* Original: FROM: Linda Thompson * Original: TO: All * Original: AREA: AEN NEWS * Forwarde

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Here's another insane lunatic rant from the so-called "Hate Queen" Linda Thompson. What's interesting is that most other right-wing nutters who pretend they're "militia" distance themselves from this nutter. * Original: FROM: Linda Thompson * Original: TO: All * Original: AREA: AEN NEWS * Forwarded by Linda Thompson * Forwarded Using QuickBBS 2.76 Ovr * Forwarded at 02:46 on 21-Apr-93 Words can't express the sickness, horror and outrage I felt, watching an army tank bash holes in the walls of the house at Mt. Carmel Monday, April 19, 1993 -- exactly 50 years after the Nazis burned the Warsaw ghetto. And all the while, the FBI's personal buffoon, Ricks, sanctimoniously made claims that this was done to "urge" the people to come out, that the FBI was "concerned about child abuse" because of the "conditions the children were living in." What utter and total baldfaced lies. The holes were bashed in the sides of the building, not to introduce CS gas, so much as to make sure the house was well ventilated, so that the fire would spread rapidly. I have received reports from no less than 15 people across the country who saw on the TV footage, two men in black uniforms, wearing gas masks, set the fire. I personally saw an incendiary fly through into the second story window. Three others reported seeing footage where the tank drove over a gas tank, exploding it. I represent several family members and Branch Davidians. I have talked with several Branch Davidians. They are not glazed over moonie-type crazies. They are well educated, articulate, very nice people. All of them had normal jobs outside the Mt. Carmel Center. None of them believed they were under David Koresh's "control." All of them said they were free to leave whenever they wanted. One of them said that there was no "suicide" -- that no one from the Branch Davidians set the fire at all and didn't know it was coming. And the real story follows. * Original: FROM: Linda Thompson * Original: TO: All * Original: AREA: AEN NEWS * Forwarded by Linda Thompson * Forwarded Using QuickBBS 2.76 Ovr * Forwarded at 02:46 on 21-Apr-93 Most of you have seen our earlier accounts of Waco while the Branch Davidians were under seige and know from the TV news what the conditions were there. The news media was kept 3 miles from the Mt. Carmel Center by armed guards at all roads into the compound. And the media dutifully reguritated whatever tripe the FBI fed them each day at 10:30, calling it "news" as they slandered the Branch Davidians, spreading lies of "child molesting", "planned mass suicide", and "religious whackos in Waco." No matter, sensationalism sells newspapers, doesn't it? It gets those network ratings up, too. It wouldn't be a story if they told the truth. The FCC might shut down a network or two or yank a permit. Better that 100 people should die in an inferno than expose the depths of the depravity of the leaders of this country. Well, the FBI lied and so have the major media throughout this entire ordeal. Here's the real story: In 1992, Sheri Jewel and her ex-husband were in a custody battle over their daughter, Keri. Sheri was a Branch Davidian and she was killed in the fire Monday. Her ex-husband is a radio announcer. His wife is a TV personality. They have money. A fellow named Mark Breault, who is reputed to have a felony record, used to be a Branch Davidian. He proclaimed himself to be a prophet. After awhile, he tried to take over the Mt. Carmel compound and was ousted by David Koresh. Breault, an Australian, left, vowing revenge. He often called the compound daily to harrass the members. The Jewel's hired Mark Breault to testify in their custody dispute. In an affidavit, Breault made allegations of child molestation and religious weirdness. This was in Michigan in 1992. Senators were contacted to investigate these allegations, as was the "Cult Awareness Network." The Cult Awareness Network is a group in Washington, D.C., headed by the wife of late Senator Ryan who was killed at Jonestown. She has a personal vendetta, too. And she wields a lot of power in Washington, apparently, because if someone ends up on her cult hit list, they frequently end up dead. The allegations of child molestation were investigated in the intervening two years, twice, by Texas welfare department authorities and found to be baseless. The Sheriff's department investigated the allegations of illegal guns and these claims were found to be baseless. The investigations were peaceful. There were no problems. Mark Breault, however, continued to make his baseless and slanderous allegations against the Branch Davidians. The Cult Awareness Network turned up the pressure. The newspapers called Breault a "private investigator who has tracked the Davidians for two and a half years." "Tracked"? They had lived at the Mt. Carmel Center since 1935. How much "tracking" did it take? "Investigator"? Ha. He's a self- proclaimed "prophet" with a vendetta against the Branch Davidians. And who paid him so handsomely that he could afford to "track" them for 2-1/2 years, anyway? Did the media bother to check any of this out? Never. You may remember that in the first few days the Branch Davidians were under seige, they hung a sheet outside the window that said, "Send in Don Stewart, CFA and Ron Ingleman." I now know all these people pretty well by phone. Don Stewart says he is a former paid informant and hired assasin for the BATF. He named dates, times, and places, and detailed a secret hit squad operated under the BATF by a man code-named "Wolfgang" (whose name he identified to me). He claims this secret hit squad killed a fellow named Tomassi in California, a religious leader called the Bogwan Rashnesh Shari, and provided the weaponry to the woman named Moore who tried to shoot President Ford, driving her through guards to get her in place. They took her children to keep her quiet. He also says that John Wayne Hearns, the man who ran the ad in Soldier of Fortune magazine as a hired hitman that got Soldier of Fortune sued when he actually carried out a hired murder for someone, was a paid operative. Congressional records show that a man named Dirk Stoffberg was another such operative, who was a hired assassin of our government and also ran guns and cocaine in and out of the country. Don Stewart is now on the run from the BATF, living in an RV with his family. If even a 10th of his information is true, it is a sorry, sorry tale of the depravity existing at the highest levels of our government. CFA -- the Constitutional Foundational Association, was started by Greg Sali and Bill Griffith, to expose the true story in Waco. They are also now working to establish common law courts throughout the country to put corrupt judicial officials and politicians behind bars, where they belong. Together with Ken Fawcett, they have collected over 300 hours worth of videotapes of the initial onslaught. People who have studied these tapes in slow motion say that they show that the BATF agents who were killed going in through the second story window were killed by friendly fire and their own frag grenade. When they got inside the window, they were in a 10 x 10 room that had a locked steel door. They couldn't get out. They were hit by friendly fire and trapped in the room when the frag grenade went off. One Branch Davidian, Mike Schroeder, left the Mt. Carmel compound that morning to go to work as usual. He passed by agents who never stopped him. He didn't learn of the initial seige until later that day. When he tried to return home, he was shot in the back as he climbed a fence. His body was left hanging on the fence for days, as his wife and child could see him there, from inside the house. The government finally moved his body, using a grappling hook from a helicopter, at night, to drop it into a nearby field, where it was chewed by wild dogs and buzzards beyond recognition as a human being. Another man was shot and his body was left up on the water tower for days by the government and it, too, was dropped to the ground at night by a helicopter, leaving pieces to be scraped up from the ground. The two old ladies who came out of the compound with the children said that all the children had been in an upstairs room when they were suddenly fired upon by helicopters through the roof the day of the seige. They covered the children with their own bodies to protect them. These old ladies were charged with murder and held in jail. Eventually, they were put under arrest as material witnesses and held in a half-way house out of the city. While the FBI was claiming to be urging the Branch Davidians to surrender, FBI spokesperson Ricks announced on Friday, April 17th, that anyone who came out would be considered a threat to the BATF agents and would be shot. Shots and percussion grenades were fired at a person who tried to leave through a window that day and at Steve Schneider. Ricks said that Steve Schneider had "abused his privileges" and had to be taught a lesson. For 51 days, the FBI tortured the people inside the Mt. Carmel center. All utilities, including sanitation, were cut off. Loudspeakers were set up all around the house to blare sounds 24-hours a day, including the sounds of rabbits being slaughtered, the sound a phone makes when it is left off the hook, Tibetan monk chants, jet airplanes, babies crying, and songs such as "these boots are made for walking" and Christmas carols. Stadium lights were set up to keep the place lit up 24 hours a day. Military tanks, including M1 Abrams and Bradley's, were brought in and rapidly circled the house, firing percussion grenades, continuously. The tanks would charge up to the house and then stop within feet of the house repeatedly. Black helicopters flew overhead. Two huey gunships also flew over frequently, guns mounted in front. Around the 40th day of the seige, David Koresh announced that the children and babies were out of milk. Two relief efforts to bring baby food to the Mt. Carmel compound were turned back. Two people, one of them Gary Spaulding from South Bend, Indiana, were arrested for trying to take the food past a roadblock. When I posed the direct question to the FBI headquarters, "Has it come to this? Does the United States government want babies to starve to death?" The answer was, verbatim, "Yes." An ATF agent, in a pickup truck that said "Wild Bill" on the side, stole the food, too. And to that agent, and every state trooper, every BATF agent, and every FBI agent who prevented those children from receiving food, you are murderers. And how did the BATF account for what it did when it assaulted the Branch Davidians? Did it offer to show the American public the search warrant they claimed to have? No. In fact, the search warrant and probable cause affidavit, if they existed at all, were "sealed" by court order. A court order from the same judge who apparently signed it in the first place. The same judge, Walter Smith, Jr., of the Waco Division, Western U.S. District Court in Waco, denied eight petitions for relief filed by various lawyers seeking to order the FBI and BATF to be made to follow the law and the United States Constitution. The government never once filed a single paper in opposition to any of these motions. There was clear, controlling Supreme Court law that required that these petitions be granted. The judge had no legal reason to deny them, yet he did. And he used the same order, nearly a xerox, to deny all of them. Walter Smith, Jr., you are a murderer. Walter Smith is the same judge who allowed arraignments of people who left the compound to be held in secret. When there was not sufficient probable cause to hold them under arrest, he allowed them to be detained in jails as "material witnesses." And this same judge is the only judge in that division, where all the remaining Branch Davidians, now facing "murder" charges, will be put on trial. After the BATF and FBI learned that the American Justice Federation had released a press release stating that the use of military troops against United States citizens violated federal law, specifically, the Posse Comitatus act at the BATF released a cover story, claiming that the tanks were "really" not Army, they were national guard, and had been brought in under the "Drug interdiction act" because they had heard there was a "methamphetamine lab" -- three weeks after the FBI had already publicly announced there was never any question whatsoever of drug involvement. Governor Ann Richards of Texas, who authorized the use of the tanks, claimed she had been tricked. But she still did not order the tanks to be withdrawn. Ann Richards, you are a murderer. Each day, secret horrors were perpetuated upon the Branch Davidians, out of sight of the American public, as the press cowered like sheep, out on the fringes. Each day, the FBI gave us "The Truth", as told by the FBI, and the news media dutifully lapped it up and spread it throughout the country, poisoning the minds of people across the country, just as the FBI intended. FBI Agents Jeff Jamar and Ricks, you are murderers. Did any of the news media ever challenge how the BATF might have any jurisdiction at all over "child molesting" allegations? Or their authority to bring in two cattle trailers full of armed men, who threw grendades at the front door and went in shooting at women and children on a Sunday morning? Each of you in the media, who didn't question, who didn't challenge, who didn't know enough about the Constitution of this country to even ask an intelligent question, each of you are murderers. One or two persons asked decent questions at the press conference. Lewis Beam, a former KKK grand dragon and political activist, and a reporter from Soldier of Fortune Magazine, were kicked out of the press conference for doing so. Lewis Beam was arrested. His crime? Asking "Is this the beginning of gestapo tactics and martial law in this country?" at the press conference. Two other known "trouble makers" (this author included), were prevented