Message: #191540, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Mar 4, 1994 10:54:25 PM Subject: Ufo Ab

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Message: #191540, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Mar 4, 1994 10:54:25 PM Subject: Ufo Abduction From: westbrook 71705,262 To: All Users Gentlemen: The last issue of the compuserve magazine highlighted the subject of ufo's. I'm looking to network with individuals who have/or know of people who have had a similar abduction experience. Specifically: In 1973 I was abducted (2nd time). The first occassion at age 13 was the standard medical exam scenario. The second time, however, was unique. I was taken into a room and shown videos of what then was future events. Essentially, I was made privy to 30 years of the six o'clock news. This resulted in me being ahead of others when it came to trends, finances, recessions, depressions and the other ills that commonly plague our economies. I always felt the skill came under the heading of 'gifted insight'. I now feel this was a 'programming' session. My programmer was human but not Nordic. On 2/25/94, I travelled to Texas for a weekend with a forensic hypnotist specializing in ufo related issues. There I regained conscious recollection of this and other abduction events. The last being in 10/93 wherein I was snatched but became alert unexpectedly. This resulted in physical damage to several Grays as I went ballistic. Let's say they couldn't get rid of me fast enough. I wish to locate individuals, like myself, who have undergone this programming to ascertain similiarity in the encounters. Items that are dissimlar from your standard scernario are: 1. Visual induction of massive amounts of data. 2. No medical exams. 3. Benign contact with one human and at least one Nordic. 4. No Grays. 5. Non standard ship configuration. There are several pieces of information being withheld to ascertain veracity. These are elements only a legitimate abductee would know. I am not looking people who have any other type of experience just this one kind. I would greatly appreciate any referral on this subject. Robert Message: #100683, S/13 Extraterrestrials Date: Fri, Mar 4, 1994 10:58:11 PM Subject: ufo abduction From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: all users Gentlemen: The last issue of the compuserve magazine highlighted the subject of ufo's. I'm looking to network with individuals who have/or know of people who have had a similar abduction experience. Specifically: In 1973 I was abducted (2nd time). The first occassion at age 13 was the standard medical exam scenario. The second time, however, was unique. I was taken into a room and shown videos of what then was future events. Essentially, I was made privy to 30 years of the six o'clock news. This resulted in me being ahead of others when it came to trends, finances, recessions, depressions and the other ills that commonly plague our economies. I always felt the skill came under the heading of 'gifted insight'. I now feel this was a 'programming' session. My programmer was human but not Nordic. On 2/25/94, I travelled to Texas for a weekend with a forensic hypnotist specializing in ufo related issues. There I regained conscious recollection of this and other abduction events. The last being in 10/93 wherein I was snatched but became alert unexpectedly. This resulted in physical damage to several Grays as I went ballistic. Let's say they couldn't get rid of me fast enough. I wish to locate individuals, like myself, who have undergone this programming to ascertain similiarity in the encounters. Items that are dissimlar from your standard scernario are: 1. Visual induction of massive amounts of data. 2. No medical exams. 3. Benign contact with one human and at least one Nordic. 4. No Grays. 5. Non standard ship configuration. There are several pieces of information being withheld to ascertain veracity. These are elements only a legitimate abductee would know. I am not looking people who have any other type of experience just this one kind. I would greatly appreciate any referral on this subject. Robert Message: #192594, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Mar 7, 1994 2:29:13 AM Subject: #191540-Ufo Abduction From: *Xena* 72230,2401 To: westbrook 71705,262 Robert, "Gods of Eden" by William Bramley might be of interest to you. In one account, a man named Guy Warren Ballard was taken to an underground complex in the Tetons by St. Germain, and told "No one - in this world - ever accumulated a great deal of wealth - without the assistance and radiation of some - Ascended Master. There are occasions - in which individuals can be used as a focus of great wealth - for a specific purpose - and at such times - greatly added power is radiated to them - for through it they can receive personal assistance. Such an opportunity- is a test - and opportunity - for their growth." -Cindy Message: #192898, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Mar 7, 1994 6:32:18 PM Subject: #191540-Ufo Abduction From: Patrick O'Rourke 72730,2741 To: westbrook 71705,262 You go 30 years of news in a '73 abduction. Been able to turn it to your advantage... Still 10 years to go, no? Care to share the wealth? What's gonna happen interesting? Anything I can make money on? Message: #193134, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Mar 8, 1994 12:34:07 AM Subject: #191540-Ufo Abduction From: Patric Z 71042,2573 To: westbrook 71705,262 Robert: I came into this forum to search out other stories of abductees so I could figure out what, if anything has happened to me. I've had some unexplainable things happen to me through my 28 years and I am just now trying to put them together. The most vivid of which happened when I was a kid, about 8. I was in bed and suddenly woke up at 3:15AM. I looked to the window, which was about 3 feet away and in it poked a little white, generally featureless head of a creature about 3 1/2' tall. It watched me for a bit, then went away. This was in 73 or 74 in Orange County, Ca., a pretty crowded suburb. Other unexplainables have happened to me, but I think I've repressed quite a bit. I'm semi-lurking on here to see if anything jogs me. Would you recommend the Texas hypnotist you worked with as someone others may have luck with? I've often considered talking to a pro, but it seems once these things are uncovered they may tend to take priority over other things in someones life. I don't know if I ready for that yet but appreciate any feedback you may have. thanks, Patric Message: #193356, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Mar 8, 1994 3:11:18 PM Subject: #192594-Ufo Abduction From: westbrook 71705,262 To: *Xena* 72230,2401 Cindy: I've skimmed the book. The religious aspect of ufos, angels and the god of Abraham are false and deliberate ploy to keep is misdirected from that which is true. Unfortunately, the prime directive doesn't exist and Klingons aren't daisies. Thanx Bob Message: #193354, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Mar 8, 1994 3:08:24 PM Subject: #192898-Ufo Abduction From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Patrick O'Rourke 72730,2741 Clinton will not serve out his term. More 'natural' disasters of 'biblical proportion' will plague the planet. Sell short on humanity. Message: #193355, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Mar 8, 1994 3:09:16 PM Subject: #193134-Ufo Abduction From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Patric Z 71042,2573 Catch me in email. Message: #193485, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Mar 8, 1994 9:41:16 PM Subject: #193356-Ufo Abduction From: *Xena* 72230,2401 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob, Okay so why do you think they're here? -Cindy Message: #193561, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Mar 9, 1994 4:43:21 AM Subject: #193485-Ufo Abduction From: westbrook 71705,262 To: *Xena* 72230,2401 Why r they here? The question is a little amusing because the proper question is why r we here. They have always 'been' here. We are here because they placed us here. They share our DNA (see Genesis 7) have mated with us and created genetic mutations over thousands of years. Adam and Eve were not indiginous to this planet. Message: #193622, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Mar 9, 1994 10:26:08 AM Subject: #193561-Ufo Abduction From: *Xena* 72230,2401 To: westbrook 71705,262 Well yeah, that's my current favorite hypothesis. No idea why you thought *I* thought the whole thing was religious in nature. I'll see if I can find the message I was responding to. I think you said something to the effect that they're here for a reason but it's not cause they're angels or God. -Cindy Message: #193874, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Mar 9, 1994 10:56:23 PM Subject: #193561-Ufo Abduction From: Jim Swinny 71774,3031 To: westbrook 71705,262 Your first name isnt Rick is it? Its about time I finally got intouch with a friend. I hope we will have alot to talk about.Jim Message: #193610, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Mar 9, 1994 10:19:11 AM Subject: #193356-Ufo Abduction From: *Xena* 72230,2401 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob, Hey, since when have you ever seen ME take the religious side? Which book are we talking about, btw? Of the two books I usually talk about here, neither has the viewpoint that UFOs are *really* angels, etc, except to show why humankind may have THOUGHT they were. -Cindy Message: #193614, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Mar 9, 1994 10:19:07 AM Subject: #193356-Ufo Abduction From: *Xena* 72230,2401 To: westbrook 71705,262 And, btw, what's your opinion of the Truth? Message: #194416, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Mar 11, 1994 12:07:28 AM Subject: #193874-Ufo Abduction From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Jim Swinny 71774,3031 (received) Reply: #194436 (1 reply) For any one wishing to chat on the subject. I'll supply an 800 if you agree to call off hours. Jim, My first name is bob. My phone is 818-772-6082. Message: #194436, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Mar 11, 1994 1:00:17 AM Subject: #194416-Ufo Abduction From: Jim Swinny 71774,3031 To: westbrook 71705,262 Ok, how much will it cost me?:-) Just kidding, I get monthly rates. Do you think anyone really cares. What if the powers that be are zapping it from the human race a little at a time so they can remain superbeings? I'll call you over the weekend. I have to go to the country to cut pastures. We will talk! Message: #194397, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Mar 11, 1994 12:04:02 AM Subject: #193610-Ufo Abduction From: westbrook 71705,262 To: *Xena* 72230,2401 Cindy I'm new here so I have no background on your views. I've recently finished a book set to be published later in the year. I'm not a ufo type and avoided reading other's ideas to avoid polluting or confusing my logic with their material. I felt that as seeker's of truth I would cross paths with others of my ilk and wanted to avoid their research seeping into my own. Bob Message: #194398, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Mar 11, 1994 12:04:24 AM Subject: #193614-Ufo Abduction From: westbrook 71705,262 To: *Xena* 72230,2401 The truth = an ant farm depending upon whether you're the master or the ant. Message: #196842, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Mar 16, 1994 9:41:07 AM Subject: #195795-Ufo Abduction From: Wayne Walusiak/IL 72366,421 To: westbrook 71705,262 re: son's of god injected their genes into Noah's daughters and bred a race o giants... Hope they wre there to do the Ceasarian operations too !!! WW Message: #197216, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Mar 17, 1994 12:21:15 AM Subject: #196842-Ufo Abduction From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Wayne Walusiak/IL 72366,421 (received) Don't underestimate the ability of the vagina to ssssstttreeeettttcccchhhh! I lost a vw my exwife refuses to account for. Message: #198636, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Mar 19, 1994 10:12:16 PM Subject: #197216-Ufo Abduction From: Jim Swinny 71774,3031 To: westbrook 71705,262 I beg your......Parton? Message: #205609, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Apr 3, 1994 12:05:23 AM Subject: #204731-Do they want us to Know? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Bob Perse/SL16 75310,3312 (received) Reply: #205796 (4 replies) Ladies and Gentlemen: Those of you who like to discuss government coverups of ufos should consider some alternative facts. 1. There is nothing positive to be achieved by investigating government. 2. Even if they did spill everything they know - other than talking what are you going to do with the information? Write books, have lectures? That's what Mufon does and very little else. Message: #205796, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Apr 3, 1994 11:20:00 AM Subject: #205609-Do they want us to Know? From: Bob Perse/SL16 75310,3312 To: westbrook 71705,262 >>Even if they did spill everything they know - other than talking what are you going to do with the information? Write books, have lectures? That's what Mufon does and very little else.<< Well, for one thing - one way or the other - we would have information we do not now have. Whatever the facts would be from them, we would then be able to use that information to proceed onward. The whole idea is to get as many pieces of the puzzle as possible to work with. But that's what curious people do when they have a mystery on their hands. Maybe you personally would rather just ignore the whole thing. But ......then why are you here? Message: #205921, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Apr 3, 1994 3:26:02 PM Subject: #205609-Do they want us to Know? From: Shannon, Sara Smith 73521,3045 To: westbrook 71705,262 Reply: #205965 (1 reply) >>Even if they did spill everything they know - other than talking what are you going to do with the information? You've kid to be gotting me, westy! If the government would let us have even a little of the advanced knowledge that they might possess ala Lazar or others, think what tremendous benefits we might be able to derive for the good of mankind. We could alleviate problems in energy, medicine, human strife and existential defeatism. If it all turns out to be hooey, then we could all quit wasting time bashing each other over the head in this forum and do something constructive with our lives, like returning to studies of science, nature, peace, or how to get one million channels out of a 1/4 inch cable! Shannon {@#$%&*@#$%^&*B-) Hey get off my keyboard, cat! Message: #205974, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Apr 3, 1994 4:54:13 PM Subject: #205609-Do they want us to Know? From: Jim Griebel 71541,2124 To: westbrook 71705,262 Pardon? In a previous message you got pretty specific about the government's exploitation of captured alien technology. (It'd be interesting to know your sources for all those claims, BTW.) Now if we could prove any of this we could put to bed the decades-old debates about whether UFOs are real, and if so, what they are. At that point (IMHO) it really stops being a question of what MUFON's going to do about it. Unless what you're arguing here is that absolutely nothing _can_ be done about it. Personally I doubt that. You're presenting that exploitation of alien technology as a black project, and one of the problems with those is that by nature they only allow a limited set of minds and ideas to be brought to bear on the problem. (Bob Lazar, for instance, may be one of the nicest guys around, but he never did strike me as being up there with Lawrence or Fermi or Oppenheimer.) The people you _really_ need to solve that problem may never hear about it as long as you keep it a deep, dark secret. If something like that's going on (and I don't believe that it is) then bringing it out in the open could bring on a solution that won't happen otherwise. Message: #206136, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Apr 3, 1994 9:54:26 PM Subject: #205609-Do they want us to Know? From: Steve Quinn 70252,3563 To: westbrook 71705,262 westbrook, Listen loud and clear...make no mistake: As an abductee I want to know who knew what, and when they knew it. I WILL hold each and every one of the government workers, elected officials, intellegence agency workers, police et all accountable for information that they did not share with my family and myself. I am not nor will I be in a forgiving mood. Some people that made the decisions to keep the public in the dark ought to have been hunted for sport and shot for meat. I would like to know just what you know and what was your role in this conspiracy of silence. WELL...I'm waiting..... Steve Message: #207927, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Apr 7, 1994 1:34:06 AM Subject: #205796-Do they want us to Know? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Bob Perse/SL16 75310,3312 (received) Bob: I am against apathy. I am against inaction. Mufon is not a major force in ufo research. To this date they don't even have a computerized database while Cufos has had for years. I AM doing something about it other than writing books. I HAVE located at least one Nordic operation and searching out others. I HAVE devised a simple method of testing for abductions AND I AM working on a means of preventing the same. Westbrook Message: #207936, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Apr 7, 1994 1:48:15 AM Subject: #205974-Do they want us to Know? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Jim Griebel 71541,2124 Jim: 1. I believe the truth should be known. 2. Exploiting captured technology is a GOOD thing not a bad thing. 3. I do not believe that advising the do nothings at Mufon is adviseable. As they have nothing the offer, there is nothing to gain. 4. There is no debate as to whether or not ufos are real. There are A. Those that believe, B. Those that don't believe and C. Those who have been there. The first two fall in the category of religions. While the later has first hand knowedge. I am in the C group. You see boys and girls, I am an abductee of the unusual kind. You're welcome to a copy of the book and can make your own judgements re: credibility. Bob Message: #207938, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Apr 7, 1994 1:52:14 AM Subject: #206136-Do they want us to Know? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Steve Quinn 70252,3563 Steve: 1. Sorry friend, I don't intimidate well so I'll pass on your implied threats. 2. I too am an abductee but apparently haven't been traumatized as badly as you have. 3. Those who make the decisions in government are not within your reach. 4. I am not a part of government. 5. Read my book, a lot of the answers you wish are in there. Bob Message: #207930, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Apr 7, 1994 1:38:11 AM Subject: #205887-Roswell From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Alain Beaulieu/SL16 70403,3645 Alain: 1. Ufos have been around for 6000 years. The next five years are critical to the continued existence of mankind. 2. The power supply and power drive are one and the same. 3. Suborbital means it can't leave the atmosphere. 4. Leave Area 51 alone. Bob Message: #207934, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Apr 7, 1994 1:41:15 AM Subject: #205970-Roswell From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Lumir Janku 72274,376 (received) Reply: #207948 (1 reply) Lumir: Please note that on this board I have offered a free copy of my book, WITH THE ANSWERS AND SOURCES YOU CITE, for a diskette and a self addressed envelope. Westy Message: #207948, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Apr 7, 1994 3:09:07 AM Subject: #207934-Roswell From: Lumir Janku 72274,376 To: westbrook 71705,262 >Please note that on this board I have offered a free copy of my book, WITH THE ANSWERS AND SOURCES YOU CITE, for a diskette and a self addressed envelope. Westy OK, be so kind, and e-mail me your address, please. Lumir Message: #207939, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Apr 7, 1994 1:53:27 AM Subject: #206171-Roswell From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Dean Miller 75110,3417 Nah - I'm a one book author. I make too much money and have too much fun doing what I do for a living. Bob Message: #207932, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Apr 7, 1994 1:40:09 AM Subject: Reply From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Shannon, Sara Smith 73521,3045 Shannon: No offense but I think you've seen too many episodes of Star Trek. Nice thought - but it isn't very practical. Bob Message: #208024, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Apr 7, 1994 9:35:19 AM Subject: #207927-Do they want us to Know? From: John W. Ratcliff 70253,3237 To: westbrook 71705,262 (deletable) >>AND I AM working on a means of preventing the same. In Jacobs book he talks about methods of attempting to prevent abductions, like using a video camera. This works as a delaying tactic. I found this line of reasoning very intriguing. I wondered. What other methods have people tried. Have they used electronic bracelets? Hidden cameras that the abductee wasn't even aware was there? (Thus perhaps preventing the aliens from knowing it was there themselves.) This is a very curious aproach to trying to gather emperical data on the physical aspect of abductions. (Like people physically missing, and perhaps catching an alien on film.) John Message: #208052, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Apr 7, 1994 11:02:00 AM Subject: #207934-Roswell From: Mark R. Roberts 74227,1642 To: westbrook 71705,262 >>Please note that on this board I have offered a free copy of my book, WITH THE ANSWERS AND SOURCES YOU CITE, for a diskette and a self addressed envelope. Westy OK, be so kind, and e-mail me your address, please. Lumir<< I'll second that notion. Where I can get a copy? Tell me what I must do. >> I make too much money and have too much fun doing what I do for a living. Bob<< Ok, so don't tease us, what do you do. -Mark Message: #208153, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Apr 7, 1994 1:45:16 PM Subject: #207934-Roswell From: Paul M. Hadeed 73512,631 To: westbrook 71705,262 < Nah - I'm a one book author. I make too much money and have too > much fun doing what I do for a living. Bob Sounds great! Dean - Des Moines IA 07-Apr-1994 23:25:19 CST Message: #208553, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Apr 8, 1994 12:19:21 AM Subject: ufo detectors From: westbrook 71705,262 To: 70253,3237 (received) (deletable) Reply: #208648 (1 reply) John: Standard alarm systems won't work for this reason: The black hats snatch you from your bedroom. They use a dimensional door that emits a blue light and measures seven feet in height by 15 feet in length. They then use the equivalent of a tractor beam to 'levitate' you thru the door way. This technique insures minimum risk to them. In cases where the 4D door isn't practical, they hit the whole house with a field that turns everyone's lights out. It doesn't work on cats and dogs. Then they put you on automatic, walk you outside and then hit you with the tractor beam. In each of these instances, the presence of 4 dimensional physics redefines the boundaries of what a device designed to detect 3D occurences can work. I would add that the aliens themselves can phase shift to invisibility with very little notice. Therefore, if an alien were to enter your abode, the chances are there wouldn't be enough of him there to set off a motion, heat or video detector. I devised a very simple device for detecting the 4D door. This is a compass and a magnet. The needle of the compass points north. At a right angle to the needle I place a small circular magnet. This establishes a precarious balance between the magnetics of the needle and the magnet. I speculated that the induction of any magnetic energy into the room would cause the needle to spin. When it stopped spinning, I hoped the magnet would grab one of the ends of the pointer. As luck would have it, I was right and wrong about my analysis. During the last abduction, the magnet was thrown 2 inches away from the compass. Exactly the opposite of what I planned for. What happens is that the needle spins like crazy. The increased magnetics coming off the needle acts like a generator creating sufficient force to repel the magnet. This device has been tested and proven (by me) to work. Variants of it are available and the construction of offensive weaponry based upon this detector is possible. in 10/93 I was snatched from my bedroom. Somehow, I managed to become alert, I saw two Grays and went ballistic. I mangled the two of them so badly, I believe I may have killed them. However, I was swarmed by more of them and thrown thru the door. I awoke butt naked the next morning. I don't sleep naked. I found my shorts on the floor at the foot of the bed. Ie: They couldn't get me out of there fast enough. In addition I had cuts and scratches from the fight that I did not have when I went to bed. on 2/25/94 I went to Houston to meet with a forensic hypnotist specializing in abductions. There I regained my memory of major incidents with them beyond what I knew or had deduced. the full story is in my book. This fellow, Darrel Simms has people who are being snatched about once every eight weeks. He's experimented with planting post hypnotic time bombs into his abductees. The kind that explode in alien faces. He's had success with this. He is under constant surveillance and I knew going to his home would be a risk for me. I did so any way. I returned to LA on the night of 2/27 expecting to have a problem with the Grays that night. I set up my homespun detector, Measured the length of my fingernails and examined my body top to bottom for nicks or scratches. The following morning, I awoke to find that my detector had gone off. My fingernails had grown a quarter of an inch and I had various nicks and scratches I did not have when I went to bed. IE: I'm still going ballistic. While not conscious, my subconscious has become adept at taking control and protecting me. I've had no more problems with abductions since. In addition to this, I purchased a brainwave synchronizer to develope the ability to tune into their telepathic communications. I believe these to be in the Theta band. I am now able to SEE the outline of a phased Gray. They are content not to grab me anymore but seem to be concerned about what I'm doing. They send one in about every fourth day. Answer your question? Bob Message: #208648, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Apr 8, 1994 4:09:14 AM Subject: #208553-ufo detectors From: Lumir Janku 72274,376 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob, Intriguing! Looking forward to read your book. Sendin' the mail tomorrow. Lumir Message: #208751, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Apr 8, 1994 12:40:22 PM Subject: #208553-ufo detectors From: John W. Ratcliff 70253,3237 To: westbrook 71705,262 (deletable) Yeah, I guess it answers my questions. Have you at times co-operated fully during your abductions? Has it changed the nature of the experience? Have you had specific information communicated to you during your abductions or just been abused? John Message: #208830, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Apr 8, 1994 4:47:26 PM Subject: UFO Reply From: westbrook 71705,262 To: 70253,3237 (deletable) Have you at times co-operated fully during your abductions? Has it changed the nature of the experience? Have you had specific information communicated to you during your abductions or just been abused? First abduction was unplanned. I happened upon them while hiking. HE held me down while SHE took her specimen. No pain involved. I was a kid and fighting with adults was out. Resistance was futile anyway. 1963 1973 - An unsual abduction. Not medical. I was given 30 years worth of the six o'clock news starting with the resignation of Nixon. I guess you'd call this a communicationn. 1983 - Wife and I both abducted. They fixed a malformation in her fallopian tubes. We'd been told we'd never have kids. Two months later, she's pregnant (my kid). Took genetic specimen from me. All these were with Nordics. 1993 - Abduction by Grays - specimen collecting. They didn't have the time - when I saw them I went nuclear. 2/94 - Ditto. Message: #208941, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Apr 8, 1994 8:33:26 PM Subject: #207934-Roswell From: Shannon, Sara Smith 73521,3045 To: westbrook 71705,262 >>a free copy of my book, WITH THE ANSWERS AND SOURCES YOU CITE, for a diskette and a self addressed envelope. Westy Please E-Mail your address prethanks, Sara Message: #209103, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Apr 8, 1994 11:37:00 PM Subject: #208830-UFO Reply From: Patrick J. Maloney 73407,3676 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #209155 (1 reply) PMJI Westbrook, >>...Resistance was futile anyway... Resistance is futile. Where have I heard that before? Seriously... <<1973 - An unsual abduction. Not medical. I was given 30 years worth of the six o'clock news starting with the resignation of Nixon. I guess you'd call this a communicationn.>> You were given views of future newscasts? <<1983 - Wife and I both abducted. They fixed a malformation in her fallopian tubes. We'd been told we'd never have kids. Two months later, she's pregnant (my kid). Took genetic specimen from me.>> Does your wife have any visible external scars from this procedure? From what part of your body did they take the tissue sample? Is your first name Ed? Just wondering. -Patrick Message: #209155, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Apr 9, 1994 2:09:29 AM Subject: #209103-UFO Reply From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Patrick J. Maloney 73407,3676 Patrick: First name is Bob. No scars. Most likely under the pubic hair. Specimen from testicle Incidentally, the wife is now the exwife. She always lied to me about the source of her sterility. I recently confronter her with what I NOW KNEW to be the truth. Her response was, How did you find out? Go figure. Yes, future events. Bob Message: #209457, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Apr 9, 1994 5:03:02 PM Subject: #207936-Do they want us to Know? From: Jim Griebel 71541,2124 To: westbrook 71705,262 Well, it's hard to see how this relates to anything I said, but: 1. Bravo. Me too. 2. Captured technology is going to be exploited -- whether this is a good or a bad thing is a remote moral consideration compared to immediate tactical advantage. My point was that trying to exploit it as a black project may not be the best way to go about it. 3. You've lost me on this one. You seem to be advising us to "do nothing," except maybe read your book. 4. Oh. Another one? The problem with Those of You What Have Been There for Those of Us What Ain't is the remarkable variety of stories you all tell -- everything from Tall Blond Beautifully Androgynous Messengers of Cosmic Brotherhood to Baby-Devouring Lizard Beings from Hell. It's a little difficult for us to make out which of you we ought to believe, since you all claim that firsthand experience validates your claims. If you want to e-mail me your address, I'll take you up on the book offer. In the meantime, it might be nice if you climbed down off the soapbox just a tad. Message: #209547, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Apr 9, 1994 8:01:20 PM Subject: Ufo reply From: westbrook 71705,262 To: 71541,2124 (received) You seem to be advising us to "do nothing," except maybe read your book. > I am saying that whining about government is not 'doing something'. Expecting others to provide answers to you is not 'doing something'. Expecting government to hand over secrets that you aren't equiped to put to good use is illogical. What Ain't is the remarkable variety of stories you all tell -- everything from Tall Blond Beautifully Androgynous Messengers of Cosmic Brotherhood to Baby-Devouring Lizard Beings from Hell. Each abductee usually has had experience with only one of the seven species of aliens available. One (Nordics) are human, the other six are artifically created lifeforms built upon a foundation of our genetic material. Of those, there is one that appears to be an insect. All but the Nordics are sterile. Any abductee is capable of reporting only what they (individually) have seen. Therefore, if you are a person looking for a one shoe fits all alien scenario, you'll be able to cite inconsistancies UNLESS you are willing to expand the logic to include more than one alien lifeform. Different people have different experiences with them. The Nordics are quite beautiful, however, they can be mean. It depends upon the purpose of their mission. If they have no need for force, they can be as nice as the next guy. They follow their orders. I can't speak to all the stories that abound. My work is built upon a foundation of logic that anyone with a reasonable and open mind can follow. I don't seek converts but I do have an agenda. CIS provides a forum for me to exercise that agenda. Specifically, I am looking for those who have had the same exact experience I have had. Re: My soapbox. My arrogance is born of competency and the certainty that I am right. If my style offends you, the question becomes, "Who owns the problem?" So I don't have to keep sending people Email my address is Robert Westbrook 8707-D Lindley#125 Northridge, CA 91325 Message: #209954, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Apr 10, 1994 1:37:22 PM Subject: #209547-Ufo reply From: Shannon, Sara Smith 73521,3045 To: westbrook 71705,262 >>Each abductee usually has had experience with only one of the seven species of aliens available<< A researcher told me that the researchers speak of *67* different species. My own abduction included 3 types of beings that I have never heard of anywhere else. Sara Message: #210133, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Apr 10, 1994 6:19:01 PM Subject: #209547-Ufo reply From: Jim Griebel 71541,2124 To: westbrook 71705,262 Well, Bob, your self-described "arrogance" sure ain't _my_ problem, and I can hardly "own" one I can't fix. I might ask why, if you came in here to find people with the same experiences, you didn't do that instead of launching instantly into a lecture-cum-editorial, but what the hell. We get more of this here: who's "whining about the government?" I don't; I don't think the government knows any more about real UFOs (whatever they are) than I do. OTOH the government has seen them as a powerful propaganda/ psychological warfare tool, a means of manipulating mass opinion, since very early on -- see, for instance, the Robertson Panel report -- and may well have engaged in experimentation along those lines. (It is known that there have been some attempts to provoke UFO reports, so as to get some feel for how likely they are to be made; much more complex and far-reaching experiments have reached at least the proposal stage.) As for "handing over secrets," I haven't even brought up the legitimacy of classifying such information, if it exists (which I doubt) although certainly there is ample room for discussion of the point. Blind faith in the government's wisdom is, alas, not one of my strong points. Sorry about that. But, for the third time, the point I've been trying to make is that reverse engineering alien technology as a black project may not _work_ as well as doing it in the open. Yeah, I've heard of the seven species of aliens: who hasn't? This isn't exactly hot news you're putting forward here, you know; it looks thus far like a variation of the Cooper/Lear view of matters, which is about as fresh, new and exciting as last week's Hamburger Helper. Others have cited numbers running up into the hundreds. Why should I believe you and not them? I guess the answer to that one is going to be "read the book," which I will, but in closing, let me point out that your own certainty of your absolute correctness doesn't mean a thing to anybody else, and logic is only as good as its premises. False premises, impeccable logic, false conclusions. Message: #212263, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Apr 14, 1994 3:09:05 AM Subject: #212194-UFO Reply From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Alain Beaulieu/SL16 70403,3645 (received) Gee, Too common. Guess what folks, the earth doesn't shake here everyday. And no one else called the shot. AND it was reported in the news. So much for the proof mongers. Bob Message: #212598, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Apr 14, 1994 7:59:00 PM Subject: #211704-UFO Reply From: Todd Hasken 70661,2664 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #212828 (1 reply) Bob, Don't quit your day job just yet. Claim what you will, but at least make a legitimate prediction rather than "someone will die in an accident today". According to my encyclopedia (I'll have to visit the library for more current and direct sources), there are over 50,000 quakes each year recorded between a 3 and 4. Such quakes have been occurring almost daily in that area since January. I didn't even see that one on the national news, which *channel* did the aliens show? This goes back to the difference between a true prophet and a false prophet. A true prophet is never wrong, and doesn't need a stretch. I am not trying to discredit or dismiss your accounts, but if you want to show that you have *seen* the future, then tell us something that can't be predicted based upon recent events or statistical probability. Your statement that Clinton will not serve out his term (though I'd like something a *little* more immediate) is such an example, because the odds are greatly against you. ToddH Message: #212828, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Apr 15, 1994 2:12:17 AM Subject: #212598-UFO Reply From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Todd Hasken 70661,2664 (received) Todd: You asked for something a little more immediate and I gave it to you 3 hours before it occurred. Check the time stamps on the post. Your flippant dismissals based on daily quakes in the 3 to 4 magnitude in LA are false and inaccurate. I live here and I know when it jumps. The news was and nbc. Furthermore, I've already said I don't claim to be a prophet or anything of the sort. Yet, you seem to have ignored that. The fact is, you asked, and I delivered. If you think quakes are easy to nail down. Why don't YOU replicate the feat. Name locale within 50 miles, day, magnitude. Now if you really want to impress me - stich in the time. You think that playing mathematical probibilites is the name of the game. Dig up the stats to support your opinion. I have the advantage of living in the area for 35 years and while there are earthquakes in CA every day, they are less than 2.0 range and are all centered 700 miles from LA in the Mammoth Lakes region. Your stats and your opinion fall short. Naturally, we can't consider the impossible. Perhaps what I've said is true and correct. Nahhhhhhhhhh. Bob Message: #212742, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Apr 14, 1994 11:09:04 PM Subject: #211708-reply From: Stuart Nicholson 76702,2042 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #212829 (1 reply) Bob (it is Bob isn't it?), >>There are more than one anti-christ. Answer = those still possessing free will. Clarification = The god of Abraham was not a god.<< This is extremely interesting; could you go into this further. Also, I would be interested in reading your book but unfortunately, living in Australia have no way of sending you a stamped envelope. Any suggestions? Stuart Message: #212829, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Apr 15, 1994 2:18:23 AM Subject: #212742-reply From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Stuart Nicholson 76702,2042 Stuart - leave me email with your address. I'll mail you one. Genesis 7. The sons of god mate with Noah's girls and give birth to a race of giants. Sons of God = angels. Conclusion = angels and humans share the same dna. Inference = Humas ARE angels. God is not of the flesh and therefore does not possess our dna. Therefore, he is of a different species. There is extensive evidence in the bible of out of time technology. Any diety using techology to perform 'miracles' would therefore be limited to the extents of his machines. The God of Abraham shows many many limitations. Furthermore, most of the so called miracles can be done with 20th century technology. This includes the parting of the Red Sea. The book gives much more detail. The God of Abraham was a conartist who I've rename Con-man. He suffers the same emotional failings as humans and does his miracles with the slight of hand of a stange magician. Jesus Christ, on the other hand, performed his straight up and in your face. Bob Message: #213685, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Apr 16, 1994 6:19:03 PM Subject: #211056-ufo Nordics From: Michael Borger 71736,3374 To: westbrook 71705,262 I mean no disrespect, but I want to ask an obvious question here. Assuming you are telling the truth, and you are in fact involved in an ongoing battle of wits with aliens, why are you spilling so many beans here in a public forum? What is your motive in sharing the information you have gained, the defense measures you have discovered, and operational plans? It strikes me that you would be helping the aliens scope you out and defeat what defenses you have worked out, and also decrease your chances for success in future operatins by airing them here. Am I being too naive, or do you have reasons for all this? Regards... Mike Borger Message: #213915, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Apr 17, 1994 5:57:00 AM Subject: #211709-reply From: Stephen L. Schwartz 74353,1544 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob, >>Can u give us an account of what she thinks happened to her? Bob This young lady is 20, I believe, and as far back as she can remember, has had deep hidden fears. One such fear is that of being out in the country. She remembers an early episode once when she was in such a place, and she was in the back window seat of the car. The car stopped, and a strange face came up the side of the car facing her. She vaguely remembers going somewhere but can't remember where, or for how long. She is certain that she can feel when they are around the area, but can't explain why. She has memories of strange locations, which she can't imagine were of anything from here. All in all, she is very bothered by the whole thing. The whole story is very complex, and if you would like I can arrange a conversation. Is there anything I could do to help? Please let me know. Thanks, Steve Schwartz Message: #214289, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Apr 17, 1994 8:53:21 PM Subject: #212829-reply From: Stuart Nicholson 76702,2042 To: westbrook 71705,262 Hi Bob, Sorry if you got two postings of thesame message. I was having a small trouble with my navigator. :-) Stuart Message: #214379, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Apr 18, 1994 3:32:03 AM Subject: reply ufo From: westbrook 71705,262 To: 71736,3374 Fm: Michael Borger 71736,3374 To: westbrook 71705,262 > why are you spilling so many beans here in a public forum? Michael would you care what an ant thought about you? They hold us in extreme contempt. We are viewed as nothing more than cattle. Would you get paranoid if Bessy had anything to say? What is your motive > I am looking for 30 specific people. From 1973 to 1976, there were 30 reported cases identical to my own. Those people hold the missing pieces to my puzzle. These are my motives. Bob Message: #214380, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Apr 18, 1994 3:32:11 AM Subject: reply ufo From: westbrook 71705,262 To: 74353,1544 This young lady is 20, I believe, and as far back as she can remember, has had deep hidden fears. One such fear is that of being out in the country. She remembers an early episode once when she was in such a place, and she was in the back window seat of the car. The car stopped, and a strange face came up the side of the car facing her. She vaguely remembers going somewhere but can't remember where, or for how long. She is certain that she can feel when they are around the area, but can't explain why. There are thousands of reasons why people have fears, none of which have anything to do with ufos. Her research, and thus, your description of the encounter are lacking. Who was driving the car? What did they see and hear? Have they been queries about the memory? Were there others in the area and time frame that have had similar recollections? Has the lady been tested for mental illness or personality disorders? See what I mean? >Is there anything I could do to help? Please let me know. Yes, get a more complete picture. The basic reporter's credo applies here. Who, what, where, when and why. B Message: #216023, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Apr 21, 1994 2:39:14 AM Subject: books and ufos From: westbrook 71705,262 To: all Folks: I have upload several chapters of my book, A Survivor's Guide To Armaggedon as Textware. Feel free to take a peek. As with any endeavor, the proof is in the pudding. I was asked to make a prediction of a verifiable event. I did so, predicting the occurence of an earthquake in Los Angeles several hours before it actually occurred. The time stamps of the posts here on CIS are proof positive of the fact. Those who requested proof are ironically silent and I find the silence on the subject deafening. Or is it frightening? I've noted of late, that the subject matter I'm pursuing has generated a significant amount of fear in some. Actually, I'd say it's more of a 'primal' fear. It goes much deeper. Now, either I have established some credibility or I haven't. Ignoring the reality services no purpose and definitely doesn't help me one iota. Bob Westbrook Message: #216458, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Apr 21, 1994 9:34:20 PM Subject: #214379-reply ufo From: Michael Borger 71736,3374 To: westbrook 71705,262 Thank you for answering my direct questions so gracefully. Okay, that makes sense. Are the aliens so ahead of us in technology that it doesn't matter, or is theirs a radically different consciousness, transdimensional existence that makes them so different from us. Also, what do you think of the various threads and library files that are equating these aliens with the Bible's fallen angels or demons? Are these the same critters who have been mistaken for fairies, etc? I have a memory of a dream from childhood. There was a giant buzzard that came to see me at night. He wanted to know if my feet were like his. I was (in the dream) really sweating it because I knew my feet were human, not big bird feet like his. Is this a random noise dream, or is it significant? Regards. Mike Borger Message: #216629, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Apr 22, 1994 6:41:18 AM Subject: #216023-books and ufos From: Shannon + Sara Smith 73521,3045 To: westbrook 71705,262 >>Now, either I have established some credibility or I haven't. Bob, Just like in the UFO phenomena itself, you have *begun* the process of establishing a proof. Its a good start, and if you continue in this manner, I will believe you, at least regarding your clairvoyance. We are merely waiting for more, so that your credibility/accuracy increases closer to, say, 98-99% (this will vary depending on the person). I personally would like to see at least a 90% overall success rate in your predictions, from a minimum of 10 events. Also, each event has so many variants (Richter scale reading, prior occurrence of daily aftershocks, etc.) that this type of prediction allows much subjective interpretation. Now if you predicted one earthquake to +- one minute, +- 0.1 Richter scale, +- 20 miles epicenter, at least one week in advance, it would only require the one event to make a 99.9% believer out of me. (I base almost all of my beliefs on a percentage belief system). Shannon Message: #216941, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Apr 22, 1994 6:03:01 PM Subject: #216023-books and ufos From: Dean Miller 75110,3417 To: westbrook 71705,262 Hi Bob, Thanks for the upload. I certainly noted the prediction and outcome. Even though quakes of that size (with no real property damage) don't get reported here, I'm aware that the prediction would have under 1% chance of happening by coincidence. Again, thanks Dean Message: #220894, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Apr 30, 1994 12:47:15 AM Subject: #220560-God is an Alien? