(109) Fri 19 Aug 94 1:43 By: David Rice To: J.J. Hitt Re: Clinic Defense 1 of 2 St: @EI

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(109) Fri 19 Aug 94 1:43 By: David Rice To: J.J. Hitt Re: Clinic Defense 1 of 2 St: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ @EID:129f 1d130d60 @PID: ProBoard 2.01 rJ @TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 10280 >DR> At a clinic defense there was a [...] JJH> Can you explain the emphasis on non-violent "defense" ? Sure! Morality and ethically: It is not "okay" to hurt someone unless said someone is in the act of direct PHYSICAL assault. The anti-choice "pro- life" people perform assault and battery up to, but seldome in actually, leaving physical marks on their victims: they are much more interested in leaving emotional scars on their victims. Beating the bastards until they learn manners would only agrivate the problem. Legally: In theory, self-defense allows one to use force up to and equal to the force being inflicted against oneself. Reality is another thing: defending oneself with physical violence will result in jail, fines, and civil law suits, REGARDLESS of the "justness" of ones' defense. Public Relations: Seeing "pro-life" people murdering abortion providers, beating passive, non-resisting pro-choice members bloody on camera and in the newspapers, fire-bombing women's clinics, blinding scores of people with baturic acid, smashing windows, and blocking access to health care is a very POWERFUL message sent to observers that demonstrate the evil, or "wrongness" of the "pro-life" forces, if not their political position. If the pro-choice forcers were to start offending the "pro-life" forces, negative PR would be extremely damaging. Many have been the times when a "pro-life" member has threatened physical assault on me because I got either lippy or forced my body between himself and the girl or woman he was assaulting. If he wasn't too big :-) I put my hands behind my back and invited him to do his worst precisely because my bloody face in the news papers and on T.V. would damage the "pro-life" position. If he was much larger than me, I put my hands in my back pockets, which is a private signal to my pro-choice friends to come to my aid, and THEN ask him to do his worse. I'm not a complete idiot! :-) JJH> Seems to me the time for ass-kicking has been here for JJH> long time. It's illegal and "wrong." The pro-choicers must hold the higher moral ground. If not for morality's sake, then public relation's sake. --- ProBoard v2.01 [Reg] * Origin: No Special Rights for Christians! (1:124/9005) SEEN-BY: 102/2 138 752 835 850 851 890 943 1302 112/1 147/7 170/400 202/1 SEEN-BY: 206/1701 2708 209/207 209 720 770 270/101 280/1 25 35 53 74 115 333 SEEN-BY: 280/378 385 500 290/627 309/2 345/31 396/1 640/75 2801/1 3615/50 @PATH: 124/9005 9023 1 396/1 280/1 209/209 720 102/2 851 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (110) Fri 19 Aug 94 1:44 By: David Rice To: J.J. Hitt Re: Clinic Defense 2 of 2 St: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ @EID:219f 1d130d80 @PID: ProBoard 2.01 rJ @TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 10280 JJH> Send those fuckers home bloody a few times and they'll JJH> stop coming back. They will come back with superior fire-power. The problem is much greater than defending health care and abortion providers from "pro-life" violence and force. One MAJOR problem is, the pro-force "pro-lifers" know who their enemies are, and may attack them/us with impunity. The pro- choice people have very few ways of knowing when they are in physical danger, nor how, nor from whom. That has been the problem with the defensive position ever since Tzu Tse's _Ancient_Art_Of_War_ was written, and why the Assassins and Vandals were such a threat. The pro-choice people may only react to "pro-life" violence because we have no way of knowing which "pro-life" member is going to kill us and which is not. The "pro-life" member intent on violence has no such problem, because ANY pro-choice member or abortion provider is a ready target. The alternative is to go on the offensive and start shooting up the cults that preach subversion of the law, violence, sedition, and hate. But doing so only strengthens their resolve, and weakens the pro-choice position. JJH> (Yeah I know they use kids and senior citizens. The kids JJH> dont have a real say in anything, but the old folks are due JJH> for an ass kicking also.) In Orange County, California, some "pro-lifers" were finned for endangering their children. They had ordered their children to get on the ground and crawl across streets, police lines, and defensive lines held by clinic defenders. This reminded me of the Childrens Crusades where 20,000+ children didn't come back. Several times during the summer months I've seen children and elderly "pro-life" members suffering in the heat while their cult's masters made them blockade clinics. I brought them water or cold sodas and didn't let on that I'm "the enemy." I do not believe they are all there by their own volition. Some of the people I've offered drink to declined because they were fasting so that their prayers to "end abortion" would be stronger. No one can help these people--- maybe they are better off if they suffer needlessly in the heat. Hell, look at all the children and elderly that died or were irrevocably damaged when the Pope visited Colorado a few years ago. Who was responsible? The Pope? Bush, who invited him? The parents? The event coordinators? The sanitation department for not providing adequate waste disposal? The State for not having enough water on site? --- ProBoard v2.01 [Reg] * Origin: No Special Rights for Christians! (1:124/9005) SEEN-BY: 102/2 138 752 835 850 851 890 943 1302 112/1 147/7 170/400 202/1 SEEN-BY: 206/1701 2708 209/207 209 720 770 270/101 280/1 25 35 53 74 115 333 SEEN-BY: 280/378 385 500 290/627 309/2 345/31 396/1 640/75 2801/1 3615/50 @PATH: 124/9005 9023 1 396/1 280/1 209/209 720 102/2 851

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