Subject: Scientologists pay me a visit! Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 01:25:07 GMT Two scientolog

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Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology From: grady@netcom.com (Grady Ward) Subject: Scientologists pay me a visit! Message-ID: Organization: +1 707 826 7715 grady@netcom.com Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 01:25:07 GMT Two scientologists paid a visit to our house today in Arcata. Ray and Jack Keras(?) identified themselves as Scientologists to my wife who immediately asked them to leave the property. Jack -- who had driven up from San Francisco did the talking while Ray stayed out of sight around the corner of the house. They stayed at the door and repeated that they wanted to talk to me so I called 911. It took about fifteen minutes for the police to arrive and by that time the two scientologists left. [My wife first saw Ray as he walked back to his car with Jack.] (Each came in separate cars; the SF guy (Jack) came in a late model dark green Honda; Ray left in a 70's El Camino.) While I was making the report to Officer Bob Murphy, Ray returned and talked to the officer for a few minutes (I went back into the house at this time so as to avoid being IDed by Ray). Ray turned out to be the local airport manager.) Since they didn't leave when asked I'm filing a misdemeanor trespassing charge against them and, since they identified themselves as from the Church of Scientology, I am filing for a restraining order against the entire criminal cult as soon as the the district attorney's office opens Monday. I also got many high quality photos of both people and their automobiles. The local Officer Murphy was a little fuzzy about scientology so I gave him a photocopy of the TIME article "Thriving Cult of Greed and Power" to help educate him. I'm flattered that some OSA guy would make the 5 hour auto trip from SF to tell me about their criminal cult, but I'm afraid a copy of the restraining order will take a lot less time to be faxed and send via certified mail to Kobrin and the other principals. -- Grady Ward +1 707 826 7715 (voice / 24hr FAX) grady@netcom.com ---------------------- From: Chris Miller Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: Re: Scientologists pay me a visit! Date: 15 Apr 1995 07:35:14 GMT Organization: Lightside, Inc. Lines: 122 Message-ID: <3mnsvi$kb9@covina.lightside.com> References: <3mnmjk$p39@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> NNTP-Posting-Host: user41.lightside.com wbarwell@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (William Barwell) wrote: > > In article , Grady Ward wrote: > >Two scientologists paid a visit to our house today in Arcata. > >Ray and Jack Keras(?) identified themselves as Scientologists > >to my wife who immediately asked them to leave the property. > > > >Jack -- who had driven up from San Francisco did the talking > >while Ray stayed out of sight around the corner of the house. > > > >They stayed at the door and repeated that they wanted to talk > >to me so I called 911. > > I hope they take rejection well. > Wonder what they wanted to spew about? > > > > > >It took about fifteen minutes for the police to arrive and > >by that time the two scientologists left. [My wife first > >saw Ray as he walked back to his car with Jack.] > > > >(Each came in separate cars; the SF guy (Jack) came in a late > >model dark green Honda; Ray left in a 70's El Camino.) > > > > It takes two big brave Stupidologists in two old cars to do these things? > > >While I was making the report to Officer Bob Murphy, Ray > >returned and talked to the officer for a few minutes > >(I went back into the house at this time so as to > >avoid being IDed by Ray). Ray turned out to be the local > >airport manager.) > > > Silly bozos. > > > >Since they didn't leave when asked I'm filing a misdemeanor > >trespassing charge against them and, since they identified > >themselves as from the Church of Scientology, I am filing > >for a restraining order against the entire criminal cult > >as soon as the the district attorney's office opens Monday. > > > Good for you. > > > >I also got many high quality photos of both people and their > >automobiles. > > > >The local Officer Murphy was a little fuzzy about scientology > >so I gave him a photocopy of the TIME article "Thriving Cult > >of Greed and Power" to help educate him. > > > > > >I'm flattered that some OSA guy would make the 5 hour auto > >trip from SF to tell me about their criminal cult, but I'm > >afraid a copy of the restraining order will take a lot > >less time to be faxed and send via certified mail to Kobrin > >and the other principals. > > > I could not find Jack, but Ray was located in Arcata and I asked him what