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Jan Lamprecht 100100,464 Reply: #221226 (1 reply) #: 220560 S16/UFOlogy/Contacts 29-Apr-94 12:28:15 Sb: #220383-#God is an Alien? Fm: Jan Lamprecht 100100,464 To: westbrook 71705,262 > Didn't you point out that the Bible makes considerable references to some sort of genetic engineering and "superior humans". *yes Re: Genetics We are homo sapiens. Jesus was homo superior. He was also superior to the Nordics. This alludes a possibility he is not with Conman's group. All people are not created equal. Genetics determine intelligence. Those who state this reality are often accused of being racist. Not very popular in American society today. Ignoring truth, however, is the greater sin. At first it bothered me a lot, being called Racist. Its sort of like being called: Nazi. I've sat and thought about the issues for the few days, and my point is relevant, very relevant. In fact it may be at the very HEART of the UFO phenomenon. >Those liberals who point the finger and yell racist are, IN TRUTH, the racists. Those who are willing to sacrifice the truth on the altar of the politics of the moment are more dangerous than all the KKK and Nazis combined. They suffer from the hive mentality of conformity. Armageddon promises to rid us of these parasites. Call me a racist pig if you will, but I think Aliens have been under our bonnets and fiddling a heck of a lot. Why? (a) They're studying us (b) They're fiddling with us. To make us worse? Surely not. What's the point? To make us BETTER? Why not? >Their fiddling is to improve the herd. By improving our genetics and intelligence, they enhance our dna and become a more valuable commodity for their purposes. Since I see no external modifications: e.g. Abductees with 3 arms, 2 heads, or one eye. I AM THEREFORE FORCED TO CONCLUDE THAT THE ISSUE IS HIDDEN, IT IS MENTAL. Either they're fiddling with our spiritual &/or mental capacities. IOW, DEBUGGING US, APPLYING SOFTWARE PATCHES, BETA-TESTING and so on, and its taking a heck of a long time to debug the human computers. >Incorrect, they've got us wired. This has been true for a long time. >R U blonde? - odds are light brunette. IQ= 135? So here's my point: Are we different experimental models? Did the Aliens create a model of humans, leave them here, fiddle with them. Then come back later with another model, operating on slightly different principles, but still genetically compatible, and leave it elsewhere and so forth. Hence different people's have come and gone and merged, etc. What's so crazy about that? What's so wrong with that? Its not ME that's doing it, its the ALIENS. >Agreed. Re: Science Orientals and Whites have similar IQ's. There is no practial difference. Blacks, as a group, have lower iq's. In the US where race politics is the fad of the last 20 years, the move is to attack the testing process as being racist since blacks do not do well with standardized testing. Therefore, government has restricted the use of iq tests for everyone rather than to deal with the reality that one racial group appears inferior. No matter which yardstick you choose to use, blacks typically end up on the low end. I avoided this subject in my book except to the extent it was necessary. I used achievement and focused on Africa's historical lack of achievement to illustrate my point. What comes through clearly from the Bible is an ALIEN OBSESSION WITH A RACIAL GROUP. Why? Maybe the Aliens are Nazis! Heil Greytler! >Aliens are the architect of the brave new world. >Jan: You're much too defensive on the issue of race. Two rules apply here. Don't cast pearls before swine and don't waste time with idiots. With my limited (non-existant really) knowledge of biology, it would seem to make sense that if an Alien could abduct someone, do some tampering with his brain/genes, that that person could then produce smarter kids? Perhaps someone with more knowledge of this could explain whether my POSTULATE is valid, but that seems the CRUX of the issue to me. >Jan You are absolute correct. My son is much smarter than either me or my ex wife. Furthermore, he mother was sterile and only conceived after being abducted with me, and surgically fixed to correct her malformed fallopian tubes. Re: South Africa I can't speak for the Canadians, but here in the U.S. the liberal propaganda machine has indoctrinated the public to believe that all white South Africans are bigots and murderers. As we've been denied objective or truthful access to the facts of your country, you'll find sizeable prejudice here against your end - on issues surrounding race relations in your country. Bob Message: #221226, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Apr 30, 1994 9:58:00 PM Subject: #220894-God is an Alien? From: Alain Beaulieu/ASYSOP 70403,3645 To: westbrook 71705,262 Westbrook You inserted the header of message #220560 when you wrote your message 220894. Many if not MOST navigators don't like that because they then interpret the whole body of the message to be part of message you replied to and mask it out. So we were able to see message 220894 but it was seen as message 220560. Message 220894 itself was seen as blank. PLEASE, in the future, if you quote a message header, change the # sign by something else. That's what is at the root of the problem. Best, you don't even need to quote the header of the previous message as CIS keeps track of that automatically. See for yourself: | This is what causes the problem when in the 1st column. V #: 220894 S16/UFOlogy/Contacts 30-Apr-94 01:47:15 Sb: #220560-#God is an Alien? (This line indicates what message it replies to) Fm: westbrook 71705,262 To: Jan Lamprecht 100100,464 Alain Message: #220880, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Apr 30, 1994 12:20:15 AM Subject: #220815-God is an Alien? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Paul Winter 72122,2715 Paul: Re: God Consider this alternative thought. WE ARE GOD. Bob Message: #220878, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Apr 30, 1994 12:13:22 AM Subject: #220588-God is an Alien? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Alain Beaulieu/ASYSOP 70403,3645 (received) Alain: Maybe I've done it ass backwards. I haven't done too much reading. Of course, I've got the database - right? Bob Message: #221206, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Apr 30, 1994 8:19:17 PM Subject: #220384-God is an Alien? From: Shannon + Sara Smith 73521,3045 To: westbrook 71705,262 <> Many authors have spent years and years researching. Reading many books is the only way to grasp a topic. How is anyone suppose to form a worthwhile opinion drawing only on their own experiences? If we all did this, knowledge would never be aquired. Sara\ who believes that the religion pushed by mainstream churches is based on misguided interpretations of alien technology But God is the one energy/intellegence that binds life. Message: #220877, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Apr 30, 1994 12:12:02 AM Subject: #220587-Earth Changes & governmt From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Alain Beaulieu/ASYSOP 70403,3645 (received) Alain I got it out of a scientific encylopedia at a public library 12 years ago. Best I can do. Bob Message: #221261, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Apr 30, 1994 11:30:10 PM Subject: #220880-God is an Alien? From: Paul Winter 72122,2715 To: westbrook 71705,262 <> I considered that a long time ago and came up with what I already believed in: We are all of the same spirit. We are one. Only the awareness of that fact has been blocked from us so we will experience things more fully, consider life more valuable and develop the whole more completely. Message: #221306, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, May 1, 1994 2:49:13 AM Subject: #221261-God is an Alien? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Paul Winter 72122,2715 I agree in your conclusion that we have mind blocks installed to prevent us from 1. an awareness of our true natures and 2. to prevent us from using more than 10% of our brains. However, your belief that it is part of an evolutionary process is erroneous and seems founded in the halls of religion. As the religions of the world were supplied to us by aliens, it is rational and logical to propose that these were established because THEY had a need they wished to fulfill and obedience to a set of rules would achieve that goal. For instance, if you were in the business of collecting genetic goodies, the biblical injunction to "GO FORTH AND MULTIPLY" would benefit you greatly as you would have more cattle to harvest. If you had not intermixed your analysis of the facts with 'belief's you would have arrived at a different and more logical conclusion. Bob Message: #221302, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, May 1, 1994 2:43:00 AM Subject: #221206-God is an Alien? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Shannon + Sara Smith 73521,3045 Shannon + Sara: How is one supposed to formulate an opinion without drawing from the works of others? Interesting. You state your belief that religion is the product of misinterpretation of alien technology. This belief is founded upon a great deal of evidence is rational and logical. Did you come to this opinion on your own, or is it someone else's opinion? Can you site your own work into the subject or the investigation or do you cite others? One of the biggest problems in carte blanche acceptance of the work of other people, my own included, is that they might be wrong. By way of example, I point to your comment that God is the only energy that binds life. What evidence do you have to the existence of God? The God of Abraham was a high tech fraud - based upon the available evidence in the Bible. It follows that if you believe the doings in the Bible (Old Testament) were the contrivances of a group of high tech aliens, that you must also accept the premise that their leader "god" was also a misrepresentation. Which god is it you refer to then? The false god of Abraham? My point is that while the logic of the situation is apparent, you do not seem to have followed the trail to its logical conclusion. Instead, I submit, you have substituted someone else's conclusion as your own and in the process accepted an incorrect premise, that the god's of the ancient religions really were/are. While the trail of historical evidence supports the supposition that what purports to be hi tech aliens - can you site evidence to the contrary supporting the existence of one real God? Bob Message: #221460, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, May 1, 1994 2:51:09 PM Subject: #220376-God is an Alien? From: Jan Lamprecht 100100,464 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob, >>In answer to the question - Is God An Alien? The answer is NO - I'm living in >>Los Angeles. Message: #221458, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, May 1, 1994 2:51:30 PM Subject: #220384-God is an Alien? From: Jan Lamprecht 100100,464 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob, >> While I can see the value in exploring other peoples ideas, I feel it's more >>important to find your own. Seekers of the truth will always cross paths in >>their quest. Taken to the extreme, I've developed the opinion that the library >>freaks are actually voyeurs not really seeking to find a particular truth as >>much as to get off on someone else's life. Now you're TALKING! Finally someone who THINKS! I can't agree with you more. I used to buy one UFO book after another, and the same with Occult and other subjects. I crammed my mind with TRASH. I lived on other people's ideas, and was enlightened or as deluded as they. Today I seek EVIDENCE, and DRAW MY OWN CONCLUSIONS. I hardly read a book any more and end up agreeing with the author. As time went by and I finally realised this. I stopped. I don't buy many such books any more. When I buy, I buy discerningly. It has to be really worthwhile before I buy. CompuServe should be the ULTIMATE alternative to reading books. Live, deep, intellectual discussions across the world, as NEVER BEFORE. When in history could great thinkers on different continents go about their daily lives and still have the PLEASURE of one another's company at the touch of a button. Yet I find this forum filled to the brim with book freaks. Read this, read that. One liner messages clogging up the headers. How many messages consist of: Postulate + supporting evidence? This forum has the POTENTIAL to be BETTER than any book. You know what I found strange? I thought that UFO Authors and the CREAM OF THE CROP would be here. But, in reality very little THINKING takes place here. Literally every "Thinking Thread" I start causes a furore of some kind. I find so few people willing to sit down, think out an argument or postulate, and willing to examine all its facets. Am I the only person who dares to challenge anything? Maybe the reason is because I don't READ as much UFO literature (anymore) as the rest of you. Some people in this forum are so gullible. If they read a book regarding cattle mutilations: Cattle anuses are delicacies for Lizard Aliens on another planet and that the Aliens land, with knife and fork in hand, de-anus (my own word!) a cow, and eat it while singing "The Yellow Rose of Texas" backwards, and balancing on their heads, with the Loch Ness Monster joining in the chorus through a loud hailer, they'd believe it. Maybe its the American way. Packaged food, packaged thought. Want to think? Sorry! I can't do that! Where's my credit card? There's still time to go to the store and buy 5 tins of it! It says "This is what you may think, and this is what you may not think". A Thinking American once told me that he felt Americans were the ultimate conformists. As he put it: "A sheep's sheep." As far as I'm concerned CompuServe's potential is barely tapped. People just don't know how to use it. I'm impressed with what you did by yourself, and Lumir seems to be doing some sterling work to. Now THAT's what I call CONVERSATION. Too bad so FEW bother to do the same. Maybe it requires too much effort. Cheers, Jan-- Message: #221461, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, May 1, 1994 2:51:14 PM Subject: #220380-God is an Alien? From: Jan Lamprecht 100100,464 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob, >>God is a 5th dimensional creature with rather widespread influence. He has the >>bad habit though of not wanting to get his hands dirty and expects us to wipe >>our own backsides. Why do you say God is 5th dimensional? Cheers, Jan-- Message: #221693, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, May 1, 1994 10:09:02 PM Subject: #220880-God is an Alien? From: Kim Brockman 74353,316 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) I couldn't agree more. God isn't a SEPARATE entity, but rather a TOTAL entity. IMO it is more correct to think of God as Earth, than as a superior being guiding our destinies. He is the sum total of all the souls on this planet (universe?). The part of each of us that is God, is the lasting part. Christians call it the soul. Psycologists call it the superego. Some are more in touch and more aware of this part of their being than others, but all living things are joined through it. Whether or not aliens started the physical human life on this planet is a totally separate and unrelated topic to God, in my mind. It's also possible that the stories handed down generation after generation and finally became the Bible and other religious references, were exaggerations or stories ABOUT UFO visits. And, BTW, I don't either of those theories totally out of the realm of possibility! But God IS an alien? Not in my opinion, but keeping an open mind. --Kim Message: #221830, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, May 2, 1994 2:56:20 AM Subject: #221461-God is an Alien? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Jan Lamprecht 100100,464 Jan: Re: Conformity The move towards conformity has been a slow and subtle process. It is more akin to an acceptance of the 'hive' mentality of the Grays. In the realities of Armageddon, you'll find these folks poorly suited to survival. Americans are not as conformist as you may think. It depends on which part of the country you come from and the degree you follow the politically correct liberal doctrines. The pc beliefs do not value that which works over some fantasy of what it should be. This crowd refuses to recognize that the first rule of this planet is survival of the fittest. The hive philosophy, particularly when actively promoted by a government, provides serious disincentives to independent thought. I'm now 44. A kid recently asked me 'What happened to the old hippies?' My reply was, "We got haircuts and we're hiding in your computers, we're still here". People are people regardless of their nationality. Americans tend to be more of whatever is going on at the moment because with have the luxuries afforded by wealth. In India, most are scraping for their next meal while we can lay back. The luxury of time when directed to asisine propositions makes us look line the cow's delicacy you mentioned. I'd like you to consider, and have hope, that the real thinkers of the world usually keep a lower profile and don't waste their time with idiots. We accept their existance and then ignore them. I applaud you passion - but would counsel a little more tact. This comes to you from a person generally regarded as tactless. Bob Message: #221831, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, May 2, 1994 3:02:19 AM Subject: #221460-God is an Alien? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Jan Lamprecht 100100,464 Why is God a 5th dimensional creature? Logic derived from various sources. The easiest to quote would be the Bible. God is not of the flesh while his angels are of the flesh. Further, God is not here. Based upon the available information on ufos, there is a differential in 'time'. In my own case, my fingernails grow at an accelerated rate during the time periods of abductions. Therefore, time is moving at a different speed. Time is different, for example, in the area of a ufo landing and outside that area. Identical time pieces will record differently. This differential is consistent with what would be expected from craft or people utilizing a 4 dimensional reality. Furthermore, Angels (ufonauts) are immortal or extremely long lived. This feature would also be consistent with a 4D environment. Angels must travel to where God is. While God can't, or prefers not to, travel here. The relationship between dimensions comes into play. We can employ the 2 dimensional aspects of length and width but can not, through any natural means, make a physical leap into the dimension above our own. Therefore, we can downshift one dimension but can't upshift. Angels (ufos) can downshift into our third. By inference we would deduce they can not upshift into the fifth. God is a disembodied 4D creature OR he is a 5D creature who can downshift to the 4th and employs the 4D creatures to effect changes in areas out of his immediate reach. Incidentally, all these ideas also apply to Satan. If God were a 4D creature, and he would by definition be all powerful, he would have no need for the ufos, their people or their technology. The logic of purpose dictates that you do not create tools that have no function. To employ any 'angel' for any purpose implies a need. It follows that angels can do things that God can't. Yet, if God is all powerful he could do everything himself. As he doesn't - logic demands he can't. If God is a 5D creature capable of downshifting only one dimension, then the purpose for the angels becomes apparent and rational. They can perform tasks in dimensional environments outside of his reach. You will find it interesting to note that the Grays call their leader 'God'. The mythohistorical writings indicate that he is, in fact, Satan. Humanity, those who subscribe to traditional religion and the hive mentality, will walk gladly into the harvester's waiting arms thinking they are on their way to heaven - when they are basically the main course for dinner. If we carry the logic further, we can conclude that as we are outside of God's reach, we have only to deal with his tools and not him personally. ---------------- All this makes an excellent arguement against the existence of a 'real god'. However, Satan has restrictions placed upon him AND he obeys them. This fact alone, infers the existence of a power greater than Satan. One we might call God. However, we must also be mindful that any civilization possessing sufficiently advanced technology would appear to be gods to a lesser evolved civilization. The question is, "How gullible is 20th century mankind?" Bob Message: #221690, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, May 1, 1994 10:06:12 PM Subject: #220372-Reply From: Kathryn Kaycoff 73633,3352 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Looking forward to reading it. Kathryn Message: #221700, S/4 Spiritual Growth Date: Sun, May 1, 1994 10:36:15 PM Subject: #221304-Spirituality/UFOs From: Paul Winter 72122,2715 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Of course you should draw your own conclusions, but independent of others? How would you obtain any information upon which to draw your conclusions if you didn't listen to others? It seems to me that a wise person collects as much information as they can, from as many sources as they can find. Then their conclusions have value. Message: #221926, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, May 2, 1994 10:55:16 AM Subject: #221302-God is an Alien? From: Shannon + Sara Smith 73521,3045 To: westbrook 71705,262 I came to my conclusion about mainstream religions after listening to speakers and reading several related books. I always felt like religion was a means of control but I had not put 2 + 2 together the way Sitchen and Bramley did. I am not a scholar of ancient Sumarian nor had I studied the prevailence of the Masons, although I had heard of it. And I read more authors to hear more viewpoints. <> On this point I have formulated my own opinion. I am not talking about anybody's God, I am talking about everyone's. There is an energy that flows through everything. The way I figure it, we are pieces of God experiencing life. In the beginning there was only infinite nothing. The energy that spontaneously developed is God. God wanted to experience beingness and formed stars. The stars caused planetary systems to form. Life is everywhere. All is one. SARA (not Shannon, his view is slightly different) Message: #222960, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, May 4, 1994 1:32:12 AM Subject: God is an Alien? From: Dean Miller 75110,3417 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #223005 (1 reply) Hi again Bob, Sorry to be so late on this subject -- couldn't find the right part of the thread yesterday. >> I've noticed that when someone comes up with an idea in a >> particular genre, someone else usually refers them to some book >> or another. I can't answer for anyone else, but I refer people to books as a place to get facts backing up certain logical arguments. I may make certain statements followed by my conclusion (hopefully, a logical conclusion) and reference books or articles where the original statements were made or the "generally recognized" facts to back up my statements. You have an advantage many people here don't. You are the repository for your own facts (due to the abductions and the viewing of future news programs). Your reference is yourself. I have not been abducted and am not psychic (I know, everyone's psychic -- I just don't get any information from that direction) so I can't refer to myself as the source of most facts. I have to refer to astronomers, geologists, archaeologists, prophets and so on. Even when I come up with an idea that is original to me, if I run across the same idea in a book (or on the forum), I will attribute the idea to the other person. This is not just being humble, it's realizing that the other person probably had the idea before I did. Dean Message: #223005, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, May 4, 1994 5:19:24 AM Subject: #222960-God is an Alien? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Dean Miller 75110,3417 Dean: I don't think you got my point. I do accept outside reference sources. My book is filled with research on historical facts etc. No one person can know everything. However, I've noted that people assume others opinions without giving them much thought. A fact is a fact and given some sort of evidence and be infered to be a fact. Opinions are much more nebulous. Books citing other's opinions have the same value as an oral contract. They aren't worth the paper they're printed on. In my work, I've laid a foundation of fact as the basis for MY opinion. Everyone and their mother is free to disagree. Now if someone cites my opinion as a source, it is flimsy and not evidencary. So it is with the works of others. The reader in search of the truth must glean the facts from the opinions and develope his own. Otherwise, he is little more than a follower looking for the leader of the week. Bob Message: #223280, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, May 4, 1994 6:23:25 PM Subject: #223005-God is an Alien? From: Mark Roberts 74227,1642 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob, In an earlier thread, you mentioned that your "future glipmse" given you by the ETs included something about Clinton not finishing his appointment. Do you know anything about who will follow Clinton(excluding Gore of course). I apologize If you posted this and I missed it. I read about 90% of the threads but I don't remember this particular subject. -Mark Message: #223628, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, May 5, 1994 12:58:08 PM Subject: #223280-God is an Alien? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Mark Roberts 74227,1642 In my book I've said that Clinton and Hillary are abductees. Ufos aided in Clinton's election and expect him to crash and burn. In doing so, he pulls the thread that unravels world stability - setting the stage and atmosphere of Armageddon. Following him will be chaos. Bob Message: #224152, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, May 6, 1994 4:32:17 PM Subject: #223210-UFO "HYBRIDS" From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Xanadu 75320,3227 Xandu: Pressure is not necessarily a function of weight. At the center of the planet, you have simple electricity being generated by the core's movement within its own magnetic field. This juice runs into impure conductors resulting in resistance (heat). Therefore the HEAT builds pressure. Bob Message: #224186, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, May 6, 1994 6:06:12 PM Subject: #224152-UFO "HYBRIDS" From: Xanadu 75320,3227 To: westbrook 71705,262 Hi Bob, Good point! It sure would. I think that the exact center of the earth would probably be a vacuum... C Ya Xan Message: #224326, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, May 7, 1994 12:30:12 AM Subject: #221831-God is an Alien? From: Michael Borger 71736,3374 To: westbrook 71705,262 I had a recent incident where I checked my watch and it was almost exactly twelve hours slow. The date tipped me off, but the time was OK. I wound the hands past the next 12 and I was on the right day. This has happened to me at least six or eight times the last ten years. My wife also notices her watch is periodically 10 minutes slow and has to correct it. Until I read your missives here, I attributed it to batteries fading or whatever, but that can't be because once you correct the time the watches go normal again. I also have noticed that occasionally my fingernails seem to grow long in a very short time. Could these be indications of something going on? Regards... Mike Borger Message: #224327, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, May 7, 1994 12:31:05 AM Subject: #224186-UFO "HYBRIDS" From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Xanadu 75320,3227 X Vaccum at the center? As gravity concentrates matter at the center, I think that would be unlikely. However, I'll put my trunks on and go for a swim down there to find out. Bob Message: #224510, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, May 7, 1994 2:27:23 PM Subject: #224327-UFO "HYBRIDS" From: Xanadu 75320,3227 To: westbrook 71705,262 Hi Bob! Thanks. Please be sure to wear your swin fins! C Ya Xan Message: #224472, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, May 7, 1994 11:59:20 AM Subject: ufo detectors From: Buzz Lange 76646,2532 To: westbrook 71705,262 Robert! >> Send self addressed envelope and a 3 1/2 inch disk to Robert >> Westbrook 8707-D Lindley #125 Northridge, CA 91325 Is that offer good for Floridians too? I'd sure like a copy--OK to send? Buzz. Message: #224527, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, May 7, 1994 3:49:13 PM Subject: #224326-God is an Alien? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Michael Borger 71736,3374 Reply: #224586 (1 reply) Mike: It's a good indicator of an abduction but I wouldn't take it as proof positive. Missing time is always a factor. It's one of the reasons they prefer to bag us from our bedrooms. It's a place where we go to misplace time. Have you woken up in the morning with scratches you didn't have when you went to bed? Do you you have kids? Are you or the wife of Irish and/or native American decent? Do you have the dreams? Bob PS. Time aboard a ufo is accelarated relative to ours, thus the rapid fingernail growth. Message: #224586, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, May 7, 1994 7:48:17 PM Subject: #224527-God is an Alien? From: Peter Partridge/ASYSOP 70762,1512 To: westbrook 71705,262 As a direct descendent of two Irish lineages I was intrigued by Derrel Sims' comment that 45% of his abductee clients are of Irish/Native Indian descent (UFO Library April/May 1994 pg. 33). As I recall you mentioning Sims as your therapist, as did Rob Sheppard - another member abductee here - I wonder how that statistic compares to the general population. I also wonder what significance that selection has. In my own family we have both Irish and Native Indian roots, and both cultures have contributed the propensity for, and use of, psi powers. I have often noticed that this psi capability seems to be a homing signal of sorts to UFO, or a prerequisite sometimes for the clearer perception of them. Any thoughts on this Bob? How about your own geneology! Pete Message: #224528, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, May 7, 1994 3:50:11 PM Subject: #224472-ufo detectors From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Buzz Lange 76646,2532 Buzz go for it. Message: #224690, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, May 7, 1994 11:35:10 PM Subject: #224586-God is an Alien? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Peter Partridge/ASYSOP 70762,1512 (received) Reply: #224767 (1 reply) My lineage is French/Indian. I'm of the opinion that any Euro-Indian combination works for the ufo criteria. I can't speak for other tribes, but mine (Choctau) seem to have a different perceptual slant on the world. It poses some difficulties in dealing with a white oriented culture. While I appear white, what goes on in my head is decidely different. This gave me some problems in high school on conceptual matters until I learned the key to success - don't listen to anything the teachers had to say, read the book and figure it out for myself. This resulted in a 3.8 grade average. The Indian factor is, I feel, important. Combined with this is intelligence. The greater the iq, the greater the mental abilities possible - psi included. It seems that those of Euro decent are prime targets for abuduction followed by the various oriental races. The intelligence factor is the key. However, in the Armageddon scenario - a portion of us are going to be extracted to do battle with the bad guys on their own turf. My feeling and expectation is that the ability to communicate on their level (telepathic) is mandatory. Again a function of intelligence. Bob Message: #224767, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, May 8, 1994 8:29:25 AM Subject: #224690-God is an Alien? From: Wayne Walusiak/IL 72366,421 To: westbrook 71705,262 re: a portion of us our going to be extracted to do battle with the 'bad guys' on thier own turf! WHOA, come by that again ? With some more thoughts, please ? Besides the 'intelligence and telepathy' quotient, how is this gonna happen ? Is there an 'IQ' floor or top ? Thanks ! WW Message: #225143, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, May 9, 1994 1:10:01 AM Subject: #224767-God is an Alien? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Wayne Walusiak/IL 72366,421 (received) WW: The floor on the iq is 125. There are two groups scheduled for extraction. The first are those who have sold their free will. They will be taken as an expanded workforce to impliment Armageddon. The others (2000 of them) will be those who 1. have high iq. 2. haven't sold out and 3 are, by temperment, warriors. They will do battle with the bad guys. Bob Message: #225392, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, May 9, 1994 5:03:13 PM Subject: #223628-God is an Alien? From: Paul (TX) 72102,724 To: westbrook 71705,262 What an interesting topic! I would like to know the name of your book. Where u abducted? Sorry if this is a redundant question! -- John Message: #225467, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, May 9, 1994 7:46:14 PM Subject: #225143-God is an Alien? From: Dean Miller 75110,3417 To: westbrook 71705,262 Hi Bob, >> 1. have high iq. 2. haven't sold out and 3 are, by temperment, >> warriors. I would think 1. and 3. just might be not too compatible (maybe that's why only 2000). Dean Message: #225633, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, May 10, 1994 3:25:29 AM Subject: #225467-God is an Alien? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Dean Miller 75110,3417 No Dean. High intelligence and a willingness to fight are not in conflict. An intelligent person realizes that the first rule of life is survival. The second is survival of the fittest. The liberal left grow weakness under the guise of civilized behavior and demand conformity of thought, word and deed so as to create an ant colony environment. My warriors are not of this clan. Bob Message: #225632, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, May 10, 1994 3:22:00 AM Subject: #225392-God is an Alien? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Paul (TX) 72102,724 Paul. 1. A survivors guide to armageddon. A sample is in the download section. 2. Abducted - yes. Bob Message: #225637, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, May 10, 1994 4:05:03 AM Subject: #223628-God is an Alien? From: JULIO GRAHAM 100100,2107 To: westbrook 71705,262 >>thread that unravels world stability - setting the stage and atmosphere of >>Armageddon. Following him will be chaos. Strange as it may seem, this is probably the biggest problem to face the USA in the next couple of years. Even if the aliens don't crash and burn Clinton, I'm sure the American Press and public will do a good job. God knows how these Commies get elected anyway. Julio Message: #225822, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, May 10, 1994 4:29:00 PM Subject: #225633-God is an Alien? From: Bob P./UFOLOGY 75310,3312 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #225843 (2 replies) >>An intelligent person realizes that the first rule of life is survival. The second is survival of the fittest.<< I would think that a really advanced being would have mutual cooperation in there somewhere. Message: #225850, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, May 10, 1994 5:44:23 PM Subject: #225822-God is an Alien? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Bob P./UFOLOGY 75310,3312 Bob P. One may always think what they wish and hope for the best. Never the less, the universe 'as we know it' is not very forgiving. Bob Message: #225811, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, May 10, 1994 4:04:20 PM Subject: #225632-God is an Alien? From: Paul (TX) 72102,724 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Thanks for replying. I look forward to the book. Paul Message: #225933, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, May 10, 1994 9:10:10 PM Subject: God is an Alien? From: Gerry Deddo 71510,2737 To: westbrook 71705,262 <> Bob, What's a mind block? Is this some form of neurotransmitter difficency or a lack of genes or specific genes to prevent certain kinds of thinking? <> Who are these 'Bad Guys'? One of the benefits of a IS is that when I collect most of the thread, I have an opportunity to read a continuous dialogue. This allows me to know and attempt to understand a person longitudinally via their responses. Some time ago we had a fellow posting things about porpoise (Ebe's) and lizzard people comming to earth to crush us. And that we were placed here on earth by the ANKH people or ANK godess(s) to serve them as slaves. And now we have an abductee author (*REALLY NO* disrespect intended) warning us about the 'bad guys' with which the aliens are are going to conscripted us to do their fighting. This and all the other 'doom' scnerios are beginning to wear a path through the garden of reason. Can there be absolutely no positive aspects to any ET event? Why does fear and the degredation of us humans have to dominate these dialogues? I am not proposing that we all look at life through rose colored glasses, or follow the WORD and bury our heads in the sand, but that there is another side to this coin. America is on the edge of some major technological achievements. We finally found the Top Quark and the Unified field theory is about to afford us the ability to create atoms of choice, The large telecommunications carriers (AT&T, MCI, etc) are moving past 150Mbps modems which will afford us audio/visual telecommunications over fiber optic (cold wire). 3 dimensional memories can hold 3GB in a crystal the size of a sugar cube. The last thing I DO NOT want to hear is that "The Aliens made us do it" so we could have the tools to fight the lizzard people comming here in their hollowed out asteroid. God save me! Ger Message: #226086, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, May 11, 1994 1:21:05 AM Subject: #225933-God is an Alien? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Gerry Deddo 71510,2737 > What's a mind block? Is this some form of neurotransmitter difficency or a lack of genes or specific genes to prevent certain kinds of thinking? -A genetic reconfiguration tha allots the subconscious mind the bulk of the mental resources. Who are these 'Bad Guys'? -Download a sample of my book from the forum. A Survivor's Guide to Armageddon. > And now we have an abductee author (*REALLY NO* disrespect intended) warning us about the 'bad guys' with which the aliens are are going to conscripted us to do their fighting. -Incorrect reading. I am not going to be drafted nor am I fighting FOR the bad guys. All of those invited to the party will 1. Go willingly and 2. To fight the bad guys. > Can there be absolutely no positive aspects to any ET event? -Like what? The meaning of life, the truths of the universe. There is no prime directive and we have been messed with. The only positive thing I see is that we are becoming aware of the truth and have a slim chance at defeating, what can only be viewed, as the enemy. Why does fear and the degredation of us humans have to dominate these dialogues? Fear and degredation are choices as are the inverse of the equation. Answer = No. However, the truth is the truth and if you find it depressing - best opt for the rose color glasses. >but that there is another side to this coin. As I've said before, there is an underground in the Nordic empire dedicated to the overthrow of the power that be. The deal is simple. We supply the warriors, they supply the technology. Each contributes the aspect they're missing. >The last thing I DO NOT want to hear is that "The Aliens made us do it" so we could have the tools to fight the lizzard people comming here in their hollowed out asteroid. God save me! >Our achievements are our own. Aliens have no incentive to promote advancement. Instead, the contrary is true. Agreed we are on the verge of some technical advancements. The achievement of cold fusion will give us the power supply to traverse the stars. At that moment, we become a very real threat to our captors. It is in their best interests to see that we do not reach that discovery. The needs of survival always supercede the esoteric frontiers of science. A Sidebar - you have missed a great deal of the thread. Bob Message: #226173, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, May 11, 1994 10:00:07 AM Subject: #226086-God is an Alien? From: Nancy H. Donaldson 73323,2366 To: westbrook 71705,262 Wes, A mind block is a 15 second TV commercial, followed by another and another, then 15 minutes of prime time CACA dsigned to stimulate our lower brain functions with hit, sex, slice, sex, shoot, sex, run, sex, chase, sex, hide and occasionally suck our thumbs.... Nancy Message: #226185, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, May 11, 1994 10:11:12 AM Subject: #226086-God is an Alien? From: John W. Ratcliff 70253,3237 To: westbrook 71705,262 (deletable) Bob, You are way, way, way, further along in your understanding of the UFO phenomena than I am. While I'm still trying to get past, "ok, I think maybe the phenomena is real...", you seem to know who they are, what their names are, why they are here, what they have done, what they will do, etc. It seems like you feel you have all of the answers. How is that? When I can barely find personal sufficient proof that a phenomena even exists? It seems as though you have a drawn hundreds of firm conclusions, you absolutely know as truth, and I'm damned curious what evidence you have to form these beliefs? Is it channelled information? Ancient texts? Did an alien come up an tell you personally? I am NOT trying to be sarcastic. My point is simply that it takes a LOT of evidence for me to sway my personal belief systems, and I'm very curious as to what has swayed yours. If it is based on channelled information, etc. I doubt I would accept it. Additionally, just because someone reports alien communications, that hardly makes any of it true. Recorded alien communications throughout history that I have been exposed to is nothing but outright fabrications or gibberish. If you've chosen to believe in the concept of good guys, bad guys, Nordics and (I assume) non-Nordic's. I'm very curious how this belief has arisen. While I will download a sample from your book, I would like you to attempt to 'convince me' of your world view, but only with rational, scientific, argument. For example I had extensive conversations with Nelson Pacheo who wrote 'Unmasking The Enemy'. Pacheo has all of the answers TOO! He KNOWS that all of this UFO phenomena is simply works of the devil, great Satan. He KNOWS this as absolutely true. And anyone who believes in Nordic's and such nonesense is just being lulled into Satan's master plan of great deception. The problem with Pacheo's book is it assumed the reader was a devout practicing Christian, who accepted the bible as being a true literal historical document. (And I find it hysterical that anyone would take the bible as a literally historical. ) In short: What base assumptions are you making about my belief systems before I can believe your theory? What evidence do you have to back up your claims? Why should I believe your interpretation over that of a hundred conflicting ones out there? Why is it you feel you have sufficient evidence to draw these kinds of conclusions? Do you admit that much of the information you are basing these conclusions on could well be fabrications? (Read my post about the Christian cult to Alain, and perhaps you will catch just a glimpse of how powerful people can believe complete and utter fantasy as being literal truth. If you are going to accept a contactee's tales as being literal truth, you are entering very dangerous territory. It's not that the contactee is necessarily lying. They believe this material to be 'true'. That certainly doesn't make it so.) John Message: #226203, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, May 11, 1994 11:25:13 AM Subject: #226086-God is an Alien? From: John W. Ratcliff 70253,3237 To: westbrook 71705,262 (deletable) Bob, BTW, I'm starting to read the beginning of your chapter, and to temper somewhat my previous post. It looks like a GREAT piece of writing. I also think it sounds like an extremely good THEORY, one that might even be true. I've started reading some Sitchen, and I can see well you are trying to put a lot of information together. Many of my questions still remain. But it's clear you are trying to answer one burning question I have, which is what entity was responsible for Fatima, the creation of the Mormon religion, etc. These are direct influences. I am really looking forward to reading the rest of it. My questions from the previous posts remain. I just thought I might point out from reading just the first portion of your book extract, it looks like you are taking a very open minded point of view to forumulate a hypothesis. I applaud this. I will still harass you as to why you 'know it's true' though. John Message: #226212, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, May 11, 1994 12:09:09 PM Subject: #226086-God is an Alien? From: John W. Ratcliff 70253,3237 To: westbrook 71705,262 (deletable) Ok, Bob, I've read a fair amount of your treastise and I can say two things with confidence: 1. You don't really have the right to use the level of disdain you have for other people investigating the UFO phenomena. Your treastise is, as you admit, wild, unbelievable, etc. If you don't want your pet theories attacked as the ravings of a madman, you should be a bit kinder to those with other points of view. 2. You are clearly basing your assumptions on conclusions drawn out of the thin air. Whatever is convenient at the moment works as satisfactory for you to draw a conclusion. You take statements from the bible as if the represented historical fact. That's ridiculous. The bible is a document which has been written, re-written, interpreted, and re-interpreted over thousands of years by many different people. The words that have ended up in the King James version you quote do not match the original texts they were taken from. Of those texts they were taken from, archeologists have found even older previous versions, which say much more than ended up in you handy Motel 6 King James bible on the nightstand. Even if you go back to the original document, and attempt to make a literal translation, what is it a translation of? What real events are you assuming? How can you interpret myth and legend thousands of years old as true? And PLEASE don't bring God into it. I don't believe in God. Using God as a basis for a logical argument, completely erradicates any hope of you conducting an intelligent debate. If I don't believe in God, I can't follow any of your logic. If I don't believe in the words in your Motel 6 bible as being representative of 'facts' I can't follow your logic. I don't mean to say lessons can't be learned from ancient texts. And that some of your theories might even have a ring of truth to them. Hell, it may be an excellent hypothesis. But your tone! It's self-righteous to the highest order. It's not logic that's for sure. You can't conduct a logical presentation when it's based on using the King James bible as a literal representation of anything. You talk about the flood as if it were FACT. The creation of man as if it were FACT. But if a guy reports a UFO yesterday, that's the ravings of lunatics? While I'm barely prepared to admit that many RECENT UFO reports may have some validity, why, in the imaginable universe would I accept thousand year old UFO reports as being LITERAL!!!!! And if you are going to take these same texts and treat them as complete literal fact, and argue thus, how are you prepared to dismiss modern day UFO researchers from trying to reach their own understanding of the phenomema? John Message: #226235, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, May 11, 1994 1:13:21 PM Subject: #226173-God is an Alien? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Nancy H. Donaldson 73323,2366 Nancy, I don't watch the commercials. I'm too busy doing sex,sex,sex,sex. Just don't have the time to watch it. Bob Message: #226306, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, May 11, 1994 4:30:20 PM Subject: #226235-God is an Alien? From: Patrick O'Rourke 72730,2741 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #226311 (1 reply) You're busy doing sex, sex, sex, too, eh? Glad to hear it. I thought I was the only one. Just wish somebody was there to enjoy it with me, that's all! Message: #226311, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, May 11, 1994 4:37:26 PM Subject: #226306-God is an Alien? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Patrick O'Rourke 72730,2741 Perhaps I could be there to enjoy it with you. I'm short, cute and available. Bob Message: #226312, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, May 11, 1994 4:38:31 PM Subject: #226264-God is an Alien? