[ref001] The Deaver-Till Debate [ref002] The Deaver-Till Debate On March 25-28, Farrell Ti

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[ref001] The Deaver-Till Debate [ref002] The Deaver-Till Debate On March 25-28, Farrell Till met Mac Deaver, a Church-of-Christ preacher from Austin, Texas, in oral debate on the campus of Southwest Texas State University in San Marcos. The issue was Bible morality. Deaver affirmed that none of the acts done or authorized by the God of the Bible were moral atrocities; Till affirmed that some acts attributed to the God of the Bible were actual atrocities that disprove the doctrine of divine inspiration. At no time during the two nights he was affirming did Deaver examine any of the more infamous Bible events, such as the massacre of the Midianites and Amalekites, to show that they should not be considered atrocities. The debaters having agreed to exchange five questions prior to each night's session, Deaver immediately tried to put Till on the defensive by discussing arbitrarily conceived inconsistencies in Till's answers to the first set of questions. Specific cases of questionable moral conduct on Yahweh's part had to be introduced by Till. The questions directed to Till had been designed to trap him in contradiction concerning his position on objective or absolute morality. In his answers, Till had rejected Deaver's concept of objective morality but had nevertheless recognized the existence of moral standards that man has an obligation to respect. Deaver perceived this as a contradiction and spent much of his time from then on pressing the point. Till's response to this was to show that determination of good and bad has to be an intellectual process. He cited [ref003]Romans 2:14, where it was said that the Gentiles who "have not the law" (revealed objective morality) "do by nature the things of the law," to show that even the Bible recognizes that people can by natural processes discover moral principles without having them divinely revealed. By the third night when he assumed the affirmative, Till had forced Deaver to take the position that God can do anything, even kill babies, and it would be morally right. Till urged the audience to consider the consequences of that position. Rather than to think of the Midianite and Amalekite massacres in vague, abstract terms, he asked that these events be considered in the specific, concrete terms of what had to occur if both events happened as recorded in the Bible. Thirty-two thousand Midianite virgin girls were kept alive for the sexual whims of their captives; this meant that 32,000 specific cases of sexual abuse of children had to occur. It also implied that about 32,000 specific male children were killed to comply to Moses' order to "kill every male among the little ones" ([ref004]Num. 31:17). The Amalekite massacre, if it happened according to the Bible account, meant that there were hundreds or even thousands of specific incidents in which specific Amalekite women, children, and babies were run through by Israelite swords. Till urged Deaver to tell the audience if each of these specific killings of women and children was a "good thing." Deaver would not answer the question directly, but the substance of what he said in response indicated that he thought these deeds were all expressions of God's perfect morality. Till then pressed the audience to bear in mind that Deaver's position forces one to believe that killing babies is a morally good act. In the main, Deaver's only defense of this charge was ridicule. "God didn't do things quite the way that Farrell Till would have," he chided Till, "so therefore they were wrong." Audio ($15) and video ($30) tapes of the debate can be ordered from Thomas Gardner, 2229 Lotus, Ft. Worth, TX 76111 (Tel. 817-838-0828). Both men have agreed to debate the same subject at a later date. FREE SUBSCRIPTION: A free one-year subscription to _The_Skeptical_ Review_ can be obtained by emailing [ref005]Jftill@aol.com or by writing to P.O. Box 717, Canton, IL 61520-0717. File contributed by [ref006]Farrell Till; page maintained by the [ref007]Internet Infidels. [ref008]Email: [ref009]infidel@freethought.tamu.edu [ref010]JL [ref011]Copyright © 1995 [ref012]Internet Infidels. HTML Reproduction Rights Reserved. [ref001] mailto:jlowder@atheist.tamu.edu [ref002] [ref003] http://www.calvin.edu/cgi-bin/bible?Romans+2:14 [ref004] http://www.calvin.edu/cgi-bin/bible?Numbers+31:17 [ref005] mailto:Jftill@aol.com [ref006] mailto:Jftill@aol.com [ref007] /infidel.html [ref008] mailto:infidel@freethought.tamu.edu [ref009] /cgi-bin/mail?infidel [ref010] http://atheist.tamu.edu/~jlowder/ [ref011] /copyright.html [ref012] /infidels/


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