happened. What follows is his version of what occurred: Jack, a Scientologist from San Francisco apparently wanted to discuss matters connected with Internet with Grady Ward and to try and clear the air with him. Jack looked up the names of Scientologists in Arcata where Grady lives and found Ray, who has lived there for many years. Jack asked Ray to accompany him to visit Grady to try and calmly discuss the situation with him. They went to Grady's house but were met with hostility from Mrs. Ward who could not open the door nor would she get Grady to come to the door so that Jack and Ray could talk with him. Ray and Jack let Mrs. Ward know that they just wanted to talk. Jack, who did the talking, identified himself to Mrs. Ward and stated that he was a Scientologist who merely wanted to discuss the Internet with Grady. She was still upset and said she was going to call 911 for the police. She made this threat several times (still without opening the door) while Jack tried to explain that he meant them no harm and wished to talk. Ray and Jack were told by Mrs. Ward to get off the property which they did. Ray and Jack didn't know if they should wait for the police or wait to see if Grady would finally come out so they waited on the sidewalk. Grady never came out and the police didn't arrive, so after about 10 minutes, they left. Jack drove back to San Francisco. Ray went back to Grady's street and saw Grady talking with a police officer. Ray saw Grady motioning for Ray to come over, so Ray stopped his car and went over to explain that he and Jack had simply wanted to talk with Grady. Upon seeing Ray come over however, Grady excitedly told the police officer that Ray had now identified him and he dashed back into his house, leaving Ray and Mrs. Ward to talk with the police officer. Ray explained the situation to the police officer i.e. that he had been asked by Jack, who he had just met, to accompany him to see Grady so that he could rationally discuss the situation concerning Internet with him. Ray left the police officer his business card and that was about all that happened. The police officer was satisfied that nothing untoward was happening and Mrs. Ward seemed to have calmed down. Grady would not discuss the matter in person. Ray assured me that he and Jack were going to see Grady to try and improve relations with him. I find it ludicrous that such a big advocate of the first amendment like Grady would act like a scared rabbit and hide behind his wife when someone comes to his door to have a rational discussion. I have sent the police officer concerned a copy of What is Scientology so that he can have the correct information on the Church. Chris Miller ---------------------------- Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology From: grady@netcom.com (Grady Ward) Subject: Re: Scientologists pay me a visit! Message-ID: Organization: +1 707 826 7715 grady@netcom.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <3mnmjk$p39@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> <3mnsvi$kb9@covina.lightside.com> Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 15:23:24 GMT Chris Miller (cmiller@covina.lightside.com) wrote: : Jack, a Scientologist from San Francisco apparently wanted to : discuss matters connected with Internet with Grady Ward and to try and : clear the air with him. Jack looked up the names of Scientologists So -- why didn't they *call* first? Or better, post to Usenet for all to see? : in Arcata where Grady lives and found Ray, who has lived there for : many years. Jack asked Ray to accompany him to visit Grady to try : and calmly discuss the situation with him. Read: gather intelligence. Does Jack care to invite me to his OSA hideout with my camera crew? I'm sure we can have a nice quiet long talk. : They went to Grady's house but were met with hostility from Mrs. : Ward who could not open the door nor would she get Grady to come to : the door so that Jack and Ray could talk with him. Ray and Jack let : Mrs. Ward know that they just wanted to talk. : Jack, who did the talking, identified himself to Mrs. Ward and : stated that he was a Scientologist who merely wanted to discuss the : Internet with Grady. She was still upset and said she was going to She said "Leave the property or we will call the police." The scientologists didn't leave, so I called the police. As Hubbard would say "even a fool can understand that." : call 911 for the police. She made this threat several times (still : without opening the door) while Jack tried to explain that he meant : them no harm and wished to talk. Ray and Jack were told by Mrs. : Ward to get off the property which they did. They finally sauntered off *after* I had to call the police because of the trespass. Those scientologists committed a crime. : Ray