from entering the press conference, despite valid press credentials. In fact, later that day, I was detained, as a BATF agent at a road block pointed a machine gun at me and my partner, John Baird, and our credentials were stolen. My crime? I had filed a lawsuit on behalf of the Branch Davidians, asking that they be allowed to have legal counsel. And, for all the unasked questions: No, it is not illegal to own a machine gun in this country. Even if the Branch Davidians had a machine gun, which it now appears they did not, if it was "illegal" it merely meant that a $200 tax had not been paid on it. All it takes to legally own a machine gun in this country is to pay a $200 tax and fill out a form 4. The BATF is supposed to check that those taxes have been paid. Neighbors we have spoken with who have known the Branch Davidians for 15 years described them as "good samaritan" types who helped their neighbors and were kind and friendly. Normal people, good neighbors. The kind of folks you'd probably rather have living around you than the thugs who commit the drive-by shootings, rapes, and robberies, for instance. Calling a religion a "cult" and putting out false information across the media about "child molesting" and "weapons caches" is exactly the same technique that was used by the Nazis to portray the Jews as filthy, disgusing people, so they could be killed. It is the same technique used by every tyrannical government, to kill an unpopular and potentially vocal adversarial group. But in this country, we are supposed to have freedom of religion. It would seem that is a pipe dream. We have three confirmed reported citings of trainloads of U.N. tanks going into Portland, Oregon, over the past few weeks, and troop movements of unmarked military vehicles across the nation. Perhaps you might want to ponder the significance of these events. And tonight, Peter Jennings, in yet another "made for propaganda" ABC News TV special, gave a full and impartial (not) accounting of events by having those bastions of integrity, Kisser, of the Cult Awareness Network, and a former Branch Davidian, give us "insight" into how Branch Davidians and "all cults" think. As if they know. Peter Jennings twice said tonight, that "there are more than 100 cults across the country and this is a warning of things to come." Paul Fatta, a Branch Davidian, held a Class III dealer's license. That meant that he could legally own, sell, and buy, any type of gun. It is thus highly unlikely that there were any "illegal" guns in the center at all. And who is responsible for issuing these permits? The BATF. They knew Paul Fatta had a license. Paul Fatta was not at the Mt. Carmel Center the day the BATF assaulted the Branch Davidians. Nonetheless, he is now listed on the FBI's "10 Most Wanted" list as "armed and dangerous." This gives the government the ability to shoot him on sight and then claim he was a "fleeing felon." It is, in otherwords, a license for the government to kill, again. To bury the best evidence against them, again. David Koresh had a message for the world. He wasn't holding out to commit suicide. He didn't hold anyone hostage. He wanted to give what he believed was a gift to the world. He believed he held the secret to the seven seals, spoken of in Revelations. He wanted to offer what he knew for anyone who could hear it, believing he had a duty to offer it to help save the souls of those who did not know. He wanted the time to write it down, which he had to do in candlelight, using a manual typewriter, on scraps of paper. He sent a message to the FBI telling them this. He also sent messages, Bible scriptures, that said that God would send his holy armies to smite his enemies. That much may be true. The Waco massacre has awakened Americans all across the nation to what is horribly wrong in this country. A voice of unity is being heard, growing louder each day. Interstingly, the day the Branch Davidians were murdered is also the anniversary of the ride of Paul Revere. We have seen our leaders on the television, lying to us with straight faces, offering justifications for this carnage, as if there could ever be any possible moral explanation or excuse that could be enough. That the people offering these excuses are morally bankrupt and corrupt, should be obvious. A simple, "We're sorry" would at least show a glimmer of common decency and humanity, but those words have never crossed any of their lips. And each of them, Bill Clinton, Janet Reno, William Sessions, and Lloyd Bentsen, are murderers. So, America, we have cold-blooded killers running our country. Isn't it about time you put down your beer, get up off the sofa, and do something about it? Linda Thompson American Justice Federation 317-780-5204 From: b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (relaying for Linda Thompson) Subject: Re: .50 cal. p-shooter Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 05:17:00 GMT In article , bfrg9732@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Brian F. Redman) writes... >Matt.Giwer@f326.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Matt Giwer)... >> In short, it looks as if Ms Thompson is just a jerkwater lawyer (as well >>as, maybe, a conspiracy buff) who has developed a money making scheme, and is >>using here cover-up dialogue as a marketing tool. What she's doing may be >>legal, but it's nevertheless a scam. And what this vulture has been doing with >>regards to the families of the Davidians is the kind of stuff that gives >>lawyers a bad name. > >Just conjecture, but she might be CIA disinformation. (Just theorizing). Not being one for gossip, I told LT about the complaints, who sent this... From: Linda.Thompson@f110.n231.z1.fidonet.org" 20-JUL Subj: RE: Character Assass. posted by Giwer, originally from S. Summers >In a message to Linda Thompson <07-19-93 00:05>... > > From: B645ZAW@UTARLG.UTA.EDU (STEPHEN TICE) > To: Linda.Thompson@f110.n231.z1.fidonet.org > Date: 18 Jul 1993 22:48:14 -0500 (CDT) > > --- < internet posting follows >--- > > Path: > math.fu-berlin.de!news.dfn.de!xlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin. > sura.net > !haven.umd.edu!uunet!sybus.sybus.com!palan!pdn!mechanic!f326.n3603.z1. > FIDONET. > ORG!Matt.Giwer > From: Matt.Giwer@f326.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Matt Giwer) > Sender: ufgate@mechanic.fidonet.org (newsout1.26) > Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy > Subject: .50 cal. p-shooter > Message-ID: <1559.2C49B3C1@mechanic.fidonet.org> > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 93 19:17:00 PDT > Organization: FidoNet node 1:3603/326 - SPPE, St Petersburg FL > Lines: 60 > > * Forwarded by MATT GIWER from the f-CONTROV conference. > * Original from SCOTT SUMMERS to MATT GIWER on 07-15-93. This is the funniest post I have read yet. Either Summers is a federal operative who is assigned to put out disinformation, or he is so far out in left field, he isn't in the ballgame. But nonetheless, he's certainly entertaining. Point by point: > and thought I'd let you know what I've found out so far, and ask for > your help once again. > First of all, I *still* need to get in touch with the person > (Clark Matthews?) who posted the original note on the "raw" footage > from the Waco The fellow's name isn't Clark Mathews and I know him quite well. > That Ms Thompson is, indeed, an attorney.... and she and her > organization are He got this one part right -- I am an attorney. > regarded as a "fringe" group even by people you would expect to > support her efforts. Lessee the pattern -- a generous and general slam with no foundation. Kind of like the allegations the feds made of "evil cult", etc. I see a pattern here. Nonetheless, American Justice Federation hears from 5,000 people every two weeks and I, for one, am elated to be on the "fringe." This country was founded by "religious gun nuts" as I recall. Good company to be in. > She has filed numerous lawsuits with regards to the Waco incident that > have all been dismissed. To call them frivolous would be charitable. > She has This is absolutely false. I filed one thing and one thing only and that was a Petition for Writ of Mandamus, which, incidentally, is the only thing of the original pleadings filed by anyone in the case that has gone up on appeal, to my knowledge. Deguirrin's, Zimmerman's, etc. petitions were all summarily dismissed. This is a matter of public record in the Waco court house and none to difficult to establish, so obviously, he hasn't done even the most basic research of any facts here. > positive comment I've heard on her is that she's a "nut." Ah, yes. Did you know this is the "party line" from the feds? It's become quite a joke on the radio shows -- we can expect at least one call from a fed saying "She's a nut, etc." One show, the lines were so jammed that this message was FAXXED to the station from a fed in Washington, D.C. Whether I'm a nut or not doesn't change the fact that the film foot- age proves the government murdered the Branch Davidians, nor will it change the fact that we have heard from dozens of people who saw this footage live, many of whom ALSO taped it, plus the footage was broad- cast and recorded by at least one television station and a major net- work. The truth is out and whether the feds label me a nut or not does not affect the truth -- they murdered the Branch Davidians. > On another front.... I passed her name, and that of her organization, > on to the two reputable attorneys (Jack Zimmerman and Dick Degurin) Oh yes. The first thing they did was score a movie deal and the track record during the seige is quite plain. Deguirrin was a classmate of William Sessions, too, btw. He was "allowed" in by the FBI after his petition had been dismissed by the court. > her for the tapes. In the first place, "edited" taped would be useless > for their purposes; and an implied, albeit not flatly stated, problem > was the fear that if they contacted her directly she would immediately > issue a press release I'd be willing to bet neither said any such thing. Nonetheless, I did not hold a single press conference during the Waco seige, but Deguirrin and Zimmerman regularly held press conferences and have appeared on numerous talk shows, not to mention cutting a movie deal. It is a bit dubious, in light of this, to attribute press matters to me. Additionally, since I will be meeting with most of the attorneys next week, it would appear that the "source" for this bit of disinformation is, again, pretty lame. > suggesting she was working with one or both of them and their > credibility would suffer as a result. ROTFL. > One thing Mr. Zimmerman did say that I found interesting...... > he said that if the footage Ms Thompson has is, in fact, what she > claims it to be then what she would have would be "dynamite".... > and that there would be no questions of "negotiating" a deal to > show her "documentary". One phone call would, in his words, "set > off a bidding war among the networks for rights to that footage." > She wouldn't have to be peddling her "expose" for fifteen bucks a > copy. He also stated that just within the last couple of days he Which illustrates two things: Either he is actively involved in the coverup or he hasn't a clue how extensively the major media have been involved in the coverup. This is something that can be factually and easily demonstrated by merely seeing the footage that the media had *IN THEIR POSSESSION* and did *not* show, for starters. Secondly, one has only to track the various FBI inconsistent stories throughout the seige and note that the press made no inquiry into these outright lies, nor sued over being kept 3 miles away to notice the involvement. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to discover these basic matters. So that leaves one to wonder whether Zimmerman is part and parcel of the fix, or whether he is genuinely so uninformed of the facts that he could make a statement such as this. Lastly, though, it could simply be that Summers himself made this up -- the more likely of the scenarios. > far directly contradicts every claim made for that tape. (BTW a .50 > cal weapon *was* found in the burnt-out building. A single-shot rifle > that can be legally purchased from almost any gun shop - no license > required). A .50 cal SEMI-AUTOMATIC legal rifle, which is *exactly* the information we put out on AEN weeks ago, and is what is in the tape, and what is in the inventory. The ATF claimed it was a .50 cal machine gun -- big difference, and false. B6> In short, it looks as if Ms Thompson is just a jerkwater lawyer B6> (as well as, maybe, a conspiracy buff) who has developed a money making B6> scheme, and is Oh, this is the best laugh yet. I have not made one cent on these tapes and likely will not, but I've spent a lot of money to get them out and will keep on doing it until the truth is in the hands of the public. B6> legal, but it's nevertheless a scam. And what this vulture has been B6> doing with regards to the families of the Davidians is the kind of B6> stuff that gives lawyers a bad name. Oh? And what might that be? Getting the truth out? Most of the Branch Davidians, in and out of jail, call me regularly to find out what is going on. I've turned down taking their cases so as to be able to get the truth out without being hassled by nonsense allegations like this one this Summers fellow has just made. So if it were a publicity stunt, I've had ample opportunity to represent BDs and have not done so. So now what is his excuse? Guess if he doesn't like the truth, a lie will have to do. Everyone of the BDs with whom I have spoken is *delighted* the tape is out and the truth is getting out. Also, did this fellow happen to notice that NBC staged an entire TV show presenting nothing but LIES about this that was in production even as the place burned? I don't see him leading a cry against the ethics of this, nor any of the other propaganda released by and through the media. This was the best laugh I've had all day, thanks for posting it. It's nice to know that the disinformation team is on its toes and putting out