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) I'm right now in the process of reading all of the Sitchin books. And while I haven't drawn any conclusions he does appear to be dealing with the original source material. For example, you refer in your King James version of the creation material to God, without acknowledging that the original Sumerian text may have refered to God's or Elohim, or whatever. I am finding Stichin's material very interesting. Though it doesn't appear to conflict with your basic theories, it does in detail. And he does refer to the original texts, not the bible diluted versions. How do you theories when assesing ancient texts differ from Sitchens? >After I had written most of my book, I broke down and read portions of Stitchen's. To be precise, I had a friend read it and summarize it for me. We seem to arrive at most of the same conclusions. He cites the existence of a home world on an eccentric orbit. I've made no attempt to reason the placing of the home world as it is irrelevant to the scope of my work. What is important is that using two different historical vehicles we arrive standing nearly on top of each other. This validates my point that serious seekers of truth will cross paths in the endeavor. I disagree with your analysis of the Bible. Bad addressing your question as to why I didn't use this verse or that verse, I thought it would be tedious, boring and irrelevent. My cites are there only to validate my premise. I could probably write an encylopedia of cites and it would not have added to the value of the book. So, I endeavored to keep it reasonable. The point is the discovery of the truth. I would also add that I have left a great deal of info out - deliberately. I did this so that I would be able to identify the rest of the warriors when they cross my path. Like me, they are being driven past the point of compulsion to seek out the truth. Bob Message: #226314, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, May 11, 1994 4:42:07 PM Subject: sex From: westbrook 71705,262 To: 72730,2741 Ignore that previous post Patrick. I didn't observe the header closely, I thought it was Nancy, the girl who initiated the sex post. Color me embarassed. Bob Message: #226379, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, May 11, 1994 6:43:22 PM Subject: #225633-God is an Alien? From: Linda Sorenson 75040,3433 To: westbrook 71705,262 <<..An intelligent person realizes that the first rule of life is survival..>> Geeze Again westbrook! Ya, I'd have to agree with this. Message: #226374, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, May 11, 1994 6:40:06 PM Subject: #224690-God is an Alien? From: Linda Sorenson 75040,3433 To: westbrook 71705,262 Geeze westbrook! Have you found that most abductees are of greater than average intellengence? (my IQ is supposed to be somewhere in the 140's give or take a few points depending on my mood! :) I don't want to fight the Armageddeon battle, so I guess I'll have to dummy up! bye... linda. Message: #226359, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, May 11, 1994 6:35:25 PM Subject: #224527-God is an Alien? From: Linda Sorenson 75040,3433 To: westbrook 71705,262 Hi westbrook, I thought it was SCOTCH and native american? GEEZE, I don't stand a chance, I'm English, Irish, Scotch, Norwegian and French... The french is French Canadian... and Great Grandma Mayhew had VERY high cheekbones, rumor was that she was Native American. Oh well... :) bye... linda. Message: #226405, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, May 11, 1994 8:02:03 PM Subject: #226266-God is an Alien? From: Alain Beaulieu/ASYSOP 70403,3645 To: westbrook 71705,262 When there is a large paragraph, you don't need to quote the whole para in the reply. You can say for example: >> 2. You are clearly basing your assumptions on conclusions drawn out of >> the thin air. Whatever is convenient ..... >> ..... If I don't believe in the words in your Motel 6 bible as being >> representative of 'facts' I can't follow your logic. Otherwise, the people from overseas who have to log in at $50/hr will be cursing at you! (They call that "netiquette"!) >> So what - I'm not asking you to kiss my *ss. Tsk! tsk! Please let's keep it clean! (That's also "netiquette"!) Alain Message: #226328, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, May 11, 1994 5:12:21 PM Subject: UFOBK.TXT From: John W. Ratcliff 70253,3237 To: westbrook 71705,262 (deletable) Reply: #226329 (1 reply) Bob, I've taken the time to comment on just some of the introductory portion of your book. For me it's base assumptions about religion and the literal interpretation of ancient religious texts, is too big a stretch for me to follow. But I would like to take the very beginning section and point out why I feel most people can't follow your 'logic'. I do not think we will be able to debate much on this subject because our base belief systems are so radically different. I do not currently hold in my belief systems your concepts of God, Angels, Satan, or the supposed factual interpretation of events recorded by prophets in ancient texts. Due to this I cannot absorb much of your material. Personally, I think there are grains of truth in what you have written. But it's the way in which it is presented that makes it so difficult for me deal with the material itself. >>Instead, the factual material provides us with an abundance of data on God, His mind, His deeds, and His intents. The factual material says nothing about God. It only addresses ancient BELIEFS in God. A major and critical difference. >>To analyze God, we must first have a working definition. Perhaps. >>All would agree God is all powerful. He is all knowing and there is no limitation to His power or his knowledge. No, I most certainly would not agree with this statement. Additionally, are you assuming the reader even believes in God in the first place? >>If you can concur on this definition, I can tell you unequivocally that the God of Abraham was not, nor could he have been, a God. This I agree with. Simply because the 'God of Abraham' represents Abraham's BELIEF in a God. A belief in a God, recorded in ancient documents does not equate to a literal record of a God's actions. >>Satan, an angel, comes with his peers before god. Therefore, angels are able to go to where god is. Since we can not, we infer they possess abilities we do not. Yet, there is an amazing point of commonality between us and the angels. We have the same DNA. This is kind of gibberish to me at this point. You assume I believe in angels already at this point. (I do not even know what that means or what the definition you mean by it.) Likewise, I do not believe in Satan, and you've done nothing to proffer a definition. >>It takes no leap of imagination to conclude the obvious. We and the angels are from the same genetic soup. Our DNA is well within acceptable boundaries for procreation. Inverse logic dictates another amazing deduction - we ARE angels. Huhhh?? Leap of imagination? Conclude the obvious? Conclude what? From a couple lines of the bible, I'm supposed to conclude this? It's way to big a leap for me. At least Sitchin quotes reams of Sumerian text describing the time, reason, and process that the Elohim supposedly created the human race from the existing 'ape man and woman' before he pushes the reader to MAYBE believe this is a literal interpretation of events dating back to the original 'adam and eve'. And just because Sitchin has interpreted some extraordinarily ancient texts into his literal interpretation, doesn't make it true by any stretch of the imagination. To justify the 'truth' of these texts Sitchin points out the many, many, instances where they were 'correct' in regards to information about the solar system that only recently modern day astronomers have been able to 'rediscover'. However, while you assume this is "concluding the obvious" to many it might well be considered little more than perusing some curious ancient myths. [continued in the reply] Message: #226415, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, May 11, 1994 8:44:04 PM Subject: #225850-God is an Alien? From: Bob P./UFOLOGY 75310,3312 To: westbrook 71705,262 >>One may always think what they wish and hope for the best. Never the less, the universe 'as we know it' is not very forgiving.<< And everyone is entitled to an opinion - as you have stated your above. Message: #226534, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, May 12, 1994 2:36:28 AM Subject: #226328-UFOBK.TXT From: westbrook 71705,262 To: John W. Ratcliff 70253,3237 (deletable) I do not think we will be able to debate much on this subject because our base belief systems are so radically different. >Agreed. The factual material says nothing about God. It only addresses ancient BELIEFS in God. A major and critical difference. >Disagreement. The Jews had personal intercourse with the purported almighty. >>All would agree God is all powerful. He is all knowing and there is no limitation to His power or his knowledge. No, I most certainly would not agree with this statement. Additionally, are you assuming the reader even believes in God in the first place? >If you're going to analyze anything you must establish the parameters of your premise. Otherwise, there is no point to be proven and no logic to employ. As I obviously don't believe in the god of Abraham as a diety, it seems obvious to me that I don't expect the reader to make that assumption. >>If you can concur on this definition, I can tell you unequivocally that the God of Abraham was not, nor could he have been, a God. This I agree with. Simply because the 'God of Abraham' represents Abraham's BELIEF in a God. A belief in a God, recorded in ancient documents does not equate to a literal record of a God's actions. >Incorrect on the subject of belief - again. And I feel you and I are going to keep coming back to it. The god of Abraham said I AM THE LORD THY GOD. He claims to be GOD!. Abraham's belief is irrelevant. >>Satan, an angel, comes with his peers before god. Therefore, angels are able to go to where god is. Since we can not, we infer they possess abilities we do not. Yet, there is an amazing point of commonality between us and the angels. We have the same DNA. This is kind of gibberish to me at this point. You assume I believe in angels already at this point. (I do not even know what that means or what the definition you mean by it.) Likewise, I do not believe in Satan, and you've done nothing to proffer a definition. Incorrect again. I don't BELIEVE in angels and it is not gibberish. The sons of God (aka angels) mate with Noah's daughters and produce a race of giants. Again, I don't assume (or care) what your beliefs are. >>It takes no leap of imagination to conclude the obvious. We and the angels are from the same genetic soup. Our DNA is well within acceptable boundaries for procreation. Inverse logic dictates another amazing deduction - we ARE angels. Huhhh?? Leap of imagination? I am not Stitchen nor do I wish to be. Comparing the two of us is like apples and oranges. As you what it takes to gain your BELIEF, I will once again state - your beliefs are irrelevant to me personally. The book was not designed to gainer believers or followers. It was written to inform. However, while you assume this is "concluding the obvious" to many it might well be considered little more than perusing some curious ancient myths. >Your premise is founded on an incomplete reading of the material. As you haven't seen the foundation laid for the idea that angels and humans have the same dna, the statements flowing from the incorrect reading are equally invalid. You seem to have a bone to pick here. In your first post, you misquote the material constantly using words like BELIEF and ASSUME. You make statements that are not reflections of my words again asking me to try and make you believe. This is an impossible task. I couldn't make you believe the sun would rise tomorrow even if I were inclined to try. that is the exclusive domain of what goes on between your ears. Comparisons to Stitchen are irrelevant and lack foundation. I didn't investigate his cultural interests nor will I. It is interesting to point out that you have similar bones to pick with his material. I doubt he's going to stand in line to pucker up either. You seem inclined towards an attempt to discredit my work. If so, I'll be glad to give you some help here. Assumptions and beliefs aren't going to do the trick. The only vehicle available to you is logic. As you seem focused on emotional facets, I suspect you may have some trouble doing this. So first logic. Second, you must accurately quote the material. That means dedicating the time to read and digest it. Third, I suggest you trot down to the nearest Motel Six and get a copy of a Bible. Fourth, If you locate a point wherein you believe I have used faulty logic or inferred substance from inaccuracy, you must be prepared to quote it without relying upon your beliefs. The point here is what I've written - not your reaction to it. I am willing to defend my work only to the point you are willing to attack it credibly. This will require some effort on your part. I suspect (very strongly) that as you appear to use logic as a tool, that you will fail and will turn your sword in me personally. I may be wrong, but it is worthwhile documenting the suspicion for later reference. Bob Message: #226535, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, May 12, 1994 2:37:13 AM Subject: #226359-God is an Alien? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Linda Sorenson 75040,3433 GEEZE, I don't stand a chance, I'm English, Irish, Scotch, Norwegian and French... The french is French Canadian... and Great Grandma Mayhew had VERY high cheekbones, rumor was that she was Native American. Oh well... :) bye... linda. Around my neck of the woods we call it a Heinz 57 mix. The quote reflects that more than 50% aren't of Irish-Indian extraction. I think the relevent combinations are more Euro-Indian than any one particular cultural grouping. The focal point is intelligence. Have you found that most abductees are of greater than average intellengence? >Yes. My personal experience is that I am running into IQ's from 140 to 165. I don't want to fight the Armageddeon battle, so I guess I'll have to dummy up! >I have a sneaking suspicion that not too many girls have been invited. Sexist bunch our aliens <<..An intelligent person realizes that the first rule of life is survival..>> Geeze Again westbrook! Ya, I'd have to agree with this. That's nice. Message: #226604, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, May 12, 1994 8:30:29 AM Subject: #226311-God is an Alien? From: Nancy H. Donaldson 73323,2366 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Wes, I think you and Patrick should get togather...... Nancy Message: #226603, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, May 12, 1994 8:28:22 AM Subject: #226235-God is an Alien? From: Nancy H. Donaldson 73323,2366 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #226667 (1 reply) Wes, You rascal....and they said you were crude! What little gray creature have you been playing around with....huh? Nancy Message: #226667, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, May 12, 1994 1:12:17 PM Subject: #226603-God is an Alien? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Nancy H. Donaldson 73323,2366 I save crude only for special occasions. Gray, however, isn't one of my favorite colors. Bob Message: #226611, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, May 12, 1994 8:56:27 AM Subject: #226266-God is an Alien? From: Nancy H. Donaldson 73323,2366 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #226668 (1 reply) Wes, Your full of it..... Nancy Message: #226668, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, May 12, 1994 1:13:00 PM Subject: #226611-God is an Alien? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Nancy H. Donaldson 73323,2366 Full of IT? r we being crude? Gee, I hope so. Message: #226599, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, May 12, 1994 8:24:24 AM Subject: #226314-sex From: Nancy H. Donaldson 73323,2366 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #226666 (1 reply) Wes, What sex post.....? Am I sleep walking again? Nancy Message: #226666, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, May 12, 1994 1:09:26 PM Subject: #226599-sex From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Nancy H. Donaldson 73323,2366 Nancy You made a post about tv commercials and sex. I replied that I was too busy having sex to watch commercials. I also commented that I was short, cute, and available. Unfortunately, I posted it to a fellow named Patrick and drew some embarrassment on the deal. Bob Message: #226793, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, May 12, 1994 6:44:01 PM Subject: God is an Alien? From: Linda Sorenson 75040,3433 To: westbrook 71705,262 >I have a sneaking suspicion that not too many girls have been invited. Sexist bunch our aliens GOOD! us "girls" will just wait til the battle is over and then, as the group who survived the war... well you can imagine the rest! That's the smart way to do it, why get battle scarred if you don't have to :) bye... linda. Message: #226944, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, May 13, 1994 1:58:18 AM Subject: #226793-God is an Alien? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Linda Sorenson 75040,3433 Agreed: Women shouldn't go into battle. I'd be the last to ask you to risk breaking a nail. Bob Message: #226969, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, May 13, 1994 3:41:03 AM Subject: #224806-Roswell UFO / Popovitsj From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Bob P./UFOLOGY 75310,3312 (received) Bob P. The official U.S. position on ufo is they don't pose a threat to the security of the government. This is true - they only threaten the people. Message: #226970, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, May 13, 1994 3:49:23 AM Subject: #225852-Roswell UFO / Popovitsj From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Henk Vedder 100277,42 Henk You ask for the proof of ufos. It already exists in the hundreds, yeah thousands, of witness reports of abductees and sightings. Yet, as human beings can't be trusted to believe their own eyes - it's not credible. It's fascinating that naturalistic observation is no longer considered a part of the scientific method. Although it is considered valid for near death research. Go figure. Message: #226967, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, May 13, 1994 3:34:27 AM Subject: ufo/virus/armageddon From: westbrook 71705,262 To: all Reply: #226968 (1 reply) Ladies, Gentlemen and anyone in between: Sometimes it's difficult to carry the weight of this incredibly inflated ego on my shoulders. However, if I don't toot my own horn (even a little) - no one else is going to do it for me. On April 12th I was asked to make a short term prediction from my ufo database. I came up with an earthquake in L.A. and posted it on CIS before the event. Now we have two more verifications available. In Chapter Seventeen of the book, I commented on the regular cycles of plague 600-700 years that I laid to our ufo buddies. I predicted that in the Armageddon equation plague and pestilence would be a factor and that like the Black Death, they would be incurable. Enter now two different bugs at the same moment in history. One a virus and a new incurable and heretofore unknown bacteria. The Hanta virus first cropped up on the Navajo reservation in the Arizona/New Mexico area last year. The bacteria has only recently been identified. If the person with Hanta get's in to a hospital quick enough, he has a 60% chance at survival. If not, a 100% chance of dying. Death stats aren't available yet on the bacteria. You may recall that the Black Death was carried by fleas running in the company of rodents. The cure for the Hanta virus (found in rat droppings) is a CAT. If you're in a position to get and keep at least one of these critters - it wouldn't be a bad idea - AND he should be an outdoor cat so he can do his hunting. Male of the species is recommended. Best hunters aren't neutered. Have to keep those aggressive male hormones on the job ladies. Bob Message: #226968, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, May 13, 1994 3:41:18 AM Subject: #226967-ufo/virus/armageddon From: Lumir Janku 72274,376 To: westbrook 71705,262 Gee, Bob, don'tya have anything positive? Lumir Message: #227063, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, May 13, 1994 11:12:14 AM Subject: #226967-ufo/virus/armageddon From: Rick De Lotto 72662,1375 To: westbrook 71705,262 Why doesn't the Great Influenza Epidemic of 1917 count? Incredible mortality, planet-wide... Besides, HANT has been known for years... at least since the Korean Police Action. Try MacNeils "Plagues and Peoples" for an excellent work on one of the least recognised driving forces behind history. Message: #227052, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, May 13, 1994 10:48:04 AM Subject: sex From: Nancy H. Donaldson 73323,2366 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob, Well, was Patrick embarassed? That is the question.... and Bob, about sex on the couch....you need to use your hands for writing and not fondling little grey, swiveled up creatures from unmentional dimensions. Nancy Message: #227088, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, May 13, 1994 1:05:24 PM Subject: #226968-ufo/virus/armageddon From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Lumir Janku 72274,376 (received) Reply: #227110 (1 reply) I do. But you wouldn't be interested in my Long John Clinton. Message: #227110, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, May 13, 1994 1:47:01 PM Subject: #227088-ufo/virus/armageddon From: Lumir Janku 72274,376 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) >But you wouldn't be interested in my Long John Clinton. Hey, Bob, very much so, even if I live in the "Great White North" (Actually I haven't seen snow this year in Vancouver). :-) Lumir Message: #227090, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, May 13, 1994 1:08:01 PM Subject: #227063-ufo/virus/armageddon From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Rick De Lotto 72662,1375 In my book on comment on the swine flu as a 'harvest period'. The death count was 20 million world wide. Actually rather small when you start talking Armageddon milleau. The black plague (1396) bagged 100 million. Bob Message: #227173, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, May 13, 1994 5:16:28 PM Subject: sex From: Nancy H. Donaldson 73323,2366 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob, HA.....I'll bet they do. Nancy Message: #227342, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, May 14, 1994 2:10:07 AM Subject: #227090-ufo/virus/armageddon From: Peter Partridge/ASYSOP 70762,1512 To: westbrook 71705,262 Reply: #227348 (3 replies) As a counterbalance to the Prophets Of Doom and their plagues, pestilence and pessimism, the odd imminent shaker like the Big One Coming To California and, of course, the arriving Armageddon as the master stroke of the malevolent millennium, let's instead look at the brighter side of unfolding Ufology: 1. Arriving Nordics as the bad guys will finally stop the sales of Barbies to prepubescent princesses and, in the process, permanently pound the artificial stereotype of female beauty into something more natural, more realistic and less-paranoia producing amongst the lovely ladies less endowed. Brunettes arise! 2. Bedroom plundering Greys with their paralysis probes will be abducting amok amongst the populace but New Age stores will capitalize on the commercial craze these little monsters will generate with a whole new line of Anti-Zeta Reticulan Amulets, abduction-proof electrified pajamas, implant dissolving herbal concoctions and PTSD pills made from natural Earth ingredients. Kids will be sold toy Greys to wreck. 3. The fear of virulent viruses and air-borne bacteria will make gas and surgical masks the new de rigeur fashion statement for Yuppies and Yahoos worldwide. Lipstick sales will dry up, the gloss will fade from cosmetic consumption and toothpaste and floss will fail financially. The new money maker will be Parisien parades of creative designer Masks. Former T-shirt artists will slap slogans on the muzzles and craft hand made jewelry to hang thereupon and hawk to the hordes. Mask-muffled muttering will be a new language and, then, a music mega-movement! 4. Anti-earthquake shoes with suction cups will begin another fashion trend. Stabilizing velcro straps for furnishings will decorate all the trend-setter decors. Bungy-cords will be worn as belts with large grappling hooks (to toss and secure to anything stable) will be worn around our waists. Trampolines will replace beds! Cars will be fitted with octupus-like arms as sticky emergency accessories and the air-bag will be passe'! The possibilities to cash in on population panic will create millionnaires amongst we, the Doomed! So, let your wild imagines loose - as loose as my unhinged mind here - and have fun with the ill-fated future facing us all! 8-} Pete Message: #227278, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, May 13, 1994 11:10:19 PM Subject: #226967-ufo/virus/armageddon From: Sara T. Allen 72164,3606 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #227321 (1 reply) Westbrook, > The cure for the Hanta virus (found in rat droppings) is a CAT. I agree with you that the best cure for Hanta virus (mouse urine vector) is a cat. BUT, here in New Mexico, the Black Death Plague capital of the US, cats are a known vector for bubonic plague and cat owner's are advised to keep their cats indoors. In other words, you can't win for losing! I have a cat, which I allow free reign of the neighborhood. The cat has to avoid the dogs, the coyotes, the owls and still survive the night. I don't know how the cat does it, but he shows up every morning at dawn with mouse breath. He even leaves little mouse heads for the dogs on the front steps. The dogs just snack them up when I let them out in the morning. I figure if I get Hanta virus or the Plague I'll either survive or die. Life goes on. Sara Message: #227321, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, May 14, 1994 1:24:03 AM Subject: #227278-ufo/virus/armageddon From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Sara T. Allen 72164,3606 Sara: I had such a country cat that allowed me to move into his vacant house in Tucson. To be sure, the survive the coyotes takes a smarter than the average cat. Mine liked rabbits, birds and, of course rodents - although he didn't leave the heads but the entrails, which "I" had to clean up. It was a rare occasion he returned home whining for food, but about once a month he'd roll in screaming about how bad the hunting had been. R U saying that the bubonic flea rides with the cat? This is the first I've ever heard of this. Bob Message: #227320, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, May 14, 1994 1:19:09 AM Subject: #227173-sex From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Nancy H. Donaldson 73323,2366 Nancy Only one way to find out for sure. Bob Message: #227509, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, May 14, 1994 10:37:31 AM Subject: #226944-God is an Alien? From: Linda Sorenson 75040,3433 To: westbrook 71705,262 Reply: #227530 (1 reply) <> Well, "Bob", that's a relief! Here I thought you were some crackpot, woman hating fa@... who attempts to derive some sick pleasure by taunting people via keyboard... you know the type... not a real man at all... or maybe just an author... with a different name even? Go Figure. Sooo sorry, my mistake, you really DO understand the "important" things in life :), pardon me while I go polish my nails... Linda. Message: #227576, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, May 14, 1994 1:20:15 PM Subject: #227320-sex From: Nancy H. Donaldson 73323,2366 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob, Yo have the wrong lady....please contact Madonna or Sher, or some other Bimbo on estrogen pills.... Nancy Message: #227828, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, May 14, 1994 9:24:09 PM Subject: #227342-ufo/virus/armageddon From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Peter Partridge/ASYSOP 70762,1512 Brunettes arise! > Blondes may have more fun but brunettes get the job done. Kids will be sold toy Greys to wreck. > Not very sensitive of you. I take it you're not a 90's kind of guy. Mask-muffled muttering will be a new language and, then, a music mega-movement! > Definitely not going to do much for spontaneous sexual aberrations. The possibilities to cash in on population panic will create millionnaires amongst we, the Doomed! > Money seems a little passe in your scenario - I'd opt for a case of barbque sauce and a six pack. Message: #227848, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, May 14, 1994 10:18:06 PM Subject: #227321-ufo/virus/armageddon From: Sara T. Allen 72164,3606 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob, > R U saying that the bubonic flea rides with the cat? I believe that the cats actually get the plague from the fleas on the mice, rats, prairie dogs, chipmunks or whatever. There were a couple of cases of feline plague in my immediate vicinity last summer. Apparently a sick cat can then transmit the plague to humans by coughing and sneezing. Sara Message: #227935, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, May 15, 1994 2:11:14 AM Subject: #227848-ufo/virus/armageddon From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Sara T. Allen 72164,3606 The historical opinion is that the cat was the cure to the plague. However, the supersition of the moment was that the cat caused the plague. Therefore, we killed the only creature that could have reduced the effects. Can you direct me to a reference on the subject? Bob Message: #228354, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, May 15, 1994 11:22:05 PM Subject: #228107-VANISHING TWINS From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Shannon + Sara Smith 73521,3045 Shannon and Sara I read with interest your bit on the vanishing twins. I have zip on the subject but thought it would make an interesting footnote that my son was born to a woman judged to be sterile. One of those interesting little coincidences. Bob Message: #228454, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, May 16, 1994 7:54:04 AM Subject: #227090-ufo/virus/armageddon From: Rick De Lotto 72662,1375 To: westbrook 71705,262 I would purely love to see certified -- or at least refereed -- demographics on either of those numbers. Message: #228408, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, May 16, 1994 1:53:06 AM Subject: #226967-ufo/virus/armageddon From: Stuart Nicholson 76702,2042 To: westbrook 71705,262 Hi Bob >>The cure for the Hanta virus (found in rat droppings) is a CAT. If you're in a position to get and keep at least one of these critters - it wouldn't be a bad idea - AND he should be an outdoor cat so he can do his hunting. Male of the species is recommended. Best hunters aren't neutered. Have to keep those aggressive male hormones on the job ladies.<< If you lived in my country you would be aware that we have huge problems with feral cats destroying the natural fauna. Some of these cats can grow to giant proportions compared with the normal household moggy from which they originally came. What's my message? Simply this; if you care for the environment and your native fauna forget the cats. Keeping a clean house will also help deter rats (no food no rats). If you must keep a cat, please get it sterilized and make sure it is kept inside at night. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a cat hater. I had a great cat that only died last year at the age of 15 years. However, I won't get another cat as I don't believe he could be that easily replaced. Stuart Message: #228556, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, May 16, 1994 2:55:16 PM Subject: #228454-ufo/virus/armageddon From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Rick De Lotto 72662,1375 (received) Reply: #228617 (1 reply) Rick Which numbers are you referring to? Bob Message: #228617, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, May 16, 1994 5:01:03 PM Subject: #228556-ufo/virus/armageddon From: Rick De Lotto 72662,1375 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob, Firm mortaility/morbidity data on The Great Plague and Influenza Pandemic. FWIW, I went to scholl with a Richard Westbrook. Kin, perhaps? Cordially, Rick/CT Message: #228554, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, May 16, 1994 2:55:10 PM Subject: #228408-ufo/virus/armageddon From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Stuart Nicholson 76702,2042 Message: #228555, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, May 16, 1994 2:55:13 PM Subject: #228408-ufo/virus/armageddon From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Stuart Nicholson 76702,2042 Stuart: I've owned cats for many years. I don't which country you hail from, but the only real problem I've ever seen with cats is the fact they dig a hole to bury their droppings. From my vantage point this is a plus. However, we have a critter here, California, called a tree rat. They hang out in the trees and walk the power lines. Keeping a clean house isn't going to remove their droppings from your yard. If you never go in the yard you have no risk of inhaling the virus. However, most people don't care to be house bound. If you cats are the size of lions - I can see your objection. Bob Message: #228665, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, May 16, 1994 6:13:24 PM Subject: #228617-ufo/virus/armageddon From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Rick De Lotto 72662,1375 Rick: The numbers on the plague and swine flu come to you from Colliers and Britannica Encylopeidas. Bob Message: #228675, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, May 16, 1994 6:44:24 PM Subject: Experiment From: westbrook 71705,262 To: All To all those who believe or know they are abductees: I'd like you to partake in a simple experiment to prove or disprove the idea that there is a collective subconsious mind at work with and between abductees. It is a very simple matter and confidentiality is assured. The results of the effort will be shared with all minus the identities of the contributors. Please contact me in email. Bob Message: #228959, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, May 17, 1994 10:03:17 AM Subject: #228665-ufo/virus/armageddon From: Rick De Lotto 72662,1375 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Thanks... try MacNeils "Plagues and Peoples" for an excellent discussion of these subjects. "poisons of the Past" (forgot the author, but it is newish) is a powerful discussion of the role funguses have played in history. Cordially--- Rick/CT Message: #228870, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, May 17, 1994 1:13:26 AM Subject: #228555-ufo/virus/armageddon From: Stuart Nicholson 76702,2042 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #228985 (2 replies) >>However, we have a critter here, California, called a tree rat.<< Bob We have possums that also hang out in trees, roofs and such. Yes, they can be a problem and I understand your point; what concerns me is that if these rats of yours are native to your region, then you are advocating the introduction of an exotic creature to reduce the presence of native fauna. Sure, the cats will kill the rats but they will also wreak havoc on native bird populations and other small mammals. We here in Australia certainly shouldn't preach to others as our record as protectors of native species has been appalling. Others though can learn from our mistakes and one of those mistakes was the introduction of the cat who along with the fox (also introduced) is decimating our native wildlife. Stuart Message: #228995, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, May 17, 1994 11:48:19 AM Subject: #228870-ufo/virus/armageddon From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Stuart Nicholson 76702,2042 Stuart: I can understand that as an Australian, your history with the bunny rabbit has been devasting. However, for us cat's aren't exotic creatures. We tend to view them as part of the food chain. We even have dogs that go after cats. At the top of the chain we have humans. The only ones going after us are liberal Democrats and ufos. Go figure. Bob Message: #229270, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, May 17, 1994 11:46:20 PM Subject: #228995-ufo/virus/armageddon From: Sara T. Allen 72164,3606 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #229275 (1 reply) Bob, In todays Albuquerque Journal (Tuesday, May 17, 1994) there is a story about bubonic plague in cats. It says that this is the third cat to get the plague this year and that the cat probably contracted the plague by eating an infected rodent. The case occured north of Santa Fe in Santa Fe county and officials are trapping rodents to determine the source of the infection. The cat will probably survive as it is being treated with anti-biotics. The other two case of feline plague were in Bernalillo County which is near Albuquerque. It goes on to say that cats can transmit the plague to humans by draining abscesses (YUCK!), by biting or scratching or by coughing if the plague bacteria has infected the cat's lungs. I am also planning on speaking with a veterinarian to find out exactly how the cat vectors this disease. I'll also ask to see if he can recommend some source material on this subject. Sara A. Message: #229275, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, May 17, 1994 11:55:17 PM Subject: #229270-ufo/virus/armageddon From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Sara T. Allen 72164,3606 Sara: Bummer.... R U in New Mexico? Bob Message: #229391, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, May 18, 1994 8:35:17 AM Subject: #228995-ufo/virus/armageddon From: Sara T. Allen 72164,3606 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob, > R U in New Mexico? Yep! I'm the one with the roaming midnight tomcat that leaves little mousie head presents for the doggies. And I am making every effort to avoid Hanta virus and the plague. I know I don't have a mouse problem in the house. There are lots of mice out of doors, theirs heads bear mute testimonty to their numbers. There are also prarie dogs, which are known plague flea carriers, and chipmunks, marmots etc. The greatest danger of plague comes from the prarie dog population and the greatest Hanta virus plague from deer mice which are scarce in this neck of the woods. We haven't had any Hanta virus around Taos which is where I live, but there have been some in the Albuquerque area which is about 140 miles away. The plague that really bothers me is the Taos Hum, which has been particularly intrusive recently. BTW, the hum is continuous and varies in perceived intensity from time to time. Sara Message: #229392, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, May 18, 1994 8:35:19 AM Subject: #228995-ufo/virus/armageddon From: Sara T. Allen 72164,3606 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob, > The only ones going after us are liberal Democrats and ufos. Hee hee hee hee! Liberal Demos, now THATs a plague! Sara Message: #229701, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, May 18, 1994 9:35:01 PM Subject: #228675-Experiment From: karen Brown 74223,541 To: westbrook 71705,262 I'm game. Message: #227826, S/2 Community Square Date: Sat, May 14, 1994 9:09:11 PM Subject: #227509-God is an Alien? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Linda Sorenson 75040,3433 Linda: Well delivered sarcasim. I particularly enjoyed the veiled reference to my manhood and sexual orientation. Bravo! I'd rather be friends though. Unless you're one of those man hating feminazis - you know the type - the ones who derive pleasure at the keyboard? I think I'll go paint my toenails now. Bob Message: #235369, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, May 30, 1994 7:51:05 PM Subject: Ruth From: Michael K Weise 100276,1741 To: westbrook 71705,262 Reply: #235410 (1 reply) Bob, Come to think of it, you may well be right about Ruth: What she has told me over quite a few messages has not been very consistent. Still, AFAIC it's in dubio pro reo. >> I'd be willing to help any one at no cost. >> I'm a private investigator Excuse my curiosity, but: how do you manage to make a living, if your job consists of helping people at no cost? Anyway, it seems you would be the right person to ask to explain to me a few points about phone tapping: I have lately been experiencing many weird phenomena with my phone, which have convinced me that it's most probably being tapped at least sometimes. Do you know of a means I could use to know exactly when my phone is being tapped and when it isn't? Frequent phenomena I experience include sudden, drastic changes in the transmission volume as well as the phone ringing but an immediate dial tone when it's picked up. I have been told that if someone is tapping my phone and I notice it, this means that either they are using amateur equipment, or they want me to notice. Any ideas on that? TIA, Michael Message: #235494, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, May 31, 1994 1:07:26 AM Subject: #235369-Ruth From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Michael K Weise 100276,1741 Michael: In answer to your questions. 1. I would not charge anyone for help on the subject of ufo's or abductions. Obviously, I do charge for services or I wouldn't be able to feed my face. 2. The purpose of my Ruth post was not to villify the person but to notice others that they may wish to think twice before sharing personal information with her. 3. What I really think about the woman - has been said to her face. Re: Phone tapping. People do not tape phones without a reason. Do you have a reason that someone would find your communications of interest? a. You'll never notice a legal tap. It's done at the phone company as the result of a search warrant or other court order. b. Amatuer equipment produces better results than the ones you describe. c. The easiest way to tap a line is at the box on the back of the house. There a pair of allegator clips and a small fm transmitter would be found. Within a 1/4 mile radius the receiver and a voice activated taped recorder would be stashed. d. No private party would attempt to tap in at the junction box down the street. e. Alternatives are small fm xmiters in the phone set itself. It means the person has access to your house. f. Another alternative is that you're unnecessarily paranoid. g. Or the copper wire in your area is in decay. These cables should last a couple of decades. More if the weather conditions are ideal. h. There is a fault at the trunk resulting in bad connections. i. Gripe at the telco and see if there's an improvement. j. If none of these things produce satisfaction, contact a PI who has experience with the subject. He'll sweep your house and check for evidence. Bob Message: #235620, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, May 31, 1994 10:34:11 AM Subject: #235494-Ruth From: Larry Keber 76356,31 To: westbrook 71705,262 About the phone tapping: I know of a couple of methods of turning the phone into a bug (to transmit conversations held within hearing range of it to somewhere else) which entails calling the phone #, getting someone there to answer it, then when the phone is hung(hanged?) up the line stays open. I believe that one wouldn't get the dial tone upon picking up the phone if this were done, however, but I'm no expert, just someone who's read a couple of books on spy/espionage techniques. Also it requires modification to be done to the phone itself. Larry Message: #235707, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, May 31, 1994 2:39:19 PM Subject: #235620-Ruth From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Larry Keber 76356,31 (received) Larry: I'll be honest - wiretapping is not one of my favorite subjects. Message: #236310, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Jun 1, 1994 4:05:09 PM Subject: #235494-Ruth From: Michael K Weise 100276,1741 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob, >> I do charge for services or I wouldn't be able to feed my face. Sounds very reasonable -- that was what I was wondering about. >> purpose of my Ruth post was not to vilify the person OK -- let's leave it at that. Thanks for the info re: phone tapping. >> Another alternative is that you're unnecessarily paranoid. >> Amateur equipment produces better results than the ones you >> describe. This makes it seem most likely that someone is trying to scare me -- which is what I had already suspected. >> People do not tape phones without a reason. Do you have a reason that >> someone would find your communications of interest? I've been wondering about the reason. Thing is, the phenomena I described started just a few weeks after I began frequenting the UFO section of NEWAGE. And I know of *many* others on this forum, who report similar things happening with their phones. Michael Message: #236660, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jun 2, 1994 3:32:06 AM Subject: #236310-Ruth From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Michael K Weise 100276,1741 Michael: If u suspect you're being screwed with by ufos - the usual questions arise. 1. R U now or have you ever been abducted? 2. If you don't know - do you have reason to suspect? 3. Do you wake up in the morning with cuts, scratches or nicks you didn't go to bed with? 4. Have u noticed unusual growth in your fingernails. 5. Do you a period of 'missing time' somewhere in your life. 6. Do you suffer from any mental illness or is there a history of illness in your family. 7. What is your racial background? 