(7044) Sat 6 Apr 91 12:08a
By: Jim Speiser
Re: Re: (none)
St: Sent Reply chain 7043 7163
I'm slowly getting more and more turned off by this case. Your message
didn't help too much.
First of all, there's this:
> They include one fireman (one of several who saw it that day) and three
> civilians. These witnesses are not looking for publicity and will not
> let Gordon release their names to the media for fear of ridicule.
I am going to check this with Cindy Bowles, who helped produce the
segment for Unsolved Mysteries, but I believe at least two of the
firemen did use their real names on that segment. And they certainly
didn't take great pains to disguise themselves on a national TV
broadcast. Somehow I think the people of Kecksburg, the people who are
most apt to ridicule them, know who they are.
> Never mind that scientist Ivan T. Sanderson traced the flight >
pattern of the UFO and discovered it made a controlled 25-degree turn in
> Ohio and headed for Pennsylvania (Fate Magazine, arch 1966). Not a >
typical movement of a satellite crashing back to Earth.
As I understand it, (and PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong), such
calculations are made from a composite of eyewitness accounts. I'm
sorry, but I don't see how a conclusion can be drawn from a bunch of
people saying, "it went that-a-way." The margin of error for such
observations would be right around 25 degrees, I think.
> so states before crash-landing. But he failed to mention that Sanderson
> estimated the object's speed at 1062.5 miles per hour. PASU did a
Do you have any information on just how Sanderson was able to arrive at
this "estimate"? Did he aim a radar gun at the thing or what?
> concluded that at most the object was moving at a speed of 5257 miles
> per hour. Neither estimate comes anywhere near the minimum speed for a
> meteor which is approximately 27,000 miles per hour. Witnesses to the
Where does that figure come from? I'm not challenging it, I'm genuinely
curious if that's an accurate figure - if so, it impacts some other
famous cases. If not...then of course it doesn't belong here. (I wish I
had been paying attention in Meteoritics 101!)
> Anyhow, why would numerous local fire companies, the
> Pennsylvania State Police, the U.S. Air Force, the 662nd Radar Squadron,
> and various other military officials gravitate to the village of
> Kecksburg to recover a rock from space? What happened to this alleged
> meteor? Why did it have to be removed that night? And why all the
I remember seeing a bright bolide around 1966. My parents and I (I was
10) were coming out of Manero's restaurant in Old Greenwich, CT, when my
mother looked up and froze. I followed her gaze and saw a multi-colored
object arcing down towards the earth, breaking up as it fell. My mother
immediately said, "Its a UFO!" I calmly replied, "No, Mom, its a
meteor." (At 10, I was probably the youngest subscriber to NICAP's UFO
Investigator!) As we drove home, we were passed by various fire and
emergency vehicles, headed north towards the apparent ground zero. It
looked very much as if the object had fallen on North Greenwich. Turned
out later, it had fallen somewhere near the Canadian border, 600 miles
north. This is a common occurence with bolide sightings - they often do
seem to be headed towards your backyard.
> was stationed at Lockborne Air Base near Columbus, Ohio, who claims the
> base was put on 'red alert' during the early morning hours of December
Can't this be verified somehow?
> Several days later, a witness reported seeing the object at
> Wright-Patterson. Reporter Sharon Santus writing in the Greensburg
> Tribune-Review (Dec. 9, 1990) writes:
As Young says, where WERE these people in 1965?
+ Another witness, Ohio truck driver John Cummings (not his real name),
+ said he actually saw the object inside a building at Wright-Patterson
+ on Dec. 12, 1965, just three days after the alleged landing.
+Cummings, who made deliveries for a Dayton-area building-supply company,
+said a high-ranking military officer arrived at the firm on Dec. 11,
+1965, and ordered a special radiation-, moisture-resistant brick for
+construction of a protective room inside a building at Wright-Patterson.
+Cummings said he and a cousin delivered 6,500 bricks to Wright-Patterson
+the next day after being instructed by their boss not to discuss
+anything they might observe at the compound.
+'We were unloading the bricks onto pallets and me and my cousin decided
+to sneak inside to see what all the secrecy was about,' Cummings said.
+'Guards immediately ordered us out ... but not before we saw it.'
Come on, Scott. An anonymous truck driver and his cousin claim to have
snuck into see a recovery operation shrouded in the secrecy of "the most
highly classified project in the US - higher than the H-bomb" (Wilbur
Smith). You're buying this? I've read your work in the past, you're a
more responsible researcher than that.
So what do we have? A few scattered eyewitness reports, dubious
measurements by a scientist of dubious credentials (isn't Sanderson the
guy who claims to have seen dinosaurs and giant bats in Africa?), a
truck driver and his cousin saying, "yeah, we seen it too", and a couple
of firemen who try to protect their identity by going full-face on
national TV. I was impressed with this case before, and I am still
impressed with the quality of work Stan Gordon has done in general, but
I hope you guys can put up a better defense to Young's article than the
In the spirit of constructive debate,
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