as much as it can to trash me. But they can't trash the tape -- the truth is there. The Branch Davidians put out a sheet during the seige that said it all: FBI, GOD SEES YOUR LIES. And now, the people will, too. --- QuickBBS 2.76 Ovr -- =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= (Gated via FidoNet Node 1:1/31) Linda Thompson Internet: Linda.Thompson@f110.n231.z1.fidonet.org Subject: waco Massacre Specifics From: searchnet.zec@channel1.com (Searchnet Zec) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 93 16:23:00 -0500 Hello. I was shown a video tape documentary that clearly shows federal agents massacre the Branch Davidians. There are two tapes under discussion. The documentary contained intercepted video feed from Waco the day of the massacre. This footage, shot by the federal government and edited in haste, reveals an intentional, thorough massacre. Not by suggestion or innuendo, but by showing the act itself as it happened. You see it. In the documentary, there is much reporting of the events that lead up to that day, but the uncontrovertable evidence is the footage from the day of the massacre. (I will return to specifics about what is shown directly.) The intercepted feed, and the originals it was derived from, should be available under the Freedom of Information Act, but this is very much what is at issue here today. The documentary is entitled "Waco, The Big Lie." It was produced by attorney Linda D. Thompson, who chairs the American Justice Federation, 3850 South Emerson Avenue, Suite E, Indianapolis, Indiana, 46203, (317) 780-5204. It was released on July 20, 1993. I should have more copies by Saturday morning. [That is Linda Thompson's law office. Order at the Beech Grove address above-CJB] I intend to screen the documentary for netters in the Portland, Oregon area and if you would like to attend, please send me e-mail. I should have a transcript to post by Monday morning. I have also arranged to digitize and upload still frames by Wednesday. The most compelling is the video of tank retrievers destroying the stairwell exits from the underground bunker and then a flamethrowing tank setting fire to the building itself. This is not hazy interpretation, but clearly visible arson. No doubt about it. Other footage shows armored personnel carriers and soldiers loitering over the underground bunker the Branch Davidians were in just before the first signs of smoke appear, hours before the government claims the fire started. Armed officers apparently wearing fire-protecting vests and masks are to be seen calmly leaving buildings on the compound just as the fire begins to spread rapidly. Tanks are shown pushing burning remnants of the fire into piles, apparently destroying evidence of what went on. There is also government footage of the original assault, in which an ATF agent shoots himself in the foot. An ATF agent apparently throws a grenade and fires blind into a window that three fellow ATF agents have just entered. Return fire includes three bullets simultaneously exiting the wall of the building in the general direction of the first ATF agent who had just fired. The agent was hit, but not injured, and the agent left the scene. Those three ATF agents died in the initial assault. No return fire is seen coming from the Branch Davidians, who never appear alive on the tape except in footage from before the initial raid. The government lied about having killed some members of the group that were trying to escape the compound. In reality, they had been trying to get in. Allegations of child abuse and automatic weapons possession had been investigated by local authorities and were found to be baseless. The ATF has no authority to investigate child abuse. The sarcastic denial that the government used to claim that Koresh believed he was God is completely understandable in context, although that context is difficult to describe. There were glaring technical mistakes and in the paperwork leading up to the warrant being issued. Ultimately, the warrant for the initial raid was issued because the ATF said that it had reason to believe that there might have been a machine gun at the compound for which a $200 fine had not been paid. The ATF claimed that the raid had be moved up when the Waco newspaper tipped off the Branch Davidians. But the original warrant would have expired on the day of the final raid. The Posse Commitatus Act states that the military cannot be used against the American people, but the ATF used a loophole. Federal manpower and material can be used in drug interdiction, so the ATF claimed that there was a drug lab at the compound. Once again, no evidence of a drug lab was ever found. Military forces were used, in violation of federal law, committing a massacre. An extensive disinformation campaign was being carried out, and still is. Psychological warfare was waged against the Branch Davidians during the siege. When a group member would piss off the government authorities, heavy vehicles crushed the cars of adults and even the tricycles of children. Searchlights swept the compound at night. Giant speakers played sounds of rabbits being slaughtered, and Nancy Sinatra's song "These Boots Are Made For Walking." One refrain of that song goes something like "I just found me a brand new box of matches, oh yeah, and if you play with fire, you're gunna get burned." The FBI surveillance was such that the FBI could see and hear everything going on in the house. These people were slaughtered, plain and simple. Part of the letter that accompanies the documentary reads: "I am an attorney. We here at [the American Justice Federation] are presently working on packets of information on how presidential executive orders, our present federal Court system, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, and persons behind the federal reserve system, are tied to clandestine CIA, Wackenhut, and other activities in this country that promise to bring about martial law within the next two years. This is not 'crackpot conspiracy stuff,' it is cold, hard, facts, with legal citations and documentation to prove it. We are also putting together a reference manual of information about the militia laws in all 50 states.... "There has been no effort to make any type of genuine investigation into Waco. Every current investigation is being controlled by either the Treasury Department or the Justice Department." "Either Attorney General Janet Reno or Deputy Attorney General Philip B. Heymann, by law, must first request that an independent prosecutor be appointed by a special panel of judges. This has not been done, nor is ANY independent investigation being conducted. Instead "special investigators" are merely "reviewing the performance" of the Justice and Treasury departments, and they're doing it under the supervision of Lloyd Bentsen, Secretary of the Treasury or Philip B. Heymann, the second-highest in command at the Justice Department -- talk about the foxes investigating the hen house!" We now know from the Federal Register that Treasury, under Treasury Secretary Bentsen, intends to make their report secret and not subject to the Freedom of Information Act on September 16, 1993. One might cynically guess that the Justice Department report would also be kept secret. If so, the eventual scandal will surely dwarf the one that would result if there was complete disclosure now. Immediate disclosure and federal prosecution for these crimes is vital to the cause of American freedom. Theus (orpheus@reed.edu) From: richard.donovan@cdreams.com (Richard Donovan) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 93 04:08:00 -0500 Here it comes folks: CROSS-POST ********** * Original: FROM: Linda Thompson * Original: TO: All * Original: AREA: AEN NEWS * Forwarded by Linda Thompson * Forwarded Using QuickBBS 2.76 Ovr * Forwarded at 13:20 on 03-Oct-93 I got a call Friday, October 1, from a pastor who said he had heard that tapes from a radio station interview of me and tapes of a local speech (both in South Bend, Indiana) had been subpoenaed for a grand jury. I called the radio station, WAMJ in South Bend, Indiana, and confirmed that Neil Douglas, a broadcaster at WAMJ, and the cable television station in South Bend, TCI, had both received subpoenas for copies of my appearance on the radio station in July and copies of my speech to a group in South Bend the same day. (These were NOT subpoenas for copies of the Waco tape, they were subpoenas for an interview and a speech I gave). The subpoenas were issued by assistant U.S. Attorney Michael Thrill in the U.S. attorney's office in Dyer, Indiana, for a grand jury to be held on October 13, 1993 in Hammond, Indiana. He works for DAVE CAPP, the U.S. Attorney who put a fellow named Dr. Dixon (a different local pastor, not the one referenced above) in jail for "contempt" for a week when he could not produce records of an insurance company more than ten years old that Dr. Dixon had three times already told the court he did not have. The case was not against Dr. Dixon, it was against someone else who wasn't even a member of Dr. Dixon's church. But interestingly, Dr. Dixon and his church have also been very active against the New World Order. They have had helicopters over the church and other harassment as well.) It turns out that DAVID JEWELL (he is the person in the Waco tape who was married to Sheri Jewell and who collaborated with MARC BREAULT and the CULT AWARENESS NETWORK to spread the tales of sex abuse, etc.) had called the station trying to get a copy of my appearance earlier and was told he could not get one. WHAT CONNECTIONS DOES DAVID JEWELL HAVE TO THE U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IN DYER, INDIANA THAT THE U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WOULD BE SUBPOENAING TAPES AT HIS REQUEST? Isn't it interesting that David Jewell and his sister have property in Jamaica where they receive large sums of money from a fellow who just shows up to pay them? Wonder if Jewell has any connection to the drug and gun running that is at the heart of all this? NBC, Cult Awareness Network, former CIA and FBI director Casey, and the Anti-Defamation league all had a cosey little meeting together in 1983. We've already seen what NBC did to the Branch Davidians, both during the coverage of the siege and then coming up with that tripe movie less than a week after the place was burned to the ground, and then, trying to make it seem like the Waco tape was from a homeless person in Waco, on the Tom Brokaw Now show. And isn't it interesting that David Jewell works for the NBC AFFILIATE at Notre Dame University? Isn't it interesting that this appears to be the SECOND time that Jewell is able to manipulate federal agents to do his bidding? Isn't it interesting that CERTAIN CITIZENS can get the feds to do whatever they choose, including MURDERING 100 PEOPLE? David Jewell's phone number at WNDU, the Notre Dame University Radio station which is an NBC AFFILIATE in Indiana is: 219-631-1616 I take this as an overt act of war, personally. CULT AWARENESS NETWORK, ADL, DAVID JEWELL, NBC -- GOD SEES YOUR LIES. --- QuickBBS 2.76 Ovr * Origin: Gun Control=Criminals & Gestapo vs. the Unarmed. (1:231/110) <<<<<>>>>> from the front page of the New York Times, Friday, October 1, 1993 REPORT on Initial Raid on Cult Finds Officials Erred and Lied Law enforcement officials botched virtually every aspect of their plan to capture David Koresh, the leader of the heavily armed cult near Waco, Tex., then misled investigators and Congress about their mistakes, according to the Clinton Administration's first official assement of the affair. In a brutually detailed report of mistakes and mendacity in the top ranks of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, the Treasury Department offered a wealth of new information today about one of the dealiest law-enforcement operations in modern times. ... The report said that senior agency officials went to even greater lengths than previously believed to decieve investigators and Congress. It said officials had changed a written record of the plan after the raid in a self-serving way and then lied about the alterations. It also concluded that officials had tried to pin the blame for the failure on an undercover agent, who in fact had tried to stop the raid. ... While exhaustive, the 220 page Treasury report deals with only part of the Government's handling of the Branch Davidians... .... 