8. Do you have dreams of future events that ALWAYS come true. 9. Where do you live? Bob Message: #239298, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jun 7, 1994 6:46:20 PM Subject: Come To Newage.. From: Sunny 73171,626 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 Hi...Yes...I want on all mailing lists, and I guess I am officially "out of the (broom) closet" now...and an abductee. Please read my letter very carefully. I am definately scolding you...and you need it! This is too important, to allow anything to impeed progress. Perhaps, you will also see...that I am not afraid to speak my mind, and will do so with something I deserve as well, Bob...Respect. I'm here...or you can call me...808-676-7932...and can call collect...to let me know when you will be online... What is the best time to reach you at your private nujber... I will figure out this Sapphire...and be online in no time! Waiting for you in NewAge... AngelFish! Message: #239866, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Jun 8, 1994 9:25:21 PM Subject: Killing Grays From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Lunar Beam 72774,3077 (received) Reply: #239904 (3 replies) Lunar: Grays are easily killed. Were it not for their tech toys, we' be able to dispense with them easily. During an abduction, I kicked one in the face and punched out another before I was swarmed by a herd of the little buggers. Their bones are hollow and the have no stamina to physical violence. My blows would not have killed a human - yet the Grays just dropped like a load of cold manure. Nordics, on the other hand, are human and much more difficult to deal with. Bob Message: #239904, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Jun 8, 1994 9:56:07 PM Subject: #239866-Killing Grays From: Don Kircher 76346,3475 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #239925 (1 reply) Sigourney Weaver eat your heart out... Message: #239925, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Jun 8, 1994 10:38:08 PM Subject: #239904-Killing Grays From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Don Kircher 76346,3475 Don: Nah - Ripley still holds the record. Acid spitters are much harder to blitz than Grays. I bow to the superior hunter. As a matter of trivia, the little gray buggers smell like 3 day old urine. Bob Message: #239965, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jun 9, 1994 12:16:02 AM Subject: #239866-Killing Grays From: KANO 72774,3077 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Are you a survivor of multiple abductions? I'm sure that a semi-auto pistol would take care of an entire ship-load. KANO Message: #239982, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jun 9, 1994 12:59:22 AM Subject: #239866-Killing Grays From: PJ 73363,1075 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #240006 (2 replies) <> Ya, you betcha, especially us "Norveegins" from Minnesoota... :) bye... linda SORENSON, and proud of it! Message: #240401, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jun 9, 1994 9:16:22 PM Subject: #240316-Killing Grays From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Linda Sorenson 75040,3433 Ya LinDA I have a particular fondness of the cute little blonde Nordic females myself Bob Message: #240200, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jun 9, 1994 3:59:03 PM Subject: #240012-Abduction Defense From: KANO 72774,3077 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Just out of curiosity, why are you sending mail to me that's addressed to Lunar Beam? I am KANO. My UID is 72774,3077. KANO Message: #240204, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jun 9, 1994 4:16:04 PM Subject: #240012-Abduction Defense From: Anthony 73064,2766 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #240260 (1 reply) What evidence have you accumulated for the existence of this Grey other than your own direct observations and experiences? Photos? Video? Tape recordings? Intruder detection systems? -- Anthony Message: #240260, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jun 9, 1994 6:23:01 PM Subject: #240204-Abduction Defense From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Anthony 73064,2766 Reply: #240291 (1 reply) Anthony: The evidence for the existance of the Gray is myriad. Carvings and and icons of the Gray appear in many cultures from ancient times. However, in recent history, we have the reports of thousands of people who have had encounters with them. Traditionally debunkers now attack the credibility of the witnesses ignoring that the first rule of the scientific method IS naturalistic observation. You know very well that no one has ever video taped a Gray. I'm afraid this is the kind of thing that "You just have to be there". Fortunately, I'm not in the belief business. If I were, I'd start a religion and get rich in the process. My comments are addressed to those WHO HAVE been there. If you wish to establish proofs for yourself, your sole tool is logic. Doors do not slam by themselves. Floors do not reverberate unless some an energy is expended against it. The edge of my bed does not raise and lower itself unless some force is being exercised against it. Bob Message: #240291, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jun 9, 1994 6:54:20 PM Subject: #240260-Abduction Defense From: Don Kircher 76346,3475 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #240400 (1 reply) >> My comments are addressed to those who have been there .. and hope fully those who might be interested in learning from your experience. If the body of literature is correct, this will become an increasingly common occurance. dlk Message: #240400, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jun 9, 1994 9:16:20 PM Subject: #240291-Abduction Defense From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Don Kircher 76346,3475 Don: I've noted, based on my own personal experience, there are several distinct stages of discovery involved with being an abductee. The first is recognition of the fact that it has, in fact, occured. The subconsciousmind is perhaps one of the best friends we have. It discloses the truth to us in a form and manner that is guaranteed not to blow our mental circuits. First through dreams, uneasy feelings, unexplained paranoia and related - but not necessarily explicit imagery. As we begin to accept that we are victims, the mind starts cleaning up the images - getting rid of the metaphorical safety nets and letting us see these things as we really remember them. At each step of the way we run into a constant - fear. It increases as we continue digging for the truth. This, I believe, is a programmed response to keep us away from the core of the matter. Then an amazing thing can occur. While we have been mentally 'sedated' and rendered unconscious - we can transfer control to our subconscious mind, become alert and defend ourselves. It appears that we can xfer voluntary functions to an area of the brain that does not normally handle them. When this happens and we 'get loose' (their term) we have now become much more dangerous to them. Including myself, I've found one other person who has done this. Both of us have become the focus of intense surveillance. Both of us have moving objects in the house. Both of us have seen them. In the past, both have awakened naked when we should have been clothed or, in her case, her shirt on backwards. All these facts - lead to the present conclusion of abduction as there is no other logical possibility. On 2/25 I traveled to Houston and spent the weekend with Derrel sims, who specializes in abductee hypnosis. I returned on 2/27. That night I was picked up and again the following night. In both cases, they didn't get what they wanted from me. I had already developed the ability to transfer control to my subconscious. Derrel reinforced with the post hypnotic suggestion. At my request, he implanted the suggestion that I play possum in my subconscious and to pick my moment. Then to come up nuclear. He has planted other time bombs in the minds of other willing abductees. What did they want from me? Info on Derrel. They didn't get it. The levels of fear involved in getting myself to Houston can not be described as anything but terror times ten. I recognized this and chose to impose my will over the blind animal panic triggered in me. At each step of the discovery process, I have constantly run into the fear wall although I am, by nature, not a fearful person. Usually, it is others who fear me. I had the parts for constructing the bed shield for a couple of weeks before I actually did it. I procrastinated and that too, is not my nature. Finally, I forced myself to do it. The result has been POSITIVE. The little bugger is no longer here. This simple device neutralizes their ability to abduct a person AND remain risk free while they do it. As for this becoming an increasing problem. No. It has always been a problem of very large proportions. The only thing that has changed is our awareness of it. Bob Message: #240223, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jun 9, 1994 5:14:01 PM Subject: #240012-Abduction Defense From: Steve Quinn 70252,3563 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #240261 (1 reply) Way to go! Bob I am proud of you and George. I will have to try the cage thing, though how do you keep them from pulling the plug? Any additional information that you & George come up with would be manna from heaven. Thanks, Steve Message: #240261, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jun 9, 1994 6:23:03 PM Subject: #240223-Abduction Defense From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Steve Quinn 70252,3563 (received) Reply: #240418 (1 reply) Steve: When you hang the wire, leave yourself sufficient lead so you can a: reach the plug and b: tuck it up against the wall. I took me about 45 minutes of screwing up before I got the wire down right. A tip is to start at a corner hook from the middle of the cable and not from an end. This will make it a lot easier to work with. Bob Message: #240418, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jun 9, 1994 10:03:06 PM Subject: #240261-Abduction Defense From: Steve Quinn 70252,3563 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Bob: Thanks for the tips! You & George keep up the good work. Message: #240657, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jun 10, 1994 3:44:27 PM Subject: #240006-Killing Grays From: PJ 73363,1075 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Hiya Bob. < As a hypnotist in the L.A. area, I had enough encounter with the subject to make me want to run screaming from the entire genre of idea -- running, of course, while laughing. And yet... now that I'm in the middle of all this myself, and of course sanity becomes a pretty dominant subject , I see it a bit differently. And I'm able to look back on my life, all the way to being a small child, and see things in a new light; "dreams," experiences, etc. << Out of curiousity, what did they do to the guy who punched out << the alien? I dunno. Nothing at the time, but later. << Also, did the two of you introduce yourselves or have any << conversation. Me and the human guy? No, I was really ticked off at him, and I nearly decked him myself. I had been sitting in this "cell" with him and he'd been sleeping for what seemed like a thousand years, I'd tried to wake him up but it never worked. Finally I couldn't stand it any more and I went to tell the person - who was an alien, but looked like a female human - that was sort of the "warden" that I was losing my mind, and that they had to either do something with me or kill me because I couldn't stand just doing nothing for eternity. Just as I was having a decent conversation with the "warden," this guy finally wakes up and starts babbling all over the place and asking questions hysterically and would NOT shut up long enough for me to have a decent conversation. Eventually the male "human whom I knew was an alien" and the male human who had been in the cell with me were -- well it's easier to just describe what I saw because I have no idea what the hell it actually WAS: There were a few "porthole" type things on the wall, and I could see each of them behind one, and the cubicles they were in were filling with this like, blue gel of some kind. The human was motionless; I thought he was drowned. The alien guy was doing this weird breathing motion; I thought maybe he was crying. That was the last I saw of them. (Sidenote: since this time, I've had two separate "dreams" where other humans got into some kind of cubicle (or in one case, like a coffin) that was filled with some sort of gel or another, and they breathed it. I've gotten the feeling this is deliberate, like deep sea divers breathe liquid (it can be done, the right kind) to keep them from being killed by the pressure and other unusual conditions. Perhaps this is a means of transport. I think I misinterpreted it during the experience. ) < I should mention that nearly all my encounters see them as human, assuming I "see" them at all. And as children, sometimes. I guess I haven't gotten past the "guising" yet. Lately I've begun to see them as "actors" (beings who aren't what they seem); this is sort of my subconscious recognition. I'm still working on getting fully aware. Since my development in personal consciousness is somewhat unusually developed (ie, I lucid dreamed at will my entire life, and studied hypnosis for years), for awhile, when things were "not quite tangible," I was able to actually "yank myself back here," as if somehow "me" and "my body" were slightly separate things. (This always seemed VERY hard, and shocked the **** out of them.) Can't do it anymore. PJ Message: #240668, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jun 10, 1994 4:24:27 PM Subject: #240659-Killing Grays From: westbrook 71705,262 To: PJ 73363,1075 PJ: You know more than you think you know. You just haven't put it all together yet. When confronted with the unbelievable, the mind provides rationalizations and imagery to explain what you are seeing. It converts the unreal into something something understandable. I live in LA too. Call me at 818-772-6082. I'll let you download a full copy of my book. You'll find it useful. Bob Message: #240684, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jun 10, 1994 4:53:27 PM Subject: #239866-Killing Grays From: Starflower 73664,2411 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob: Do you know any Nordics personally? Is that just a random statement? Is the sky yellow? Is it June? Am i real? Do you lucid dream counting crows? Do you like Meat Loaf? Your grey trap, any success? See, I have the questions. Lunar> Message: #240656, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jun 10, 1994 3:41:17 PM Subject: Gray Defense From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Angelfish 73171,626 I am posting this as an example of what can be done to defend against Grays. Angelfish and I were in a conversation on cis when we both had Grays to deal with. Angel and I are 'connected' and of interest to the bad guys. The reasons for this I won't discuss. They can't get at me anymore and they were going after her in the hope of getting information. She lives in an isolated area of Hawaii - me in Los Angeles. I've cleaned up the language so the thought police here at cis don't have a fit. Angel was planning on putting up my shield on Saturday. Needless to say, she's going to get it up sooner. Where is lives is within a few miles of a ufo base. She is, essentially, living in spook central. YOU CAN FIGHT!!! westbrook: the f..king gray is back AngelFish: no... | there is something looking at me, Bob...I can feel it.. | I feel a stare..drilling into me... westbrook: i heard the thump on the roof - but thought it might be the | building cooling from the day's heat. I can feel it in the | bedroom. AngelFish: and I won't turn around... westbrook: yeah - they know we're talking. AngelFish: the cats kno | F..K | THE SECURITY LIGHT JUST WENT ON... westbrook: I always look - I need to confront the fear | ok - got a gun? AngelFish: thew security LIGH WENT ON... | NO westbrook: wake your husband up. | NOW AngelFish: the cats just knocked the table over,.,he didn't even stir! westbrook: wake him up if you can AngelFish: Bob...he won;'t wake up... | he;'s snoring his head off. westbrook: dump some water on him if you have to AngelFish: he won;'t wake up.. westbrook: water AngelFish: Bob.. westbrook: YES AngelFish: something's here | on the roof westbrook: get a knife to defend yourself | theres more than one AngelFish: light just came through the bedroom window... | the light wasn't there before...something westbrook: get the f..king knife NOW AngelFish: was blocking it before... | waitthere's noise outside... westbrook: GET THE F..KING KNIFE AngelFish: i cana't move from here. westbrook: THEY'RE GOING TO COME IN THE HOUSE | FORCE YOURSELF - USE YOUR INTELLECT | YOU ARE STRONGER THAN THEM | YOUR FEAR IS PARALIZING YOU AngelFish: THE CATS LEFT THE ROOM westbrook: MOVE IT GIRL | GET THE KNIFE | GO | GO AngelFish: no | it's | alright | ok | wait... | brbr | all closed up westbrook: what is AngelFish: this is really f..ked... westbrook: u ok? AngelFish: doors to all rooms | we're in the living room | that's where the computers are... westbrook: and he can't wake up? AngelFish: two of the four, anyway... | no | that's not like him westbrook: got the knife? AngelFish: I CALLED HIM NAME | AND HE'S NPT MOVING westbrook: did u touch him AngelFish: yes westbrook: shake him AngelFish: nothing | snoring... westbrook: try the water AngelFish: wait... | chewing on nuts...trying to focus,,. | he's totally disoriented westbrook: ok - he's up? AngelFish: no...asleep... westbrook: did you hit him with the water? AngelFish: his eyes didn't even focus... | nothing to drink, or anything... | just sound asleep... westbrook: ok - i'll stay with you | got the knife? AngelFish: yes westbrook: ok do you have something you can put over the back of your | neck? | something thick AngelFish: I didn't move any fans...but the ceiling fan started | turning...on it's own westbrook: the ship is on the ground - north side of the house. | they are physically there AngelFish: my digi-clocks just zeroed westbrook: the ship blitzed the power supplies AngelFish: get me the f..k outta here westbrook: did you hit him with some water | answer yes of no AngelFish: the power seems fine... | this screen didn't even flicker... westbrook: your clocks are lower power settings. AngelFish: but the clocks are all flashing westbrook: easier to trip | did you hit your husband with the water answer me. AngelFish: oh, but this does suck... | I wiped his face... | no I didn't hit him with it... westbrook: ok | what r they going to do - think bob AngelFish: he didn't even notice when the table went down westbrook: listen - u have to stay in where you can 'feel' them coming up | from AngelFish: they qre not going to take me anywhere. | f..k 'em westbrook: behind you. the always like to blind side us. | good girl AngelFish: my back is to a window... | not any more... westbrook: they put a small circular metal thing on your neck and it | knocks u out. | U have to do this strictly on instinct AngelFish: oh...that's what that "hicky" is... westbrook: hinky? AngelFish: hicky... westbrook: oh - okay you under stand | you're alert - that's one against them. AngelFish: looks like a love bite... westbrook: that knife makes u dangerous - one or more of them could get | killed. | They like to swarm u. AngelFish: got that last week...when I woke up without my | panties...and my T-shirt backwards westbrook: All four at the same time coming from behind. AngelFish: I feel them...u r right westbrook: They are doing us simultaneiously | if you see them, don't hesittate. | attack immediately. AngelFish: looks like we might meet, sooner that we thought! westbrook: no - these are not from the good guys. | Derrel had eight people picked up for interrogation at the same | time. AngelFish: i know... | i smell them, Bob... | I can smell them westbrook: they do this when they freak and know they'r out of control. | there's six of them total and one nordic on the ship. AngelFish: it's like their sweat glands.. westbrook: like stale p*ss AngelFish: they stink | how do you know what's here? westbrook: do you have any extension cord handy | what do u mean. AngelFish: how do you know...I'm wrapping the computer cords... | already doind it... | soibds like something growled... westbrook: don't restrict your move ment. AngelFish: no way. westbrook: that's a grey - he's p*ssed - mine growled at me the night I | put up the | shield AngelFish: I put the other cpu between me and the window, westbrook: good. Get some wiring around your body. This will force them to AngelFish: and I'm sitting on bernard westbrook: physically materialize if they want to snatch you. AngelFish: putting wire around us westbrook: Give u a chance to kill em. AngelFish: Nintnedo tv has long witrres.. westbrook: kill them | ok do it AngelFish: turned it opn...wrapping wire, as i typre westbrook: focus on your neck AngelFish: send me a picture, at once. | I have to have a face to focus on | are you sure you're white, | not gray westbrook: looks like we're going to be up all night | Actually - I'm pink AngelFish: Bob...I feel a "quiet"... | too calm... westbrook: ok - they weren't expecting this | they thought it would be a cake walk | they're rethink whether they should go in AngelFish: wrong... westbrook: ok - what's your angle. AngelFish: dog's growling at door and window... westbrook: u have a dog? AngelFish: two westbrook: good | he's defending? | use his instinct - he see's them AngelFish: the Rottie is going nuts westbrook: good - keep them near you | i didn't know u had dogs AngelFish: I have a champion line Rottie... | 18 best in shows in his line westbrook: use his instincts. The odds have just gotten better. 6 to 3. AngelFish: and a terrier, chi-mix... | she weighs 5 lbs... | and runs the house! | she's the defender westbrook: they're loyal. AngelFish: her hair along her spine is up westbrook: they'll go down fighting with u. AngelFish: and she won't leave my side | her name is Yoda westbrook: do you have a camera handy AngelFish: yes... westbrook: flash? AngelFish: always, since we saw that ship in March... | yes | Captiva westbrook: ok - get it AngelFish: got it, first westbrook: ok, the next time you feel something at the window, turn | around and | click fast | shoot from the hip. AngelFish: ok westbrook: is it autofocus? AngelFish: yes | it's open and ready westbrook: ok - maybe we can get something here. | good girl | how u feeling AngelFish: i hafta go to the bathroom... | but i'm not... | i hope westbrook: good - i'd prefer you wait. AngelFish: you'd prefer.. westbrook: we don't do time outs in the middle of battle for a potty | break. AngelFish: I'm not leaving here... | if it's not them...it's a burgler... westbrook: good idea. You're in the only room of the house they can't use | beam | on. AngelFish: something's outside of this room westbrook: In the house? AngelFish: out | north wall | like you said westbrook: what's yourphone number I'll call u voice AngelFish: how'd you know? | only one line | ***-***-**** | should i call u? westbrook: okay disconnect - I'll call u right back | ok AngelFish: 'k Message: #240710, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jun 10, 1994 6:31:20 PM Subject: #240400-Abduction Defense From: Don Kircher 76346,3475 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) I don't doubt that it has been a large scale operation. My comment on the phenomena increasing in scale is based on the assumption that they are returning in the near future in force to reassert control over the population. "Winning the hearts and minds" to borrow a phrase from another unsuccessful invasion in recent memory. My personal feeling is that this is not about covert control, but rather, indirect terrorism of a much larger audience. Gotta admit, it is highly effective. Along with what ever else is on the agenda. My thoughts and prayers are with you, and the other lurking members of this club Message: #240871, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Jun 11, 1994 12:08:24 AM Subject: #240260-Abduction Defense From: Anthony 73064,2766 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #240884 (3 replies) >> Doors do not slam by themselves. Floors do >> not reverberate unless some an energy is >> expended against it. The edge of my bed does >> not raise and lower itself unless some force >> is being exercised against it. Quite correct. That's why, if I see any of these things happening, I assume that it is my perception/cerebration that has gone haywire first, until and unless I see evidence that what I saw actually occurred (something I can take a picture of, something I can show to other people). This is one reason why, if I ever see a UFO, I want to see it in the company of lots of other people, who can provide external evidence that the UFO was actually there by corroborating my observations. It doesn't matter how real it looks--if there's no residual evidence of its passage, and if no one else saw it, I'll assume that I imagined it. -- Anthony Message: #240884, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Jun 11, 1994 12:59:04 AM Subject: #240871-Abduction Defense From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Anthony 73064,2766 (received) Reply: #241073 (1 reply) Anthony: The difference between us is that while you are willing to accept that you are not competitent to witness and event, I AM willing to believe my own lying eyes. Based on your criteria, you have constructed a scenario wherein you will never have to deal with the issues EVEN IF you to see one. In answer to your question of do I have photos etc. I submit your logic is faulty. I do not have photos of you. Ergo you do not exist. Even if I DO sometime see you, unless it is in the company of witnesses who can verify the sighting I absolutely won't believe in your existence. It follows that it is unlikely I will have proof of your existence. My question to you is this. Why do you think you feel this way? Bob Message: #241073, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Jun 11, 1994 1:02:16 PM Subject: #240884-Abduction Defense From: Anthony 73064,2766 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #241194 (1 reply) >> The difference between us is that while >> you are willing to accept that you are >> not competitent to witness and event, I >> AM willing to believe my own lying eyes. The difference between us is that I do not trust my easily-deceived senses outside of fairly normal situations. Statistically, if I see a little gray humanoid at the foot of my bed, it is much more likely that I am hallucinating as part of some transient mental disturbance than it is that the humanoid is real. The number of people suffering from psychoses in the world far outnumbers the number of people who claim to have been abducted. >> Based on your criteria, you have constructed a >> scenario wherein you will never have to deal >> with the issues EVEN IF you to see one. I simply recognize that seeing a gray humanoid is not proof that it exists, and conversely, the fact that it is possible to imagine seeing a gray humanoid is not proof that any such occurrence is hallucination rather than an objective observation. However, statistically, hallucination is more likely than real observation. For every person who may have actually seen an ET, there are thousands who hallucinate that they see and talk to ETs every day. >> In answer to your question of do I have photos >> etc. Now that's much more interesting! What is visible in the photos? Have you shown them to others? Have you ever considered scanning them and uploading them here? >> I submit your logic is faulty. I do not have >> photos of you. Ergo you do not exist. You cannot know that I actually exist, especially in cyberspace. In fact, it is entirely possible that I myself am an ET, deliberately testing you in your convictions. It's very easy to do, you know. Of course, you will tend to believe that I am a real human being in front of a PC, and not a computer simulation or an ET, but that is only because you find the idea of me being a real human being to be much more acceptable than the other two possibilities, based on prior experience. >> Even if I DO sometime see you, unless it is in the >> company of witnesses who can verify the sighting >> I absolutely won't believe in your existence. That is your prerogative. I may be a figment of your imagination. Note, however, that if I look like all other human beings, logically you must either accept my reality, or question your perception of all human beings. This is in contrast to seeing an ET, which is very different from seeing human beings, and thus questioning the observation of an ET does not require questioning the observation of all human beings. >> My question to you is this. Why do you think you >> feel this way? Because I am prudent, and I try to keep my own limits and capabilities in perspective through continual analysis. -- Anthony Message: #241194, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Jun 11, 1994 4:32:02 PM Subject: #241073-Abduction Defense From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Anthony 73064,2766 Anthony: I think you missed my point. Using your premise, it is not possible to establish your own existence much less anyone else's. I submit the following explanations for your belief structure. 1. You are an abductee. 2. All abductee's are told not to remember. 3. All are told that a belief in ufo's is a sign of mental illness. 4. All are told that if they talk about it - people will believe they are crazy. By way of a collorary issue, I will demonstrate approrpriate logic Near - Death Experiences. 1. Observation is part of the scientific method - therefore acceptable. 2. When number X people consistantly see the same things over and over again, it establishes a statistical basis from which we may infer facts not obvious to the eye. 3. It falls to the scientist to screen his observers for proof his observers are or are not mentally ill. Back to ufos and little gray men. 1. There are thousands of observers. 2. There is an enormous body of evidence wherein those observers report repetitiously the same events. 3. The observers are credible people who are devoid of psychosis. It follows that there is sufficient evidence to infer the existence of little Gray men and flying saucers. HOWEVER, inspite of the evidence we focus on the mental processes of people who are by any standard sane. As the debunker can not produce insane people, he then turns to other equally improbable AND UNPROVEABLE scenarios. The bottom line for YOU to consider. Is it conceivable your views (which if you are objective you must admit are not logical) are the product of outside influence. You seem able to construct a premise and to follow a logical train of thought. Mr. Spock would therefore infer that a person who IS capable of Logic but chooses not to apply it to a situation that can only be solved with logic - is behaving illogically. Ergo the source for the illogic need be found. In this instance, I submit that it comes from outside of you and is the product of post-abduction programming. As a crowning example to support this premise, I further submit one very obvious fact - YOU ARE HERE!. Bob Message: #241976, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jun 12, 1994 10:07:31 PM Subject: #241194-Abduction Defense From: Anthony 73064,2766 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #242026 (1 reply) >> Using your premise, it is not possible to >> establish your own existence much less anyone >> else's. I'm not trying to establish my own existence. >> I submit the following explanations for your belief >> structure. >> >> 1. You are an abductee. >> 2. All abductee's are told not to remember. >> 3. All are told that a belief in ufo's is a sign >> of mental illness. >> 4. All are told that if they talk about it - people >> will believe they are crazy. The problem is that a person with a psychoses who *imagines* that he was abducted is indistinguishable from a person who really *was* abducted, so long as everything depends on his own testimony alone. >> By way of a collorary issue, I will demonstrate >> approrpriate logic Near - Death Experiences. Except that in NDEs, people have obtained information via OOBEs that they could not otherwise have obtained during their clinical deaths, and they have also obtained other information (on the future, on the status of relatives, etc.) in the same way, and this information has been verified, which provides evidence for the metaphysical reality of NDEs *outside* of the the sole testimony of the person who has experienced them. >> It follows that there is sufficient evidence >> to infer the existence of little Gray men >> and flying saucers. I think that there is abundant evidence that UFOs exist. There is far less evidence concerning their owners. And there is virtually no evidence concerning abductions. >> HOWEVER, inspite of the evidence we focus on >> the mental processes of people who are by any >> standard sane. It is possible to suffer from a mental illness in some respects, and yet still be perfectly normal in others. This is try even for psychoses. In paranoid psychoses, the patient reasons quite adequately, the only aberration being his premise, namely, that a huge secret conspiracy is out to get him. >> Is it conceivable your views (which if you are >> objective you must admit are not logical) are the >> product of outside influence. My views are extraordinarily logical; logical thought is one of my specialties. >> You seem able to construct a premise and to follow >> a logical train of thought. I should hope so. A person claims to have been abducted. He has no physical evidence, no witnesses, no corroborative evidence, nothing except his claim. If I were to accept that, I would have to accept absolutely any claim. He could claim that I owe him a million dollars and I would have to feel obligated to pay. Nope; I always look at the accumulated evidence for and against any assertion. If an aircraft is abducted in plain sight of the control tower, and is followed on radar, and all passengers and crew tell exactly the same story upon their return, and all shows signs of odd examinations, I'll believe that they were abducted, because in that case, it is the simplest explanation. >> Mr. Spock would therefore infer that a person >> who IS capable of Logic but chooses not to apply >> it to a situation that can only be solved with >> logic - is behaving illogically. Believe it or not, a lot of people have compared me to Mr. Spock--and they don't always intend it as a compliment! I've also been compared to a robot. Unlikely comparisons for someone who behaves illogically, no? >> Ergo the source for the illogic need be found. >> In this instance, I submit that it comes from >> outside of you and is the product of post= >> abduction programming. Anything's possible. But that's reaching quite a bit just to explain why I disagree with you, isn't it? Is there any reason to believe I was abducted? How do you distinguish between someone who was not abducted, and someone who was, but had every trace of evidence and memory of the abduction erased? Were I the imaginative type, I could build a case for my own abduction, but I could explain the same accumulated facts away in any one of a hundred other ways as well (coincidence being the most obvious explanation). >> As a crowning example to support this premise, >> I further submit one very obvious fact - YOU >> ARE HERE!. I SERIOUSLY doubt that everyone in this section of New Age is an abductee! -- Anthony Message: #242026, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jun 12, 1994 11:59:11 PM Subject: #241976-Abduction Defense From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Anthony 73064,2766 Reply: #242115 (1 reply) Anthony: I'm going to give this another shot appealing to your logic. I stated that using your criteria you would not be able to establish your own existence. You cleverly replied that you weren't trying to establish your existence and completely side stepped the issue of your criteria WHICH WAS THE ISSUE. You state there is no evidence of abductions. You completely discount the testimony of thousands of sane credible people. Illogical my friend. For those of us who worship at the altar of logic we do not ignore salient facts simply because it does not fit our point of view. I find your view on mental illness interesting and particularly your example of a paranoid schizophrenic. Having lived with one (ex-wife) and paid her hospital bills for 15 years, I have a unique understanding of the subject. However, if you wish a more authoritative voice on the subject, check out John Mack's book. A Harvard psychiatrist that says these people ARE NOT mentally ill. Your theory of mental illness lacks substance and has the earmarks of a prejudicial point of view. If so, no amount of logic or proof would suffice to convince. Ergo we return to your standard of proof. The same standard that if used to your specs would not qualify proof of your existence. It follows that your premise is not founded on the information available and I further propose that your lack of objectivity on the subject has an emotional base. With regards to the reports of abductees you WOULD NOT consider psychotic, you have again ignored the common elements. Abduction, medical examinations, people waking in the mornings with marks on their bodies they did not go to bed with. Clothing missing or put on improperly and different from when they went to bed. Memories of conversations with and interactions with aliens. These instances not occuring a rare handful of times but consistantly on THOUSANDS of occasions globally. By your own admission you would accept this 'evidence' if it occured with an airliner with many passengers, but find the same 'evidence' faulty when it is done one or two people at a time. Again this contradicts your premise of what constitutes evidence and is, therefore, not logical. Thousands of people in ones and twos are psychotic where a couple of hundred people on an airplane are not. Again, inaccurate logic. My point here is not to argue beliefs. Beliefs fall in the domain of religion and are best left to priests and rabbis. Instead I propose,again, that a person employing the flawed logic of your arguments MUST be doing so solely for emotional reasons. As there is no logic in the situation there are only two alternatives emotional and irrationality. One force drives the other. The only way for you to discover if your views are the product of emotional or irrational thought is for you to turn inside and search for yourself. My personal opinion is that your views are more of a rationalization as they selectively avoid recognition of major areas of relevant data. With regards to EVERYONE IN THE NEWAGE section being an abductee, I agree. It is unlikely and a sweeping statement to that effect on my part would be inaccurate, unproveable and illogical. That, however, is not what I said. I said YOU ARE HERE specifically in the Ufo forum. I submit that you are not here to be a spoiler or the town atheist but to seek out the truth for yourself over the seemingly overwhelming fortress of your own mind. I'll give you a tip from my own personal experience you may or may not find useful. An abductee when he starts digging for the truth against his programming to the contrary, will run into a wall built of fear. The greater your anxiety - the closer you are to the truth. It is an exceptional individual who puts his head down and charges forward through the terror to the other side. I wish you luck Anthony. Bob Message: #242115, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jun 13, 1994 7:44:08 AM Subject: #242026-Abduction Defense From: Robert Thrift 75545,1710 To: westbrook 71705,262 >>I'm going to give this another shot appealing to your logic.<< I sympathize with your frustration, but you're not going to convert or enlighten any disbelievers by using logic as a tool. There are inherent weaknesses in the use of logic that will always give them a way out. Logic is much more useful as a means of explaining your viewpoint *after* you arrive at a conclusion, than it is in helping you get there. You can't actually prove anything that way, to someone who is not willing to accept your proof. There are various "levels" of proof, which in reality are merely degrees of probability. All are based on some fundamental unproveable assumptions which the participants in a discussion have to agree on, before you can have proof. For instance, the assumption that the universe is real and observable. This may seem obvious beyond all need of proving, yet some believe that the whole megillah is nothing but a thought in the mind of God. There is another unprovable assumption that effects are related to causes. These things have to be agreed on by all parties before you can go further. You have to agree to trust your own perceptions, and those of others. For instance, I *think* I'm sitting here typing on a keyboard. In actuality, I may be hiding under the bed in some insane asylum, mumbling nonsense. A fairly large number of people who have never communicated with one another believe they have had an abduction experience. Their reports, while not identical in all respects, have certain similarities which appear to be well above the level of correlation one would ascribe to chance, although there are no mathematics to cover the situation with any exactness. For some, this constitutes "proof" that the abductions are actually occurring. For others, this is not proof, but it gives a high probability that *something* interesting is going on; something that's worth investigation. Some of the abductees themselves are in this group. For still others, it proves nothing at all, and they will cite a list of conditions that would have to be met for them, personally, before they would be willing to consider that the reports have any validity whatsoever. This appears to be the case in your present discussion with Anthony. (To whom I apologize for my little joke in an earlier post; just kidding.) The bottom line is, after all the evidence is presented, people will believe what they were willing to believe in the first place, and will disbelieve what they were unwilling to believe to start with. You're wasting your time to use logic on them. They'll always like their logic better than yours. If they decide to believe you, they will supply the logic themselves to justify the belief. Cheers! --RLT Message: #242199, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jun 13, 1994 1:54:26 PM Subject: #242156-Abduction Defense From: westbrook 71705,262 To: John W. Ratcliff 70253,3237 (private) (deletable) John: Thank you for your kind comments. Bob Message: #242200, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jun 13, 1994 1:54:30 PM Subject: #242157-Abduction Defense From: westbrook 71705,262 To: John W. Ratcliff 70253,3237 (deletable) With Carl Sagan - the reply would go for EVER and for EVER and for EVER and for EVER. I think that we need to look at a point I personally accept as gospel. Our attitudes on ufos, and in particular, those of abductees have been colored, programmed, set, and/or manipulated by the abductors to keep us from searching too deeply OR to do so in such a simplistic and childlike manner as to prohibit us from ever succeeding. The only tool I can see is intellect supported by solid logic. As a private investigator I must produce workproduct that is acceptable to a court where a form of logic prevails. Were I not good at it, I would starve. You don't find too many incompetitant in my business. Those few don't last too long. Pursuing the quest of truth runs into obstacles the largest of which is fear. Again, intellect is the only force capable of penetrating the blackout imposed on us. Bob Message: #242156, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jun 13, 1994 10:38:02 AM Subject: #242026-Abduction Defense From: John W. Ratcliff 70253,3237 To: westbrook 71705,262 (private) (received) (deletable) Reply: #242199 (1 reply) Westbrook, I gave up trying to argue *logically* with Anthony a while ago. Someone who claims to be vigorously logical while at the same time using completely flawed reasoning is a hopeless case in a debate. John P.S. BTW, still a highly entertaining and logical response you gave Anthony. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. Message: #242397, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jun 13, 1994 9:08:05 PM Subject: #242200-Abduction Defense From: Anthony 73064,2766 To: westbrook 71705,262 >> I think that we need to look at a point >> I personally accept as gospel. To accept something as gospel is to accept it as axiomatic, and not subject to critical or logical analysis. -- Anthony Message: #242395, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jun 13, 1994 9:08:02 PM Subject: #242026-Abduction Defense From: Anthony 73064,2766 To: westbrook 71705,262 >> You state there is no evidence of abductions. No. I state that there is essentially no evidence of abductions beyond the testimony of alleged victims. Nothing to corroborate what they say. And when there is something, it is too ambiguous to clearly support the testimony. For example, marks on the body could be stigmata, or self-inflicted under hypnosis or in a fugue state. >> You completely discount the testimony of >> thousands of sane credible people. Illogical >> my friend. I discount the uncorroborated testimony of a single eyewitness. Eyewitness accounts are among the most unreliable forms of evidence around; they simply cannot be trusted. I consider testimony in favor of UFOs differently, because often there are many witnesses to a given even who give identical descriptions. In addition, there is often some other hard evidence: photographs, radar blips, video, film, marks on the ground, etc. But none of this is true for abductions. >> For those of us who worship at the altar >> of logic we do not ignore salient facts simply >> because it does not fit our point of view. Of course not. But I'm still waiting for the salient facts. All I have for abductions is isolated testimony from single individuals. >> If so, no amount of logic or proof would >> suffice to convince. On the contrary, there are levels of proof that would convince me entirely. A film record of an abduction would be pretty good. An apparatus beyond current technology recovered from a visit inside a UFO would be another. An analysis of an implant that would appear to indicate that it demonstrates an inexplicably-advanced technology would be still another. But I see none of this. >> The same standard that if used to your specs >> would not qualify proof of your existence. If I had proof of abductions to the same extent that many others have proof of my existence, it would be hard to deny their reality. In fact, I personally have *absolute* proof of my existence, but no such proof of abductions will ever be found. >> ... I further propose that your lack of >> objectivity on the subject has an emotional base. I disagree, especially since my lack of objectivity has only been suggested, not demonstrated. There is nothing unreasonable in hesitating to believe the very unusual stories of so-called abductees in the complete absence of multiple-person testimonies or any other form of evidence. Following your line of reasoning, I could claim that I talk to God every day, and you would be required to believe me simply because I say so, and because I have not been demonstrated to suffer from any mental illness. >> Abduction ... The only evidence of abduction is the abductees word. >> ... medical examinations ... What kind of medical examinations? If you're talking about the ones that abductees claim to have undergone, I'm not impressed. If you're talking about examinations of the abductees by third parties clearly corroborating their testimony and not more easily explainable, I'm more interested. >> ... people waking in the mornings with marks on >> their bodies they did not go to bed with. Nothing really odd about that. And again, it's only their word. >> Clothing missing or put on improperly and different >> from when they went to bed. Their word again. >> Memories of conversations with and interactions with >> aliens. Memories prove nothing. Detached and unusual memories are particularly suspect. Hihgly unusual memories recalled after "recovery" from "induced amnesia" are particularly suspect, because they are part of the clinical picture of certain psychoses. >> By your own admission you would accept this >> 'evidence' if it occured with an airliner with >> many passengers, but find the same 'evidence' >> faulty when it is done one or two people at a >> time. Yes, because coherent testimony from a number of people is much more reliable than isolated testimony from one person. >> Again this contradicts your premise of what >> constitutes evidence and is, therefore, not logical. Not at all. The number of witnesses giving identical accounts has quite a bit to do with the reliability of the accounts. >> Thousands of people in ones and twos are psychotic >> where a couple of hundred people on an airplane are >> not. Statistically, the chances of everyone on a given airplane being simultaneously psychotic are much, much lower than the chances of a single individual picked at random being so. For example, if the prevalence rate of psychosis in the general population is 950 in 100,000 (a pessimistic estimate, by the way), the chances of a single person being psychotic are 1 in 105. The chances of everyone on a plane with just 20 passengers and crew being psychotic are about 1 in 277,895,098,176,600,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000; with 280 passengers and crew, this figure contains 775 digits. So the testimony of an entire planeful of passengers is much more reliable than the testimony of one person (excepting optical illusions and mass hysteria). >> Again, inaccurate logic. You may quite a few references to logic, given the fact that I have only mentioned logic once in this thread, and only with respect to a point concerning proof of my own existence. Here's an example of Real Logic: Three railway employees named Smith, Robinson, and Jones, are brakeman, fireman, and engineer, but not respectively, living in the State of New York. Three businessmen, similiarly named, also live in the state. The businessman Robinson and the brakeman live in Albany, the businessman Jones and the fireman live in Rochester, while the businessman Smith and the engineer live halfway between these two cities. The brakeman's namesake earns $35,000 a year; the engineer earns one-third as much as the businessman living nearest him. The railway man Smith beats the fireman at billiards. What is the engineer's name? >> Instead I propose, again, that a person >> employing the flawed logic of your arguments >> MUST be doing so solely for emotional reasons. I suppose it would be bad form to allude to the psychological phenomenon of projection here? I have already explained that I have somewhat of a reputation for a lack of emotion. In fact, I usually simulate emotion in order to gain credibility, since many people incorrectly assume that nobody who fails to state his opinions in a highly emotional way could possibly hold those opinions for real. In any case, I have no emotional reasons to employ any kind of flawed logic in the current context. >> As there is no logic in the situation ... That remains to be demonstrated. >> My personal opinion is that your views are >> more of a rationalization as they selectively >> avoid recognition of major areas of relevant data. What relevant data are you talking about? >> I submit that you are not here to be a spoiler >> or the town atheist but to seek out the truth >> for yourself over the seemingly overwhelming >> fortress of your own mind. I am somewhat of a Devil's Advocate, challenging others to explain the rational basis for their opinions and beliefs. It is surprising how many people are incapable of doing so when pressed. >> An abductee when he starts digging for the truth >> against his programming to the contrary, will run >> into a wall built of fear. Then I must not be an abductee, since I see nothing frightening about this forum or this thread. >> The greater your anxiety - the closer you are to >> the truth. That is only the case if you find the truth unpleasant. -- Anthony Message: #242412, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jun 13, 1994 9:37:00 PM Subject: #242395-Abduction Defense From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Anthony 73064,2766 Anthony: What is the difference between 'there is no evidence of abductions' and 'there is essential no evidence'. Word games. Aside of the semantical sportsmanship here, it is a TREMENDOUS misstatement of fact. Ergo.......... I give up. I wish you well sir. Bob Message: #242587, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jun 14, 1994 6:02:17 AM Subject: #240656-Gray Defense From: Guy Hagan 100024,161 To: westbrook 71705,262 Reply: #242636 (1 reply) Hi Westbrook, I'm quite new to this section of the New Age forum, but I've always been passively interested in UFO's and especially the concept of life elsewhere in the universe. That is an interesting transcript you have there. I'm curious to know(if you don't mind telling me) why Greys are such a threat, and what they're after since you obviously seem to have had a lot of involvement with them. I remember someone else asked you the same question a while ago, and Alain Beaulieu told them that there were files in the libary that are written about them. In the "Alien Types" file, the Greys are described as being the "servants" of reptillian-life forms. So where do the Nordics you describe fit into all of this? Also, whilst there are many reports of creatures that resemble Greys I can hardly remember any reports in which "lizard-men" are sighted. They mostly seem to be Greys, humans, and of course the odd-ball aliens. BTW, I'm very interested to know how you managed to keep a computer conference going whilst having your house invaded by aliens! Guy Message: #242728, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jun 14, 1994 3:41:16 PM Subject: #242412-Abduction Defense From: Anthony 73064,2766 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) >> What is the difference between 'there is no >> evidence of abductions' and 'there is essen- >> tial no evidence'. Word games. The first means that there is no supporting evidence at all, and the second means that there is no evidence that is best explained by an abduction hypothesis. At least that's how I use these expressions here in context. -- Anthony Message: #242696, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jun 14, 1994 2:08:09 PM Subject: #242587-Gray Defense From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Guy Hagan 100024,161 Guy: Re: Answers 1. I don't know anything about reptiles. Grays are not reptiles. There are reports of such creatures but as far as my personal exper- inence - I have zip to say on the subject. 