went back to Grady's street and saw Grady talking with a : police officer. Ray saw Grady motioning for Ray to come over, so I IDed the car and driver to Officer Murphy. I have no idea why Ray came back. Bad move I'd say since we now have his positive ID. : Ray stopped his car and went over to explain that he and Jack had : simply wanted to talk with Grady. Upon seeing Ray come over however, : Grady excitedly told the police officer that Ray had now identified I want to deny the scientologists as intell as possible. : him and he dashed back into his house, leaving Ray and Mrs. Ward to : talk with the police officer. : Ray explained the situation to the police officer i.e. that he : had been asked by Jack, who he had just met, to accompany him to see : Grady so that he could rationally discuss the situation concerning : Internet with him. Ray left the police officer his business card and Does Ray normally visit strangers at their home without an appointment? And then commit the crime of trespass by not *immediately* leaving the property when demanded? A very bad tactical error. And who asked Jack to visit me? Is he an official criminal cult representative? What is his last name and address? What is *your* name, address and telephone number? The officer may want to talk to you. : that was about all that happened. The police officer was satisfied : that nothing untoward was happening and Mrs. Ward seemed to have I have a case number that the officer wrote up describing the incident. Members of the criminal cult will not get away with crimes in our community. : calmed down. Grady would not discuss the matter in person. Denying intell. What part of "no" don't you understand? I will be glad to visit a SF org with a camera crew. When's our appointment? : Ray assured me that he and Jack were going to see Grady to try : and improve relations with him. Yeah, right. What is both their full names and addresses and scientology affiliation? What is yours? : : I find it ludicrous that such a big advocate of the first amendment : like Grady would act like a scared rabbit and hide behind his wife : when someone comes to his door to have a rational discussion. OK. What is your address and phone number, Jack's full name, address, phone number and scientology hat and org. Why did Jack and Ray not leave when my wife demanded it? If I am such a "scared rabbit", why would I offer to come *inside* one of your criminal cult orgs to talk? When can I and my camera crew come and talk things over in a rational way? How about at *your* home? When can I come over? No appointment neccesary, right? And don't put down my wife. She is from the Bronx, educated at Stanford, and knows shit when she smells it. : I have sent the police officer concerned a copy of What is Scientology : so that he can have the correct information on the Church. I'm sure a criminal cult document will be held with the same weight as TIME and the Los Angeles Times. And there are a few more problems with Ray's story, but I'm not giving you a chance to devise a lie to circumvent them at this point. Bad move, bozos. Another big win for the criminal cult of scientology! -- Grady Ward +1 707 826 7715 (voice / 24hr FAX) grady@netcom.com -------------------------- Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology From: grady@netcom.com (Grady Ward) Subject: Re: Scientologists pay me a visit! Message-ID: Organization: +1 707 826 7715 grady@netcom.com References: <3mnmjk$p39@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 13:31:16 GMT I speculate that the (OSA?) guy from SanFrancisco (Jack) was on an intelligence gathering mission: what kind of person and house, perimeter, apparent wealth, kind of family, obvious alarms or dogs, how telephone service gets to house, etc etc etc. You'd be surprised at the amount of stuff you can get in a "routine" visit. I doubt the local criminal cult member, Ray, had anything to do with the plan except act as backup to Jack. I'll provide more details (case number, etc) as they become available. I'm faxing the police station a couple of newspaper articles (Los Angeles Times series part 6) to add to the TIME article. While I've briefed a few of my key neighbors (read: the "networked" ones) I'll go around again with copies of the articles and my story to back up my previous alert. -- Grady Ward +1 707 826 7715 (voice / 24hr FAX) grady@netcom.com ----------------------- From: Chris Miller Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: Re: Scientologists pay me a visit! Date: 15 Apr 1995 15:56:27 GMT Organization: Lightside, Inc. Message-ID: <3moqbb$5ft@covina.lightside.com> References: <3mnmjk$p39@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> grady@netcom.com (Grady Ward) wrote: > > I speculate that the (OSA?) guy from SanFrancisco (Jack) was on > an intelligence gathering mission: what kind of person and house, > perimeter, apparent wealth, kind of family, obvious alarms or dogs, > how telephone service gets to house, etc etc etc. What a joke. You paint everything, including an honest attempt to meet with you in person without the vias of going through a computer, as an "intelligence gathering mission". Don't you think that if they wanted to gather intelligence, they would just hire some private investigator rather than go and knock on your door? I think you hide behind your computer too much and are seeing a false picture of the world around you. > You'd be surprised at the amount of stuff you can get in a > "routine" visit. I doubt the local criminal cult member, Ray, > had anything to do with the plan except act as backup to Jack. > And just what good would that do. I think it is clear what your position is and what you are doing on the net. I don't think anyone is stupid enough to think that finding out about your dog, your wife and so on is going to change how you are acting. Perhaps meeting someone live might get you to realize that Scientologists are also individuals and not demons which you obviously are trying to make them out to be. They are actually very friendly and are willing to build understanding between people. You sit there behind your computer scared to death, dreaming up things about people you have never even met. > I'll provide more details (case number, etc) as they become > available. I'm faxing the police station a couple of newspaper > articles (Los Angeles Times series part 6) to add to the TIME > article. > Just more garbage that we will sort out with them. I don't suppose the fact that Time Magazine and its author are being sued over the libelous article which they printed has come to your attention has it? You are good at the black PR. > While I've briefed a few of my key neighbors (read: the "networked" ones) > I'll go around again with copies of the articles and my story > to back up my previous alert. > You can also go and build a castle and a big moat around it and never come out. I think it would be advisable that you go outside and take a look around. Wake up and smell the coffee. There is a real world out there Grady and it isn't the one you are looking at. Chris -------------- Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology From: grady@netcom.com (Grady Ward) Subject: Re: Scientologists pay me a visit! Message-ID: Organization: +1 707 826 7715 grady@netcom.com References: <3mnmjk$p39@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> <3moqbb$5ft@covina.lightside.com> Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 23:49:27 GMT Chris Miller (cmiller@covina.lightside.com) wrote: : grady@netcom.com (Grady Ward) wrote: : > : > I speculate that the (OSA?) guy from SanFrancisco (Jack) was on : > an intelligence gathering mission: what kind of person and house, : > perimeter, apparent wealth, kind of family, obvious alarms or dogs, : > how telephone service gets to house, etc etc etc. : What a joke. You paint everything, including an honest attempt to : meet with you in person without the vias of going through a computer, What is your name, address, and phone number? Are you too cowardly to tell? : And just what good would that do. I think it is clear what your : position is and what you are doing on the net. I don't think anyone : is stupid enough to think that finding out about your dog, your wife : and so on is going to change how you are acting. Perhaps meeting That is true. The criminal cult are psychopaths, but also fools. However you may be good at gathering some kinds of data since that doesn't require higher brain function. : someone live might get you to realize that Scientologists are also : individuals and not demons which you obviously are trying to make : them out to be. They are actually very friendly and are willing I am willing to come down and visit you and Jack at the org with my video camera anytime you want. Why are so cowardly as to not reveal your real name, address, and phone number? It is clear who the coward is here "Chris Miller". : to build understanding between people. You sit there behind your : computer scared to death, dreaming up things about people you have Scared to death? Hmmm... then tell me why I tell people my real name address and phone number while you and "Jack" hide behind fake ids? You are too cowardly to post your real name, address, and phone number. : Just more garbage that we will sort out with them. I don't suppose : the fact that Time Magazine and its author are being sued over the Only four facts remain in contention out of hundreds of black facts on the criminal cult of scientology. You are too cowardly to even give your real name. "Jack" was