11 children from the Branch Davidian group remain in the custody of the Texas Department of Children's Protective Services .... Federal District Judge Walter SMith, who is set to hear the case, has set a trial date for January 10, 1994 and has indicated that he will consider Austin and San Antonio as alternative sites. ###### A NEW report from Treasury is due out this week! ####### Be advised that Linda has her own BBS system, the phone number for which was published earlier and that she is listed in the NODELIST.ZIP file containing the FIDONET nodes. Having seen Janet Reno's denial interview with Bill Moyers on PBS the other night ( where she equated the promise of health care reform in exhange for the 2nd Amendment ) - the only *real* flash of anger she showed in the hour long party chant, seemed to be about the BNL investigation in Atlanta. Not a word was mentioned about the Worthen & Stuttgart Banks in Arkansas, or the investigation of same concerning the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency's office in Memphis. Interesting that the government is ready to start up GRAND JURY proceedings against an attorney who is suing them and critiquing the government on the air and through the networks. It's probably just a lie - even if its the kind told by prosecutors and judges to themselves. Then again, they may be the same people who think that _being_ a character is the same thing as _having_ character. --richard.donovan@cdreams.com --Fidonet Netmail 1:278/712 --FatherNet BBS (718) 494-1719 PCBoard 15.0 USR-DS 16.8K --- JABBER v1.2 Yeltsin did what Clinton wants to. From: richard.donovan@cdreams.com (Richard Donovan) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 04:50:00 -0500 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ * Original: FROM: Linda Thompson * Original: TO: All * Original: AREA: AEN NEWS * Forwarded by Linda Thompson * Forwarded Using QuickBBS 2.76 Ovr * Forwarded at 06:48 on 14-Oct-93 (1 of 2 Posts) There is most definitely now an organized campaign of federal operatives and disinformation specialists showing themselves by attacking me (with false statements) and attacking the tape (with false claims). Specifically, the attacks on me and the tape (and my responses) are: (1) The flame coming from the flame-thrower isn't flame, it's (1) a piece of cardboard or something; (2) a piece of insulation; (3) glare from the gas, or (4) the "flames" were "added to" the footage by some sort of video enhancement or trickery. Most frequently, I am seeing self-proclaimed "tape experts" who claim to have "analyzed" the tape to come up with these amazing "revelations." The efforts to make the above claim(s) have "analyzed" another piece of tape, NOT the pieces that plainly show the flame throwing tank. Secondly, *NO* analysis of the segment on the Waco, the Big Lie tape can be from anything but the original, period. And not even one of these so-called "analyses" has *EVER* said there was any evidence of tampering, not once, ever. The only claims of "tampering" have come from people who speculate what "could be" done with video trickery. All examinations have shown there is no tampering. Tampering would be visible even on a copy and believe me, plenty have people have tried to find such proof and NO ONE has -- because they can't. There was no tampering. I didn't even have it "enhanced" to make it clearer so that there would be absolutely no possibility that I could be accused of "tampering" with the footage. What you see is exactly what was broadcast on television. One of the most obnoxious of these self-proclaimed-also-ran experts is a fellow who found a piece of footage (I have not seen) that shows the tank at a different hole, shooting flame. He is intent on proving the tank in my tape is *not* shooting flames, while simultaneously insisting his footage shows a flame throwing tank at the front door. This sounds screwy, right? But the reason is simple enough: He wants "his" footage to be "the" only source for this information because he is trying to use "his" footage to bargain himself out of a felony charge in Massachusetts. He is now claiming he has "analyzed" my footage and it isn't flame. There was not just one time this tank went in and out of holes in the house, though, there were several times. And other tanks went in the same hole. This was part of the smokescreen the feds intentionally created. Two of the times the particular tank that was equipped with a flame-thrower goes in the hole, fire can be seen; other times, no fire can be seen. There is another scene where a tank backs out, pulling out debris with it. There is another scene where only some smoke can be seen around the end of the tank, no flame. The house had no insulation, so this cannot be insulation; gas does not produce glare that drips or flickers, as this obvious flame does; and there is nothing else that produces flame other than fire. Anyone who has ever seen a fire can tell it's fire, purely and simply. So all these so-called "analysis" claims are bogus. Period. (2) The CEV can't shoot flames, so the flame-throwing footage can't be showing a flame-thrower. The tank shooting the flames is not a CEV. It is an M67A2 tank, that has had a boom added to it to disguise it to LOOK like a CEV. The ONLY purpose of an M67A tank is shooting fire, using napalm or jellied gasoline. --- QuickBBS 2.76 Ovr * Origin: Gun Control=Criminals & Gestapo vs. the Unarmed. (1:231/110) ============================================================================== * Forwarded by Linda Thompson * Forwarded Using QuickBBS 2.76 Ovr * Forwarded at 06:49 on 14-Oct-93 (2 of 2) (3) The scene in Waco, the Big Lie, was "more than 45 minutes before the fire started" and "the fire didn't start in that part of the house." (Department of Justice makes these claims in their Waco investigation report, responding to questions about the tape, Waco, the Big Lie). Both statements are false. The scene is only a few minutes before the news media *CLAIMED* the fire started at the window. However, the camera shots were held tight, so that all we could see on TV was the window on fire. What was *NOT* shown was that the entire back of the house at the wall where that tank had been was already on fire and burning simultaneously. This can be seen in overhead shots that were not shown at the time the fire was broadcast live. (4) "Linda Thompson has no military background" or "Linda Thompson has a military background -- highschool ROTC." (Both statements were made by Bo Gritz, the first at Loudenville, Ohio and the second statement, he recently put in his newsletter. AFTER I talked to him about these claims he continues to make them). I have never been in ROTC of any kind. I was active Army from 1974 through 1978 and last served as the assistant to the Commanding General of Allied Forces Central Europe, where I held a CTS/ATOMAL clearance and revised the Nato Warplans Manuals. I was also in the USAR from 1978-1987. I received an ARCOM for my work in writing the history of various military operations, including refugee operations after Saigon fell and JTX operations throughout the United States; GCMDL, Humanitarian Service, Vietnam Service (time period/not in-country), expert in .45, .38, M16, hand grenades; and the German Bronze lanyard (Schutzensnuer). My AFQT is 157; my MOS's were Steno and Senior Personnel Sergeant (SFC/E-7); I completed the Infantry Officer pre-commission course, the AG Officer basic Course and was the second woman assigned to an Airborne-D, TOE STRAF unit. (5) "There is no proof that 3 of the 4 men killed at Mt. Carmel were Clinton's bodyguards as Linda Thompson claims in the tape, Waco, the Big Lie." (This ridiculous statement and two paragraphs claiming I failed to "research" this point and using it to claim I was spreading disinformation made a laughing stock out of Criminal Politics Magazine when they learned the information was public knowledge.) President Clinton himself stated that these three men had been members of his presidential security during his campaign and named the men by name in his address to the Treasury on March 18, 1993, in the Cash Room at 11:38 a.m. A copy of this speech by the President, which was publicly broadcast, is available on Compuserve in the Whitehouse forum files area. Bo Gritz, a few of his supporters including two radio personalities who, for the time being, shall remain nameless but they know who they are, Gary Hunt (the ATF operative) and Criminal Politics magazine (citing Gritz as the source), have been the primary proponents of this disinformation (and gutless liars who send unsigned faxes across the UN-Patriot Fax Network.) The one thing about being able to see this flame-thrower footage yourself is that you can see the flames yourself, know what you are seeing, and then, decide whether you believe your own eyes or what someone else tells you. And know, by their words and deeds, who the disinformation agents are. Numerous experts have examined the flame thrower footage and conclude it is fire, as has everyone who has no vested interest in trying to spread disinformation. Even the Department of Justice wasn't stupid enough to try to claim the flame-throwing tank footage doesn't show fire and you know they would have if they could have. Waco, the Big Lie, is 32 minutes long. It is available from: Waco PO Box 14 Beech Grove, IN 46107 or Visa/MC 1-800-758-0308. $19.95 + 3.00 shipping/handling --- QuickBBS 2.76 Ovr * Origin: Gun Control=Criminals & Gestapo vs. the Unarmed. (1:231/110) * Original: FROM: Linda Thompson * Original: TO: All * Original: AREA: AEN NEWS * Forwarded by Linda Thompson * Forwarded Using QuickBBS 2.76 Ovr * Forwarded at 05:31 on 15-Oct-93 WACO, THE BIG LIE -- THEY CAN'T EXPLAIN IT AWAY!!! (Comments set off by ******* are my comments and did not appear in the newspaper -- Linda Thompson) WASHINGTON TIMES STORY WITH RESPONSE BY LINDA THOMPSON FBI still probing video of tank at Waco Washington Times (WT) - Saturday, October 9, 1993 By: Jerry Seper - THE WASHINGTON TIMES Edition: Final Section: A Page: A9 A Justice Department official who helped write a report on the role of the department and the FBI in the Branch Davidian raid says a video purporting to show a tank shooting flames into the compound is under review. Richard Scruggs, an assistant to Attorney General Janet Reno, said the video - by Indianapolis lawyer Linda Thompson - "raised our eyebrows and caused the same concern" others have expressed. Distributed to news organizations around the country, the video purports to show one of the FBI tanks at the Waco compound firing flames into the building before the start of the fire. Miss Thompson has claimed it proves the FBI started the blaze that killed 85 persons, including 24 children. Mr. Scruggs said that Justice officials submitted the video to the University of Maryland for expert analysis and that preliminary results have not been conclusive. ******************************************************************* Comment: Every expert to whom I have shown this tape or with whom I have discussed it has said that the original footage, or footage better than a VHS copy must be examined. I have this footage and NO ONE from the Department of Justice or University of Maryland has asked to examine it. Their so-called "examination" is yet another FRAUD!! --Linda Thompson ****************************************************************** He said that the armored vehicle used by federal authorities, on loan from the military, was not equipped with any type of flame-throwing capability and that the only way a flame could have come from it would have been through some type of "busted hydraulic line or something like that." He said Justice officials had examined the vehicle and found no evidence of broken parts. Another analysis of the tape has been ordered, he said. ****************************************************************** Comment: They are "examining" the wrong vehicle, or lying. In the official reports, Reno and Dennis claimed the tank in my footage is merely a CEV. That is false. It was disguised to LOOK like a CEV, but it is not. And they have been examining a CEV, which is why they aren't finding the evidence -- FBI, WHERE'S THE M67 FLAME THROWING TANK? --Linda Thompson ***************************************************************** Mr. Scruggs noted that a preliminary assessment of the video is that what appears to be a flame shooting out of the vehicle was a flash from the dispersant - carbon monoxixde - used to propel the chemical agent CS into the compound. ***************************************************************** COMMENT: IMPORTANT!! NOTICE THE DOJ IS NOW CLAIMING THAT CARBON MONOXIDE, A DEADLY POISONOUS GAS, WAS USED TO "PROPEL THE CHEMICAL AGENT CS" (CS GAS) INTO THE HOUSE!!! Remember how they claimed to have used a "non-flammable" CS gas that wouldn't hurt the children? How many different lies is this about the gas now? Worse, the inventory filed with the court by the police PLAINLY shows that the CS gas was shot in with GRENADE LAUNCHERS, using FERRET GRENADES. None of the tanks were equipped to "inject gas" that were out at Mt. Carmel, which is plainly visible in all the footage available from April 19. ****************************************************************** A second possibility, he said, was a defect in the way the video was shot. **************************************************************** Comment: Fine. Let them make that claim for the OTHER TWO segments of video tape now known to exist that ALSO show a flame throwing tank at DIFFERENT PARTS of the house! Explain why an M67 FLAME-THROWING TANK is PLAINLY VISIBLE pushing the house into the fire, and parked alongside the ruins in the tape, Waco, the Big Lie, too. --LT **************************************************************** "I don't know what it is," he said. "I'll have to be honest with you." **************************************************************** Comment: "Honest?" Ha! That's a laugh. He knows darned good and well what it is. His problem is trying to find a lie the public will buy! --LT *************************************************************** He noted that the fire at the compound did not erupt for at least 35 to 40 minutes after the light flash is observed in the video. *************************************************************** Comment: This damns them, right here! Either this is an outright lie or they have possession of footage from a TV station. There is no way to make any "time" determination from my tape because my tape doesn't show the rest of the footage after the tank backs out up to the point the fire is seen at the window. That particular tank and other tanks went in and out of the same hole at least nine times. Furthermore, overhead shots of the fire show that the fire DID begin at that back wall at the same time as the window fire is visible. And it wasn't any 35-40 minutes earlier, either. *************************************************************** An inquiry into the video was continuing, Mr. Scruggs said. ************************************************************* Comment: That's the understatement of the year -- thousands of Americans are now investigating this because we KNOW the feds have lied through their teeth and we're SICK of it. To get a copy of Waco, the Big Lie: Visa/MC: 1-800-758-0308. Check, money order, etc: Waco, PO Box 14, Beech Grove, IN 46107 $19.95 + 3.00 s/h. ============================================================================== * Original: FROM: Linda Thompson * Original: TO: All * Original: AREA: AEN NEWS * Forwarded by Linda Thompson * Forwarded Using QuickBBS 2.76 Ovr * Forwarded at 08:45 on 14-Oct-93 Let's stop crime. FEDS CLAIMED: Make it illegal to buy drugs and