defense Investigative Agency is at all representative, they have doubtless come to the conclusion that being involved in Satanism makes you vulnerable to blackmail and therefore a poor security risk - the argument they use to keep Gays out of top-secret posts. Imagine the scenario: you're a witch who's still in the broom closet, and someone finds out and threatens to tell your employer, the media, and your parents if you don't obtain such-and-such documents for them. As many oaths of secrecy as some trads have, it doesn't seem =entirely= beyond the realm of belief that a witch in that circumstance would sell out his or her country. Not even vaguely likely, but with their track record, the DIA can't afford to overlook any possibility. (At least, that's how they look at it.) --- Sirius 0.50 * Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523) Msg#: 2697 *MUNDANE* 08/00/88 09:35:00 (Read 1 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: MERLIN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2563 (RE: FILE 18?) File 18 is a publication put out by one Detective Larry Jones of Boise Idaho for "police and other quilified persons". It is a newsletter that supposedly deals with "occult crime". HOwever, the whole thing is put out from a Fundie perspective and poorly researched to say the least. Brad has 3 or 4 issues in the files section on Wierdbase if you're interested in seeing this rag. I hope you have a strong stomach. BB Rowan --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4) Msg#: 2741 *MAGICKNET* 08/00/88 11:01:00 (Read 1 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: BRAD HICKS Subj: MORNING GLORY AND THE PET SATANIS I couldn't agree more with your reaction to the CAW statement. I don't think it's at ALL wise for us to even admit that the crime exists. Ritual child abuse had NEVEr been proven to exist and if we go around expressing our sympathies with the "victims" of such, were lending credence to the urban legend. I've researched it a lot and I just can't substantiate it. Also, sounds like there are great deal of inconsistencies in the stories. I sure hope MG doesn't show up with this lady at Dragonfest. I'm afraid I wouldn't be too easy on her, and I just might get myself lynched But if they want to prove it to me, they're gonna have to come up with names, dates, places, and a lot more. I'm behind you 110% BRad!! BB Rowan --- * Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523) Msg#: 2745 *MAGICKNET* 08/00/88 08:27:00 (Read 1 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: MICHAEL BARNETT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2626 (RE: THE WHOLE TRUTH...REALLY!) The problem with slander suits is that the offending party has to NAME a particular individual or group, such as Maury Terry did with the OTO in "Ultimate Evil". Just going on TV and saying "Witches are Satanists" isn't good enough. They have to go on and say"Michael Barnett is a Satanist" or "Coven ------ is a Satanic group". THEN and ONLY then can they be sued. At this point the best we can do is to as Brad says "fight bad information with better information". On an up note, the case in Canada where a former coven member turned Fundie and accused his former HP of trying to sacrifice him was finally decided. The Witches won!!! The Fundy TV show and the former covener have to pay $10000+ court costs. sometimes the good guys DO win!!! BB Rowan --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4) Msg#: 2746 *MAGICKNET* 08/00/88 08:37:00 (Read 1 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: DAVID RICE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2441 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY NASTI) One way we can help fight "satanic crime" is to try to get these yoyos to stop giving psychopaths blueprints to work from!!1 I'm wondering how long it will be before some nut gets ahold of the "ritualistic child" abuse stories and decides to try it. Brrr.... what a nasty thought. We can work with the police when they come in contact with things they don't understand that we might. We can talk to them about rumors of funny goings on that we hear. Surely most of us are sensible enough to know fact from braggihg??? And we can de bunk the popular myyths. Grisly child murders linked to the "occult" might sell newspapers, but they are not necessarily accurate or enlightening, and they can be dangerous. BB Rowan --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: On The Edge BBS - OKC's only source for MAGICKNET (1:147/4) Msg#: 2755 *MUNDANE* 08/00/88 10:35:00 (Read 1 Times) From: DAVID RICE To: MERLIN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2697 (RE: FILE 18?) You've probably already got an answer to your question "What is File 18?" It appears to be