2. Grays are artificially created lifeforms. Created by Nordics to serve Nordics. The are created from genetic material stolen from us. 3. Nordics value Nordic life - they do not care a great deal about Grays - even though Grays do possess a survival instinct. 4. Grays are sent in to do the dangerous work. As the Nordics can grow more of them at will, they are considered expendable. 5. Grays are the tool that actually performs the abduction and a great deal of the work under Nordic supervision. 6. Rape of a person's body is injurious. In my case they screwed up and I lost a testicle because of it in 1963. I consider that injurious. Not to mention lasting psychological influences resulting from their manipulations. 7. I kill Grays. I've gotten 'loose' (their term). By some means I don't understand, I've managed to switch control of volutary functions to my sub-conscious. This neutralizes the 'sedatative' the apply to keep you docile during the abduction. Ie: I bide my time, wait until I'm on the ship, and then go ballistic on their scrawny carcasses. They don't bother me any more. They do, however, surveil me regularly. 8. Re: the transcript Angel and I were online at the time. They weren't after me. They WERE after her. Even if they were after me they wouldn't have gotten me. She on the other hand was not defended. I went voice with her because I needed to communicate faster than the keyboard would allow. We were connected between 9 PM and 4:30AM PST. Grays are not terribly bright - Nordics run iq's in the area of 190. Therefore, a Gray can't outthink me. A Nordic is a worthy opponent. 9. Any race or individual that is dependent upon technology also accepts the limitations of those tools. The ufos are totally dependent upon their tech toys and without them, they are as vulnerable as we are. 10. If you think that transcript is hot, what happened after the transcript is even hotter. I've been asked me to sit on it for the moment. I hope this answers your questions. Message: #242867, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jun 14, 1994 8:14:12 PM Subject: #242696-Gray Defense From: PJ 73363,1075 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Bob since you sound like you have all this worked out, I have a few questions about stuff I've always kind of wondered... 1. If the greys only work for the Nordics, what interest do the Nordics have in us, why the abductions? And if they're so smart and have the greys to help them, and have been around so long, why does it seem like they're still learning? 2. If the greys' only goal (ref'ing an earlier conv b/t us) is to Steal Female Eggs, what do they need men for? Still biological? 3. If this is all a secret, why on earth would they continue to have anything to do with you? (b) Why don't the Nordics just off you? 4. Are there any you would consider "good" guys? 5. You refer to wanting a picture of the person you're working with to "prevent abduction" (not to mention the other various cosmic knowledges inferred - nothing personal, but there *are* quite a few things you say you know more about than most people do) -- where exactly did you develop these tremendous abilities? Natural talent? Invoked by the experiences? 6. Just out of curiosity, do you think its possible that a person could be yanked from one place and sort of "wake up" driving down the road, like between work and home, but with no memory of leaving work? Regularly? Wouldn't that be difficult for them? And if it is possible, why would they do such a thing? 7. Still waiting on your disk. PJ Message: #242930, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jun 14, 1994 10:08:05 PM Subject: #242867-Gray Defense From: westbrook 71705,262 To: PJ 73363,1075 PJ 1. There is no relationship between abductions and Nordic's learning. Abductions are performed for the sole purpose of collecting a commodity from us. 2. Re: Female eggs. Grays take genetic material from BOTH sexes. 3. Re: Secrets. As we are talking about it - it doesn't seem to be much of a secret does it? As for killing me or us - it isn't allowed. there is a governing force that sets rules and enforces them. While occasional accidents have happened resulting in human death, it is the exception rather than the rule. 4. Re: Good Guys. Yes there is evidence of a 'good guy'. His (their) presence is very subtle and must be deduced. I'm not holding my breath that they will be of much help to us. 5. Re: Wanting a picture of the person to prevent abduction. I've never said any such thing. The only time I would ask for a photo of someone is if I am going to be 'personally' involved with them. R U looking for a date? Also, your thinly veiled sarcasim suggests that you are not after answers but have some emotional agenda to promote or to inflict. Lucky me, I seem to be the target. "You seem to know more than most people do..." While I do not suffer from delusions of grandeur, I'm good at what I do AND I know it. I'm sorry that bothers you. As to how I come to know what I know, my answer is. a. Personal Experience. b. Relevant Research. c. Logical Deduction If you have a mind and are inclined to using it objectively, what seems like a tremendous ability is little more than a common place ability. It only seems uncommon when viewed by the common. 6. I have met at least one person who saw lights in the sky. Pulled over to look, left the car with her two friends. The next conscious memory they had was driving the car down the road afterwards and all of them were sitting in different places than originally. It is unlikely, and probably impossible to take someone from a moving vehicle. There fore, they would have to be induced to stop and leave the car. To answer your question - no - this isn't difficult to do. A part of all abductions is the blitzing of short term memory from the conscious mind. The info is still available in the subconscious but much harder to get at. To answer your question on memory, no that isn't unusual - it is typical. 7. The disk was mailed several days ago. Now, I have a question. What is it that specifically aggravates you about my presentation on this subject? Bob Message: #243559, S/2 Community Square Date: Thu, Jun 16, 1994 6:45:14 AM Subject: Northern Exposure From: Starflower 73664,2411 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob; Do you find all the supplies you need at Ruth Ann's store? She does not seem to have much inventory to me. Star Message: #243548, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jun 16, 1994 5:35:26 AM Subject: abduction question From: Ron Holtz 71035,3440 To: westbrook 71705,262 >> Abductees are not chosen at random. The minimum criteria is an IQ of 125 or better. << How do they know a person's IQ without abducting them first to test their IQ? Message: #243620, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jun 16, 1994 10:35:18 AM Subject: #242696-Gray Defense From: Guy Hagan 100024,161 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #243669 (1 reply) Hi Westbrook, Gee, thanks for being so honest(in relation to the bodged experiment by the Greys)! I remember we had a phone-in on this side of the pond about people with UFO experiences, and a lot of Grey-related experiences were reported. Whilst most were pretty innocent(examinations,encounters, etc) some women rang in to report that their unborn babies had been removed, and one poor woman rang in reporting the loss of an ovary! Say, I'm sorry to ask more questions but since you've had so much experience with the Greys, etc, I find that asking you is much better than looking up the possible theories in a UFO textbook! I hope you don't mind. If the Nordics seem more or less human(judging by their name), why are they bothering with our genetic stock if they're human as well? It would seem a lot simipler to use their genetic stock. I'm sure with their high technology it wouldn't be a problem. Any ideas? Maybe it's just to do with moralsl; we experiment on animal foetuses but not human ones. BTW, do you have any idea where their home planet is? I've read in the library that it is Bernard's Star, which with being so close(6 light-years) seems a good choice unless they've got some kind of instantaneous "wormhole" travel, etc. Their planet sounds a bit like ours could have been if Nazi Germany won WWII, with all this talk of Nordics, races of servants and unethical medical and genetic manipulation of life-forms. I remember reading the autopsy report on two alien bodies recovered in a crash(again in the New Age forum libraries). I'd also read a similiar report in an old book on UFOs. It claimed that the first body resembled, and was probably a human foetus that was aborted early from the womb and surgically brought up to life status. Evidence for this was the very similiar anatomical similarities to a foetus(vertical undeveloped heart, many undeveloped other organs etc). However, the other body was much more "alien"(it also matched the description of a Grey). It had three fingers coming from its wrist, and a complete body. The blood was supposed to be partly chlorophyll-based, giving it a slightly green colour. Have you any thoughts on why there should be a foetus thrown in with the other alien? Do you reckon the Nordics just take what they can from us humans(if they find an unborn baby, they take it)? Sorry about all the questions! Guy Message: #243669, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jun 16, 1994 1:07:23 PM Subject: #243620-Gray Defense From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Guy Hagan 100024,161 (received) Guy : Re: Nordics as breeding stock. We are dealing with a group of people who are pointedly logical. The evidence of co-breeding with us goes back as far as pre-Biblical times. In comparision, we are homosapiens the Nordics are homosuperior. However, they have some very serious drawbacks. 1. Their society is one where you are born into your caste. The caste is determined by intelligence. 2. They are (by our standards) sociopathic. 3. They have no free will and demonstrate abject obedience to their master. 4. They consider us 'tainted' as we have free will. Here we have a race of people who obey no matter what. Let's face it, this kind of abject obedience is not one of mankind's traits. To get that trait, the Nordics were genetically altered, a long time, ago. That alteration invalidated them as potential contributers. To put it simply - they have no soul. We have very unique and special traits - foremost of these is the human spirit. Re: Experimentation on animals. The Nordics consider us cattle. Re: Their Home Planet No, I don't know where they come from AND it doesn't matter. What is relevant is they are HERE and we are war with them. Re: Nazi's It's an interesting aside that people who see Nordics frequently describe them as Germans. Ie: The Perfect Aryan. The Nordics make them seem like choirboys in comparison. Re: Ufo books I can't speak to the book you read. I avoid reading ufo books. I prefer to learn and figure these things out from sources other than those in the ufo loop. That aside. There are six artificial races create from our dna. Each one of these was grown deliberately sterile to guarantee their obedience to their masters. If they wish to perpetuate their species (and they do) they must pay in obedience to he who controls access to the genetic supermarket. You don't need to apologize for asking intelligent questions. Bob Message: #243668, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jun 16, 1994 1:07:15 PM Subject: #243548-abduction question From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Ron Holtz 71035,3440 (received) Ron: We are dealing with a people who are a minimum of 6000 years and possibly as much as 10,000 years ahead of us in technology. However, there is collorary evidence supporting the idea they can 'scan out' biological criteria. Example: Hagar - concubine to Abraham is running away from home when she is intercepted by an 'angel' who tells her to go home. They angel tells her she has a 'son' and does so without laying a finger on her. In the plagues of Eqypt, the first born of not only humans but cattle as well are killed selectively. How did they know how to tell the difference without abducting them. I don't know. I do know that they can do it. Further in the plagues they show a unique understanding of insect biology in as much as they deliver up a plague of locusts. This was a neat trick as the locust swarms about once every seven years. In the download section is a portion of my book, A Survivor's Guide To Armageddon - it covers a lot of this material using the Bible as the focal point of logic. Bob Message: #244068, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jun 17, 1994 8:38:28 AM Subject: #243669-Gray Defense From: Guy Hagan 100024,161 To: westbrook 71705,262 Hi Westbrook, Thanks again for the reply.The Nordics do sound an interesting race, albeit terrible that one so well, unhuman, could exist. I wouldn't call them choirboys in comparison to the Nazis though - their policy of not killing us is a fortunate one. You mentioned that we are at war with them - I can understand that their abductions are frowned upon and best resisted, but I feel that I would not like to be at war with them due to their superior technology and mechanical, logical minds. Do you know if they are going to treat us as nothing more than just "cattle", creatures from antoher planet from which gametes, genetic material, etc, can be obtained from, or that they have some plans for Earth in the future, e.g. colonisation or enslavement? There is a lot of talk of a hybrid race being created combining the best of both worlds - any ideas? Whilst I find UFO books quite useful, there is a lot of material that has to be sorted out on personal opinion. It is obvious that some cases in books have to be treated with a pinch of salt, whilst others are baffling. BTW, I guess that you have communicated with some Greys or Nordics to obtain the information about their social structure, etc, or have you come to these conclusions from your considerable experience on the subject? I suppose if it did come down to a showdown between us and the Nordics in the near future, we could use our own cloning techniques to clone Greys, etc, as to stop their obedience to their Nordic masters who will perpetuate their species only upon their obedience. Guy Message: #244118, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jun 17, 1994 12:37:03 PM Subject: #244068-Gray Defense From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Guy Hagan 100024,161 Guy: The Nordic policy of not killing us IS NOT their policy but is a rule imposed and enforced by someone else. Don't be too greatful. If you ever have the misfortune to meet one of these people you'll find them emotional 'empty shells'. The have treated as cattle for over 6000 years that I can identify and possibly even longer. I so no reason they will change the game in the future. I wouldn't be so in 'awe' of their technology. When one uses a tool, he has to accept the limitations imposed by that tool. Further they screw up frequently. They are far from ominpotent and without the tech toys they are as vulnerable as we are. Don't hand out too much respect. Re: Hybrids. There are six species of hybrids that have already been created from our genetic goodies. Re: Slavery We have been genetically restructed to prohibit us direct use of 90% of our brains. The purpose is to keep us trapped here so we can serve as cattle on their commodity market. That fact would qualify as slavery in a passive sense. In an active mode, they have grabbed people in the past to perform functions for them and will presumably continue to do so in the future. Involuntary servitude, in any form, is slavery. Re: Colonization They've been living here with us - side by side - since the beginning. They have no need to colonize this planet. They already own as much of it as they want. Further, they have access to many other worlds. The 'Invasion From Mars' scenario is juvenile. Further there is logic to propose the idea that the actual number of Nordics is relatively small. I'll explain. Nordics have created Grays, Browns and Reds from our DNA. These critters serve the function of worker bees. The creation of an artificial species implies a NEED. Nordics are very logical and methodical in the way they do things (ad naseum). You do not create tools that serve no function. In any society, you will need more Indians than chiefs. One would infer they actual number of Nordics is either small or has a topside limitation. Re: Ufo Books I don't read them. The extent of what I know comes from other historical sources, logic, inference, and personal contact viz a viz abductions. Our cloning techniques are not developed to the level we can create complex organisms. Therefore, you can forget subverting Grays. Further, they are loathsome bastardizations of life and, in my book, have no right to exist. However, you are on the right track as far as inlisting allies, with the Hybrids. There are recent reports from abductees indicating a group of Hybrids have split from the hive and are actively killing Grays. Essentially a revolution. Unfortunately, at this moment in time, they use the same technology and the same abduction techniques as their Nordic masters. I feel, however, there will come a moment in time when they will approach us for an alliance. Bob Message: #247982, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Jun 25, 1994 6:59:01 PM Subject: #246378-abduction question From: BRIAN M. MARTINEZ 73124,723 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #247993 (1 reply) You know what the problem is with all of this: (1) Sociocentric to the US. Who cares about Slick Willy? He will be over come by technical events! (2) Ethnocentric to Judeo-Christianity. If there are any extra-terrestrial types who care about our little world, does the Armegeddon Myth mean anything? Not! (3) Ethnocentric to White Europeans. Wargammers where are you, trouble with the blacks in S. Africa....Pyrric Africanner victory. Reason for governmental change........economic power shifts my friend (i.e., the walls fell down and you can't stop information). Get a clue Brian Martinez Flight Test Engineer Message: #247993, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Jun 25, 1994 7:20:11 PM Subject: #247982-abduction question From: westbrook 71705,262 To: BRIAN M. MARTINEZ 73124,723 Mr. Martinez: Who cares about Slick Willy? Time is made up of a series of moments that result in points we call 'history'. 2000 years ago our progenators recorded the occurance of the Nordic Harvest thru a man named John who wrote it down for us and saved it. When the most important man on this planet, The President of The United States fails - a series of other events culminating in global repercussions will occur. So - I CARE - about slick Willy. Whether the Armageddon myth means anything or not is a matter of opinion. I support mine opinions with a factual platform. I submit sir, it is you who needs to look for the clues - I already have and you have yet to. "Why would ET's be interested in our little world?" The logic of the question demands a definition of what is the little world. I suspect it is limited to the scope of your individual visions and perspective. Therefore, YOUR little world would be of negligble interest. However, for those of us with different vantage points, I would say that one must have an appreciation for how rare life truely is to understand why we would be of interest. If you are interested in vision that does not agree with your view of the universe, you're welcome to download the portion of my book in the library. Scan on Armageddon. Finally, with regards to my prediction of strife and death in South Africa. What do you use for a heart that you can so flippantly dismiss the suffering all the individuals involved will undergo? The Nordics are going to have a lot of fun with you and fortunately, I suspect we won't be living on the same planet for many more years. I find sharing this one with you - objectionable. Bob Message: #248279, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jun 26, 1994 12:35:16 PM Subject: #247993-abduction question From: BRIAN M. MARTINEZ 73124,723 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Sir: You have a big ego and the burden of proof. Brian Martinez Flight Test Engineer Message: #248956, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jun 27, 1994 3:14:03 PM Subject: #247335-Gray Defense From: Nicholas Zaglanikis 71623,163 To: westbrook 71705,262 Being new here I have a question. What exactly is/are the Nordic thing I read about? Can anyone help? Thanks in advance Nick "the Greek" McLand El Cid Zaglanikis Message: #248955, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jun 27, 1994 3:14:05 PM Subject: #247993-abduction question From: Nicholas Zaglanikis 71623,163 To: westbrook 71705,262 >> When the most important man on this planet, The President of The United States fails - a series of other events culminating in global repercussions will occur. So - I CARE - about slick Willy.<< Where exactly do you base that the president of the United States is the most important man on this planet? Just wondering Yours Nick "the Greek" McLand El Cid Zaglanikis Message: #248999, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jun 27, 1994 5:47:02 PM Subject: #248956-Gray Defense From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Nicholas Zaglanikis 71623,163 Nick: Why is it that every Greek named Nick is 'Nick the Greek'? Nordics are the alien bad guys who perform abductions of humans, steal genetic material from their gonads and create artificial life forms with them. They're sociopathic, sometimes mistake for angels or messengers from God and generally are not very nice people (emphasis added). The are blonde - human in appearance - very good looking. Although very bright (IQ - 190) they are emotionally deficient and view us as little more than insects. They have plagued this planet for AT LEAST the last 6,000 years and probably longer. As to can you help. Indeed you can. Under the heading of Gray Defense, I left instructions on how to build a shield that if placed around your bed will prevent abductions. It has been tested in battle AND it works! The more sophisticated a technology gets, the easier it is to monkey wrench it. I and another user here, both abductees, noted that the Nordics never use their dimensional door on sections of wall wherein there is electrical wiring. It was unknown at that moment whether or not the magnetic field of the electricity disrupted the field or it was the wire itself. To be safe, I purchased 200 feet of electrical cable, 4 ceiling hooks and a fan and constructed five sides of a cube around my bed. Each size has an X in the middle. My abduction problems immediately ceased. I later learned in a real time abduction that the following sequence of events and limitations occur. 1. They WILL NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES enter the house while anyone is awake. 2. They hit the house with an energy beam that will cause fans to turn even though they are off at the time. 3. This beam will sedate you and put you into a comatose sleep. 4. It will do so with your animals as well. 5. Once these conditions are met, they will use dimensional shifting to either send Grays thru the walls to haul you out or to open the dimensional door and use a white tractor beam to levitate you out of the bed and thru the door - into their ship. 6. The dimensional door is typcially used on interior walls in crowded urban areas. In sparcely populated areas they will use it on an exterior wall. In a bedroom, the wall of choice must be in line of sight with the bed. If there is no wall in allowing this facility, then they send in a team of Grays. They typically use closets. The 'cage' or 'shield' works when the energy from their beam moves across the wire. the movement creates a small electric charge that is grounded out. Essentially, you are intercepting and grounding enough of the energy directed at you and grounding it. Thus making their effort ineffectual. What can u do to help yourself? 1. Protect yourself. 2. Protect your loved ones. 3. Educate others. IF they want you bad enough, they will have to physcially materialize and put their slimy hands on you AND you will not have been sedated. This is pretty risky when confronted with someone like me who kills Grays (and I'd love to get my hands on the Nordic sob that sent them in too). For more info - download the bit of my book in the library. Scan on Armageddon. Bob Message: #248998, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jun 27, 1994 5:46:17 PM Subject: #248955-abduction question From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Nicholas Zaglanikis 71623,163 Nick: Why is the President of the United States the most important man in the world? To give just one example. Economics. There is a saying in European financial market. When the U.S. catches cold - Europe gets pneumonia. The U.S. sits at the hub of world economic stability. We are the greatest single marketplace in the world and the most stabile producer. Our fingers are in every major economic pie on this planet. Taken to an extreme, if you US were to cease to exist tomorrow, the vacuum would collapse the global economy. You might argue that Japan is the most stabile market on the Earth. No so, the raw materials used to make over 90% of Japans exports are imported as they have no natural resources. Their economy exists only as long as other nation's are willing to sell to them. Not so with the U.S. So much of the world economic condition is based upon psychology and the appearance of stability. The Dow Jones Average, for instance, is meaningless except to the extent it shows the psychology of the marketplace at that moment in time. So it is with the President. If the world views him as a person with no integrity, no morals, and untrustworthy, it undermines all the things which he affects. Factor in some major blunder - let's say, War with China, and what started out as just a poor perception turns in calamity touching the entire planet's economic systems - which in turn affect food supplies and other commodities and so on. It's a chain reaction that, if permitted to go wild, destroys. Bob Message: #249072, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jun 27, 1994 8:08:16 PM Subject: #248998-abduction question From: BRIAN M. MARTINEZ 73124,723 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Westbrook: That is indeed possible......the butterfly effect as described in Gleick's Chaos. But, as in the butterfly effect, there may be other "affectors". The problem is much like building a computer algorithm which tries to predict the weather. The potential of minor individuals to influence change is just too much an uncertainty. Most of all, whether you received your messages from on high or from Zen dreams of your subconscious, true Prophets are very seldom believed and less seldom found. It is a dangerous business to be in. Brian Martinez FTE Message: #249158, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jun 27, 1994 10:45:07 PM Subject: #249072-abduction question From: westbrook 71705,262 To: BRIAN M. MARTINEZ 73124,723 Brian: Fortunately, I am neither in the religion or prophecy business. I am, however, in the credibility business. As a private investigator with over 400 hours in court rooms, expert witness testimony, appearances before two legislatures and service with one - most consider me a credible kind of guy. If, before proffering your opinion, you'd have read the bit of my book in the library, you would have found an evidencery trail going back 6000 years. From this foundation, I built a logic trail that was enhanced by my own personal experience. However, if you strip that experience away - you will still be left with the same material that will lead to the same conclusions - assuming one uses logic as the tool of discovery. As far as being an unbelieved Cassandra. I am not one to cast pearls before swine. I throw it out there - if it takes root, fine - if not, I've lost nothing. Bob Message: #249237, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jun 28, 1994 1:17:00 AM Subject: #248998-abduction question From: Nicholas Zaglanikis 71623,163 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #249266 (1 reply) Indeed I am Greek and temporarily I am considered a... permanent resident here in the U.S. By no means I mean to offend you guys, don't get me wrong, but... when I was roaming around in this forum and the Encounters forum I saw messages of people who seem to believe that the President of this country does not seem to know --everything-- that he needs to know. {eg about the UFOs}. I do not disagree that yes, the United States is the most powerfull country right now and it will still be for a looooooong time for the reasons that Bob explained, but still I have doubts if Mr. Clinton or any other President of this country is the most important person on this planet. I say this because how about the ones that influence the President? Or how about the ones that hide information from the President? A single action by someone can change the course of history, right? If this is so then I don't think that we can say that a SINGLE person is the most important person on this world. Of great importance maybe but I am not sure if he/she is of the greatest. Yours Nick "the Greek" McLand El Cid Zaglanikis Message: #249266, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jun 28, 1994 3:26:24 AM Subject: #249237-abduction question From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Nicholas Zaglanikis 71623,163 Nick: There is nothing 'Great' about Clinton. He is a liar and a person without any ethical or moral fiber. Even so, he sits holding the lynch pin of world stability. A study of history will show that most major events nearly always come down to the decisions and actions of one man. Bob Message: #249524, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jun 28, 1994 7:36:12 PM Subject: #249158-abduction question From: BRIAN M. MARTINEZ 73124,723 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob: I will download when I have a spare moment. Appreciate the reply. Just hope you are not talking about me being the swine. I've experienced the normal racist curses due to my skin pigment, and a lot of unmentionable titles at the Service Academy, but swine would be new. Anyway, thanks for the information. Brian Martinez FTE Message: #249527, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jun 28, 1994 7:48:26 PM Subject: #249158-abduction question From: BRIAN M. MARTINEZ 73124,723 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob: Another question if I may. How many people out there routinely come to you with alien abduction problems and has this been steady or has there been any oscillation? Brian Martinez FTE Message: #249690, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Jun 29, 1994 1:08:02 AM Subject: #248999-Gray Defense From: Dean Miller 75110,3417 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #249756 (1 reply) Hi Bob, >> The 'cage' or 'shield' works when the energy from their beam moves >> across the wire. the movement creates a small electric charge that >> is grounded out. Essentially, you are intercepting and grounding >> enough of the energy directed at you and grounding it. Thus making >> their effort ineffectual. What would happen if, after the greys came through, the power to your electric cage were turned on? Would that trap the greys? Dean Message: #249756, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Jun 29, 1994 4:01:23 AM Subject: #249690-Gray Defense From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Dean Miller 75110,3417 Dean: What if they cut the power to the cage. That exact thing did occur. When I initially noted that the bad guys never come thru the wall where there's wiring, I speculated that it was the magnetic field from the juice in the wire that was disruptive. However, in a real time encounter here thru CIS, wherein Angelfish was the objective of the abduction attempt, I had her grab any electical cord she had available and to wrap it around her. During the encounter, her ceiling fan - while turned off was spinning. This indicated the presence of moving energy that was being coverted into electricity by the coil in the motor - thus causing the fan to rotate. She also, developed a hot spot on one of her legs. The wire was not grounded so it was grounding thru her leg. During that portion of the event - she was not snatched. However, after things settled down, she took the cabling off. When she did, the power to her entire house went out. The phone went dead and try as she might to stay awake she couldn't. She awoke the next morning the painful bruises and sore ribs - indicating she put up a fight. The transcript of the beginning of the event was posted here on the forum. The bottom line is - it is the WIRE itself and not any current that disables their beam. It is noteworthy that there was another quirk of the evening. When she received her power bill - it was much higher than the ability of all her appliances to consume energy. The power company agreed and is going to give her credit on the bill. The Nordics are dependent upon their technology and they are not inclined to taking risks. If, in the presense of the shield, they wish to perform an abduction - they will have to drop all em camoflauge and physcially put their hands on you the same as anyone else would have to do AND they aren't willing to do this. For those of you with a mathematical bent, you might be able to make a reasonable guesstimate of the amount of energy going thru Angel's place. The fan is a standard ceiling model and I figured it was doing something like 35 to 50 rpm's. She reported it took 30 minutes for her to 'fall asleep'. With regards to her electrical consumption - assuming the electric meter did not do a flat spin and go haywire on it's own, and allowing that it is clearly impossible for the appliances in the house to consume energy beyond their engineering - I have an interesting speculation - Time. We know that there are difference in time when identical time pieces are held in the area of a landing zone and outside the area. This would be consistent with a power supply that utilized dimensional physics to function. If relative time was accelerated within the beam shot into Angel's house, then not only the machines in the house would move in an accelerated fashion - but so would her biomechanics. In speeding her up, it's possible her natural sleep periods were quickened for a sleep period faster than she would have had if she'd stayed in normal time. Due to the relativity factor - not of the devices nor her body would exceed design limitations. I consider it no small coincidence that the Nordics and Gray jumpsuits have several useful purposes. They are reported to have a wire mesh woven into the material making the suits not only bullet proof, but immune to sound or light weaponry. IE: the beam would not work on them as the energy would be converted to simple electricity and grounded out. The cage uses the same principle but is admittedly cruder. The ideal human wear would be a poncho with a grounded wire built in somewhere. Bob Message: #249558, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jun 28, 1994 10:05:16 PM Subject: #249524-abduction question From: westbrook 71705,262 To: BRIAN M. MARTINEZ 73124,723 Brian: The reference 'casting pearls before swine' refers to putting things of value in front of people who do not have the wherewithall to appreciate it, much less, understand it. One of the things about modem land is that you can't see skin pigmentation. Even if I could, I wouldn't care if you were green with purple polka dots. Bob Message: #249559, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jun 28, 1994 10:05:21 PM Subject: #249527-abduction question From: westbrook 71705,262 To: BRIAN M. MARTINEZ 73124,723 Brian: I am not in the ufo business. Do not hold myself out to people to be anything more than a source of info on what I've learned as a result of being an abductee and a professional investigator. During my own 'PERSONAL' quest - I've come up with answers that are relevant to others. My purpose for coming to the ufo forum has nearly complete. It's my hope that my book will be of some assistance to those who see it. As for meeting with other abductees, the limit of my experience on the subject was an hour with 8 abductees in Houston and those whom I've met here. As the Nordics perform their tasks with repetitive (ad naseum) methodology, the commonality of experience between all abductees makes for a substantial database. I do not consider myself all that uncommon in this area. Bob Message: #250010, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Jun 29, 1994 6:30:16 PM Subject: #249756-Gray Defense From: Andrew R Sutcliffe 100317,2245 To: westbrook 71705,262 Westbroke (is that your first or last name?) >>During the encounter, her ceiling fan - while turned off was spinning.<< WE know that electrical & magnetic energy are related. Why didn't this wipe out her hard drive info? All floppies? Cassette tapes? Credit card swipe strips? Why does she have such a daft name? If she's reporting reality why not say so (would you believe a source of the next major international scandal if the only evidence was from two 'nameless' individuals (one of whom had recently written a book ! )...... >>This indicated the presence of moving energy that was being coverted into electricity by the coil in the motor - thus causing the fan to rotate.>> See above. >>The bottom line is - it is the WIRE itself and not any current that disables their beam.<< So a few little strand's of little 'ol copper is all that it takes? Why not put wire mesh under (or over if you prefer) the wall paper? No current needed! No ground needed! (What does a ground = earth; mean to an Alien being anyway?) >>The power company agreed and is going to give her credit on the bill.<< So ? Are the power co going to explain _why_ her bill was so out? How did she know this ? Are we going to see proof of this (i.e. a photocopy of her bill & related letters uploaded as a series of Gif files, or similar?) >>something like 35 to 50 rpm's.<< So you were there & SAW the fan then? >>We know that there are difference in time when identical time pieces are held in the area of a landing zone and outside the area. << We do?? I haven't heard of it (X-files excluded). What is the explaination of that? Is this a proven fact or UFO mythology? >>This would be consistent with a power supply that utilized dimensional physics to function.<< Um....Er.....Please explain more please. Sounds like you might knnow something that could get you a nobel prize here! >>I consider it no small coincidence that the Nordics and Gray jumpsuits have several useful purposes. They are reported to have a wire mesh woven into the material making the suits not only bullet proof, but immune to sound or light weaponry. IE: the beam would not work on them as the energy would be converted to simple electricity and grounded out.<< It is sad that _sound_ weapons won't work ! They were the only chance against brittle, hollow bones. But then a wire suit will not ground out without a ground strap connected to EARTH. (EARTH = GROUND - or a least it does in a lot of electrical situations) Is a wire mesh bullet proof to ALL bullets & projectiles? No _simple_ conversion to electricity would happen without a path & a means to absorb the energy. >>Bob<< Ok now I know that at least! Andrew. Message: #250012, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Jun 29, 1994 6:37:15 PM Subject: #249756-Gray Defense From: Dean Miller 75110,3417 To: westbrook 71705,262 Hi Bob, >> The transcript of the beginning of the event was posted here on the >> forum. Yes, I read it. >> The bottom line is - it is the WIRE itself and not any >> current that disables their beam. Aha. Good investigating. How about a wire mesh net that could drop down (somehow) at the moment the attempted abduction takes place? Could Angelfish make a copy of her power bill or in some way get something to document the excess power usage? It's evidence, even though circumstantial. Dean Message: #250056, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Jun 29, 1994 8:19:11 PM Subject: #249558-abduction question From: BRIAN M. MARTINEZ 73124,723 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob: Thanks. I understand that there are no cameras attached to the rig yet. Just checking your meanings. I've run into a lot of folks who will take advantage of the literary to throw an insult. Glad you are not one of them. I'm still trying to unzip some messages here, so I not up to speed in your library yet; interesting subject matter though. Brian Martinez Message: #250059, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Jun 29, 1994 8:21:29 PM Subject: #249559-abduction question From: BRIAN M. MARTINEZ 73124,723 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob: Appreciate your reply and perspective. Brian Martinez Message: #250120, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Jun 29, 1994 9:41:13 PM Subject: #249756-Gray Defense From: Alain Beaulieu/ASYSOP 70403,3645 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) >> it is the WIRE itself and not any current that disables their beam. How much wire is required? Like if you were wearing a metallic necklace, would it be sufficient if grounded? >> her power bill - it was much higher than the ability of all her >> appliances to consume energy. How can that be? They would have been sucking the energy so quick to abduct her? But I don't think that just a time lapse would do it. Alain Message: #250190, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jun 30, 1994 12:43:31 AM Subject: #250010-Gray Defense From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Andrew R Sutcliffe 100317,2245 (received) Andrew: 1. Angelfish is the person's handle here on the ufo forum. If you don't like her choice, I'm sure she's going to lose a lot of sleep over it. 2. As to why the emf's didn't wipe out her hard drive. Does your radio kill your computer system? Or do transmissions from ANY radio source? When you turn on a fan - does the magnetic field generated by it or any other appliance kill your computer? There's an old saying here that applies. "Put your brain in gear before you put your mouth in motion" 3. As to your undisguised use of sarcasim as a means of hiding your own ignorance and ill preparedness to have this discussion I say. a. I am not inclined to teach you the theories on dimensional physics - go to a library and enrich yourself. b. wire works - mesh is better - grounding practical. Prove otherwise. c. The transcript of the beginning of the abduction attempt is posted here. If you choose the believe the lady is a real time liar - knock yourself out. I'm not in the belief business. d. Re: Time differentials. You criticisms based on data you admit you don't possess are illogical and founded in nothing more than a need to display petty emotions. If you wish serious answers to the questions - take your head out of your backside. Contrary to what you believe - the view isn't that grand. Don't waste my time. What you believe is up to you and I don't care one way or another. If you want information you don't possess, you may consider them or not as you will. However, do not make the mistake of playing games with me kid. I'm much better at it than you are. Bob Westbrook Message: #250192, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jun 30, 1994 12:43:04 AM Subject: #250012-Gray Defense From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Dean Miller 75110,3417 Dean: 1. I've asked Angel to provide a copy of the bill. She will be back on line here soon. 2. Wire Mesh is better than cabling. However, as I was born with ten thumbs, I tend to do things the easiest way possible. 3. As for making the trap you visualize. I have not conceived of a switch that will work. I did come up with a compass and magnet gig that did successfully alert me to the opening of the dimensional door. However, as soon as they saw the rig, they stopped using it and instead send one Gray in to do surveillance. The Gray's gear is not sufficient to trip the compass needle. So - if you can come up with a switch - you'll be able to bag some Grays. Bob Message: #250191, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jun 30, 1994 12:43:00 AM Subject: #250056-abduction question From: westbrook 71705,262 To: BRIAN M. MARTINEZ 73124,723 Thank you Brian. Bob Message: #250665, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jun 30, 1994 9:35:23 PM Subject: #250190-Gray Defense From: Alain Beaulieu/ASYSOP 70403,3645 To: westbrook 71705,262 >> "Put your brain in gear before you put your mouth in motion" 3. As to your undisguised use of sarcasim as a means of hiding your ... Please, let's All remain calm! Alain Message: #251544, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Jul 2, 1994 10:52:05 AM Subject: #249756-Gray Defense From: PJ 73363,1075 To: westbrook 71705,262 < (pun intended!) Andrew. Message: #252942, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 4, 1994 9:13:07 PM Subject: #252528-Gray Defense From: Shannon + Sara Smith 73521,3045 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #253060 (1 reply) >>you will experience an 'awakening'. This is not a religious or spiritual affair. It is a clarity of vision like you've never had before.