people will stop buying them and the drug problem will be solved and crime will go down. FACT: Making drugs illegal created a black market in drugs, making selling drugs more profitable than ever before. As a result, gangs fight over who gets the rights to sell drugs in each area, so there are gang wars. The shootings that occur are primarily the result of the fights over turf. Because a junkie is likely to be arrested, rather than treated, few junkies voluntarily seek treatment. They also find that they must steal to support their habit. All these situations have INCREASED CRIME and have done NOTHING to decrease the use of drugs. Nothing. And what did it get us, as a society? More and more and more federal and state police. More and more and more laws on the books. And with each law, more police. And with more police, the need for more people to process the arrested people, to jail people awaiting trial, to process the fingerprint cards, the warrants, the jail paperwork, judges to try the case, court reporters to record the hearings and trial, bailiffs to guard the courtroom, parole officers, holding cells in the courtrooms, guards in the courtrooms, people to oversee the person in prison, overcrowded prisons, murderers, rapists and child molesters released early to make room for junkies, more paperwork to process, more taxes to support the ever bloating machine. And it didn't decrease drug use. Not at all. And the people who passed these laws are laughing their butts off at all of us. We have become willing servants, surrendering our rights, allowing ourselves to be searched on the streets, in our cars, to have our property seized without charges being filed, to have summary trials because the court's are overburdened -- we gave all our rights up for the "war on drugs." But it wasn't a "war on drugs" at all, it was a systematic, planned way to remove all rights of privacy, all rights of due process, freedome to be free of unreasonable searches and seizures from the American public, to condition us all to submit to police state tactics. And we bought it, hook, line and sinker. And it hasn't done anything for the war on drugs except make the drug runners filthy rich. And those drug runners aren't the street thugs the newspapers play up all the time -- they are people at the highest level of our government who are plundering and raping us, right now, as they run illegal cocaine into this country and guns out of it, to make a fortune. Suckers. --- QuickBBS 2.76 Ovr * Origin: Gun Control=Criminals & Gestapo vs. the Unarmed. (1:231/110) ============================================================================== * Forwarded by Linda Thompson * Forwarded Using QuickBBS 2.76 Ovr * Forwarded at 08:56 on 14-Oct-93 Let's ban guns. Let's do for crime control what banning drugs has done. Let's create an enormous, very profitable, illegal black market for guns. Make them illegal, make them hard to get, drive the price up. And, as we have seen with banned drugs, when the price goes up, gangs fight over who gets the turf to sell the illegal guns. And they fight and shoot each other over it, increasing crime, increasing the danger to the surrounding communities. And of course, criminals will have open season on law-abiding citizens who turn in their guns to cooperate with the bans. Knowing that citizens are probably unarmed is certainly going to discourage criminals from attacking. Criminals armed with guns certainly wouldn't attack defenseless, unarmed citizens, would they? OF COURSE THEY WOULD. And isn't that the point? Because as it becomes easier to commit crimes, more crimes will occur. As the price of guns goes up because they are illegal, we'll see more and more gangs trying to get into the illegal gun running and gun sales business, and they will fight, shoot and war with one another on our streets. And we'll scream for more police, more police "protection" -- we will be overrun, by the tax burden to support the enforcement, prosecution, and jailing for "illegal" gun possession, and by crime. We will be terrorized and we will become prisoners in our own homes. Helpless to defend ourselves, dependent on Uncle Sugar Tit to take care of us. And once you are thoroughly terrorized by crime in the streets and in your home, once you are totally dependent on Uncle Sugar Tit for your protection, how will you protect yourself from Uncle Sugar Tit when he tells you that in exchange for all this protection, you are going to do as you are told? You can't and you won't. Swat team gestapo on every corner -- you'll have demanded it for your "protection" by that time. And your protectors will be your captors. You'll be the perfect, obedient little slave, won't you? And not a single problem we have right now will be solved. But it will create a whole lot of new, very dangerous and very expensive new ones. And the gun runners who passed these laws will be laughing their butts off at us. Because those gun runners are the people who will make millions of dollars and they are the very people who have been running guns to other countries, staging wars for their own profit, leaders at the highest levels of our government, private wealthy business men, who got wealthy by recognizing how to create the perfect market. Let's ban guns. From: Linda Thompson Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.society.civil-liberty,uiuc.civil-liberty,alt.activism Subject: Videotape: Waco, The Big Lie Date: 20 Oct 1993 05:39:37 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 75 Message-ID: <2a2iup$8lu@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ux4.cso.uiuc.edu Originator: cburian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu Xref: msc.edu alt.conspiracy:35119 alt.society.civil-liberty:9094 alt.activism:53142 ===== Forwarded from FIDONet Civil Liberties conference ===== -=> Quoting Linda Thompson to All <=- LT> This is the tape, "Waco, the Big Lie" that I put together. Thanks to LT> the efforts of citizens all over the country, and in Austin, LT> especially to Terry Liberty Parker and Neal Atkins, this LT> tape is showing America what really happened, in spite of LT> the efforts of the major networks to help keep this quiet. LT> William P. Cheshire, a noted columnist in Arizona, covered LT> it, too, as has the San Antonio News, and a local network LT> channel in Texas. LT> It is being shown on cable access channels around the LT> country -- the FBI can't stop people from doing this LT> everywhere, as they have the few network heads. LT> This will *not* be another Kennedy or Watergate coverup. This time, LT> they were caught on tape, and not just the tape I have, either. LT> Other people taped satellite uplink footage of the same LT> tank from different camera angles and these tapes further LT> substantiate what was done and show even more -- one set LT> of tape sent to me by a fellow in the Southeast clearly LT> shows agents, with rifles, going in and out of the house. LT> A guy in California has tape footage showing the flame- LT> throwing tank at another hole in the house. LT> They're caught, all we have to do is get them to trial for LT> murder and treason. Most of the criminals, aside from LT> Clinton and Reno, are members of the so-called "Hostage LT> Rescue Team" of the FBI and other members from the FBI LT> SWAT teams of various cities in Alabama and elsewhere. LT> I have asked US Attorneys to take this on -- gave them the LT> tape. No one disagrees what is there, but no one has the LT> balls or integrity to take it on. LT> One senator is having things sent back and forth to me by personal LT> courier, and a legislative aide told me that the senator he works LT> for was threatened for speaking out. A newspaper reporter LT> came to my office to tell me his editor has been told to LT> "trash" me. A disinformation campaign was started three LT> weeks ago, but it has backfired, hilariously, because what LT> the feds chose to attack was information readily provable, LT> words spoken by the President himself (whether the three LT> ATF agents killed had been Clinton's bodyguards or not -- LT> Clinton himself said that in his address to the treasury LT> on March 18, and we have a transcript of the speech). LT> Anyone who wants a copy of the tape, it's $19.95 plus $3 LT> shipping and handling (and no, I haven't made any money LT> off this, you can see the books if you like -- we have LT> given away more than we've sold to get the word out and LT> I'm *still* out of pocket $30,000). I would like to not be LT> "peddling tapes" and wouldn't be if the damned media were LT> not liars and cowards. LT> Anyway: LT> Visa/MC 1-800-758-0308 LT> Mail: LT> Waco LT> PO Box 14 LT> Beech Grove, IN 46107 LT> LT>--- QuickBBS 2.76 Ovr LT>* Origin: Gun Control=Criminals & Gestapo vs. the Unarmed. (1:231/110) -- ============== ======== ============================ From: Linda Thompson Subject: Commentary on Washington Post Article Date: 20 Oct 1993 05:43:08 GMT ===== Forwarded from FIDONet civil liberties conference ===== Date: 10-15-93 (05:31) Number: 78 From: LINDA THOMPSON Refer#: NONE To: ALL -- CROSS POST PLEASE! Recvd: NO Subj: COMMENTARY ON WASHINGTON Conf: (7) Civlib --------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Original: FROM: Linda Thompson * Original: TO: All * Original: AREA: AEN NEWS * Forwarded by Linda Thompson * Forwarded Using QuickBBS 2.76 Ovr * Forwarded at 05:31 on 15-Oct-93 WACO, THE BIG LIE -- THEY CAN'T EXPLAIN IT AWAY!!! (Comments set off by ******* are my comments and did not appear in the newspaper -- Linda Thompson) WASHINGTON TIMES STORY WITH RESPONSE BY LINDA THOMPSON FBI still probing video of tank at Waco Washington Times (WT) - Saturday, October 9, 1993 By: Jerry Seper - THE WASHINGTON TIMES Edition: Final Section: A Page: A9 A Justice Department official who helped write a report on the role of the department and the FBI in the Branch Davidian raid says a video purporting to show a tank shooting flames into the compound is under review. Richard Scruggs, an assistant to Attorney General Janet Reno, said the video - by Indianapolis lawyer Linda Thompson - "raised our eyebrows and caused the same concern" others have expressed. Distributed to news organizations around the country, the video purports to show one of the FBI tanks at the Waco compound firing flames into the building before the start of the fire. Miss Thompson has claimed it proves the FBI started the blaze that killed 85 persons, including 24 children. Mr. Scruggs said that Justice officials submitted the video to the University of Maryland for expert analysis and that preliminary results have not been conclusive. ******************************************************************* Comment: Every expert to whom I have shown this tape or with whom I have discussed it has said that the original footage, or footage better than a VHS copy must be examined. I have this footage and NO ONE from the Department of Justice or University of Maryland has asked to examine it. Their so-called "examination" is yet another FRAUD!! --Linda Thompson ****************************************************************** He said that the armored vehicle used by federal authorities, on loan from the military, was not equipped with any type of flame-throwing capability and that the only way a flame could have come from it would have been through some type of "busted hydraulic line or something like that." He said Justice officials had examined the vehicle and found no evidence of broken parts. Another analysis of the tape has been ordered, he said. ****************************************************************** Comment: They are "examining" the wrong vehicle, or lying. In the official reports, Reno and Dennis claimed the tank in my footage is merely a CEV. That is false. It was disguised to LOOK like a CEV, but it is not. And they have been examining a CEV, which is why they aren't finding the evidence -- FBI, WHERE'S THE M67 FLAME THROWING TANK? --Linda Thompson ***************************************************************** Mr. Scruggs noted that a preliminary assessment of the video is that what appears to be a flame shooting out of the vehicle was a flash from the dispersant - carbon monoxixde - used to propel the chemical agent CS into the compound. ***************************************************************** COMMENT: IMPORTANT!! NOTICE THE DOJ IS NOW CLAIMING THAT CARBON MONOXIDE, A DEADLY POISONOUS GAS, WAS USED TO "PROPEL THE CHEMICAL AGENT CS" (CS GAS) INTO THE HOUSE!!! Remember how they claimed to have used a "non-flammable" CS gas that wouldn't hurt the children? How many different lies is this about the gas now? Worse, the inventory filed with the court by the police PLAINLY shows that the CS gas was shot in with GRENADE LAUNCHERS, using FERRET GRENADES. None of the tanks were equipped to "inject gas" that were out at Mt. Carmel, which is plainly visible in all the footage available from April 19. ****************************************************************** A second possibility, he said, was a defect in the way the video was shot. **************************************************************** Comment: Fine. Let them make that claim for the OTHER TWO segments of video tape now known to exist that ALSO show a flame throwing tank at DIFFERENT PARTS of the house! Explain why an M67 FLAME-THROWING TANK is PLAINLY VISIBLE pushing the house into the fire, and parked alongside the ruins in the tape, Waco, the Big Lie, too. --LT **************************************************************** "I don't know what it is," he said. "I'll have to be honest with you." **************************************************************** Comment: "Honest?" Ha! That's a laugh. He knows darned good and well what it is. His problem is trying to find a lie the public will buy! --LT *************************************************************** He noted that the fire at the compound did not erupt for at least 35 to 40 minutes after the light flash is observed in the video. *************************************************************** Comment: This damns them, right