The following is a post from alt.society.civil-liberties One should also keep in mind that

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The following is a post from alt.society.civil-liberties One should also keep in mind that the reason that the feds went after Koresh to begin with was in an effort to establish the legal precident that knowledge plus capability equaled proof of intent. The feds wanted to establish their rather iffy precident, (which would have given thought crimes a legal existance) without much chance of a real legal challenge. They did that by picking on somebody who was unlikely to get any help from the usual collection of bleeding hearts such as the ACLU. As an example of how this works, next time you go to a coffee shop, ask the waitress how the taxes on her tips are figured. The IRS holds anyone who recieves tips, responsible for 8 percent of gross reciepts. How they achieved that goal is worth a little consideration. What the IRS did when they wanted to establish the precidents which permit tips to be taxed, was to go after the housekeeping staff at the Mustang Bridge Ranch Brothel, about 8 miles east of here. The housekeepers were handed an administrative judgement for tax evasion and the housekeepers lost in court because nobody wanted to stand up for the rights of a bunch of people who made a living changing sheets in a whorehouse. Once the precident was established, it was extended to everyone. Given the fact that most gaming employees here depend on tips for a large part of their incomes, it's a hot topic over here. That's what the feds wanted to do with Koresh. Notice that no illegal weapons were ever found in the wreckage of his compound. Also, if you can find anyone who still has a tape of the network coverage of the original raid, strip off the sound track and listen to it. I ran the track through my mixing board and what I found was that there was no automatic weapons fire during the raid. None at all. The weapons that BATF claimed that Koresh had, have an average cyclic rate of fire of around 600 rounds per minute. At no time in the soundtrack that I did my analysis on, did I find a rate of fire exceeding around 35 rounds per minute. The pitch of the firing, and the rate of fire was consistant with a .22 semiautomatic rifle being fired as fast as the trigger could be pulled. Undiciplined fire, most certainly. Ineffective wastage of ammunition, definitely. Fire from Class-3 weapons as defined by the National Firearms Act of 1934, most certainly not. I also wonder if it isn't true that the ATF agents who were killed didn't fall to friendly fire. In the network footage, one sees a lot of agents firing from ranges of around 300 meters with pistols, (which in the hands of an expert are accurate to around 40 meters) who were firing an undefined targets. I was always taught that you had to have a defined target that had to be armed and presenting a real threat to me or to innocent parties before I fired. (US Army Riot Control and Civil Disturbance Course, which I took back in 77.) From what I saw in the Network footage, that doesn't seem to reflect BATF operational policy however. GS Search and arrest warrants were sealed, and when government agents settled down for what was to be a seven-week siege, the press was allowed to get no closer than two miles from the Branch Davidian compound. What was it Heinlein once said, something about "Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny." GSFLAME THROWER IDENTIFIED "It was an M67A1 tank manufactured by Chrysler," she said. This tank, equipped with a flamethrower, is no longer in service and, according to Thompson, had to be taken from "the graveyard" for the Waco assignment. The clear implication is that the government deliberately set fire to the Branch Davidian compound, killing some 17 children and 69 adults. Sounds about right. An M-67A1 is essentially an M-48A3 MOD B with the ammo storage replaced by a pressurized fuel system and the main gun replaced by a flamethrower. It wasn't terribly popular among armor crewmen because one hit and the crew was likely to wind up as crispy critters. Most of those produced were for the Marines and all were out of service by the time that I enlisted back in 76. Most of the vehicles were either converted back to M-48A3 configuration or employed as hard targets for gunnery training. GS I asked how she found out about the M67A1, a little-know weapon to which even Jane's Armour and Artillery gives only brief mention. "The driver who drove it from Fort Hood called me," she said. That I can believe. Ft. Hood has extensive gunnery ranges and so the presence of old junk like the M-67A1 isn't much of a surprize. I've seen the most amazing junk in boneyards and on gunnery ranges. (I wish that I owned a lot of it, and some the stuff that winds up being a sitting duck really makes you want to cry. (On the gunnery ranges at Indian Springs AFB, there used to be a really pretty RF-84F Thunderflash recon plane, a really rare bird. Looking at the machinegun bullet holes in it really hurt. I've also seen M4A3 76 W/HVSS, (aka the M4A3E8 Sherman) and M3 Grant tanks driven out onto the impact area of a number of ranges where they were literally shot to pieces.) Putting the flametrower in that tank back into service must have been a lot of work since the parts needed to overhaul it simply don't exist in the supply system anymore. If it had been me doing that lousy job, I think that I would have gone to outside industrial supply houses and built a new flamethrower and mounted it on a more modern vehicle. GS Already, The Washington Post reports, the Waco embarrassment has prompted a major reshuffle at the ATF. Some officials may be forced to retire, the Post says, and the chief of the intelligence division could be denied "future promotions." The only thing that these people are forebidden is failure, and if they are punished at all it will be for having not established the precident that they were sent out to establish and for having embarassed their masters in front of the media. The murder of 80 men, women and children is totally meaningless to them in this regard. Such punishments seem hardly proportionate. No, but then one must understand that respect for the law and a sense of justice is totally lacking in the people who are responsible for this mass murder. GS How is it that federal agents responsible for the death of more than 80 men, women and children may be permitted to retire or even to keep their present jobs? That is easy enough to understand. As long as you have a government that elevates the rule of expediency and it's own ideological and institutional agenda above the rights of individual citizens and it's own basic laws, then incidents like this will happen. Activist governments bent on social engineering, tend to impose laws which don't enjoy a moral consensus among those who will be governed by them. For any law to work, it must pretty much be self enforcing. The real test of any law is that if someone is wrongly accused of violating the law, the person accused still believes that the violation of that particualar law is deserving of punishment, even if he himself is innocent. When that essential condition isn't satisfied, then the government has the choice of either passively sitting back and watching people indulge in a whosale refusal to obey the government's demands, or it can engage in state terrorism against the civil populace so that they will be frightened into passive acquiesence to what can only be described as a tyranny. Now, any government which is determined to be a tyranny, must have a group of henchmen who are ready, willing and able to do the dirty work of the police state. They can't be relied upon to commit the outrages that are necessary to cultivate terror in a civilian population if they must look over their shoulders and worry about eventual prosecution for their "war crimes". The result is that secret policemen, and their associated "Einsatsgruppen", (the guys in the black ninja suits at Waco, or in the Weaver case readily come to mind) must by the very nature of their work be above the law. In view of the above, I'm truly amazed that Clinton or the Himmler of his regime, Janet Reno, (she is far too flamboyant to be a Beria even if she doesn't trick herself out in weird uniforms, (YET!)) didn't pin medals on all of the participants of the Einsatsgruppen Action in Waco. Or perhaps they have and didn't tell anyone...... While mulling that one over, you might also want to consider Steven Higgins (BATF Director) testimony before Congress where he defended the tactics used in Waco by stating that they had been employed during 346 raids which had been conducted against survivalist and cult groups in the previous 18 months. IMHO, a single Waco or Weaver, or Lawmaster incident could be written off as an anomalie, but when you get 346 of them, it begins to look like the government is quietly liquidating dissident groups, and if that isn't an internal war, it must certainly be considered to be a precursor to one. ============================================== Another file from The Soapbox BBS "Your Infotainment Specialist" An all text BBS specializing in e-zines and other unique text files. (919) 387-1152 - Up to 16.8 kbs - 8N1 Fidonet 1:151/142 - FREQ FILES for file list ===============================================

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