<< It sure sounds like a spiritual affair to me. Sara :-) Message: #253060, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jul 5, 1994 2:05:06 AM Subject: #252942-Gray Defense From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Shannon + Sara Smith 73521,3045 Shannon & Sara: Expanded mental facilties open the door to many things that are commonly mistaken for spiritual affairs. What if higher intellect and the soul are actually the same thing? One being the object and the other being the emotion associated with the object? It would seem reasonable then that contact with our higher mental abilities would produce an emotional response that would seem spiritual only because we aren't accustomed to using them. Bob Message: #252908, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 4, 1994 8:26:10 PM Subject: #252527-Gray Defense From: Alain Beaulieu/ASYSOP 70403,3645 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #252938 (1 reply) >> I have no patience with would be debunkers who haven't even bothered >> to do their homework on the subject they wish to debunk. Yes. But you will also find a lot of support by just boring the debunkers out! >> I am also fond of Jehovah's Witnesses who wish to bend my ear by >> misquoting the Bible. ROFL! Yes. That too! A lot of that going around in born again people. Alain Message: #252938, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 4, 1994 9:03:25 PM Subject: #252908-Gray Defense From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Alain Beaulieu/ASYSOP 70403,3645 (received) Reply: #253015 (1 reply) Alain: I'm sorry - boring the debunker out just isn't going to work in my case. I've been called many names in my lifetime but dull, hum-drum and BORING have never been applied. I'm sorry buddy, I just don't have it in me. Bob Message: #253015, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 4, 1994 11:46:05 PM Subject: #252938-Gray Defense From: Alain Beaulieu/ASYSOP 70403,3645 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #253043 (1 reply) >> I've been called many names in my lifetime but dull, hum-drum and >> BORING have never been applied. I'm sorry buddy, I just don't have it >> in me. I think you misinterpreted what I said to you. Those debunkers are looking for a fight. By refusing to escalate, you will bore them out and they will leave you alone. (I have done that sucessfully before as section leader when 2 hard line skeptics landed here at the same time). You will then be able to keep talking productively. Alain Message: #253043, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jul 5, 1994 12:44:10 AM Subject: #253015-Gray Defense From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Alain Beaulieu/ASYSOP 70403,3645 No Alain: I didn't misinterpret, you didn't get my humor. I have a standard method of dealing with those that would bait me. Later Message: #252933, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 4, 1994 8:54:30 PM Subject: #252710-Gray Defense From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Andrew R Sutcliffe 100317,2245 (received) Andrew: I will answer the questions you posed to Robert Thrift and answer your question as to how you get a 'good' post. You get 'good' responses by asking intelligent and relevant questions. Baiting does not get you a good post - least of all from me. There are two principle methods used in performing an abduction. 1. Dimensional doorway through a wall with an accompanying 'tractor' beam that levitates you out of the bed and thru the wall. 2. Using similar gear in their jumpsuits, they walk thru the wall, pick u up and carry you out. Re: 1 In reverse engineering the logic of the event, we noticed that they always chose walls, or sections of walls, that did not have wiring in it. I speculated that the cause was the magnetic field of the wiring. I've since discovered this speculation is wrong. It is the wire itself. Any RF energy moving across a conductive wire will create a small electric charge - thus diminishing the amount of energy reaching its intended target. Also, I have speculated that as we shoot a light beam to project an image on a 2 dimensional surface - it is reasonable they can shoot a beam on a 3 dimensional surface providing a dimensional door. In doing so, they must rotate reality 90 degrees. Any other item capable of interfering with the balance required by that doorway, would destabilize the beam. Judging from cause and effect, they have stopped using this method on me from the minute I put up the cage. This because the tractor can not function through the wiring now surrounding my bed. I would add that I devised a simple test to ascertain the existence of the 4D door. I took a compass and placed a small magnet at a right angle to the needle. This establishes a precarious relationship between the magnet and the needle. The induction of any magnetic energy into the room causes the needle to spin furiously. It developes such high rpms that it generates its own magnetic field and literally KICKS the magnet about 2 inches away from the compass. On the two occasions this happened, I awoke with nicks and scratches I did not have when I went to bed - further my finger nails had grown noticably. Re 2. The second rendition is simply a slight variation of number one. Instead, they send a team of Grays thru your wall, pick u up and haul you outside where they use the beam on you. It is not their method of choice however. They will not enter the house until EVERY living thing in it has been sedated. This is achieved by an energy beam. This beam also will cause fans to turn by themselves. How it puts us to sleep is a matter for speculation as the technology is beyond ours. It suffices that it does. The cage prevents the sedation to occur. Ie: they will not enter the house. Without their technology - they are quite vulnerable. Re: Window. For all I know, they may be able to use windows. In my case, they have always used walls or closets and seem to prefer walls. Re: Power Company You ascribe great investigative abilties to the power company that exceeds their purpose in life. The individual in question did not inform them of the event with the ufo. Common sense. The only relevant question is whether or not the user actually consumed the amount of electricity indicated by the meter. To be sure, the first thing they would check is the meter - as it is the measuring device. Side Note: Andrew, you would find it useful to use more logic in forumlating your queries and speculations. You will not be able to deal with this subject matter if you don't. I recommend a trip to the library to learn the principles. Your statement that we use observational data for forumulate an hypothesis is incorrect. Naturalistic observation is the first step of the scientific method. It is IN AND OF ITSELVE also capable of providing proofs and answers - not just the questions. Therefore, the premise of your statement is illogical and you can not receive a rational reply to an irrational question. Your subsequent statement that the 'abduction question' falls into the arena of unproveable is as incorrect as the premise that it is built upon. You use one irrational statement to build the illogical conclusion that abductions have not been proven. Your arguement fails on all points. FYI - The observations of hundreds of thousands of abductees constitutes proof by the terms of the scientific method. So it has been with the case of near death experiences. However, there are those who wish to enforce a different standard with the subject of ufos. The scientific method is what it is regardless of the politics or emotions of the moment. If there are those who choose to disgard this cornerstone of logic because it does not meet their need of the moment, then no logical arguement or fact short of the Seconding Coming of Christ will convince them. It is illogical to argue with minds that are unable or incapable of rational thought. Ergo, one does not cast pearls before swine. Does a mesh provide magnetic shielding? Mesh will intercept a moving wave of any frequency and will convert it into simple electricity that can be grounding out. It reduces the amount of energy reaching the target. Based on my experience, it does so well. Increasing the amount of energy into the shielded area will only increase the amount of electricity generated. This means, for a Gray or Nordic to perform an abduction, he must enter the room, drop his shielding and physically lay his hand on you. He must also do this knowing that you are not comatose and are capable of rising and kicking his can. This is not a risk they are willing to take. Now, after taking the time to write this out for you, I have a question. What is your interest. Are you an abductee or simply a voyeur? Bob Message: #252910, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 4, 1994 8:26:14 PM Subject: #252531-The Awakening From: Alain Beaulieu/ASYSOP 70403,3645 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #252939 (1 reply) >> Take it for what it's worth. Thank you very much for your message. We allways thought that the Rapture meant removal of people. Yest you say that they will strafe city streets in daylight. That does not sound compatible. Could you clarify this? What would they do with the people that they do remove? Alain Message: #252939, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 4, 1994 9:04:02 PM Subject: #252910-The Awakening From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Alain Beaulieu/ASYSOP 70403,3645 (received) Reply: #253016 (1 reply) Alain: I'm sorry - but you didn't get it. There are three players in this game, us - them and them. The Nordics are coming to harvest the herd. Towards the END of Armageddon, they will be so bold as to drop the screen of secrecy and openly strafe the streets. PRIOR TO the mass destruction of Armageddon, the Noshaimus will remove one billion people off the planet - effectively saving them from the Nordics. The Noshaimus will be inviting those who meet the criteria for living as an adjunct to their society. They must be able to control their own fear. You don't have to be Mother Theresa, you don't have to put money in the plate every Sunday. You just have to be able to control the animal instincts you were born with. Incidentally, how do you get the doscim to extract the lines you quote for inclusion into the reply? Bob Message: #253016, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 4, 1994 11:46:07 PM Subject: #252939-The Awakening From: Alain Beaulieu/ASYSOP 70403,3645 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #253047 (1 reply) >> Incidentally, how do you get the doscim to extract the lines you quote >> for inclusion into the reply? I use OZCIS myself. What you do is you go to the message that you are replying to, select the text to copy by dragging your mouse from one corner to the next, then in the Edit Menu, use Copy. Then you go to the reply screen, place the cursor where you want the copied text to appear. You may type a >> before then you select the Edit menu, then Paste. Then add a << at the end. Then enter two carriage returns before to start the reply paragraph. Alain Message: #253047, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jul 5, 1994 12:52:11 AM Subject: #253016-The Awakening From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Alain Beaulieu/ASYSOP 70403,3645 >> I use OZCIS myself. What you do is you go to the message that you are replying to, select the text to copy by dragging your mouse from one corner to the next, then in the Edit Menu, use Copy. Then you go to the reply screen, place the cursor where you want the copied text to >> Thanks Alain - I got it. Bob Message: #253134, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jul 5, 1994 9:33:20 AM Subject: #252531-The Awakening From: James Sellman 71520,3434 To: westbrook 71705,262 G'day Bob... What was the title of your book? "The Awakening"? I totally understand what you're saying, except this part.... >> It has only been since I have constructed my own cage and passed the hurdles of fear<< 1. What was the 'cage' made of, size, construction technique and for what purpose? 2. What specifically were the hurdles of fear that you were tested on? 3. In your experience did the 'Nordics' come in one size, colour, type etc. 4. 2.1 years from which date? Thanks for the original post....feel free to express more...many ears listen and heads nod in agreement. Regards, James Message: #253206, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jul 5, 1994 12:26:01 PM Subject: #252939-The Awakening From: Bob P./UFOLOGY 75310,3312 To: westbrook 71705,262 >>Incidentally, how do you get the doscim to extract the lines you quote for inclusion into the reply?<< Mark the lines with either your mouse or with > until they are highlighted. Then choose "Copy' from the 'Edit' menu. In your reply, place the cursor where you wish it and choose "Paste" from the 'Edit' menu. Message: #253291, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jul 5, 1994 4:21:10 PM Subject: #253043-Gray Defense From: Alain Beaulieu/ASYSOP 70403,3645 To: westbrook 71705,262 >> I didn't misinterpret, you didn't get my humor. Oh! OK then! I was not sure whether you were joking or not! Alain Message: #253256, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jul 5, 1994 3:02:02 PM Subject: #253134-The Awakening From: westbrook 71705,262 To: James Sellman 71520,3434 > 1. What was the 'cage' made of, size, construction technique and for what purpose?< You'll find the instructions for constructing the cage under the heading of Gray Defense. The purpose is to prevent abductions. 2. What specifically were the hurdles of fear that you were tested on? I didn't say I was 'tested'. To break free of the abduction syndrome you must overcome the programming that was stuffed between your ears when you were abducted. For example, if you begin thinking your were abducted your first barrier is the "Gee, I must be nuts" wall. Once you accept that you were, in fact, abducted you run into fear. You've been told not to look and any act to the contrary produces unexplained fear. The more you look - the worse it gets. Constructing the cage requires you get past these items BECAUSE you must admit that you have the problem, decide you're not crazy and say 'screw it' with the fear. In the end the fears will have been unjustified. 3. In your experience did the 'Nordics' come in one size, colour, type etc. Principally, the Nordics I've seen are perfectly blonde. Men about 6 foot and the women a little shorter. All are exceptionally beautiful. I have, however, seen Brown haired Nordics on one occasion. 4. 2.1 years from which date? From the date of my post. Message: #253419, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jul 5, 1994 9:30:19 PM Subject: #253204-Angels in California? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Bob P./UFOLOGY 75310,3312 Bob P. As the keeper of the prognostications - which ones are coming true and which ones aren't? Bob Message: #253317, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jul 5, 1994 5:44:08 PM Subject: The Shield From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Westbrook 71705,262 (received) I have uploaded a file that explains the construction of the anti-abduction sheild together with the logic and train of thought that inspired it. Scan on the words Abduction Prevention Bob Message: #253502, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Jul 6, 1994 12:57:11 AM Subject: #253060-Gray Defense From: Dean Miller 75110,3417 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Hi Bob, >> What if higher intellect and the soul are actually the same thing? >> One being the object and the other being the emotion associated >> with the object? You're making more and more sense to me as time goes on. I don't know if I should be scared or not. Dean Message: #253420, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jul 5, 1994 9:33:02 PM Subject: #253134-The Awakening From: westbrook 71705,262 To: James Sellman 71520,3434 (received) James The name of the book is a Survivor's Guide To Armageddon. Message: #253645, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Jul 6, 1994 8:43:15 AM Subject: #252531-The Awakening From: Jack Boyle 70322,2171 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #253754 (1 reply) Bob, I have read your book (the downloadable portion, anyway) and have been lurking around here for several weeks with great interest. I do not (yet) consider myself well-read enough to either accept or reject many of the ideas in these fora. I do not believe we are alone in the universe. I try to keep an open mind, and I hope you can clarify something for me. >> However, they WILL save those who meet one (and only one) criteria. They will take all those who have learned to control their fears. This implies a certain degree of intellect because it is only with intellect that the baser passions can be controlled. << I agree about the intellect part, but you also say that one has to 'learn' to control ones fears. Does this imply a certain level of life experience? I guess my real question is, where do children fit into this plan? Bottom line, if I were selected to be saved, and I couldn't bring my family with me, I'd rather stay here. Thanks, Jack Message: #253754, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Jul 6, 1994 1:48:23 PM Subject: #253645-The Awakening From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Jack Boyle 70322,2171 Jack: I don't think that fear is an item that is necessarily controlled by life experience. One could argue that the longer one lives, and the more terrible things we see and hear about, it would increase fear. Fear is very personal, and I suspect it is different for each person. I can only speak of my own instance intelligently. For me it was coming to grips with the abduction scenario. It is not one that I am willing to accept or to live with. I choose what is done with my body - no one else! Once I became aware of the situation, I ran into increasingly violent walls of fear. This is contra my nature as I conquered these dragons a long time ago. I realized what I was feeling was irrational. I concluded that as this was not something natural to me, it was something that had been done TO me. Then, I created the shield. I can not be grabbed while I'm in it. I have a son, 10, whom I love greatly. I've had the same thoughts you have. Children reflect their parents. I've taught my son (re: fear) to use his head to control his life and even if he is afraid, not to show it to an enemy. Eventually, this lead me to conquering the beast. It will do so for him too. The children of the world are, I think, special and innocent. Fear is an instinct supplied with our biology. All animals have it and NEED it. The question is degree. In the next two years, you can teach your kids to use fear productively and to control it. I suspect that interpersonal relationships are going to start changing. I feel that people will start pairing up the way they should have in the beginning. Ie: they will find their soul mates (so to speak). I too, would not leave my son behind in the post Armageddon world although I wouldn't miss his mother at all Bob Message: #253437, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jul 5, 1994 10:05:31 PM Subject: #252944-Falling Out of Bed From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Shannon + Sara Smith 73521,3045 (received) Sara: I find your idea that the positive or negative aspects of the abduction experience is a matter of perception. Those believing it to be a postive experience don't call the victim an abductee but merely a contactee, like these highly advanced people couldn't make a phone call if they wanted to. Indulge me while I supply you with some real 'dark alley' perceptions. You are stolen out of your bed. You are put on a metal operating table. Your clothes are stripped from you and you lay their butt naked being observed by Gray bug eyed aliens who neglected to ask for your consent. Your legs are spread as wide as they'll go and you are restrained, unable to move or even scream. They put their hands up inside of you and remove an egg from your ovary or worse they impregnate you with a child they will return later to take from you. If I were to do this to you, it would be called rape or worse. Yet, those who wish to see something nice associated with this tend to ignore the very standards you live your daily life by. You are not an intelligent creature whom they can respect. If you were they'd ask your permission and cooperation. No, you're a lab rat, a species whom can be used and disgarded at will. There aren't contactees, only victims. Consider that your beliefs may have been programmed into you. Certainly, and at the very least, it is illogical to apply different standards of behavior for aliens and humans. On a personal note, I'm nursing one very sore and swollen testicle at the moment. They bagged me out of the 5th floor of the Vegas Hilton on 6/30. I'm working up a portable shield for when I travel and will have it completed before I take another trip. They wanted info, I told them to kiss my @ss thus precipitating the rough treatment. Further, you are also not aware that while Nordics don't usually kill us, they have been known to engage in that age old goodie called torture. Hon - there is nothing good about what these people do to us. Bob Message: #254187, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jul 7, 1994 7:22:14 AM Subject: #253419-Angels in California? From: Bob P./UFOLOGY 75310,3312 To: westbrook 71705,262 >>As the keeper of the prognostications - which ones are coming true and which ones aren't?<< I really am not keeper of such. Any of the numerous predictions that have gone on 'record' over the past have all been for naught. Although it's would be a long explanation, let me just say that my beliefs in the nature of reality(ies) is such that I pay little attention to long term predictions because I believe the future to be 'plastic'. Maybe someone else is keeping track. But as PJ mentioned, so far as PJ was concerned, the accuracy rate thus far is dismal. Message: #254248, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jul 7, 1994 9:36:11 AM Subject: #253754-The Awakening From: Jack Boyle 70322,2171 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob, >> I don't think that fear is an item that is necessarily controlled by life experience. One could argue that the longer one lives, and the more terrible things we see and hear about, it would increase fear. Fear is very personal, and I suspect it is different for each person. << I guess my feeling is that in order to learn how to control fear, one must at least know what fear is, and perhaps even experience it. I believe fear IS very personal and different for each of us; the things my son fears would seem silly to us grown-ups. In 2.1 years, he will be 3.6 years old. Right now, he appears only to fear lima beans. I hope this won't be held against him. >> The children of the world are, I think, special and innocent. << Do you think there will be different rules (regarding fear) applied to children at the time of Rapture? Or perhaps, if they are a reflection of their parents, that their fates will be identical? Maybe the children will be the ONLY ones saved! >> In the next two years, you can teach your kids to use fear productively and to control it. << In the next two years, I'll be lucky to teach my son to use his bladder and control it! :-) Jack Message: #254345, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jul 7, 1994 1:35:12 PM Subject: #254187-Angels in California? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Bob P./UFOLOGY 75310,3312 >>Maybe someone else is keeping track. But as PJ mentioned, so far as PJ was concerned, the accuracy rate thus far is dismal. << Well, we shouldn't forget one little earthquake prediction made three hours before the event on 4/12/94 - by yours truly. Bob Message: #254346, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jul 7, 1994 1:35:15 PM Subject: #254248-The Awakening From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Jack Boyle 70322,2171 Jack: Re: Lima beans. You obviously haven't introduced the kid to the wonders of liver yet. At this moment in time, nearly all the souls that have ever lived are now alive, here, at the same time. When that number hits 100% the Rapture will occur. Man has been on this planet a very long time and the soul inside of that little body is as old and experienced as your own. I suspect that the vast majority of kids alive at that moment in time will be those automatically exempt, in particular the real little guys. I wouldn't worry about it. Bob Message: #254494, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jul 7, 1994 7:53:23 PM Subject: #253060-Gray Defense From: Shannon + Sara Smith 73521,3045 To: westbrook 71705,262 Re: your addressing the post to both of us- Excuse me Bob, but I signed my post Sara. Shannon would not have posted speculation about spirituality. He only had a passing intrest in UFOs when he met me. Actually, I'm mainly pointing this out because there is so much confusion about which gender Shannon is. His mother might as well have named him Sue. >>Expanded mental facilties open the door to many things that are commonly mistaken for spiritual affairs. What if higher intellect and the soul are actually the same thing?<< Indeed. Higher intellect, higher self, fundamental nature are all valid descriptions of soul. >>contact with our higher mental abilities would produce an emotional response that would seem spiritual only because we aren't accustomed to using them.<< This seems like an emotional response to me. You sound unwilling to face the fact that you are a spiritual being living in a physical body. Contact with our higher mental abilities would produce a response that would seem spiritual because it is. Sara Message: #255312, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Jul 9, 1994 11:38:14 AM Subject: #252933-Gray Defense From: Andrew R Sutcliffe 100317,2245 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob! Same appologies for late reply as went to Robert & Alain - It's been a busy week! Thankyou for your reply. It has answered some of my questions & promoted a few more. So here we go... >>You get 'good' responses by asking intelligent and relevant questions. Baiting does not get you a good post - least of all from me.<< I thought your last post _was_ good. Intelligence is relevant however. >>1. Dimensional doorway through a wall with an accompanying 'tractor' beam that levitates you out of the bed and thru the wall. 2. Using similar gear in their jumpsuits, they walk thru the wall, pick u up and carry you out.<< These are the things that I find really fascinating about the whole abduction phenomena, the means by which the end is achieved. See my reply to RLT for more on this if you wish. >> In reverse engineering the logic of the event, we noticed that they always chose walls, or sections of walls, that did not have wiring in it.<< Do they ever come via the floor? (again this is relevant to my comms with RLT.) >>Any RF energy moving across a conductive wire will create a small electric charge - thus diminishing the amount of energy reaching its intended target.<< So you are saying that they use Radio waves (RF energy) to counter gravity _&_ transport a human being through a solid (to us) object. >> Also, I have speculated that as we shoot a light beam to project an image on a 2 dimensional surface - it is reasonable they can shoot a beam on a 3 dimensional surface providing a dimensional door. In doing so, they must rotate reality 90 degrees. Any other item capable of interfering with the balance required by that doorway, would destabilize the beam.<< I note that this is just speculation but would RF energy resuult in reality being rotated through 90 degs? Is there a book with more on this in that I might find in the library? >> This because the tractor can not function through the wiring now surrounding my bed.<< What is the size of the largest/smallest opening in your shield? >> The induction of any magnetic energy into the room causes the needle to spin furiously.<< Only if it is an oscillating magnetic field. A static magnetic field would only have a momentary effect whilst the needle re-aligned itself in it's 'new' composite field. I have tried a slightly different approach to this. Place an infra red emitter above the needle such that the needle _completely_ blocks the light. Place an IR detector (or photo-transistor) underneath the needle, directly under the emitter. Thus even a slight movement of the needle will allow the IR through & this can be detected & used to sound a warning, start a video camera or whatever. >> The second rendition is simply a slight variation of number one. Instead, they send a team of Grays thru your wall, pick u up and haul you outside where they use the beam on you.<< How do they get the greys through the wall? Wouldn't the mesh suits they wear stop the tractor beam energy working on them? What is there to stop the greys sneaking in when you are asleep & reaching through the shield to knock you out & then taking down the shield? >>How it puts us to sleep is a matter for speculation as the technology is beyond ours.<< Beyond ours & yet so simple to defeat. Maybe their physics is not that far beyond ours but merely a little more accurate? Newtonian physics once reigned supreme - Now look what happened after Einstein. >>You ascribe great investigative abilties to the power company that exceeds their purpose in life. The individual in question did not inform them of the event with the ufo. Common sense.<< Common sense? How so ? >> The only relevant question is whether or not the user actually consumed the amount of electricity indicated by the meter. To be sure, the first thing they would check is the meter - as it is the measuring device. << Maybe. But this _could_ be a great source of info. She could have made enquiries like Does this sort of thing happen often? Did anyone else around here have the same problem? Do you find that this sort of thing happens in waves (periodically)? See where I'm going? >>Andrew, you would find it useful to use more logic in forumlating your queries and speculations. You will not be able to deal with this subject matter if you don't.<< Remember Star Trek ?? Whan faced with something that did not fit the current mould, Mr. Spock, with his logical mind would answer "That is illogical, Captain". It was the human _feeling_ (or intuition) by Kirk, McCoy, Scotty etc that often gave us the answers. Maybe it is my wording that confuses. >>Your subsequent statement that the 'abduction question' falls into the arena of unproveable is as incorrect as the premise that it is built upon. You use one irrational statement to build the illogical conclusion that abductions have not been proven. Your arguement fails on all points.<< Have they been proven _beyond ALL reasonable doubt_ ? I think not. I have asked a number of people that if they were in court & someone accused of murder gave in thier defence that they were with aliens (interplanetary or interdimensional) at the time of the event - Would this be accepted by them? How many out of 20 asked would accept that without question as a factual aliby (sp?)? >>The observations of hundreds of thousands of abductees constitutes proof by the terms of the scientific method.<< So it has been with Elvis sightings. >>It is illogical to argue with minds that are unable or incapable of rational thought. Ergo, one does not cast pearls before swine.<< Quite! >>Mesh will intercept a moving wave of any frequency and will convert it into simple electricity that can be grounding out.<< RUBBISH! (and you accused me of talking illogically & without due reference material!) It will ONLY affect a RF wave of certain frequency according to the size of the appature in the 'wiring'. It will not effect magnetic waves. Nor gravitational waves (if you choose to believe that gravity is a wave). It won't effect waves of charged particals _on it's own_. For electricity to be 'grounded' it needs a path to ground. otherwise only energy conversion takes place (conservation of energy). This means heat, in the case of the mesh. >>Are you an abductee or simply a voyeur?<< That is something that I prefer to leave to another time. Suffice to say that I have seen UFO's on more than one occasion, have nightmares about them (always based around my parents house, funnily enough) have precognotive (SP?) dreams & what some _may_ describe as screen memories (especially from the age of twelve). I do not ever recall meeting aliens. Nor being abducted. Andrew. Message: #254764, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jul 8, 1994 9:53:02 AM Subject: #253256-The Awakening From: Wayne Walusiak/IL 72366,421 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) re: Nordics <> Perhaps this would explain the almsot obsession many people have with blond, blue-eyed women or men ! They have had us over a barrel for millions of years ! Perhaps we're too attracted to them to resist ! WW Message: #254762, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jul 8, 1994 9:53:22 AM Subject: The Awakening From: Wayne Walusiak/IL 72366,421 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #254897 (1 reply) re: Awakening Hey Bob ! Excellent information and post ! You went to Colorado and discovered (rediscovered ?) the site ! You certainly are gutsy after having had those experiences you told us about. You got me interested in just what is IN your book. Does that offer via sending you a disk still hold ? Does the 'Cosmic Conspiracy' or ' Vindicator Scrolls' evidence anything you've told us ? (if you've read those books they parallel a number of things you've spoken about, esp the 'free will ' aspect !). re: Armageddon 2.1 years Hmm, interesting. It predates some predictions and postdates others. So you're saying we should look for the actual Rapture to happen in August of 1996 ? What if enough people pray to have this averted ? You say the Noshaimus rspect free will. If we ask them to stop this, protect us, etc would they not do so ? re: all higher emotions eminate from the soul. Hmm, is it any wonder that so many 'alternative' religions predicate themselves on love - spiritual love - as being what will make a difference ? Hmmm.... You kinda left out particulars on how one 'accepts' help - mind elaborating ? Thanks ! WW Message: #254897, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jul 8, 1994 3:40:05 PM Subject: #254762-The Awakening From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Wayne Walusiak/IL 72366,421 (received) Wayne: Yes on the disk. No, I don't read many books. Armageddon is happening now. Rapture in 2.1 years. No the Noshaimus will not stop Armageddon and for a variety of good reasons. We have been cut off from the source for the last 200,000 years. This was not because of anything we as a species did but as a result of the Lucifer rebellion. Had this event not occurred, mankind would have evolved substanially differently than we have. They withheld judgement on Lucifer's and Satan's crime for this period of time. Judgement will be rendered in 1999. At that time, actions will be taken to rectify the damage done. Re: Free will. The choice to do good or bad is always within the realm of an individual's free will. No one can force their choices upon you. Those who continually do ill as a persistent choice become so damaged as to be unsalvagable. Armaggedon is the sorting out of those who are able to advance, those who might be salvagable in time, and those who are beyond hope. Prayer will achieve nothing. These are not dieties and they do not demand your subservience. However, by expanding your mental functions you can communicate with them AND they you. Had it not been for the rebellion, we would have had a physical, observable, angelic presence here all the time, and belief would never have been an issue. However, as Satan and Lucifer both are still at large, it was deemed necessary to limit the area of damage by disconnecting the communication capabilities. Since then, everything has been handled in an indirect manner by personal emissary thus avoiding use of the com devices. These people never want to establish religion and went to great lengths to convince those they came in contact with that they were not God. Only Satan, used that device and that lie. It is true that those who know love will avoid hate and those who do good will avoid evil. Perhaps the greatest error of all was the premise upon which we are founded. Democracy does not work in the long run. Obedience to the universe would have provided stability, the opportunity for growth and advancement. In contrast the deification of the individual produced endless wars over resources, conflicts over property and ideologigies and corruption at every level of every government with each individual yelling ME! ME! ME!. The philosophy of ME allows no prospect for an awareness of anything greater or better than the individual. Such was the cause and impetus of the Lucifer Rebellion and you are the victim of that arrogant endeavor based upon Lucifer's demand that HIS individuals rights were greater than the trust to nurture his worlds. We are the living proof of that error. Bob Message: #255337, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Jul 9, 1994 1:07:25 PM Subject: #253437-Falling Out of Bed From: Shannon + Sara Smith 73521,3045 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob, People often assume that because I have a benevolent view of aliens that I havn't been 'mistreated'. I have a typical scoop mark on my leg and I had a pregnency disappear. I don't hold the lack of compassion against the aliens who did these things. You said>>it is illogical to apply different standards of behavior for aliens and humans.<< You also campared the way they treat us (different species) to the way we treat lab rats (different species). Sounds to me like they are using the same standard of behavior as we are. Maybe our behavior twords other animanls is precisely why we get treated the way we do. Sara Message: #255595, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 10, 1994 12:16:30 AM Subject: The Awakening From: Steve Quinn 70252,3563 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob, Where does this old warrior have to report? Where in Colorado? What kind of rations should I bring (how long a wait?) & where do I get my ticket to ride & a chance to exercise my free will? Been waiting a long time for the event....looking for a chance to do some good. I'm an odd combination...warrior and healier. Spirit is willing, but the reflexes are slower than they used to be. I'm better now than I was when I was faster though. Scar tissue can make you smarter, if you are willing to learn. I passed thru fear a while back, and am ready to enlist. Steve Message: #255794, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 10, 1994 12:18:18 PM Subject: #254897-The Awakening From: Wayne Walusiak/IL 72366,421 To: westbrook 71705,262 re: disk Address again, please ! re: Armageddon now It sure seems like the changes are taking place ! Those announcing 'earth changes' are in the allpark but seem to be 'off taret' a bit. Perhaps that goes with having to remember things are 'backwards' from the psychic side when bringing through predictions. re: Noshaimus not stopping Armageddon This _really_ sounds VERY similar to the book 'Cosmic Conspiracy' by Deyo. This scenario mirrors much of what he wrote down - not that I'm saying you are paraphrasing him - but it is interesting the truth is starting to come out more... re: Free Will I guess that goes along with responsibility. If you make responsible choices you are not 'part of the problem'. Wonder if the Noshaimus will be able to fill the boats with all those on the planet... Wonder if there will be enough room ? re: expansion of mental functions Wonderd why there has been such an exponential surge in that lately... re: democracy doesn't work What would you call a society of intelligent beings who were responsible for themselves and there actions ? Those who act for their own and the remainder of society's good ? Hopefully those who are responsibly acting individuals are not 'proof of the error' ? Are we those or are we actually part of the 'problem' ? If so then I don't think we will be allowed to be part of the solution... WW Message: #256031, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 10, 1994 8:42:27 PM Subject: #255312-Gray Defense From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Andrew R Sutcliffe 100317,2245 Re: Intelligence. Mine is not relative. Your's has yet to be determined. Re: Coming thru the floor. No, they do not. Re: RF energy. A bad choice of terms. ANY magetic energy crossing a wire will produce a small electrical charge. I did not mean to imply Radio Frequency as they address only a very small portion of the frequency band available. However, as we lack a better term, it'll have to do. Therefore, dimensional interaction is achieved by manipulating energy (magnetic). Re: Rotating Reality 90 degrees. 1. Yes there are books on the subject. 2. We know thru theoretical mathematics that rotating magnetic reality 90 degrees would open a doorway to the next dimension. Re: Opening in the shield. I have the openings in the shield, down on the surface of the mattress confined to 3 foot by 2 foot. It does not provide an opening sufficent to move my 3 D carcass thru the wires without hitting a wire. As this appears to be a destabilizing factor, they don't do it. Re: Oscillating field. I have no information on the subject. It suffices that my experiement achieved results. The logic of 'how' it happened remains mildly speculative. It is enough that the conclusions drawn have had the desired results. I am not being abducted. Re: Adaptive alarm switch. I too have played with this idea. I noted that after my gizmo tripped two times, they quit using the wall beam. I assume they saw the device and figured it's purpose. From this point on, I received personal visits by Grays. I am uncertain that there is enough energy in the room to trip a switch. The only reasonable trap that could be laid would be to put the detecting equipment under the run and around the entire flooring. As they never entrance through the floor, it might be feasible. Re: Grays, sheild and walls. You misunderstand. The purpose of the tractor beam is to preclude sending Grays in. Therefore, Grays do not enter in conjuction with the beam but INSTEAD OF the beam. Re: What's to keep them from knocking me out? 1. They have dimensional shifting equipment built into their portable gear. 2. While you can observe the effects of their presence and even smell them, you can't see them. 3. As they are dimensionally shifted, they would have to drop their sheilding to get through the wires on the shield. Ie: they'd have to go 3D. Doing so makes them visible and handleable. They do not, will not, assume this risk. In cases where they do go in and get you, they do knock you out, pick u up and haul you off BUT they are 4D while they do it. Re: Common Sense If you can't understand why someone would be disinclined to yell UFO! at the power company - there's nothing I can say that will help you. Re: Does it happen often? I don't know. I am not a ufo researcher and don't collect that data. Re: Logic Your examples of emotional readings by Kirk or McCoy does not justify an irrational approach to ufos. I will repeat myself. This is not a subject you can address by any other means than logic and rational thinking. If you can not or will not avail yourself of these tools, you are performing mental masturbation. You think something is happening but all you end up with is a mess. Re: Proven to the degree a court would accept? You blew it on this one buddy. You're talking to a man with over 400 hours in court rooms, much of it as an expert witness. What you THINK on the subject is irrelevant and immaterial as you have no evidence to support your thoughts. I will tell you this, I COULD MAKE A CASE for the existence of ufos by the standards of logic required by a court. These standards would hold for either civil or criminal. Again, you use irrational logic to support irrational opinions - none of which have any foundation in fact. I will agree that NO ONE WILL EVER CONVINCE a closed mind of anything. Such a mind refuses to accept logic as a tool of anything but might even refer to emotional examples like Kirk and McCoy to support arguements why emotions are a better analytical tool than logic. As far as your speculations on who would accept an alibi (misspelled), I submit you don't have the knowledge or experience to even know what constitutes a legal alibi. Re: Elvis sightings. Your flippant comment indicates an immature mind who does not care to deal with the subject seriously. Therefore, this will be my last post to you. Your statement that mesh will intercept a RF wave but not a magnetic wave and further pontification that the subject as RUBBISH. I'd point out to you that an RF wave IS A MAGNETIC WAVE. Your science is unsound, without foundation, and inaccurate. Have you seen Elvis lately? The End Message: #256029, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 10, 1994 8:42:06 PM Subject: #255794-The Awakening From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Wayne Walusiak/IL 72366,421 Reply: #256117 (1 reply) Wayne: I pointed out in my book that there can only be one truth on a given subject. It follows that the seekers of that truth will cross paths in the effort. Re: Filling the boats. No problem. Re: Expanded mental functions. As A-Day approaches, the collective subconscious of man (recognizing the danger) will kick into overdrive. We are all connected and are all in the same boat together. Re: Democracy Democracy as it exists in the United States is a function controlled principally by liberals. Liberalism produces a uniform standard of mediocrity in the name of equality. It penalizes those who produce in favor of those who don't. It is morally degrading and based on the concept that those who breed the most get all the power even if they are not best suited to have it. The United States was not originally founded on the principal of one man - one vote. But rather, upon the idea that some people were and others weren't. When the state of the nation is determined solely by the breeding habits of individuals, one must note (with some sadness) that the least educated and the least prepared to rule generally out breed their productive counterparts on a ratio of 4 to 1. The universe is structured more like a caste system that allows upward mobility. There are no free rides. Bob Message: #256117, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 10, 1994 10:51:28 PM Subject: #256029-The Awakening From: Laralyn McWilliams 71612,2733 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #256196 (1 reply) Re: ...the least educated and the least prepared to rule generally out-breed their productive counterparts... a) Just because someone is uneducated and unprepared does NOT mean they are least prepared to rule. Don't confuse education with intelligence, or intelligence with superiority. b) The modern concept of America -- and humanism -- is that a person is not less valuable simply because he doesn't wear a suit, or live in the suburbs. America has strayed from the work-ethic, and I agree that we need to stress that more. BUT, on the other hand, many of the people admired in America didn't work that hard for their money, or came upon it dishonestly. In America, good looks or wealth are the primary qualities we seem to require in leaders, and I'm not sure that's any more valuable than anything else. The bottom line is that yes, democracy does penalize those who produce in favor of those who don't. Treating everyone equally -- even the "unproductive" -- guarantees that when YOU or I are injured and unable to work, we receive the same voting, employment, and civil rights as those who wear those silly suits. Message: #256196, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 11, 1994 2:04:19 AM Subject: #256117-The Awakening From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Laralyn McWilliams 71612,2733 (received) Reply: #256292 (1 reply) Laralyn: Thank you for your reply. I could not have provided a better example of liberal thought. "Just because someone is uneducated does not mean they are prepared to rule". Can you see an illiterate person representing us in the United Nations, or Congress or in the Presidency. If a person is unwilling to avail himself of the educational opportunities present in this country, you propose him qualified to rule it? Your logic proves my point that liberalism promotes a standardized mediocrity as the liberal system would promote the ignorant to high levels of power. You promote the ideal of 'humanism' and individual values. It is not the constitutional perogative of the government to control or promote values. It's function is to control certain administrative functions necessary to make the country work. The liberal control has redefined that purpose to include social engineering where the most competitent are penalized for their achievements and the