here! Either this is an outright lie or they have possession of footage from a TV station. There is no way to make any "time" determination from my tape because my tape doesn't show the rest of the footage after the tank backs out up to the point the fire is seen at the window. That particular tank and other tanks went in and out of the same hole at least nine times. Furthermore, overhead shots of the fire show that the fire DID begin at that back wall at the same time as the window fire is visible. And it wasn't any 35-40 minutes earlier, either. *************************************************************** An inquiry into the video was continuing, Mr. Scruggs said. ************************************************************* Comment: That's the understatement of the year -- thousands of Americans are now investigating this because we KNOW the feds have lied through their teeth and we're SICK of it. To get a copy of Waco, the Big Lie: Visa/MC: 1-800-758-0308. Check, money order, etc: Waco, PO Box 14, Beech Grove, IN 46107 $19.95 + 3.00 s/h. --- QuickBBS 2.76 Ovr * Origin: Gun Control=Criminals & Gestapo vs. the Unarmed. (1:231/110) -- ============== ======== ============================ From: ad626@yfn.ysu.edu (Steve Crocker) Subject: Re: Looking for Waco video Date: 22 Oct 1993 07:49:18 GMT The following was posted on Linda Thompson's AEN FidoNet echo by a persistent critic/skeptic. He has not stated the nature of the "evidence" he offers, but appears to hint that it involves footage deleted from LT's video. My suggestion would be for those who plan to evaluate "Waco - The Big Lie" to send for this material also. (Note - I myself have seen neither). -Steve Message #7935 "AEN Criminal Politics, Government Crimes" Date: 17-Oct-93 01:10 From: John Hrusovszky To: All Subj: Waco: The Really Big Lie! Attention Patriots... Linda's tape, as I have previously stated, contains scenes represented as being something they are not. I have irrefutable proof that the Flame-throwing tank scene contains absolutely NO flames whatsoever. If you really want the truth, send a blank VHS tape, self-adhesive addressed label, and return postage and I will copy the proof onto your tape and send it back. No, not $20.00, or even $19.95; merely return postage. My intentions are not to make money, but to get the REAL TRUTH out. Send to: J R Dairy Supply, Inc. 410 East Main Street Auburndale, WI. 54412 --jah ... Civilization is a Race between Education and Catastrophe! --- Via Silver Xpress V3.01 --- RBBSMail v18.1 * Origin: The Twilight Zone BBS*Auburndale (715) 652-2758 (1:238/300.0) From: cburian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Christopher J Burian) Subject: Re: Looking for Waco video Date: 22 Oct 1993 19:11:48 GMT ad626@yfn.ysu.edu (Steve Crocker) writes: ] ]Message #7935 "AEN Criminal Politics, Government Crimes" ]Date: 17-Oct-93 01:10 ]From: John Hrusovszky ]To: All ]Subj: Waco: The Really Big Lie! ] ]Attention Patriots... ] ]Linda's tape, as I have previously stated, contains scenes represented ]as being something they are not. I have irrefutable proof that the ]Flame-throwing tank scene contains absolutely NO flames whatsoever. ] John Hrusovszky says he has a clip of the Big Lie flame-throwing scene from another camera. The thing that looks like a flame, and the Justice Department thinks looks like an *inexplicable* flame, is the reflection of sunlight off of debris. He claims that his tape is not cut right in the middle of the flame-throwing scene, but continues as the tank withdraws far away from the home with the "flame" going on, and on, and on.... Linda Thompson says John's video shows a tank (er, CEV) backing into the building making a fresh hole while The Big Lie scene shows a tank driving into, then backing out of a previously-made hole. She also claims that the sun is in the wrong position to provide a reflection off debris. Linda also says a supplement tape will be available in November or December with additional footage to refute that this newly discovered clip is not the same scene as that shown in the Big Lie. She didn't say whether she'd charge a lot for the new tape or not. John seems to be under the spell of some guy named Rod (forget his last name) who is challenging Al & Linda Thompson to be the "one and only" purveyor of truth in the Waco massacre. Rod and Linda are ranting at each other in a big dick contest, and Linda seems to be better hung ;-) I'm not sure John has the time to make thousands of copies of his video clip! And the Rod character claims to "own" half the tape--forgetting that it was recorded off the TV. Either it's public domain, or Turner Broadcasting owns the recording--Rod sure doesn't. This stuff is a weird, personal flame war that, IMO doesn't discredit "Waco: The Big Lie." Nobody's claiming the tape is doctored--only that the flame which the Justice Department admits is a flame is not a flame, but a reflection on debris. Judge for yourself. -- ============== ======== ============================ From: ad626@yfn.ysu.edu (Steve Crocker) Subject: Re: Looking for Waco video Date: 23 Oct 1993 08:11:27 GMT Within the past couple of hours I have had a chance to read more of the AEN echo, through about 10/19. The exchanges among John, Rod, Linda Thompson, and Al Thompson impress me negatively. At one point, John talked with Linda on the phone for a long time and decided she was a sincere person after all. He then offered to send Linda the tape, and asked others to hold off requesting copies for another couple weeks until Linda had a chance to watch and evaluate it. Then Rod, claiming part ownership of the tape, stated that he would prevent John from copying the tape for Linda, apparently because he dislikes Linda's attitude. I have not read up to the present yet, so I don't know the current status of the situation. Will John show Linda the tape? Will Rod write his "unauthorized biography" of Linda? Will Janet Reno marry Bo Gritz? Is any of this helping defend the Constiution? If this is the level of maturity of Constitutionalist leadership I would almost prefer to take my chances with Congress. -Steve From: sflorek@crash.cts.com (Steven Florek) Subject: Re: Looking for Waco video Date: 25 Oct 93 00:41:22 PDT There is a simple way to resolve the controversy over the flamethrowing tank that can be resolved by non-experts quite easily. The M48 medium tank was first produced in 1950, and has seen many incarnations since. One of its derivatives is the M67 flamethrower tank, of which the M67A1 that Ms. Thompson claims is in the video is a variant. Last I heard, all US M67s are in storage in preparation for wartime. Dunno how that may have changed with the end of the Cold War and all. The M60 main battle tank (MBT) was developed from the M48 and came into service in the 1960s. The M60 is easily distinguished from the M48 by its flatter turret and different wheel configuration. The M728 Combat Engineering Vehicle (CEV) present at Waco is a derivative of the M60. The M67 differs from the M48 in having its cannon replaced by a flamethrower. The M728 differs from the M60 in having its cannon replaced by a low-speed demolition gun, an a-frame straddling its turret, and a winch at the rear. The M60/728 and M48/67 are can be visually distinguished in the following ways: Wheel configuration: M48: V V V V V -----------------------------------| \ OO O O O O O OO | \OO OO | \ ## ## ## ## ## ----- M60: V V V -----------------------------------| \ OO O O O OO | \OO OO | \ ## ## ## ## ## ----- Note the wheels represented by 'O's pointed to by 'V's. The M48 has five of these wheels, whereas the M60 has three. For the conclusion-impaired, the M67 flamethrower has five such wheels whereas the M728 CEV has three such wheels. Turret shape: M48: These tanks' turrets have a very simple, rounded appearance; like a bubble. M60: M60s have a flatter, more complicated profile. No ASCII drawings can really illustrate correctly :) So...those of you who have the Thompson film, or any film at all of the Waco thing can find out for yourselves if there was an M67 at Waco. I see no reason why one should have to rely solely upon Linda Thompson or the FBI. From: searchnet.zec@channel1.com (Searchnet Zec) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 93 04:53:00 -0500 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- + This Message Has Passed Through SearchNet Network + ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Original +-----------+ From: LINDA THOMPSON + FORWARDED + To: ALL + MESSAGE + Date: 10/04/93 +-----------+ System: XBNBBS1 Topic: 0079 - I:AENNEWS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- + SearchNet: _Finding_ Information For People Who _Search_ + ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Got a call tonight from one of our best sources of solid information who relayed that apparently due to a three year old girl being "shot by a stray bullet" in Washington, D.C., that the National Guard had been called out in Washington, D.C. and would be conducting "house to house searches for guns" (just like in Chicago/Cabrini Green) at the housing projects and that this was "covered over" by the news about the Soviet Union. Now, combine this with the info we received from Texas in the net earlier about the military from Ft. Polk and Ft. Filey lining the border in Texas, and the info we have about all these "urban assault" practices going on in California, Indiana, Texas, Montana, and this does not bode well. And remember, we have a president who thinks it is a good thing to "suspend the Constitution" to eliminate a "gridlock." --- QuickBBS 2.76 Ovr # Origin: Gun Control=Criminals & Gestapo vs. the Unarmed. (1:231/110) From _THE JUBILEE_, September/October 1993 (Vol. 6, No. 2): WACO: THE BIG LIE JUBILEE EXCLUSIVE By Linda D. Thompson Chairman, American Justice Federation Americans were lied to by the FBI and media throughout the Waco siege, beginning February 28, 1993 through the tragic end -- April 19, 1993. The lying, in itself, is a travesty, a blade through the heart of everything for which this great country stands. The ATF and FBI have no excuse. They lied, they knew they lied when they did it and they are still lying. Members of the media may claim they were deceived by the lies of the FBI or that they printed only what they were told. But therein lies the blame -- no one from the media questioned what they were told, investigated, dug a little deeper, or tried to ferret out any semblance of truth. And now, the federal agencies are covering up the massacre. The media, realizing the horror of what they have done, seem to have taken the position that they, too, must cover it up, hide the shame and the blame. Why was the ATF in Waco? Why did the ATF go to Mount Carmel? In the search warrant, the ATF claimed to have been looking for guns that were being converted to machine guns, but provided absolutely no proof or reliable information that there was any reason whatsoever to believe that illegal automatic weapons were being made at Mt. Carmel. On the day of the raid, ATF spokesman Jack Killoran, interviewed by telephone in Washington, D.C., by Linda Thompson in Indianapolis, Indiana, said that the search warrant the ATF agents were trying to serve was for "illegal machine guns and explosive devices." He also said that "since 1986, it is illegal for anyone to own a machine gun." It is NOT illegal to own a machine gun in the United States. A person who wants to own a machine gun need only pay a $200.00 tax and complete a registration form to legally own a machine gun. The ATF keeps the paperwork. So if the Branch Davidians owned an "illegal" machine gun, it meant that they had failed to pay a $200.00 tax. Surely no one in his right mind would believe that the failure to pay a $200.00 tax justifies a military assault on a house full of men, women and children. But the ATF had a pretty good idea of whether or not there were illegal weapons at Mt. Carmel. In July, 1992, the ATF had visited Hewitt Arms, a gun store in Waco, where the Branch Davidians had legally purchased most of their guns. They examined the records at the store. Since records existed, it is a pretty safe bet that not only were those weapons legally purchased, the ATF had copies of those records, too. Nonetheless, while the ATF was at Hewitt Arms, the owner, Henry McMahon, called David Koresh and told him that the ATF had a problem with him buying so many guns. Koresh told McMahon to "tell them to come on out." The ATF declines this offer. This inspection was not mentioned in the search warrant. In fact, the allegations supporting the ATF's "probable cause" to ask for a search warrant were so weak, the ATF had to pad the search warrant application by throwing in a lot of innuendo, information the source of which was more than eight months old and second hand, and references to child abuse and multiple wives. The ATF has no jurisdiction whatsoever over child abuse or polygamy, and certainly neither of these things, even if they had been true, would have given them any reason to go to Mt. Carmel to search for weapons violations. Even these allegations had already been proven false, twice. The source of these allegations of "child abuse" and sexual molestation of children was Marc Breault, a self-proclaimed "prophet" who had joined the Branch Davidians in 1987 and was kicked out in 1989 for attempting to take over the leadership with his grandiose claims. Marc Breault vowed revenge. For the next two and a half years, Breault made allegations, which grew more and more outrageous with the passing of time. He contacted agencies in Australia, Britain, and the United States, demanding that "something be done about the Branch Davidians" and alleging child abuse. Cult Awareness Network picked up Breault's allegations and began a campaign of their own. Cult Awareness Network (CAN) is a group, started by the daughter of the late Senator Leo Ryan (killed at Jonestown) that targets religious groups around the world for hate campaigns in the media. They always make the same allegations against each group they attack: "Perverted sex," "child