too afraid he'd get his butt kicked to attempt to trespass on his own. He's obviously a coward too. We'll see how bravely "Jack" trespasses after I get the restraining order. Then it will be a felony. : You can also go and build a castle and a big moat around it and never : come out. I think it would be advisable that you go outside and Are you kidding? The criminal cult of scientology is just a warmup for the real battle for us, which is the SB 652 (was 314) and others of its ilk. So -- you chicken-shit coward -- what is your real name, address, and phone number? -- Grady Ward +1 707 826 7715 (voice / 24hr FAX) grady@netcom.com --------------- From: Chris Miller Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: Re: Scientologists pay me a visit! Date: 17 Apr 1995 22:54:01 GMT Organization: Lightside, Inc. Message-ID: <3muri9$5ct@covina.lightside.com> References: <3mqrlc$sq8@news1.shell> hkhenson@shell.portal.com (H Keith Henson) wrote: > > Grady Ward (grady@netcom.com) wrote: > : Two scientologists paid a visit to our house today in Arcata. > : Ray and Jack Keras(?) identified themselves as Scientologists > : to my wife who immediately asked them to leave the property. > > Grady, I wonder if that might have been *Jeff* Quiros, the dude > I mentioned who came to the EFF meeting with Aron Mason of > Freedom magazine? As I remember, sandy hair, 45-50 lined > face. If you have a pix I might recognize him. Jeff was with > the SF org, or so he said and clearly had an interest in the net > though he did not say much at that meeting. > > Keith Henson > Grady and Keith, I contacted the San Francisco Church and spoke with Jeff Quiros who is the Director of Special Affairs there. He said that it was he who had contacted Ray up in Arcata and had gone up to try and create some dialogue with Grady. He did not know where the name "Jack" came up as Jeff said that he told Mrs. Ward his name when he knocked at the door attempting to speak with Grady. In asking Jeff why he had gone to the trouble of driving all the way to Arcata, he said that he felt he would have a much better chance of speaking with Grady if he could get to meet with him face to face rather than over a phone or computer line. He said that it is obvious that Grady is very upset and he wanted to see if he could do something to sort it out. He felt that in a phone call or on e-mail it is too easy just to start name calling or what have you so he took the chance that he could get Grady to speak with him in person. (He said it was not so bad as it was a very nice drive up to Arcata.) Jeff said that he is willing to have Grady come to San Francisco to meet with him at the Church or at a restaurant or where ever. All he wants to do is talk and if nothing can come of it, then at least meeting each other may just give each other a better understanding where each is stands. He doesn't intend for it to be a mud slinging contest and wants to keep it civil. Jeff does not post on ars although he has seen some of the stuff here and knows the flavor of it. So, if Grady wants to do anything with this, it is his choise. Chris ------------------ Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology From: grady@netcom.com (Grady Ward) Subject: Re: Scientologists pay me a visit! Message-ID: Organization: +1 707 826 7715 grady@netcom.com References: <3mqrlc$sq8@news1.shell> <3muri9$5ct@covina.lightside.com> <3mv8ps$d76@ankh.iia.org> Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 05:55:06 GMT Ray couldn't remember "Jack's" name; they heard "Or I'll call the police" several times but not "get off the property"; "Jack" didn't call because he such a warm and loving human being that he wanted to fellate me in person. Uh huh. Jeff Quiros called Officer Murphy today to try to explain why he had to "handle" me (Dead Agenting stuff) but Officer Murphy had to explain what "get off the property" means up here. Criminal cult members need to learn some country manners. The truth is that Keith and I nailed his *real* ID and "Jack" decided that he'd better try to put some spin on the ball before a judge's order comes a-hip-hopping across his criminal cult door. And back to the issue of the criminal cult -- how exactly is Jeff Quiros, Director of Special Affairs, going to stop SCAMIZDAT #4 from being published? It is so worrying to think that the criminal cult is going to be damaged so severely by miscreants defecating on Hubbard's garbage. What can they do to stop this outrage? Nothing? Why should anyone want to join an organization so weak it can't even prevent its own holiest scriptures from being repeatedly defiled in front of their and the whole laughing world's noses? -- Grady Ward +1 707 826 7715 (voice / 24hr FAX) grady@netcom.com

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