least competitent are rewarded for their lack of social contributions. You concede this later point. Ergo, if one is to use logic as the determining factor, liberalism destroys incentive, rewards non productivity and elevates those least competent to levels of power because it is the 'human and caring' thing do. Liberalism destroys people and countries. You end with that age old liberal line. Yes we penalize those who produce because, after all - they didn't earn it they stole it. The rallying cry of every miscontent, incompetent and wart that has ever grown on society's backside. Why is this relevant to the ufo forum? The universe has a concept that is not found in the liberal philosophy. It is called 'responsibility'. The typical liberal stays up nights thinking up new excuses for his failures and usually placing the blame on the rich folks who stole all their money. The universe does not recognize corrupt philosophies and demands that each take responsibility for their own actions. Those wishing to make the cut at the Rapture, will have done this. Those who don't - won't. Take it for what it's worth friends. Bob Message: #256292, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 11, 1994 8:45:02 AM Subject: #256196-The Awakening From: Laralyn McWilliams 71612,2733 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob, you make the assumption that everyone in America *has* equal educational opportunities. That's fundamentally untrue. Someone from inner city St. Louis or rural Georgia -- whatever his grades -- doesn't have half the chance of getting into Harvard as I had, and I had a much lower chance to get in than someone who could afford a private school. If the class system were entirely based on work ethic, and if we could balance it out so that your initial chances were equal, then I'd be behind you all the way. And even though our educational system and employment system *are* very unbalanced (statistics show that, in equal situations involving equal work and equal education, women and blacks make considerably less than white men, to the tune of the average salary of a woman with a master's degree making less than a man with a high school diploma!), I still agree that to a large extent, you get out of life what you put into it. Everyone's life is a struggle for *something*, be it money, education, or dignity. But you see far to eager to lump folks with similar opinions into a single group, Bob. You say, "The typical liberal stays up nights thinking up new excuses for his failures and usually placing the blame on the rich folks who stole all their money." I certainly hope you don't put me in that group. I've worked for everything I've ever had, and I continue to work two jobs because I want to succeed. And I don't think rich people "stole" my money -- their money is just that, *their* money. As long as they have to follow the same laws as everyone else, it's their business/burden to deal with their money. It's dangerous to operate under stereotypes, but I see that a lot in your post, both about the poor/uneducated and about the "liberal" (although I'm not sure I belong in that category, really). You could just as easily say that the wealthy or the "conservative" person is interested in bettering his lot in life regardless of the effect on others, and that he will use every unfair advantage he has (better educational and medical opportunities, etc.) to improve his lot further. Sure, I think there are some people like that out there, just like there are some people who prefer to take welfare than work, or prefer to sell drugs rather than go to high school. Each person is equally bad, in my eyes, because they feed eachother's actions. But to say that every conservative fits that mold is incorrect, just as it is to say that every poor person is lazy. Message: #256030, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 10, 1994 8:42:09 PM Subject: #255337-Falling Out of Bed From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Shannon + Sara Smith 73521,3045 Sara: Let's make a deal. As you're one who finds benevolent points of views to the things being done to you, I'd like to throw my hat in the ring. I've never had the opportunity or desire to engage in the sorts of behaviors you find unstandable and even acceptable, therefore, I'd like to know when you would find it agreeable for ME to perform these same acts on you. It ought to be an interesting experience. Bob Message: #255995, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 10, 1994 7:20:20 PM Subject: The Awakening From: Steve Quinn 70252,3563 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #256028 (1 reply) Bob, in reference to your post: <> What is the possibility that the Noshaimus are in with the Nordics and are playing good cop, bad cop to make the first billion an entree before they dine on the 4 billion as a main course? How can the contact with the Noshaimus be made to check them out? Once you are aboard the ship it will be rather tough to back out if they prove to be in cahoots with the Nordics. Any relavant thoughts? Steve Message: #256028, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 10, 1994 8:42:00 PM Subject: #255995-The Awakening From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Steve Quinn 70252,3563 Steven: Re: Noshaimus/Nordic joint venture. It is not even a possibility. The difference between Noshaimus and Nordic principally centers on the possession of a soul. The Nordics have none, and are barbarous. A biblical analogy would be the Nordic Satan to the Noshaims God. Bob Message: #256347, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 11, 1994 1:52:27 PM Subject: #256292-The Awakening From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Laralyn McWilliams 71612,2733 (received) Reply: #256398 (1 reply) Laralyn: No I don't make the assumption that all things are equal. It is the liberal who assumes that all things SHOULD be equal and seeks to establish some arbitrary system for making this come about. For instance, you cite unequal eductional opportunities. Why not cite the real inequity? Intelligence is genetic. What you have to work with is what you were born with. How unfair. Perhaps we should execute those born with too many smarts so that we can find some numerical balance that would make things fair. I am not being sarcastic. Today there is a motion before Congress to put racial quotas on executions because it isn't fair that more black murderers are executed over other races. A basic education is available to all levels of society regardless of where you were born at. Granted, those with money buy better situations. Perhaps you should have been prohibited from entering Harvard as it was not fair you had the money to pay the tuition AND had the brains to do the work. No you aren't what I call the 'robber baron' liberal who claims everyone else stole their money. I'd rank you in the 'guilty liberal' who feels bad you got yours but others haven't. According to liberal dictates, if u don't feel this way you are 'insensitive' and elitist. My original point was that liberalism produces a uniform standard of mediocrity. In as much as no one can increase the intelligence of an individual the only other option is to decrease the standards thus insuring the less qualified individual can enjoy the benefits of the work he can not perform. In the beginning of affirmatative action, Harvard set aside a number of places for minority students and admission testing was waived. Most flunked out in the first six months, a few didn't. However, those positions deprived qualified applicants of their right to a higher education. Ie: Lower standard and the expense of those who can do. I agree - we should kill all white men. Would this make things equal enough for u? Your typical white male is more aggressive, more motivated and willing to work hours and do things that 'most' women are not willing to do. This fact is reflected in the numbers of stressed out women who are entering menopause early (stress related) and suffering other illnesses. You cite that it's dangerous to use stereotypes. I use them because THEY WORK 90+% of the time. You use a variant of the stereotype the statistic. It's the same thing assuming the typing is done without bias. Again, my point here is one of responsibility. Taking it for yourself, and expecting that others take it for themselves. As to the inequities of intelligence etc. - each to their own abilities. There's a place at the table for everyone who's willing to earn their right to be there. Armageddon is a judgement day scenario. I was amazed to discover the criteria for making the cut isn't how holy you are, whether your go to church or any of the the common religious beliefs we were brought up on. The conquest of fear is the central issue and responsibility is a related adjunct. Bob Message: #256398, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 11, 1994 4:05:17 PM Subject: #256347-The Awakening From: Bob P./UFOLOGY 75310,3312 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob and Laralyn, The thread has evolved into a confrontation of philosophies. Before it gets any more heated, please remember that this section of the forum is not to discuss/debate these. Please swing the subject back on topic, or take this thread elsewhere for discussion. Thanks Message: #256602, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 11, 1994 10:31:18 PM Subject: #256029-The Awakening From: Wayne Walusiak/IL 72366,421 To: westbrook 71705,262 re: disk Need your address ! re:filling the 'boats' no problem Oh, oh ! Us lesser mental types may be in trouble ! There might not be any room when the real smarties show up and get on ! re: expanded mental functions for mankind All RIGHT! It would be about time !!!! re: 'Democracy' in the U.S. I certainly agree with you more. I find it hard to believe that when the liberals get outnumbered by the 'breeders' that there will not be a 'tyranny of the majority'. Then guess who gets the short end of the stick. Only hope is that Armageddon - in some form - arrives.... Message: #256680, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jul 12, 1994 2:09:07 AM Subject: #256398-The Awakening From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Bob P./UFOLOGY 75310,3312 Bob P I addressed the relevancy in the post. I am not yet heated but will see if I can work up some passion. Bob Message: #256681, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jul 12, 1994 2:09:09 AM Subject: #256602-The Awakening From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Wayne Walusiak/IL 72366,421 Al: 8707-D Lindley #125 Northridge, CA 91325 Bob Message: #256981, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jul 12, 1994 8:44:16 PM Subject: #256030-Falling Out of Bed From: Shannon + Sara Smith 73521,3045 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob, I am applying a different standard of behavior to aliens. You are an Earthling. It's the same as if I were a Dolphin and you were a scientist. I wouldn't hold your treatment of me against you. Sara Message: #257468, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Jul 13, 1994 7:54:25 PM Subject: #256347-The Awakening From: Fred Lapides 75142,3651 To: westbrook 71705,262 right on wes. Lelts bump off the bright folks. And make room for the abstractionists like you and me. Wha;t the hell are we talking about? Have yoiu worked with your hands for a living? Have you been in the trenches? etc. Mao was right. Send the intellelcts to the rice paddies so they can learn about those they talk about and screw over and exploit. No, not everyone was born alike. But when you go into the army for your country and die or get wounded all are alike, except those who have connections and get okut of serving. Message: #257466, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Jul 13, 1994 7:51:04 PM Subject: #256196-The Awakening From: Fred Lapides 75142,3651 To: westbrook 71705,262 Reply: #257576 (2 replies) West...all the nonsense yoiu are spouting. How much govt money do you take, have you taken, will you take? Without the govt and the liberal policies since the 1930s this country would have gone under. The values you put forth are those that corrupt, spoil, etc. I am for the individual etc. but without constraints, your biz guys are thieves. I know. I was one. Message: #257135, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Jul 13, 1994 12:59:28 AM Subject: #256981-Falling Out of Bed From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Shannon + Sara Smith 73521,3045 Sara: So, I take it I'm not invited to abuse you. What a bigot! How do you know that their abuse is necessarily better than my abuse. I'm a quick learner. Bob Message: #257680, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jul 14, 1994 2:00:23 AM Subject: Victimization From: PJ 73363,1075 To: westbrook 71705,262 (to Sara) <> Abuse comes in a lot of forms. *Aliens* could, *maybe,* make her a victim. *You* could, *definitely,* make her BELIEVE she was one. As a hypnotist I'm a little hazy on the end resultant difference. PJ Message: #258338, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jul 15, 1994 2:20:28 AM Subject: #257468-The Awakening From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Fred Lapides 75142,3651 Fred: I'll agree that a bullet is the most non discriminatory thing on earth. Once fired, it cares not who it hits. I am not an abstractionist. I prefer to think of myself as a pragmatic idealist. The ideals serve no purpose, however, if they don't work. Bob Message: #258339, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jul 15, 1994 2:20:30 AM Subject: #257609-The Awakening From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Robert L. Anello 73144,1445 (received) Robert: I wouldn't think of sending a Gray after Fred. He's entitled to his opinion. Likewise, he's entitled to be wrong Each to his own ability. Bob Message: #258337, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jul 15, 1994 2:20:27 AM Subject: #257466-The Awakening From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Fred Lapides 75142,3651 Conservatives are thiefs? Fascinating. I've never collected welfare, never received free medical services, pay my taxes and derive no sustinence from government in any way or form. Instead, it is the other way around. Government feeds off of me and takes my hard earned money to benefit those will serve no useful function in society. Guess one of us should start looking for a new planet to move to. I'll be first to volunteer. Bob Message: #258336, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jul 15, 1994 2:20:24 AM Subject: #257680-Victimization From: westbrook 71705,262 To: PJ 73363,1075 (received) Reply: #258370 (3 replies) PJ: I've attempted to use absurdity to illustrate the point. Does the tree make a sound when it falls in the forest if no one is there to hear it? Obviously yes. However, the ability of the Nordics to blitz short term memory AS WELL AS to install memories and feelings contrary to those of the actual event. In my own abduction in 1963, I did not feel it was a bad experience. However, once I relived the encounter via hypnosis, I discovered that what I believed and what actually occur were worlds apart. The question becomes, at what price the truth? I'd suggest you consider that you explore the possibility, your attitudes on this may not be entirely your own. Certainly the lack of logic in how you would apply human abuse against alien abuse shows a clear lack of focus. Abuse is abuse regardless of where it comes from or the pretext which is used to deliver it. Bob Message: #258370, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jul 15, 1994 4:25:15 AM Subject: #258336-Victimization From: PJ 73363,1075 To: westbrook 71705,262 << In my own abduction in 1963, I did not feel it was a bad experience. However, once I relived the encounter via hypnosis, I discovered that what I believed and what actually occur were worlds apart. The question becomes, at what price the truth? >> Yeah, well, that's exactly the point Bob, and thanks for that insight. Your hypnotist may have been worse for you than any alien. UFO magazine did a recent issue on that very subject, in fact, of the role of hypnosis in all these memories and the interpretations and emotional results of the sessions. (It took my friend, a hypnotist and asst. editor of the mag, months to finally get this topic addressed. And she was not overly popular as a result, I assume.) You have no trouble assuming that aliens are killing your short term memory and implanting memories into your brain, but you don't consider that hypnosis is the tool of choice for altering memories (as well as reaction to memories). You love to tell everybody how irrational *they* are Bob, but this is just such an obvious point I don't see how you can overlook it. PJ Message: #258372, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jul 15, 1994 4:34:09 AM Subject: #258336-Victimization From: PJ 73363,1075 To: westbrook 71705,262 <> Thanks, good idea. I was probably abducted by aliens and brainwashed. That would explain the inability of my now overstressed neural circuits to buy into any theory which I feel assumes victimization, including that 'anybody stupid enough to think they're NOT being victimized is obviously just DOUBLY victimized because they've had their memories wiped and then were BRAINWASHED into thinking they WEREN'T.' This is a convenient perspective, as it of course eliminates all other viewpoints as "obviously brainwashed into believing something different than what I do." On the other hand, perhaps *I* am an alien, or part alien, which explains my terrible attempts to help brainwash the humans on this planet into thinking that maybe experience can be what they make it, they/we don't know enough to assume on possible motivations and reasons, and that nothing is gained for an individual by their just assuming they are a victim -- of anything. I"m probably spreading disinformation in my local neighborhood even as you read. Actually, it occurs to me that the foregoing is going to come off as hostility-humor when actually it just seems humorous to me. It's 2:35am and I"m half brain dead (those worn out neural circuits, you know), so if this seems rude I apologize, I'm always a lousy job at "how things will go over" at about this hour. PJ <--- always tempted, just by your extreme position on things, to joke, "I have to go to sleep now, so they can come and take my eggs." Message: #258373, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jul 15, 1994 4:35:25 AM Subject: #258336-Victimization From: PJ 73363,1075 To: westbrook 71705,262 << Certainly the lack of logic in how you would apply human abuse against alien abuse shows a clear lack of focus. >> I think you're thinking of the thread with Sara/Shannon Smith. PJ Message: #258473, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jul 15, 1994 10:52:08 AM Subject: #258337-The Awakening From: John W. Ratcliff 70253,3237 To: westbrook 71705,262 (deletable) >>pay my taxes and derive no sustinence from government in any way or form. You drive on roads and bridges built with your tax-dollars. You are protected from invasion by the US military with your tax dollars. You are protected from outright anarchy in the streets by police, paid for with your tax dollars. If you went to public school, or your children do, they are educated with your tax dollars. These are a few examples of benefits you derive, and may sound like little relative to your contribution. Additionally, this is only a small portion of how your total tax dollar is spent (most going to international bankers, the Illuminati (woo..woo..let's all get paranoid and scared. ) via the national debt. Most social programs certainly don't affect you either. I only stated the above to point out you do get, just a little tinsy personal benefit from your taxes. It's one of the main reasons I insist on sending my children to public school, since I paid for it already. John Message: #258766, S/10 Soc./Politics/Media Date: Fri, Jul 15, 1994 9:31:09 PM Subject: #258473-The Awakening From: westbrook 71705,262 To: John W. Ratcliff 70253,3237 (deletable) John: Are you under the impression that if one receives something for his tax dollar that he is in the same genre as a 4th generation welfare receipent? I Pay for the right to use the highways every time I buy a gallon of gas, (36 cents a gallon) or renew my tags. I pay excise taxes on the tires on my car. I pay additional taxes imbedded into the cost of parts that go on the car. I don't RECEIVE something for nothing. I receive a service that I paid for. Social programs do affect me. I get nothing back for my tax dollar. While I can pay my taxes and drive on a road, I have no use for (nor does anyone else) for a chronic welfare recepient. As for the Illuminati (Nice name for Nordics) I don't promote paranoia. I promote solution. The point here is that there are those who provide and those who consume. In a conservative society, there is a balance between the two ends. In a liberal society, it is weighted in favor of the consumption, by those who don't necessarily produce anything except new and expanded generations of non producing consumers. An external for wishing to destablize a society would promote these negative internal forces. A study of the last days of the Roman Empire show the ulitmate decadence of liberalism in the extreme. Bob Message: #258769, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jul 15, 1994 9:31:24 PM Subject: #258370-Victimization From: westbrook 71705,262 To: PJ 73363,1075 PJ Your suggestion that as I underwent hypnosis to regain lost memory is an invalid tool is not supported by years of fact. Police organizations commonly use it to enhance a witnesses memory of a crime. Some they felt traumatized by enough they sought to block the memory. A point of commonality with ufo victims. However, to address yourpoint of my perceptions and my two hypnosis sessions... 1. The sessions were video taped and I have the tapes. 2. I have created a transcript of these tapes and have examined them at length. 3. I am recognized as an expert interrogator. Ie: I know leading and suggestive questions when I see them. During the sessions the hypnotist pressed me on points that I did not have answers for. To each of these, I said "I don't know". 4. I am convinced, and have the professional standing to have an opinion on the subject, that the interrogation was professional. And no suggestions were proffered. Perhaps the most important thing you neglected to mention in your post is that there is only one other alternative to hypnosis - drugs. We have no other methodolgy available for reaching this info. Should we forestall our search for the truth another 150 years until the technology becomes available to do it electronically? Such a proposal is escapist and irrational. Bob Message: #258768, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jul 15, 1994 9:31:18 PM Subject: #258372-Victimization From: westbrook 71705,262 To: PJ 73363,1075 A wonderful piece of sarcasim. I take you don't aren't a charter member of the Lorainna Bobbit Fan Club of liberal female victims, currently targeting any white male available for extermination as a genetic engineered abuser. Your witty post balances two extremes choosing to decree one as nonsense and the other as valid. Specifically.. Your 'belief' of what goes on with your life versus your may-be suspicions that you have not confirmed nor denied are valid. Based on our previous conversations, you indicated you've had experiences with Grays since childhood and have even coined a cute childlike name for them. The facts, from a myriad of sources, that the extraction of genetic material occurs when these cute little guys show up. Memories of the encounters vary from benign to nightmarish to no memory at all. The later being very common. Never the less, inconsistencies exist that cause some people to eventually start looking for answers. On the other side of the coin we have a belief. Something not necessarily supported by any fact. Actually, it is more of an idea - an abstract. At our own level of technology we know that ideas and beliefs can be implanted via suggestion getting people to believe wild things, like their father is really the Devil and so on. Is it illogical to propose that a species with advanced technology would be able to do the same thing we can do? The obvious answer is no. I've said a number of times, the only key available to understanding what is going on is logic, deduction and inference. Belief's become valid only once they become supportable by something other than another belief. Bob Message: #258767, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jul 15, 1994 9:31:11 PM Subject: #258373-Victimization From: westbrook 71705,262 To: PJ 73363,1075 PJ You're right - wrong party. Thanks for the correction. Bob Message: #258785, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jul 15, 1994 10:05:18 PM Subject: #258768-Victimization From: John W. Ratcliff 70253,3237 To: westbrook 71705,262 (deletable) Westbrook, Your beliefs are based on your experiences that the rest of us have not shared. Can you show a little understanding to those of us who have not been so vividly impacted by this level of experiential data? Give me credit for even considering UFOs, abductions, etc. without ever having had my normal grounded reality challenged in the least other than from reading books, and accounts of other persons. (With virtually no supporting evidence.) I understand how CERTAIN you are about your own experiential reality. Can you understand how others do not/cannot share that same level of certainty? And that their questioning does not necessarily constitue a personal attack on you? I personally am not yet prepared to assign hardly any physical literal reality to the abduction phenomena, much less being able to understand the underlying purpose, methodology, names, labels, images, and other details you carry with such certainty. Is it too much to ask for a little understanding on your part for some who have not shared your same experiences, who are attempting to reach a personal understanding of the phenomena and respect for the experiences of those involved? How do you 'know' of specfic alien races? Motives, motivations, for all persons involved, even when contradicting reports exist in literature? What certainty/proof can you share with us? (I know your own personal experiences must have great vividness for you personally, but without further elucidantion and evidence, it means little to the non-experiencer.) From reading the chapters from your book and your posts, it seems you continously make statements of 'fact' relative to your own experiential reality, without offering any supporting evidence for that world view? John Message: #258915, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Jul 16, 1994 12:59:14 AM Subject: #258768-Victimization From: Alain Beaulieu/ASYSOP 70403,3645 To: westbrook 71705,262 Westbrook and PJ >> A wonderful piece of sarcasim. I take you don't aren't a charter member >> of the Lorainna Bobbit Fan Club of liberal female victims, Before things get more heated, I would recommend staying away from personally attacking each others. Alain Message: #259188, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Jul 16, 1994 11:07:06 AM Subject: #258768-Victimization From: PJ 73363,1075 To: westbrook 71705,262 << A wonderful piece of sarcasim. I take you don't aren't a charter member of the Lorainna Bobbit Fan Club of liberal female victims, currently targeting any white male available for extermination as a genetic engineered abuser. >> Uh, no, actually, I seem to recall that *I'm* the one supporting the "non-victim" theory around here! My brain must be turned off this morning or something, because your post doesn't seem pointed enough that I can take any given paragraph and say "he's saying this" and respond... I'm not totally sure what you're saying in any of it, sorry. I have a question. Why do you suppose they bother teaching me language (not a spoken thing; sort of a 4-D geometric-conceptual thing) or reading (also something totally different than what we have) or other things I consider fairly benign topics that take time and effort on their part, if their only goal is to "take genetic material" from me?? After all, according to your theories they've already been "taking this material from me for a long time." (I'm not sure I would refuse them it, even if I *knew* that's what they were doing, I admit.) They could continue taking it without bothering to educate me. How would this "spiritual and educational" scenario that *I* have experienced fit in with the destructive, traumatic scenario that *you* have experienced? PJ Message: #259391, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Jul 16, 1994 3:59:27 PM Subject: #259188-Victimization From: westbrook 71705,262 To: PJ 73363,1075 PJ: Exactly, you AREN't supporting the idea of victimiation. I figured one good piece of sarcasim deserved one good thought provoking retort. Apparently it went past Alain as he deemed it assaultive. Booooooooooo on Alain. To answer your question, we are again returning to the subject of perceptions. Can you believe your own lying eyes? Answer is, sometimes you can and sometimes you can't. It presupposes that your perceptual appliances have not been altered, modified or confonded. Why would they teach? Assuming they have actually taught you anything, the question arises as to the purpose. The logic of purpose demands that if they teach YOU something THEY will later benefit from it. To put this into the proper perspective (and it is not intended as an insult Alain), Why would you teach your dog not to mess the carpet? These are arrogant people who view us as little better than insects. IF there were any respect for us at all, they would ASK for what they wanted. However, as we don't ask the lab rat if it's okay to experiment with it, they don't ASK us. As for why you feel this is a spiritual experience, there are two possibilities. First, you've been told so and while in the highly suggestive state, you believe it. The second, is that you possess one very neat protective device between your ears - the subconscious. When you see something that you can't handle, it filters and modifys the subject generating imagery you can handle. Example: one lady I've met here on cis, recalls her sighting of the craft (right before her abduction) as a big black bird. It was too freaky for her to recall it as a ufo, so her mind generated a safer image until such time as she's ready (if ever) to address it for what it really was. I've met two women here who have had fetus's taken from them in the first trimester, one of them several times. This is the end product of the prodcedures being implimented on us. The birth of hybrids. I've wondered exactly how the procedure works for taking the egg from a woman. With me, they simply cut me open. This would be the logical approach with a female, although I really don't know. Next time you go in for a pap, have your md check out the uterine lining for evidence of birth. One of these ladies had evidence of mulitple births although she herself has never delivered. There are really only two possibilities here. You're an egg donor or a breeder or both. I'm going to upload a chapter on Satanism and ufos. It will be filed under the search word Satan/Satanism. We currently have a phenomena where people are having false memories and are accusing parents and relatives of Satanic practices even though there never is any physical evidence. This is the antithesis of your experience. Both, however, have points of commonality. Both are unsubstaniated beliefs. Both are extreme. On a personal note PJ, I'm short cute and avaiable. Bob Message: #259449, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Jul 16, 1994 6:35:11 PM Subject: #258767-Victimization From: Peter Partridge/ASYSOP 70762,1512 To: westbrook 71705,262 Hi Bob, I've been reading your messages and reports for awhile now and have been comparing your accounts with my own experiences and those of Star, Steve and others. My friend Rob Shepherd was also treated by Derrel Sims of HUFON and his accounts are quite similar to yours, in that the victimization, resistance, and negative recall of the abductions was not the first screened-memory, but was revealed later under hypnotherapy. His first and early impressions, like my own, were more of having experienced a somewhat uncomfortable but benevolent event. It seems the violence isn't revelaed until probed by hypnotherapy. Steve has had experience with author and amateur hypnotherapist David Jacobs, author of "Secret Life", and I have other friends in my abductee network who have been treated by his colleague and teacher Budd Hopkins, of "Missing Time" and "Intruders" notoriety. Another author and hypnotherapist involved is John E. Mack as you know from messages about his recent book "Abductions". What seems to becoming more clear in all of these abduction analysis writings, particularly in John Spencer's book "Perspectives", is that the hypnotherapist involved has *some* influence on the type of abduction recall his/her clients have - even when leading questions are ruled out. It seems that the relationship between abduction victim and therapist involves a subconscious communication between them that colors the outcome a bit. Budd's patients have similar abduction experiences and attitudes about the Greys - more benevolent than, say, Jacob's patients who, comparatively, experience more pain and anger. Mack's patients are similar to Hopkins' in sharing a sense of possible "good" behind the event. Sims' patients are almost all totally outraged at the aliens for a very painful victimization. FWIW in my view the abductions are flagrant, abusive and violent violations by uncaring intruders. I think the more amateur (untrained or less experienced) hypnotherapists unconsciously mislead their clients - perhaps out of empathy for them or from their own "hopes" about what is happening - into thinking there is a benevolent, higher purpose involved - or that the original, more pleasant screen memories are partly true. From my own personal experience I'm with you. The screen memories are just that - bogus deceptions - and the true event is simple, unadulterated abuse and invasion. This applies to all "Grey" abductions orchestrated behind the scenes by the "Nordic" types, at least as best as I can determine so far. I have listened carefully to the argument that "we get what we expect" but I don't think that works in the case of abductions. I was an innocent child that had no expectations one way or another, and I was hurt. The 1960 screen memory of the "dream or simultaneous shared nightmare" of a little grey man visiting my brother and I at night and "probing" us, physically and intimately, involved threats that he would push our cabin into the river with his "machine" if we didn't cooperate. Maybe the early abductions were just less sophisticated than those today?! Pete Message: #259504, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Jul 16, 1994 8:19:20 PM Subject: #259391-Victimization From: Alain Beaulieu/ASYSOP 70403,3645 To: westbrook 71705,262 >> Apparently it went past Alain as he deemed it assaultive. Booooooooooo >> on Alain. Hey! My first language is French so there will be things that will get lost in the translation! Alain Message: #259657, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 17, 1994 12:52:09 AM Subject: #259449-Victimization From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Peter Partridge/ASYSOP 70762,1512 Peter: "An uncomfortable but benevolent" is close to my description. I considered it 'benign'. The unusual thing about the 63 case is that I wasn't abducted. I ran into their ship, fully conscious while it was sitting on the ground and I became a target of opportunity. A subconscious communication between the hypnotist and the abductee? I can't speak for experiences with other hypnotists, but as far as Simms goes, I spent the weekend at his house. Incidentally, he doesn't charge for abductee hypnosis. Something that can't be said for the professional ufo types who have 'other than motives'. For instance, Hopkins gets books out of it and so on. There was an initial interview wherein I was given forms and asked standardized questions. Many of the answers I gave were in the negative. For instance, I had no recall of ever seeing a Gray. During the 63 encounter, I did, however, develope what I call a Red. A much bigger version of a Gray (7 ft), red in color, and considerably brighter than the average Gray. I estimate IQ at 200+. Grays typically are in the 80 to 100 range. Damned stupid in my book. thru the hypnosis, I developed details that I had not consciously 'known' AND there were some odd coinincidences too. I was bagged on December 14, 1963. I was told never to go back there. I returned there on December 16, 1993. I felt like a Salmon returning to spawn. I did this before I went to Simms. I found the spot and had that 'old time' feeling while I was there. It's no longer being used as a landing zone, however, I have located the current one. I haven't decided what I'm going to do with it yet. I don't think the abduction business is any different today than yesterday. There are differences in how they do it. For instance, they know children are totally innocent and there is no possibility of injury - so they will materialize in the child's room. They will not, however, do this with an adult unless they are certain that he isn't going to wake up. With a child, they don't care. When I first ran into the two Nordics, I instinctive knew they were 'space people'. Simms asked me how I knew this. I 'just knew'. Sometime after the sessions I gave this some thought. It was obvious to me that if I knew, then I had seen them before. I focused on this and learned that my first encounter was at age 7, the night my grandmother died. Hypnosis and polygraph machines have one thing in common. They're only as good as the operator. I was impressed by Derrel Simms' sincerity, and his placement of knowledge and truth ahead of profit. The Mufon recommend hypnotists I contacted here in the LA area wanted 150.00 an hour and it immediately fueled my suspicions of their objectivity as there is a built in incentive to keep the deal going as long as possible. I would add that I am strongly disinclined to turn my head over to just anyone. Derrel seems to view me as an unusual character. Not so much that my experiences are unique but as to what I've done with them. Some of these ufo types have been on this for years. Even so, left to my own devices (principally logic), I feel I've gone far past where most of them are. I went to (1) Mufon meeting local to me, didn't bother listening to the lecture but queried those running it. What I found were a group of profit motivated individuals who weren't inclined to admit their ignorance on the subject matter I was asking questions on and had nothing to offer me. As with all things there are good and bad, and varying degrees of competency. Based on these experiences, I decided NOT to read any ufo books and to follow my own nose. As a professional investigator I am suspicious when 2 and 2 make 3. Each one of us holds the truth of our own experiences. And I hope the info I've been providing is help in that quest. I'd also like to point out that I don't have ego or profit angles on this. My ego is already large enough to fill a stadium and as long as I have 10 bucks more than I actually need - I'm okay there too. Tonight, I'm going to post information on the Lucifer Rebellion and how it is pertinent to the subject of ufo's. Thank you for your kind words. Bob Message: #259658, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 17, 1994 12:53:09 AM Subject: The Lucifer Rebellion From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Westbrook 71705,262 (received) There are three prime players in the ufo game. Us, them and THEM. We know the bad guys, the Nordics and their various servant players. The good guys are, in religious terms, God, angels, and their various servants. Built into our religions is the concept of spiritual or evolutionary growth. It is true that this is the 'universe's' goal for us. However, we were cut off from the source a long time ago. Not for anything we as humans had done, but because of the misdeeds of those running the show for the good guys. In that story, there were/are three individuals who are of some note. Lucifer, an angel of some rank and assigned this area of space and authorized to govern 100 inhabited and developing worlds. His immediate assistant, Satan and Plantary Prince Caligastria. All three of these people were/are Seraphim (angels). All had proven themselves to be people of exceptional ability. A disagreement insued between Lucifer and corporate headquarters. Lucifer proposed changing the game plan. In a universe that is immortal, time is not a prime consideration. However, he proposed that the evolutionary process could be speeded up substantially if things were toughened on the planatary population. He took this proposal up the chain of command and it was rejected several times. The universe uses a gentle step up step procedure in its evolutionary plans. First, food and housing needs must be accomodated. People have to be taught to use their brains and their hands to provide their basic needs. Then they are given several simple commandments. Basic common sense material. And so it goes, step by step by step. It matters not how long it takes. Of Lucifer's 100 world domain, 30 of them revolted, included Caligastia and Earth. Immediately, this section of the universe was separated from the universal communication circuits to limit the spread of the contagion. The only form of contact has been by personal messenger since that time AND we were separated along with it. Never the less, Adam and Eve were sent here to attempt to fix the damage that had been done by Caligastia and Satan. Every bit of progress that had been made had been deliberately wiped out in the rebellion. And Caligastia was undetered. He focused his sights on Eve and using his exceptional intellect and guile, convinced her to mate with one of the Terran species. In doing so, she betrayed her trust and became a criminal. Adam later did the same as he so loved his mate that he chose to share her fate. Caligastia is, therefore, the snake in the garden. The universe is forgiving. Of the 30 Planetary Prince's revolted, all but one has repented his crime, Caligastia nor have Lucifer or Satan. The judgement and disposition of these individuals was held in a holding pattern for a number of years. In Terran terms, that will be 1999. Caligastia was rendered mortal and incarnate from the time of the rebellion and has been living here with us, unaware of his past or his identity. He becomes an important character in as much as he has now regained his awareness of his identity and his crime. His incarnation was intended to give him a taste and knowledge of what it was like to live in the mess he created. He has learned these lessons and has received forgiveness for his crimes against the universe and those against humanity. Following this, his position, and rank were restored to him and he is now becoming operational here. Lucifer and Satan remain unchanged. Satan, following the rebellion, sought to establish his own little universe but he lacked two essential ingredients, life plasam and souls. He chose to steal reproductive capabilities from us through the abduction arrangement. He has never been able to generate a soul. Using the small number of Seraphim that remained with him after the rebellion, He created a half breed race of super humans we today call Nordics. Today, there are half Nordics walking around Earth who don't have a clue as to their lineage. Those chosen for off planet service have a leg up. Only a few are chosen from those born for off planet service and awareness. This reflects practical limitations with regards to their resources. Satan also chose to use our genetic material for creating those bastardizations of life we call Grays as well as other hybrid species. Some remain in service to the Nordic Empire and others were seeded as new life on other planets. None of this would have been possible had it not been for Caligastria's complicity in the rebellion. It follows that the Nordic problem AND those resultant in our 'quality of life', can be laid at the door of one individual, Planetary Prince Caligastia, #9344 of the Second Order of Seraphim. Of this individual, he is now alive, mortal and residing here. He is aware of who he is and going to serve his assigned function according to universal dictates. In the Armageddon scenerio his first assignment is to act as universal ambassador to the Nordics. He is to arrange contact (this has already been done) and to ascertain whether or not they wish to petition for universal membership. These are not a people given to 'asking' for anything so the mission will be a difficult task. Once he ascertains whether or not they wish membership, he will make a series of decisions affecting their future. Those remaining with Satan will face unverisal judgement - extinction. Following this, Terran matters will be dealt with as scored in Revelations. How do I know these things? Good question. Has Westbrook had a schizophrenic break with reality or was he ever connected in the first place? Each can judge me as you will. I was recently contacted by the Noshaimus thru one of the two land lines we have available. I was told to go by a book, The Urantia. It was pointed out to me that most that I had written in my book was in the Urantia. After sitting 8 to 10 hours a day in front of a terminal, the last thing I want to do with my free time is read. I was further dismayed by the fact that the book is over 2000 pages long. However, I did as requested. Upon examination, I found that not only is most of my book found in varying places, but I've added substantial detail to the material that isn't found in the Urantia. For the record, I purchased the book two weeks ago, and used a credit card to purchase (generating a paper trail) it lest some have doubts about the date. For those in Los Angeles, who would like to avoid buying dozens of ufo books (including my own) you can get it from The Bodhi Tree in Hollywood. I believe they mail order as well, cost = 48.00. It is the greatest single repository of truth that I have found. Of Caligastia. I am acquainted with the fellow and will continue to report that which can be reported here. Of his staff of one hundred who were assigned here, all but 38 repented their crimes and were taken home. The 38, like Caligastia, were incarnated and will soon become aware of who they are. First of these is Charlasgastia, the custodian of records. This individual, while not a participant in the crimes of the rebellion, chose (out of love for Caligastia to remain behind voluntarily) and to assist him at this moment in time. I am not aware that Charlagastia's name appears in the Urantia and I have no intention of reading the whole book. Message: #259855, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 17, 1994 3:21:11 PM Subject: #259658-The Lucifer Rebellion From: Alain Beaulieu/ASYSOP 70403,3645 To: westbrook 71705,262 >> Of the 30 Planetary Prince's revolted, all but one has repented his >> crime, Caligastia nor have Lucifer or Satan. You probably mean all but three? >> universal ambassador to the Nordics. He is to arrange contact (this >> has already been done) Can you tell us more about that? >> I was further dismayed by the fact that the book is over 2000 pages >> long. Yes. I heard it is a big book, and I think, somewhat hard to read. Right? >> A disagreement insued between Lucifer and corporate headquarters. That's essentially what Rael (from the Raelian Movement) is claiming. But you provided much more amplifications on the details and what can be expected in the future. Alain Message: #260055, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 17, 1994 8:56:15 PM Subject: #259855-The Lucifer Rebellion From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Alain Beaulieu/ASYSOP 70403,3645 Alain: No I mean one. Of the 30 Planetary Princes who were in the revolt, all but one repented his crime. Lucifer and Satan were not Planetary Princes but in upper management over the Princes. Caligastia, upon becoming aware, was assigned the task of tying up the loose ends of the mess he created. At the top of that mess are the Nordics ie: the first consideration that must be dealt with IF they can be dealt with. He has laid ground rules of behavior that must be adhered to as a condition of talks. Abusive or abductive behavior heads the top of that list. We believe they are attempting to comply, however, have a rather unique problem in as much as Charlagastia, is currently impregnated by two hybrid fetuses. One at 9 weeks and one at 5 weeks. The former is ready for extraction. Last night they made several futile attempts to abduct this individual. We believe they are attempting to comply by shutting down their operation with this individual. This, however, remains to be seen. Upon compliance, Caligastia will make arrangements to meet with the Nordics off planet. There he will listen to their ideas and wants. Following this, he will make a series of decisions regarding what he hears. The Nordics are an arrogant lot who have a tendency to believe they are the supreme rulers. They also have a profound propencity towards dishonesty. While Caligastia will listen, it is with a highly skeptical ear. Re: The Urantia I posted my inclusion of some of the material of this book so that 1. Others could benefit from it and 2. to make disclosure of a source that was not my own. However, I have not read anything in the book that indicates what the source of the rebellion was caused by. Instead, it focuses on the personalities of the individuals and cites their individual failings rather than the unique reasons for it. It does repeat Lucifer's declaration of Independance. It is basically rhetoric along the liberal lines we hear from Democrats today. My comments on the evoluntary squabble are my own and are in my book. I do not find the book difficult to read. However, I would recommend starting at page 741. I have no knowledge or information regarding the Rael's so I am not able to comment one way or the other. As to the future, that depends upon the Nordics. I will continue to report that which is reportable. Events are progressing at a pretty quick clip. I will add some detail, however, on Nordic abduction capabilities. My cage works - very well. No one who has constructed the device has reported an abduction while they were in the cage. Further OBE abduction is possible. However, they can not program your mind in such a state and obviously they can't get their hands on you. Voluntary OBE communication with the Nordics is also possible. We have established a two tier system for communications. IN, OUT and both. I have used Nordic wires - abductees I've met here who are so wired in as to be in nearly instanteous contact. I have one such person available at the moment and Charlagastia has one as well. Furthermore, she has successfully attempted voluntary OBE. Having failed to abduct last night, they attempted involutary OBE. They failed due only to the strength of will of the individual. The cage does not protect from involuntary OBE's. However, other than possibly scaring the hell out of you, they are not harmful. We, however, reserve voluntary OBE for the occasions where protocol would demand it. This structure will be rendered obsolete once conditions have been met and protocols established. The Universe demands a civilized forum and will not settle for anything less. Bob Message: #260267, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 18, 1994 3:33:15 AM Subject: #259391-Victimization From: PJ 73363,1075 To: westbrook 71705,262 <> Oh come on now Bob, talk about creative journalism, that "lying" part in there is pretty slanted. But you do have a point, I mean, I realize that the "guising" is difficult to get past. (Or not difficult, really, but first you have to *realize* what's going on, instead of blithely assuming you're in a dream or whatever.) <> That's possible, and I've considered it. But I guess I still hold to the theory that if I were a slave, I'd want all the education and relational skills with them I could get, so I could work in the drawing room. And if one were going to have as much chance at, shall we say, rebellion or escape knowledge in the future, getting to know them and having a decent relationship with them is the most logical route. And I do *not* say that any of this paranoia crap is true, mind you, I'm just trying to address the subjects you brought up head on. <> Well, we don't ask birds if they want to be captured and tagged "for their own good." Besides, I have always been positive and even requesting of "them." (Who may *not* be "the greys" as you call them, we've been operating on that assumption but we could be wrong.) One thing I cannot do is say they've done something without my permission. I mean criminy, I meditate and *invite* them in. Part of seeing it from a spiritual angle and not really buying into the typical alien ideology I guess. <> Could be true. Believe me Bob, I know the subconscious routine -- I studied hypnosis fanatically, and even formally, for nearly 10 years and practiced it for a living for awhile as well -- so I have to agree that it's entirely possible that I have re-interpreted this as something appealing to me, once my subconscious concluded that it couldn't be changed. Actually, along that vein -- not that I want to encourage this belief in you, but I must confess -- I quite consciously and deliberately attack any situation that I find unpleasant and/or unchangeable with a deliberately positive attitude, viewing it as an "adventure" rather than a trauma. However, I still think that your just "assuming" this is the case is, in my own personal experience, totally without basis in fact. <> Hilarious. Actually, one of my first major encounters with the "group" (whoever they are) and me-him (a blonde guy, like a young Rutger Hauer, who somehow I know is sort of me? I don't know how this works) began with this large black bird - human sized - that accompanied me around narrating what was going on for me. I know this has no relationship, I just think it's a funny coincidence, the black birds and blonde guys. :) <> Actually, I find this illogical. Not on your part, on theirs. Whoever it is I'm working with, evolved spiritual being or "alien" (barf, I hate that term), I *know* they can just reach right in the body, while the body is in *this* dimension and you have your eyes wide open. Obviously this is one of the most unique and bizarre feelings of all time. Not to mention a real test of sanity, when the lights are on and your eyes are open and *there's nothing there.