abuse," and "brainwashing." It reads like a worn out script, -- repeated many times against various groups. Its headquarters was formerly in the B'Nai B'Rith building and it receives funding from the Anti-Defamation League. Not coincidentally, two socalled "cult experts," Margaret Singer and Louis Jocelyn West, always pop up in support of allegations by CAN, to be interviewed by the media lap dogs who never bother to check their credentials. Both Singer and West were involved in CIA experiments with LSD and mind control in the 60's and 70's. Another CAN expert, Galen Kelly, was recently convicted of kidnapping charges. Rick Ross, who claims to be a "cult deprogrammer," also works for CAN. He was advising the ATF on "cults" for at least a month before the raid. Yet, Rick Ross has no expertise in much of anything, except theft, for which he has a felony conviction. He was recently indicted for kidnapping. Another tired old tactic of CAN is to parade a "former cult member" before the TV cameras, to parrot the allegations of "child abuse" or "perverted sex." not coincidentally, these "former cult members" in every case, no matter which "cult" is under scrutiny, have a history of medical illness and have been "deprogrammed." "Deprogramming" is, in fact, brainwashing. It involves kidnapping a person, isolating them in a room with the "deprogrammer" who deprives them of food and sleep until their will is broken. It was CAN who had complained to Texas authorities that the Branch Davidians were "abusing children." Of course, the welfare department intruded into the Branch Davidian home, twice, to investigate these charges but found them to be baseless. Yet, the ATF relied upon these so-called "experts" and regurgitated these same, baseless allegations in the search warrant, and the media repeated the allegations over and over and over demonizing and dehumanizing the Branch Davidians. Not coincidentally, "demonizing" a target is a well-known propaganda technique. Much like what has happened here in the United States with the socalled "war on drugs" and the "evil drug lords." We have given up our rights -- for a Police State -- in the name of the "war on drugs." And it got us Waco! So why wouldn't the ATF and FBI expect this tactic of "demonizing" the target to work? We didn't disappoint them. Most of America sat glued to the TV set, believing every lie that was fed to them letting the Branch Davidians be tortured, day after day, because, of course, they were "perverted," they were a "cult," they were "not like us." But, long before the ATF brought out the search warrant, they already knew that the bulk of the allegations in the application were lies. For an agency that was supposedly looking for "machine guns and explosives," the ATF launched its assault with no ambulances or even so much as an explosive ordnance (bomb squad) expert on hand. Who Shot First? Examining the film footage of the initial assault, it is plain to see that the ATF arrived in full battle gear. All of the agents are dressed in full black SS uniforms or military camouflage fatigues (guess they thought there would be a forest inside the house...). Many were carrying sniper rifles and MP5 sub machine guns. Most of them carried baseball, canister, and pineapple grenades on their belts, and many of them carried knives in sheaths on their backs. Three helicopters, only one of them national guard, were also on hand. In one of the first _Associated Press_ (AP) wire stories to appear, John McLemore, a Channel 10, KWTXTV reporter from Waco said, "They came right in, parked right by the front door and made a frontal assault on the building." But by the next day, McLemore was quoted only as saying, "It sounded like a war zone, people were being hit, you could hear people screaming with the agony, the pain of it." The spin doctors had arrived to make certain that we heard only what we were supposed to hear and read only the "official truth." [Photograph captioned, "Federal Agents made turret holes and piles sandbags inside a barn behind the house at Mt. Carmel, where snipers positioned themselves to shoot Branch Davidians who ventured out of the house. The FBI has confirmed that all 52 members of the FBI Hostage Rescue Team were in Idaho during the Weaver massacre and at Waco during the 51 day siege on the Branch Davidians."] The film that was released to the public shows two teams of four ATF agents scaling a ladder onto the roof. ATF Agent Ted Royster was quoted as saying that these teams were supposed to secure the roof within 22 seconds of arrival. We can presume that this footage, that shows these teams going up on the roof, was the footage of the first 22 seconds of the raid. As one team arrives at the window, three of the agents go into a room of the house through a window. No one is shooting at these agents at any time. A lot of shooting can be heard from the ground where the rest of the ATF agents are. There is a small cut in the film as the agents climb into the window. One must wonder why this cut was made. The fourth agent on the roof waits outside on the roof until these three agents are through the window and inside the house. There is a "glitch" -- a missing piece of film -- at this point. Having examined the film, it is a poorly edited segment and there is a noticeable "jump" as the ATF agent on the roof moves from a prone position on the roof, to position himself at the window. The reason for the glitch isn't readily obvious, but investigation tells the story. All of the Branch Davidians interviewed by this writer have said that a helicopter fired down into the roof of the house. Dick Deguerrin, the attorney who was allowed inside Mt. Carmel during the siege, is reported in _Soldier of Fortune_ magazine, October, 1993 issue, to have said that he saw the upstairs rooms and they looked like swiss cheese from the overhead gunfire. In the "911 Tapes" released to the public, David Koresh and Wayne Martin can be heard talking about the helicopter shooting down at them, saying, "Here it comes again, the helicopter's coming again." Listening to the background noise on the film footage just before and after the "glitch" appears, a helicopter can quite clearly be heard as it gets closer and closer, then overhead. Then the cut in the film. The cut was made to cut out the sound of the helicopter firing down into the roof, very likely firing down not only on the Branch Davidians inside the house (where the helicopter gunfire killed a nursing mother and two other people), but also down on the three ATF agents now inside the house. After this cut in the film, the fourth ATF agent is seen at the window, his hand extended inside the window as if he has just tossed a grenade and there is a corresponding "boom" sound shortly afterwards, consistent with a concussion grenade. He then pulls back the curtain at the window and appears to fire into the room, twice, with his MP5 sub machine gun. At this point, someone inside the room begins to fire through the walls and holes appear in the walls. One bullet strikes the agent on the roof in the helmet causing him to fall, grabbing his head. He then quickly recovers and bolts down the ladder to the ground below. His only injury comes when he misses the ladder rung and injures his knee. Four agents were killed that day. The ATF released a diagram, depicting how the three agents who went in the window were killed. This appeared in the March 3, _Dallas Morning News_. In the April 5 edition of _Newsweek_, an anonymous agent was quoted as saying that agents had been killed by other agents' fire. Shortly afterwards, an ATF Agent named Keith Constantino appeared on CNN and _Current Affair_ to tell a tale that he was one of the three agents who went up on the roof (he never mentions there were actually four agents). He then claims that he was one of the three agents who went in that room. He claims that on entering the room, he and the other two agents took fire from two sides, that he ran out of bullets, jumped out the window, and down the ladder and that the other two agents were killed. This story is easily shown to be a lie by watching the video, _Waco, the Big Lie_, because there are never any bullets fired inside that room until the fourth agent on the roof throws a grenade into the room and it is the fourth agent who gets down the ladder and he never goes into the room at all. Since the tape, _Waco, the Big Lie_, was released, however, the ATF is now claiming that none of the agents who went in the room died (they are saying that none of the four dead agents went into the window, so presumably, the ATF is now claiming these same four men were killed elsewhere). The ATF claims that during the "glitch" in the film, all the agents who went into the room were fired upon and got out the window and down the ladder and the man we see on the roof is merely providing cover as the other three get down the ladder. Again, this is easily proven to be a lie because up until the point that the fourth agent is shown on the roof, no shots are fired inside that room, so he isn't providing "cover" for anything. Additionally, listening to the helicopter sounds in the background, it is clear that the "glitch" is no more than a very short duration, perhaps a minute. BODY GUARDS Three of the four ATF agents who were killed that day were Clinton's bodyguards during his presidential campaign. The press failed to give this much attention, but it was Clinton himself who called attention to the fact. In Clinton's address to the Treasury on March 18, in the Cash Room, he said: "My prayers, and I'm sure yours, are still with the families of all four of the Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agents who were killed in Waco: Todd McKeehan and Conway Le Bleu of New Orleans; Steve Willis of Houston, and Robert Williams from my hometown of Little Rock. Three of those four were assigned to my security during the course of the primary or general election." The United States "Pravda" Machine Proving that the media was part and parcel of the fullblown lying and cover-up at this stage of the siege, the only segment of the initial raid film footage that was broadcast nationally showed just the shots of the agents entering the window, immediately followed by a very shortened version showing only the shots being fired from inside the house and the fourth agent falling down on the roof (not showing that he went down the ladder) giving the impression he had been killed, along with a voice over that said the ATF met a "hail of gunfire" from the Branch Davidians. The story grew and grew, overnight. By the next day, March 1, the ATF was claiming to have been "out-gunned," and that the Branch Davidians "were waiting for us." Also by the next day, the newspapers and television were spreading more of the "official truth." AP reported that "the cult's fortress, called Mount Carmel, is dominated by a tower with lookout windows facing in all directions. Guards reportedly patrol the 77acre grounds at night." A cult fortress. What a picture that paints of what was, in fact, a wooden frame house, handmade, that didn't even have insulation, only a masonite outer wall. Later that day, the propaganda was in full bloom: "To tell you the truth, the thing that went through my mind is you've got a cult like Jonestown," Ralph Strother, an aide in the district attorney's office was quoted as saying in an Associated Press article. As the siege continued, we heard various claims from the FBI that the ATF had "really" raided the Branch Davidians because they had heard the "Branch Davidians were planning a mass suicide like Jonestown." Even if these outlandish claims were true, the ATF has no jurisdiction over religion or planned suicides. On March 7th, six days into the siege, 'Face the Nation' interviewed an ATF spokesman who replied, "no comment," when asked if any of the Branch Davidians had a gundealer license (FFL license) or a machine gun license. This was followed up quickly by a network ad for a "news" show coming up "next week" having to do with "the dangerous number of people getting FFL's and how alarmingly easy it is to get one." The FBI later claimed that the Branch Davidians had been "planning to invade Waco." There was never so much as an iota of proof or substantiation for this claim presented, nor would the FBI have any jurisdiction over what would simply be a state crime if the Branch Davidians had, in fact, been planning to "invade Waco." Later, to justify the abuses heaped upon the Branch Davidians, the FBI claimed that a (seriously wounded) David Koresh was holding 89 adults and 17 children as "hostages" and that cutting off all utilities, shining bright stadium and spotlights on the house 24 hours a day, and blaring sounds such as a dentist drill, rabbits being slaughtered, and Tibetan monk chants at the house were merely "negotiation techniques." Even though it was the dead of winter and the FBI had cut off all the utilities to the house, Bob Ricks was quoted repeatedly saying, "Mr. Koresh has always kept his apartment fully air conditioned and heated. It's our understanding that he probably is the only one in the compound that is allowed that privilege," Ricks said. One of the most overlooked stories that occurred on the first day of the siege surrounds Mike Schroeder, a Branch Davidian who had gone to work the morning of the raid, only to learn of the raid at work. On foot and unarmed, he left work, walking back to Mt. Carmel. He passed a roadblock of State troopers and spoke to them. He got as far as the Perry farm, some three hundred yards from the property line at Mt. Carmel, where he was shot seven times and his body left for days. Another man who had been with him was arrested and had told the ATF that Mike Schroeder was left in the field, shot. This information appears in the indictment paperwork for Norman Allison, proving the ATF knew Mike Schroeder was shot on February 28 but left his body there. No one bothered to collect Mike's body or inform his family for several days. In the meantime, the FBI released a story to the press claiming that three men