a news letter published by a few Fundamentalist Christians in an obscure Police Department. It's basic function is to use propaganda to link crime to "Witches and other Satanist, occult practioners, heavy metal rock music, and other non-conformers." Though it is extreamly biased, it appears to be a genuine newsletter to combat "Occult related crime." It is distributed to roughly 100 subscribers as of last week's issue. It makes no distinction between mentally disturbed youngsters who "like" Ozzy Ozborn and "Satan worshipers." It's main target is us. I think the editor of File 18 is honestly intent on curbing crime, but she / he is grossly ignorant of what she / he is talking about. --- * Origin: Astro-Net 714 662-2294 Not For Pagans Only! (Opus 1:103/503) Msg#: 2793 *BULLETIN BOARD* 07/30/88 23:07:00 (Read 0 Times) From: KEN ARBUCKLE To: ROWAN MOONSTONE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1975 (RE: WELCOME) Dear Rowan, Your comments to Phil re "warlocks" may be true for you Wiccans, but there are many other sects of witchcraft . Not all would avoid the term "warlock". ken --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: The Family - Pittsburgh Harvester (412) 344-1315 (7000/12) Msg#: 2798 *BULLETIN BOARD* 08/00/88 14:22:00 (Read 0 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: KEN ARBUCKLE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2793 (RE: WELCOME) What other "sects of witchcraft are you talking about? Bb Rowan --- ConfMail V3.31 * Origin: ROCK ISLAND (on) LINE (405)391-9488 Matthew Dunham (1:147/3) From: MICHELLE HASS To: KEN ARBUCKLE Subj: RE: WELCOME Public Message 01: Ok, so tell me straight...were you a Wiccan or were you a "Gothic", or (9928) 02: "satanist"? MK-H (editor's note...he STILL hasn't said what Trad he's from!!! MK-H) Msg#: 2794 *BULLETIN BOARD* 07/31/88 14:52:00 (Read 0 Times) From: BRIAN JAZUDEK To: PHILLIP HANSFORD Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1063 (RE: SATANISM, ET AL) Good point Phillip Satanist do no kill or sacrifice animals or people for that matter. Brian --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: Maltese Alien * Carnegie, PA * (412) 279-7011 * FidoNet (1:129/41) Msg#: 2795 *BULLETIN BOARD* 07/29/88 13:12:00 (Read 0 Times) From: DR. DEATH To: ALL Subj: OUIJA BOARDS Well does anyone out there know the truth about these mysterious boards. Is it that these boards really contact different leves of demons(holy/evil). Or is it just are innerselfs (selfconchus) or maybe just nervs. Or it coulkd also be a tap into satan well first does anyone know where they ariginated? Some people say salem but i dont belive it,i would gues sometime in amceint china or rome. What about the story never burn a ouija or youll die within the next year freaky ah. Tse things are really weird any info about them tell me im interested thanks...... --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: The Trading Post - Detroit (313)-882-7104 (120/10) 01: Here's an update on the "Last Temptation of Christ" front: The Rev. (9931) 02: Hymers/Fundamentalist Tabernacle people showed up to do their protest (9861) 03: yesterday, and were greeted with two things...Jewish Defense League boys (9788) 04: forming a human chain around the Wilshire Boulevard Temple, and the news (9715) 05: that, no, Lew Wasserman is NOT a member of that temple. They turned tail (9641) 06: and left. Onward Christian soldiers, right...? MK-H Msg#: 2819 *MAGICKNET* 08/00/88 09:41:00 (Read 0 Times) From: FARRELL MCGOVERN To: ROWAN MOONSTONE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2675 (RE: THE NEW MCCARTHYISM) RM>I'm willing to keep the archives. I've already got quite a number RM>of videotapes and audio tapes as well as my voluminous clippings. RM>I'll glady furnish anyonw with some VHS cassettes in return for RM>copies of these tapes so we ALL can have them when they are needed. RM>I LIKE archiving. I'm turning into an information junkie, and RM>I find I'm quite good at it. BB Rowan One day, we will have an integrated media, such that you will be able to type "Find all references to Witches considered as Satanists" and it will find everything in text...and video! It will be a long time comming, but it may be sooner than you think. My fav saying about the computer industry is that six months is a generation! And a generation is anything that brings about a 10% reduction in price, or a 10% increase in information processing. For example, in 6 months we have gone from a 16 MHz 386 CPU to a 25 MHz 386 CPU. ttyl Farrell --- Opus 1.03b <> NoOrigin 3.1 --- ConfMail V3.31 * Origin: ’ristic Computer Consultants FNORD (1:163/523) 08/00/88 09:35:00 (Read 0 Times) From: MICHAEL BARNETT To: ISIS MOONSHADOW Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2834 (RE: THE WHOLE TRUTH...REALLY!) In my case, in a local controversy discussion echo, a fundy kept telling me that all "new agers" were Satanic and that since I was a "new ager" (shudder) I was a Satanist whether I knew it or not! After a long harangue and a threat of legal action I got a very sincere-sounding apology and a retraction. I would like to think that the legal action threat was NOT the turning point, but I had explained three times previously my position on Satanists (I ain't one, cuz I don't believe he exists!), and was unable to budge her position until direct threat of libel and slander action was mentioned. Blessed Be, Michael --- * Origin: Gateway BBS - Huntsville, Al. (Opus 1:373/2) Msg#: 2876 *MAGICKNET* 08/00/88 11:10:00 (Read 0 Times) From: ZHAHAI STEWART To: ROWAN MOONSTONE Subj: RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY N RM>the funny folks in the audience were RM>probably just trying to get a rise out of him. Bb Rowan Seems like the funny tattoos on their hands would have been a long way to carry a joke; presumably they were themselves involved in something, even if their salute to Warnke was sardonic? B*B ~z~ --- * Origin: Adelante - 300 meters above Boulder, CO (Opus 1:104/93) (this message is part of a thread about the possibility of Pagans purchasing land for a cemetary somewhere in Colorado. This is included because of the obvious refs to anti-Pagan Christian Hysteric activities, and the possibility of more) Msg#: 2885 *MAGICKNET* 08/00/88 14:22:00 (Read 0 Times) From: ZHAHAI STEWART To: BLACKWOLF Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2879 (RE: BURIAL CUSTOMS) B>There is no way that a project like this could B>be kept secret and i'm sure that it would jump to the top of B>the fundies 'hit lists' quite quickly. Yeah, that's what I had in mind regarding defacement; one could expect wild stories about the type of satanic rituals held there to circulate among certain groups; there well might be a move to involve local government in closing down such a place. I think all of this could be overcome, and that it is worth the effort - but one has to be aware of the potential hassles and think about how to handle them. If there were no tombstones, there would be less to deface. A bush or tree could be hurt, but there is less incentive and reward. Any buildings would have to be sturdy (true of regular cemetaries, too, tho). Actually, it might not be any worse than an isolated conventional cemetary. There well may be no organized satanic conspiracy, but apparently a number of gravesites DO get dug up by somebody! It really happens and is not all that rare; one of the old mountain cemetaries around here, where there is no chance of valuables or anything, got vandelized and dug up a while back. B*B ~z~ --- * Origin: Adelante - 300 meters above Boulder, CO (Opus 1:104/93) Msg#: 2890 *MAGICKNET* 08/00/88 23:47:00 (Read 0 Times) From: ZHAHAI STEWART To: BRAD HICKS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2821 (RE: SATANISM, AND OTHER ICKY NAST) BH> ZS> Interesting. Did they explain why the DOD would be BH> ZS> interested? BH> BH>If my experience with the Defense Investigative Agency is at BH>all representative, they have doubtless come to the conclusion BH>that being involved in Satanism makes you vulnerable to blackmail He didn't say which agency of the DOD was involved (at least in any of the message which have reached here so far) so this may be jumping to conclusions (DIA is only one small piece of DOD). Also, even if it were the DIA, just why would they be investigating what they think to be experts on Satanism in general? If they are doing a background on specific individuals, this makes no sense. I guess they could be gathering files of all known and reputed satanists, with the intention of cross matching them against all DOD personnell with security clearances, but this is also pretty obnoxious and dangerous if so. Do they visit the known experts on gay culture, under this mandate? This seems to either not wash, or to be dangerous, or both. But we don't even know which agency yet, so it's not worth pursuing much further on this track. I do understand all you said about using such activities as bars to security clearances (as with gays) on grounds of possible blackmail, so if they were investigating a particular person whom they had reason to suspect of satanic affiliation, and were focussing on people who might know more about that specific person in this regard it would all make lots of sense, from their professed purposes. But to contact someone blind, from a File 18 lead, seems too far afield for this explanation. B*B ~z~ * Origin: Adelante - 300 meters above Boulder, CO (Opus 1:104/93) ---

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