had tried to "shoot their way out" of Mt. Carmel and that one of them had been shot. More lies. But the truth was, a young man was shot down in cold blood and he wasn't even near the Mt. Carmel property, merely in the same neighborhood. And yes, this was the United States of America, in Texas, not Somalia or Afghanistan. FBI Confirms Weaver Snipers were also in Waco. The FBI has confirmed that both the sniper team and the assault team that were in Idaho during the siege on the Weaver family were sent to Mt. Carmel in Waco, Texas. Bill Cotter, FBI public affairs officer in Washington, D.C., confirmed that an advance team of agents from the Hostage Rescue Team of the FBI, headed by Dick Rogers, was sent to Waco, Texas on March 1, the day after the initial raid. This team was later joined by the entire 52 man contingent of FBI Hostage Rescue Team members and another 90 FBI SWAT team members from offices all over the United States. There are 52 members of the Hostage Rescue Team, based out of Washington, D.C. The HRT is divided into two teams, either of which can perform the same functions. The Hostage Rescue Teams, based out of Washington, D.C., has 26 members per team. Each of these teams has an assault squad and a sniper squad. The HRT has a wealth of military equipment, including C5A cargo planes, tanks, and helicopters. Two of the black, unmarked helicopters, and two dark, nearly black, flat green helicopters, that were flown almost continuously over the Mt. Carmel center, belong to the Hostage Rescue Team. All 52 members of the Hostage Rescue Team were in Idaho during the Ruby Creek Massacre and during the Waco Massacre. During the Weaver trial Gerry Spence, Randy Weaver's attorney, skillfully cross examined members of the HRT, including Dick Rogers, Commander of the HRT, and Lon Horiuchi, unmasking the cowboy cop mentality, incompetence and brutality of the FBI HRT. Readers may remember from the Weaver trial that Lon Horiuchi, an HRT sniper squad member, shot and killed Vicki Weaver as she stood, holding her 10-month-old baby in her arms in the doorway of her home. In Waco, the HRT was joined by another 90 members of FBI SWAT teams, highly trained tactical assault units, from all over the country, according to Bill Cotter. One of these units was the FBI SWAT team from Alabama. Ann Richards, Traitor of Texas Ann Richards authorized the use of the U.S. Army tanks, helicopters, jeeps, humvees, and other equipment that was used against the Branch Davidians. Federal Law, Title 18, United States Code, Section 1385, absolutely forbids the use of military against United States citizens and provides for a term of imprisonment and a fine: "Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisonment not more than two years, or both." 18 U.S.C. Section 1385. To get around this law, the ATF and Ann Richards both claimed initially that the tanks were authorized under another law, the Drug Interdiction Act, Title 32, United States Code, Section 112, which allows the use of National Guard equipment for drug interdiction activities. Relevant portions of that law are shown below. It is plain that even when national guard are authorized to be used as "law enforcement," it can only be when they are not called up by federal authorities, and only under the very strict limitations of a plan, written in advance, and they must be requested by the governor of the state. This plan must be drafted once each year and submitted to the Secretary of Defense. "(b) Plan requirements. A plan referred to in subsection (a) shall (1) specify how personnel of the National Guard of that State are to be used in drug interdiction and counterdrug activities; (2) certify that those operations are to be conducted at a time when the personnel involved are not in Federal service; and (3) certify that participation by National Guard personnel in those operations is service in addition to annual training required under section 502 of this title. "(c) Examination of plan. (1) Before funds are provided to the Governor of a State under this section, the Secretary of Defense shall examine the adequacy of the plan submitted by the Governor under subsection (b). (2) Except as provided in paragraph (3), the Secretary shall carry out paragraph (1) in consultation with the Director of National Drug Control Policy. "(d) Statutory construction. Nothing in this section shall be construed as a limitation of the authority of any unit of the National Guard of a State, when such unit is not in Federal service, to perform law enforcement functions authorized to be performed by the National Guard by the laws of the State concerned. . . . "(f) Definitions. For purposes of this section: (1) The term "counterdrug activities" includes the use of National Guard personnel, while not in Federal service, in any law enforcement activities authorized by State and local law and requested by the Governor." 32 U.S.C. Section 112 (1992), Drug interdiction and counterdrug activities. So, no matter who explains it or how it is explained, the tanks that were brought into Mt. Carmel were brought there illegally, remained there illegally for 51 days, and were finally used to murder what remained of the Branch Davidians on April 19, 1993. In a letter to one of the thousands of people who have written to Ann Richards to protest the invasion of Texas by federal agents, Ann Richards replied that she had "no control over federal government agents." Someone needs to educate Ann Richards (and the governor of Idaho, too) about State sovereignty and the right of a governor to throw federal agents out of the state. Too little, too late, perhaps, but it isn't too late to wake up the governors of the other 48 states, and the state police, too. [end of article] ___________________________________________________________________________ Linda Thompson is an attorney in Indianapolis, Indiana. She is also the Chairman of the American Justice Federation and responsible for the tape, "Waco, the Big Lie," which shows clear proof that the government murdered the Branch Davidians, using a flamethrowing tank to set the fire on April 19, 1993. To order the video, "WACO, THE BIG LIE" from the AMERICAN JUSTICE FEDERATION: Visa/Mastercard orders call: 1-800-758-0308; Or send your order to: WACO, P.O. Box 14, Beech Grove, IN 46107. $19.95 + $3.00 shipping and handling. ___________________________________________________________________________ Proclaiming Liberty Throughout all the Land ~THE JUBILEE~ P.O. Box 310 Midpines, California 95345 Send $2.50 for a sample issue. FAX YOUR FACTS TO US! (209) 966-6329 From: ad626@yfn.ysu.edu (Steve Crocker) Subject: Linda Thompson Charges Critics With "Disinformation" Date: 15 Oct 1993 10:52:47 GMT Message #8006 "AEN Criminal Politics, Government Crimes" Date: 14-Oct-93 06:39 From: Linda Thompson To: All Subj: Waco Disinformation Campaign (1 of 2 Posts) There is most definitely now an organized campaign of federal operatives and disinformation specialists showing themselves by attacking me (with false statements) and attacking the tape (with false claims). Specifically, the attacks on me and the tape (and my responses) are: (1) The flame coming from the flame-thrower isn't flame, it's (1) a piece of cardboard or something; (2) a piece of insulation; (3) glare from the gas, or (4) the "flames" were "added to" the footage by some sort of video enhancement or trickery. Most frequently, I am seeing self-proclaimed "tape experts" who claim to have "analyzed" the tape to come up with these amazing "revelations." The efforts to make the above claim(s) have "analyzed" another piece of tape, NOT the pieces that plainly show the flame throwing tank. Secondly, *NO* analysis of the segment on the Waco, the Big Lie tape can be from anything but the original, period. And not even one of these so-called "analyses" has *EVER* said there was any evidence of tampering, not once, ever. The only claims of "tampering" have come from people who speculate what "could be" done with video trickery. All examinations have shown there is no tampering. Tampering would be visible even on a copy and believe me, plenty have people have tried to find such proof and NO ONE has -- because they can't. There was no tampering. I didn't even have it "enhanced" to make it clearer so that there would be absolutely no possibility that I could be accused of "tampering" with the footage. What you see is exactly what was broadcast on television. One of the most obnoxious of these self-proclaimed-also-ran experts is a fellow who found a piece of footage (I have not seen) that shows the tank at a different hole, shooting flame. He is intent on proving the tank in my tape is *not* shooting flames, while simultaneously insisting his footage shows a flame throwing tank at the front door. This sounds screwy, right? But the reason is simple enough: He wants "his" footage to be "the" only source for this information because he is trying to use "his" footage to bargain himself out of a felony charge in Massachusetts. He is now claiming he has "analyzed" my footage and it isn't flame. There was not just one time this tank went in and out of holes in the house, though, there were several times. And other tanks went in the same hole. This was part of the smokescreen the feds intentionally created. Two of the times the particular tank that was equipped with a flame-thrower goes in the hole, fire can be seen; other times, no fire can be seen. There is another scene where a tank backs out, pulling out debris with it. There is another scene where only some smoke can be seen around the end of the tank, no flame. The house had no insulation, so this cannot be insulation; gas does not produce glare that drips or flickers, as this obvious flame does; and there is nothing else that produces flame other than fire. Anyone who has ever seen a fire can tell it's fire, purely and simply. So all these so-called "analysis" claims are bogus. Period. (2) The CEV can't shoot flames, so the flame-throwing footage can't be showing a flame-thrower. The tank shooting the flames is not a CEV. It is an M67A2 tank, that has had a boom added to it to disguise it to LOOK like a CEV. The ONLY purpose of an M67A tank is shooting fire, using napalm or jellied gasoline. (3) The scene in Waco, the Big Lie, was "more than 45 minutes before the fire started" and "the fire didn't start in that part of the house." (Department of Justice makes these claims in their Waco investigation report, responding to questions about the tape, Waco, the Big Lie). Both statements are false. The scene is only a few minutes before the news media *CLAIMED* the fire started at the window. However, the camera shots were held tight, so that all we could see on TV was the window on fire. What was *NOT* shown was that the entire back of the house at the wall where that tank had been was already on fire and burning simultaneously. This can be seen in overhead shots that were not shown at the time the fire was broadcast live. (4) "Linda Thompson has no military background" or "Linda Thompson has a military background -- highschool ROTC." (Both statements were made by Bo Gritz, the first at Loudenville, Ohio and the second statement, he recently put in his newsletter. AFTER I talked to him about these claims he continues to make them). I have never been in ROTC of any kind. I was active Army from 1974 through 1978 and last served as the assistant to the Commanding General of Allied Forces Central Europe, where I held a CTS/ATOMAL clearance and revised the Nato Warplans Manuals. I was also in the USAR from 1978-1987. I received an ARCOM for my work in writing the history of various military operations, including refugee operations after Saigon fell and JTX operations throughout the United States; GCMDL, Humanitarian Service, Vietnam Service (time period/not in-country), expert in .45, .38, M16, hand grenades; and the German Bronze lanyard (Schutzensnuer). My AFQT is 157; my MOS's were Steno and Senior Personnel Sergeant (SFC/E-7); I completed the Infantry Officer pre-commission course, the AG Officer basic Course and was the second woman assigned to an Airborne-D, TOE STRAF unit. (5) "There is no proof that 3 of the 4 men killed at Mt. Carmel were Clinton's bodyguards as Linda Thompson claims in the tape, Waco, the Big Lie." (This ridiculous statement and two paragraphs claiming I failed to "research" this point and using it to claim I was spreading disinformation made a laughing stock out of Criminal Politics Magazine when they learned the information was public knowledge.) President Clinton himself stated that these three men had been members of his presidential security during his campaign and named the men by name in his address to the Treasury on March 18, 1993, in the Cash Room at 11:38 a.m. A copy of this speech by the President, which was publicly broadcast, is available on Compuserve in the Whitehouse forum files area. Bo Gritz, a few of his supporters including two radio personalities who, for the time being, shall remain nameless but they know who they are, Gary Hunt (the ATF operative) and Criminal Politics magazine (citing Gritz as the source), have been the primary proponents of this disinformation (and gutless liars who send unsigned faxes across the UN-Patriot Fax Network.) The one thing about being able to see this flame-thrower footage yourself is that you can see the flames yourself, know what you are seeing, and then, decide whether you believe your own eyes or what someone else tells you. And know, by their words and deeds, who the disinformation agents are. Numerous experts have examined the flame thrower footage and conclude it is fire, as has everyone who has no vested interest in trying to spread disinformation. Even the Department of Justice wasn't stupid enough to try to claim the flame-throwing tank footage doesn't show fire and you know they would have if they could have. Waco, the Big Lie, is 32 minutes long. It is available from: Waco PO Box 14 Beech Grove, IN 46107 or Visa/MC 1-800-758-0308. $19.95 + 3.00 shipping/handling

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