* Very physical, don't know how they manage it. But I do know that *if* we're talking about the same entities, they do not require (at least for all things) taking the body anywhere, and they do not require cutting you open. Maybe they used to or something, but obviously not anymore -- they reached right inside my knee and fixed it (and they touched various other parts of my body - weird - it's possible). <<<> Come on Bob, I think the phenomena is called neurotic christians, neurotic therapists, and neurotic people who wanna make $50,000 on talk shows. <> Not to be defensive, but I don't see my experiences as any more unsubstantiated than yours, from the evidence (?) you've listed. <>> rofl!! Well no, sorry, I think I prefer that cold, clammy, smelly, kinda slimy-ish grey texture. PJ (Augh! In trying to get at you I just *totally* grossed myself out!) Message: #260225, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 18, 1994 1:49:24 AM Subject: #259657-Victimization From: Peter Partridge/ASYSOP 70762,1512 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #260229 (1 reply) Bob, Thanks for the insightful reply. I'm enjoying your posts on the Lucifer Rebellion too. I've only skimmed the Book Of Urantia once but plan to have a closer look at it soon. The story of the split between the two "angelic" camps being a precursor to the extraterrestrial divisions today is becoming more a topic of discussion here and elsewhere. The same story is filtering through a lot of current research, so there must be a basis for it. Authors like Sitchin and Bramley are dealing with it and J.J. Hurtak (The Keys Of Enoch) has used it for years as his premise for his research of extraterrestrial hierarchies (that he uses for government sponsored Symposia under the cover of "Free Energy" discussions with international scientists). It's interesting you have been introduced to the same scenario separately and directly. Your assessment of Simms matches Rob's experience with him, although your interactions with the visitors are decidedly different than what Rob has been going through. He's being tracked and taken more frequently (via the blue beam) and has scars to show for what he still has trouble remembering after each incident. I read Derrel Simm's write-up recently revealing a lot of his questionnaire and research findings on commonalities amongst abductees. That Irish and Native Indian heritage in my family seems to apply too! I worked with Simms and HUFON indirectly on researching Project Prometheus, which you might ask him about next visit. My main research is being done through books while yours is more direct. I think it is noteworthy that we still tend to come to the same general conclusions about what we are dealing with here. Each of us on a different path ends up at the common gathering place where preparations are being made and ideas shared. Keep up the good work, and keep us posted. Let me know if ever you need some help. Pete Message: #260229, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 18, 1994 2:03:07 AM Subject: #260225-Victimization From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Peter Partridge/ASYSOP 70762,1512 Peter: Thank you for the encouraging words. As there can only be one truth, per a subject, if follows those seeking it will cross paths in the endeavor. It's surprised me that the truth of things is much easier and simplier than those proposed by religions and less convoluted than those proposed by most philosophies. It is all simple common sense. Re: Simms I am aware of Prometheus. You'll find the subject matter but not the name in my book. The Black Triangular ufo hybrid. FYI, the engine didn't come from Roswell. It came out of a crash in Ohio not that it really matters. Thank you for the kind thoughts. I've often wonder just how many people out there thought me nuts. Bob Message: #260137, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 17, 1994 10:48:19 PM Subject: #259658-The Lucifer Rebellion From: Michael Borger 71736,3374 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #260162 (1 reply) Hello, Bob. Long time no talk, although I have been following your threads and text files with great interest. I really liked the idea of the wire cage defense. It made sense to me, for what it's worth. Have you read the Urantia book? I have read that off and on since 1978 when I found it at an obscure bookstore in North Carolina. Do you have any idea about who the authors are, etc.? Best Regards and Thanks ... Mike Borger Message: #260162, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 17, 1994 11:38:09 PM Subject: #260137-The Lucifer Rebellion From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Michael Borger 71736,3374 Mike: Re: The Cage - Thanks Re: Urantia Urantia Foundation 533 Diversey Parkway Chicago, IL 60614 312-525-3319 Fax 312-525-7739 Message: #260440, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 18, 1994 1:21:26 PM Subject: #260267-Victimization From: westbrook 71705,262 To: PJ 73363,1075 PJ: "The logic of purpose demands that if they teach you something they will later benefit from" I don't think you got my point. We don't teach cattle anything. Sure they may learn when we feed them, or that we know how to milk them, but we certainly don't send them to school. You'd rather be a house slave than a field slave. Me, I'd rather be dead. As for paranoia, I'm not in the slightest degree afraid of these characters. They are controllable and containable. Their weaknesses are numerous and each on of them are exploitable. The question is who controls your life. Given the choice of being treated like a barnyard animal or a sentient, responsible being equal to them, I choose the later. Don't ever mistake superior technology for superior being. So, you've been tagged (as a bird) for your own good. Perhaps you'll share with us what this good is. Do they pay your rent, feed your face or do ANYTHING in a practical sense? Essentially, you're doing OBE's and inviting your own abductions. What a good pet you are. Not only to do not mess the carpet, but you bring the newspaper in too. If this analogy offends you, I'd point out that it is you who used the beloved pet imagery. So... what pieces of wisdom have you received from your Nordic Master's. The meaning of life, the nature of the universe? Are you aware that they have a consistent track record of lying as well? PJ, I'm not assuming anything in the way of factual material. I AM taking what you present as fact and supplying a different interpretation as you. By your own admission, you alter disagreeable substantive material into a form more digestible. You support the practice by calling it 'positive'. The real definition of this is called 'avoidance', a device to protect you from that which is too scarey to deal with. It follows that your perceptions are not reliable and the only person suffering from it - is you. Re: Cutting one open. With me, the had (past tense) a metal tray. On it were two sized surgical knives, sizzors with a flat head on the end (clamps), and metal rods (implants). With me, they cut. Re: Satanic False Memory I investigated one of these cases in Arizona a few years ago. The person you dismiss as a fanatical Christian was in charge of child protective services for the state. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss that which might alter your percepts unless and until you give it a reasonable and objective examination. I don't discount your experiences, I do, however, question your beliefs as to their meaning as they lack any logical basis - with one exception. The only consistent theme, is the need to define the events into something positive - a defense mechanism. Re: preference of the slimy hands..........................Bigot! My slimy hands are much warmer. Bob Message: #260557, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 18, 1994 6:22:28 PM Subject: #259658-The Lucifer Rebellion From: Don Kircher 76346,3475 To: westbrook 71705,262 I own the Urantia Book and hold it in low regard as far as channeled material goes. (I've had my copy along with the condordex for about eight years). Other comments I have read on Urantia which I noted with mild interest were that it was "channeled" from discarnate humans from the lower astral planes. Another very similar work is Beelzebubs Tales to His Grandson by Gurdjieff. My own observation of the material is that it is extremely convoluted and opaque reading. I might add that I read _A LOT_ so I knows it when I sees it. My personal tripe indicator goes wild when I encounter reading of this nature. If the nuggets within are so OCCULT that they must be BURIED within the tome they must either be extremely precious, or they are not... The BEST examples of channeled material leave me feeling positive and empowered with OPTIONS. (Emmanuel, for example) To be ENLIGHTENED is, after all, the goal. Two other outstanding examples for their ringing clarity are Ramtha, and Seth. I would suggest that in the holographic paradigm one's belief system can become one's prison as a self fulfilling prophesy. So when building a belief matrix it is prudent to make it open ended for easy expansion. Or put another way; Nothing real may be threatened Nothing unreal exists Herein lies the peace of God -- A Course in Miracles dlk/CO Message: #260589, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 18, 1994 7:02:06 PM Subject: #260557-The Lucifer Rebellion From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Don Kircher 76346,3475 Don: I'm not inclined to defend the Urantia. Anything is subject to our personal 'tripe' indicators and therefore subject to opinion. I have a different opinion that yours. While you see a convoluted mess, I see one of logic and order. In my book, I deduced the corporate management structure of earth. Further, I produced logic to the idea that we were cut of from headquarters and had been for some time. Then, some two years after I started writing, I see a confirmation of that logic in the Urantia. I am not much of a reader so I won't be able to give you everyone else's opinion on much. I do, however, agree with Einstein's comment that "God does not shoot craps with the universe". Therein lies the crux of The Urantia. It shows an order and a purpose. Coincidentally, that structure is reflected here and there is an identifiable trail of hard history that supports the facts. Channeled information is subjective. However, when it produces real and observable results then one can hardly say it is suspect. For example, take the information in my book and compare it to the Urantia. You will find much of it nearly identical, yet I did not even know the book existed until recently. It follows that the trail of logic expounded in my book supports the Urantia's rendition or perhaps the other way around. In either case, your 'belief' and 'opinion' would seem unsubstianted by history. Even so, I don't consider the book the end all be all. It is missing pieces. In fact, the book itself says these omissions were deliberate. Add to this, that by my own homespun methods I've been able to add some of those censored areas. While I'm a pretty bright fellow, I don't think I'm Einstein material. It follows that all one needs to make it through the discovery process is a logical mind and the determination to follow the trail. I would add that the comments about 'Thought Adjusters' is also accurate. I have been in the company of one for about ten days now. My first impression of these was 'the thought police'. I find that to have been inaccurate. Instead she is quite benign and very helpful. On the down side, as she is decidedly female, she isn't scoring any point with my sex life. Bob Message: #260710, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 18, 1994 10:08:26 PM Subject: #260589-The Lucifer Rebellion From: Don Kircher 76346,3475 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #260743 (1 reply) ^L >"God does not shoot craps with the universe". Therein lies the >crux >of The Urantia. It shows an order and a purpose. Coincidentally, >that >structure is reflected here and there is an identifiable trail >of hard >history that supports the facts. "You think that objects exist independently of you, not realizing that they are instead the manifestations or your own psychological and psychic selves... The fact is that each of you create your own physical reality: and en masse, you create both the glories and the terrors that exist within your earthly experience. Until you realize that you are the creators, you will refuse to accept this responsibility. Nor can you blame a devil for the world's misfortunes. You have grown sophisticated enough to realize that the devil is a projection of your own psyche, but you have not grown wise enough to learn to use your creativity constructively" --Seth, Seth Speaks >You will find much of it nearly identical, yet I did not even >know >the book existed until recently. It follows that the trail of >logic >expounded in my book supports the Urantia's rendition or perhaps >the >other way around. In either case, your 'belief' and 'opinion' >would >seem unsubstianted by history. Synchronicity abounds, Robert, when you are tuned to the possibility. I could say that you also have the right to be wrong (your words) but that would be limiting. Truth is where you find it as Seth hinted in his own apparent endorsement of the Many Worlds Hypothesis. Seth alleged that every earthly event does indeed play itself out in all probable states; that each quantum particle as well as every human being and historical event does indeed have an infinite series of probabalistic counterparts, and that being infinitely interconnected with these parallel universes, we are as multi dimensional as he is, and the focas of our awareness simply is just not yet tuned in to this fact. This of course, leads to a mind numbing view of the universe. Seth stated, "The rockbed reality is the one in which the perceiver is focased. From that standpoint all others would seem peripheral. Taking that for granted, however, any given reality system will be surrounded by its probability clusters." The bottom line here is that we are all right. I have no illusions of changing your stance Robert. I wanted to present some possibilites for the benefit of other readers. As Whitley Streiber alluded, I have met them and they are us. Or they may well be our own creation -- a horrifying thought! Yet there IS historical precedent for this possibility. In the fall of 1972 A. R. G. Owen and eight of his friends decided to create their own poltergeist. To make sure that they weren't "conjuring" a spirit they carefully designed their own ghost by sitting in a circle and collectively creating a fictional character with a detailed personality and history. With this done they began holding seances to "contact" their manufactured ghost. It took a year but they succeeded in getting "Phillip" to communicate with them with loud raps under the table. They established a code to signal yes and no and proceeded to query "Phillip" over a period of time. The "history" he gave coincided with the manufactured storyline including historical inaccuracies seeded in the biography. "Phillip" was not only moody, he developed affinities for certain members of the group. One of the group members was an acoustic engineer and recorded many of the sessions. He discovered that the raps differed noticeably from ordinary percussionary raps, and though loud were only a third as long as a percussionary rap made by knuckles or feet. "Phillip" later became stronger and mischievous moving the table around the room, dancing it on one leg or even up the wall. Objects would slide off the table, but small gifts to "Phillip" remained on the table even when tipped at precarious angles. Most astounding is the fact that "Phillip" allowed his activities to be filmed. In 1973 the Canadian Broadcasting System filmed a session with "Phillip" that included the table climbing a set of three steps to a platform. The program was broadcast on Toronto television on the program "World of the Unexplained." Conjuring Up Phillip Harper & Row, 1976 There is more than one way to skin a [Schrodinger's] cat and certainly more than one way to view the world. I have no doubt that your armegeddon will occur on schedule complete with the rapture and panick in the streets. But I will not participate, nor will the world that I live in. Enjoy what you have created. dlk/CO Message: #260743, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 18, 1994 11:03:12 PM Subject: #260710-The Lucifer Rebellion From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Don Kircher 76346,3475 Don: Re: Seth Reply = Good for Seth. Re: Truth Reply = There can only be one truth per subject. It is not unusual that the seekers of that truth will cross paths in the endeavor Re: Gods, reponsibility etc Reply = "WE ARE THE ANGELS" Re: Conjuring up Phillip Reply = Mental Masturbation. You think something is happening but all you end up with is a mess. Re: Armageddon of my own creation. Reply = Two Hamburgers, Fries and a Vanilla Shake. In the Armageddon Scenario, humanity is both perpetrator and victim. The original crime, however, was done by someone else. That it continues at man's hands is one of choice and one of responsibility. Thank you so much for giving me credit for your personal choices. I had no idea I had graduated to the Almighty. Instead of making Phillip, wouldn't just be easier and more benficial to whip up a Big Mac? Don: Witty rhetoric aside. I've taken issue with a couple of sysops on this forum for what I call 'book mongering'. You cite your own beliefs thru the words of others. Inverse logic would seem to indicate that you have no beliefs of your own. Have done no research into the universe save that is easily purchased on a book rack. Is this that you would describe as taking responsibility of our universe when it seems obvious you're more than happy to let someone else do the discovery and then attach yourself to it. In Armageddon, you're simply willing to withdraw, again "I didn't do it". Hate to tell you this chum, but we're all in the same boat. You are not unique in this and don't take it to be an insult. The question is, "When do you start quoting Don?". When does Don take responsibility for his unique and special universe? When I come in contact with the book mongers, I can't help but marvel that the bulk of the research for my book came only from the Bible and an Encylopedia. The balance of it being thought and consideration. This would seem highly improbable in the world you live in. Sidebar: Did the fire's hit the Pueblo area? Bob Message: #260861, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jul 19, 1994 1:58:21 AM Subject: #260743-The Lucifer Rebellion From: Don Kircher 76346,3475 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) >Re: Truth >Reply = There can only be one truth per subject. It is not > unusual that > the seekers of that truth will cross paths in the > endeavor > You are correct sir. There is only one truth, and the truth is ONE. But you must remember that truth may have many facets. It is difficult for a three dimensional mind to comprehend a ten dimensional smile. ^L >Re: Conjuring up Phillip >Reply = Mental Masturbation. You think something is happening > but all you end up with is a mess. > You said it Bud, not me. Phillip simply illustrates that it is possible. But it is you that have noids in your bedroom and nordics on your roof. My own reality is one of peaceful slumber at night, hard work in the day, and the challenge to center in joy consistantly moment by moment by being responsive to the small voice within. In the be living moments of my day, my life is very simple. The rhythmic pulse of life cycles within and around me. I live to enjoy and to learn about life in all it's majesty. I make no apology for being curious enough about life to read more than two sets of works. Thank God I am ABLE to read in the fashion that I do. It permits me to meet minds I would never have the opportunity to touch in any other fashion. Minds long dead, or far distant such as yours. Diverse opinons and belief systems can stand shoulder to shoulder in the clear light of analysis. This has enabled my ability to recognize fear mongering when I see it so that I might speak out... > Thank you so much for giving me credit > for your personal choices. I had no idea I had graduated > to the Almighty. You were never any less.. The law is one. My personal research is not really material appropriate to this forum. I live the random walk of joy. To realize that each living being is doing what makes them happy even if it means moaning about how unhappy they are or how unhappy they are GONNA be. To make a conscious decision that I will learn through joy and live joy moment to moment through my day and seek or create joy in others when I might. The process of that evolution is a full time job. To speak out and attempt to inject joy such as I have found into a fear laden atmosphere. There is no need to write a book about it. It is just as effective to live your truth in your daily life blatently and with great zest. If you live in joy there is no room for fear or sorrow. On the date you have projected you may rest assured that I will be easily found doing what pleases me most. I've heard talk of a nasty fire near Durango. The fire hazard is very high. I heard on the radio this morning that the moisture content in the vegetation is lower than what you find in a lumber yard! Pueblo is out on the high prairie east of the Sangre De Cristos. No trees to speak of. No grass fires either Pray for snow!!!!!!!!!!! dlk/CO Message: #260880, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jul 19, 1994 2:23:18 AM Subject: #260743-The Lucifer Rebellion From: Dean Miller 75110,3417 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #260888 (1 reply) Hi Bob, Now, wait a minute. >> Have done no research into the universe save that is easily >> purchased on a book rack. You're claiming your research is based on your personal experiences. That's fine. But a single person has a limited amount of time available for personal experiences and certainly can't personally investigate every UFO sighting, abduction, psychic happening or paranormal experience. The only way is to gather enough information to put together ideas (theories or hypothesis if you wish) on what the overall phenomenon might be. The fastest way to gather this information is through books, journals and messages on fora such as this one. For me, you provide a good, solid set of relevant information. But others do, too. I and others looking into these paranormal (ufo and abductions included as "addition to normal") will decide which facts ann ideas to accept and which to let slide based on _our_ personal life experiences. I can understand why you didn't want to read about what others thought in the ufo field until you had your own experiences nailed down. Now, however, you seem to be looking at what experiences others may have had, and the Urantia book is a start. But, only a start. Your investigation cannot be considered complete until you purposely read and digest reports of experiences and ideas that are completely at odds with your current experiences and ideas. The "Conjuring of Philip" experiment was, IMO, incredible. It was apparently extremely well documented with considerable controls (in the scientific sense). The implications of the experiment are staggering, not only for the UFO and abduction fields but for "normal" life. Since I just heard about this today, I decided to try my own little experiment to find out what happens. Dean Message: #260888, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jul 19, 1994 2:44:10 AM Subject: #260880-The Lucifer Rebellion From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Dean Miller 75110,3417 Hi Dean: I don't think you got my point, or perhaps it wasn't well written. I work a 60 hour work week, that I work at home makes things more agreeable. However, the 'time' involved here is devoted to thought. I sincerely, believe that a reasonable person can develope everything I've bumped into given the desire to find the truth of a thing. I haven't investigated one ufo sighting or abduction or psychic occurence. I have, however, spoken to a lot of people here and found my experiences common. I don't, however, count this as work. I have no objection to searching out data. That's common sense. What I do find objectionable is the mentality that accepts the conclusions of others without giving enough thought to the subject matter to even develope their own opinion. Instead, they go on an endless quest of quoting the thoughts of others. Re: The Urantia. You have an incorrect idea. I am not researching ufos. I did start out to debunk the Bible and found, when the logic was complete, that it was more accurate than not - but that correctness was not the one promoted by the book (Old Testament). I am satisfied, at this point, that my quest to understand the 'truth' is as complete as I personally need it to be. From here, I'm going into a totally different direction. I noted the Urantia as a reference source for a couple of reasons. 1. It holds a substantial amount of truth. 2. It lays a foundation for subject matter that I will be speaking about in the near future. Specifically, Planetary Prince Caligastia, Charlagastia and others. These two people will be writing the history of this planet in the future and will, most likely, do a better job than they did in the past. As for Phillip and conjuring thought forms. If this were of practical use - my ex wife wouldn't be walking the planet. Nor, dare I say, half of the divorced spouses of the world. Booom! Bob Message: #260764, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 18, 1994 11:52:05 PM Subject: Victimization From: PJ 73363,1075 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Hiya Bob. <> Not me. I'd be the happy human hooker of a Communist Alien Troglodyte before I'd die over pride. I'm not remotely afraid to die, I just don't see the point in this case. Like treason, slavery is generally just a matter of dates and perspective anyway.... and there's always a chance to change things as long as one lives. <> Paranoia simply means that you think people are plotting something murky or dangerous related to you personally or a group to which you belong. This seems like a pretty valid description of things to me. (Of course, as my father always says, "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get you." ) <> Nope, not that I know of. Well actually I might eat. Hard to say. I often find that I "have a computer" "there" (or something like one) and sometimes use it specifically for communication, with them or other people, it seems to translate all kinds of stuff. But I don't even encounter the 'doons much at all anymore in consciousness anyway. I'm usually sound asleep I guess. I occasionally get insomnic the last couple months and then start getting the feeling that I'm for some reason maybe *afraid* to go to sleep, but it generally passes... change is always scary, even if it *is* something positive, anyway, and even if it *is* spiritual work, that could be a result. (Shut up. I am NOT rationalizing. .) The last month has been hell on the sleeping habits -- my alarm, a foot from my head, which formerly on the high setting would all but give me a *heart attack* and be off within .08 of a second (wakes all 7 apartment neighbors up, it's ridiculously loud), fails to wake me up at ALL, and I've been late for work half a dozen times in the last 3 weeks. Since I'm an officer and have to open up the building, this is a big deal and really frustrates me... AND my boss. I also went through this thing for about 10 days (last few weeks) where I could have sworn there had to be some kind of "technology" around (tho I blamed it on the bases nearby not aliens ) because when my alarm would go off and I *did* hear it, I couldn't wake up; part of my brain would get conscious, but I didn't know WHO I was, or WHERE I was, or WHAT that sound was, or what to do about it. It certainly didn't occur to me to get up. I'd finally find the sleep button by accident on the "box" (the alarm), and then every 9 minutes it was like an entirely new experience all over again. *Not* the same as just being exhausted. Been sleeping long enough to know what's what. Pretty bizarre not knowing who or where or what you are. (Some deep meditations do this, btw.) Quite a step beyond just trying to get your brain together on a sleepy morning. I finally concluded it was as if consciousness, which normally has some kind of "frequency rise" at a certain rate (which can vary), was simply not coming UP properly as it should, and despite my body and some tiny portion of my brain moving, the rest of me was elsewhere. (Oh man, oh man oh man, I wish I hadn't accidentally said that... didn't think about that before... had that "elsewhere" before too, even consciously... never mind. Maybe if I just go to bed earlier we'll have more time and this will stop. It's so inconvenient!! Glad I thought of this. That might solve it right away.) Oh but hey, that reminds me! You ever had your body "breathe yourself back in?" It's soooo weird, but It's exactly like what you see those trance channels do. It seems so weird that you can be fully conscious and physical and know that "you" are elsewhere, I mean, it seems like if "you" are elsewhere, your conscious mind oughtta be there too! Not that there's much left here to wonder. I've been fortunate to run into a lot of people who I really "relate" to on this subject in the last few months by some rather stretched out coincidences, a couple including this forum, which is nice... I don't know if that's related to anything. I sometimes think "they" (whoever "they" are) have something to do with this, but I could be wrong. You know something, I have long suspected that the "gods" and "entities" that some religions work with may be related to, or even the same entities, as the 'doons I know, or the greys you know. (I "woke up knowing I was going to join" a certain magick order I knew zip about and was even mildly afraid of, I bet THAT one gives you the creeps, hahaha!) I know that in some cases, the Nordics are considered the Annunaki (ref' Sitchin), which I think (I could be wrong) may sometimes be considered the mispronounced "Enochian" entities of Dee&Kelly /Crowley... worked with *deliberately* I assume... I'm new to the order and don't really know anything yet. Just some trivia, rambling thoughts... I could be wrong, I have no idea, it's just occurred to me many times. <> Maybe. Still a matter of perspective methinks. <> Well, I haven't yet received anything relevent enough to pay my CI$ bill. As for the "Nordics" who you think are the Ultimate Bad Guys or whatever, in my experience with beings/people who definitely look just like that, I work "with" them, and often flash between perspectives and I accepted (long ago, waaaayyyy prior to all this "alien" junk) that I *was* one of them, whatever they were. Obviously not completely, I look about as Non-Nordic as a person could without being actively hispanic or something. This doesn't really fit in with your stories of them tho, and I don't "feel" like a bad guy so I don't really understand this... however, it *does* fit in with being a "spiritual experience" for me. << By your own admission, you alter disagreeable substantive material into a form more digestible...The real definition of this is called 'avoidance'... It follows that your perceptions are not reliable and the only person suffering from it - is you.>> In NLP it's called "reframing." As for being subjective and "twisting the facts to support how you want to feel," that's exactly what it is. So what? Bob, sometimes you remind me of these screamin' liberal man-hating women who want to go on and on and on about how if a woman was ever raped she's such a victim and so in need of a way to defend herself from those Evil Nasty Men and so on... when from my view, it's like, get over it already, get a life! Of course as a hypnotist that's pretty much predictable of me, I realize. I made a living helping people deal with traumas, both real and "imaginary," past and present, in a positive way. I've restructured my feelings about my own life according to how I want my end personality to result, not "how it was," from altering my feelings about a perfectly horrific childhood to dealing with my own former traumas. Life is not what happens to you, it's what you make it, and I don't think that's a bad thing, I think it's a GREAT thing. If this is denial - and from your view it is, I realize - I'm a happy idiot. So what. I don't see, at this point, any difference between you and me and our sometimes similar experiences, except that you seem to live your life like a sci-fi/adventure movie with you as The Lone Good Guy Saving Humanity and I live my life like a metaphysical bible story... ok, so I'm being hard on BOTH of us ... but really, what's the end result difference? You've been permanently injured, you say, and you live in this "fight" mode against these "bad" guys. I feel warm and snuggly about it and live in this "special spiritual work" mode with these "other entities." The only real difference between us seems to be that *I'm* having fun and you're not. (Whether I only *think* I am having fun is irrelevant of course! - that's like "thinking you're happy." If you think you are, you are.) < Aw I hate it when you say this because you have no more logical basis than I do. The things I experience seem quite "real" to me, if occasionally like some other dimension - those budweiser commercials where the camera is tilted sort of sideways reminds me of that vaguely stoned feeling - and I'm sure your experiences are real as well. As for physical results, I've had some, I've interpreted them, and been fine with them. You've had some, you've interpreted them, and been miserable about them. Again, I don't see that either of us has more or less "evidence" or "logical basis" about the subject; only that we have mutually incompatible interpretations of "what it means." Gosh Bob, you live so close, and offer slimy *warm* hands and everything, hahaha! You crack me up. I don't think the 'doons would want me dating you. Besides, you'd have to sleep in my seriously "unprotected" (no 200' extension cords around MY princess canopy! ) bed, it's like a religion thing, it would just never work. PJ Message: #260830, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jul 19, 1994 12:55:25 AM Subject: Victimization From: westbrook 71705,262 To: PJ 73363,1075 (received) PJ <> Not me. I'd be the happy human hooker of a Communist Alien Troglodyte before I'd die over pride. >My pride is a product of my freedom. No freedom - no pride - no life. I flunked groveling 101.< <> Nor am I. I have to reason to be afraid of them. This is particularly valid as I'm out of reach. <> >Nope, not that I know of. < So you give, they take. Definitely a one sided deal. I'm getting more and more interested in you personally. I've never had a doormat. Want to apply for the position? >The last month has been hell on the sleeping habits< Your mouth says no, no, no - but you body says yes, yes, yes. The basic contradiction in your behavior here is that while you consistently say NO it ain't so Joe, you immediately follow by sharing items that are problimatical to you. So, No it ain't so - but tell me more - seems applicable here. > I mean, it seems like if "you" are elsewhere, your conscious mind oughtta be there too! Not that there's much left here to wonder. < Lucid Dreaming. > (I "woke up knowing I was going to join" a certain magick order I knew zip about and was even mildly afraid of, I bet THAT one gives you the creeps, hahaha!)< Magic, and the occult are crutches used to trick the subconscious into directed activity. Doesn't freak me at all. If you'd have read my book, I admit some knowledge of the subject. >I know that in some cases, the Nordics are considered the Annunaki (ref' Sitchin)< The Nordics are known by many names. The game is still the same. <> >Well, I haven't yet received anything relevent enough to pay my CI$ bill. < Well, they don't sound like their of much use AND you aren't particularly demanding. Where have you been all my life? Wanna get married? I take out the trash and know how to fix things >I accepted (long ago, waaaayyyy prior to all this "alien" junk) that I *was* one of them< The half Nordics I've run into have all been blonde. However, this doesn't mean that other types are out there. > You've been permanently injured, you say, and you live in this "fight" mode against these "bad" guys. < Abuse injures the victim and the abuser and it is always permanent. < >Aw I hate it when you say this because you have no more logical basis than I do. < Still haven't read the book have you. Had you, you'd feel a little silly about 'no logical basis'. I can smother you in logic. Somehow, I don't think it would be appreciated. > I don't think the 'doons would want me dating you. < Do the doons live in Toontown? You're right they wouldn't like AND I'm not inclined to share. As for slumber parties - SUPRISE! - I've juryrigged a portable traveling gig. hehehehehehe. They bagged me out of the 5th floor of the Vegas Hilton a couple of weeks ago. It won't happen again. Have cage - will travel. I might even be able to get it to double as a marital aid. Tell me, have you heard the pitter patter of little hybrids during your experiences? Re: Feminazi's. R you deliberately trying to be offensive. Sorry, I'm not part of the NOW crowd and do not subscribe to the theory that only the constitpated, permanently PMS'd females of the world are qualified to run my universe. However, I am wearing my steal plated John Wayne Bobbit jock proctector in case I perchance to run into one of them. We can count them out of the Nordic ranks, there wouldn't be any male genitals to harvest. Bob Message: #260875, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jul 19, 1994 2:19:25 AM Subject: The Lucifer Rebellion From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Don Kircher 76346,3475 >Reply = Mental Masturbation. You think something is happening > but all you end up with is a mess. > Phillip simply illustrates that it is possible. I'd disagree on this. Take Phillip times 10,000 abductee reports and I've find it easier to attach some logic. Phillip and I will have to wait for a future life time. >My own reality is one of peaceful slumber at night, hard work in the day< How nice for you. Isn't it nice you aren't on the Nordic menu. As for me, I sleep well too - now. An exercise in responsibility - I did something about it. >This has enabled my ability to recognize fear mongering when I see it < Don, I am not fear mongering. I am solution mongering. There is no useful purpose in promoting fear. I do, however, see great benefit in the solution. It's fortunate, you don't need the fix. > Thank you so much for giving me credit > for your personal choices. I had no idea I had graduated > to the Almighty. Don, your writings have the strong sugary overtones of a devout 'something' and if this works for you - far out! It is not, however, my particular cup of tea. Bob Message: #261240, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jul 19, 1994 6:37:29 PM Subject: #260229-Victimization From: *Xena* 72230,2401 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #261250 (1 reply) Bob, >>I've often wonder just how many people out there thought me nuts. You're no more nuts and no more sane than anyone else out here, and you're certainly entitled to your beliefs. I just don't believe any of it applies to me, as I doubt I will be in either of the groups that survive all the nasty weather and quakes and plagues. I have my part to do in whatever happens, your version or someone else's. I think my part happens right down here at Ground Zero on the San Andreas. That's just how things are. Cindy Message: #261250, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jul 19, 1994 6:52:17 PM Subject: #261240-Victimization From: westbrook 71705,262 To: *Xena* 72230,2401 Cindy: I'm sitting on top of the Northridge variant of ground zero, "What a frenzied moment that was " Re: Nuts I've oft wondered how many thought me nuts, however, I've never cared enough to let it stop me one way or another. I have true dedication to maintaining the psychosis. Re: Versions of Armageddon. Why not write your own. Hey, it works for me. Bob Message: #261251, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jul 19, 1994 7:10:22 PM Subject: #260875-The Lucifer Rebellion From: Don Kircher 76346,3475 To: westbrook 71705,262 Okay Robert, let's set "Phillip" aside for now. Another even less palitable possibility is referenced by Jaques Vallee in his book "Dimensions" I do not have the book at my fingertips and I will not got to the trouble to go get it since you abhor quotations so badly. The section I am referencing is "The World according to Kirk Allen" and is also linked by inference to everything Billy Meir ever wrote. I'm sure others on this forum have read it and will chime in. In summary; Kirk Allen was a psychiatric subject who created an imaginary world of incredible consistancy and detail. The therapist was so stunned by the depth and texture of this creation that he wrote a paper detailing the theraputic course for submission to professional journals. That is how Vallee became aware of the case. What I am doing here is presenting a range of possibilities. A differential diagnostic list if you will. You strike me as a "show me I'm from Missouri" kind of a guy and this is a nuts and bolts interpretation of the abduction phenomena which CANNOT be overlooked by the objective observer. Also included on the list is Westbrook is right so don't get your feathers ruffeled But both the Allen option and the Westbrook option are ranking rather low at this point. (Whoops! that might be/most likely is Vallee's "Revelations"...brain farts) btw just try to go to the moon or get through med school without reading and citing "the stacks" as they are called. dlk/CO Message: #261382, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Tue, Jul 19, 1994 10:52:07 PM Subject: #261251-The Lucifer Rebellion From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Don Kircher 76346,3475 Don: At the risk of being tediously redundant, I do not object to reading. I object to people taking the thoughts of others INSTEAD OF generating their OWN thoughts. It's been my experience that the insistant quoter frequently does this. Listen, if you can read a book you can learn most anything. No one values a book more than I. However, taking someone else's thought and going no where with it, is an empty journey. Better to use it as inspiration and generate your own new ground as an explorer. The 'quoter' will take the thoughts of one as impetus to quote another and another an another without ever taking the time to do his own exploration. This point isn't all that subtle. As for Phillip and Vallee's 'brain farts'. I'm aware of thought forms. They aren't new but usually reserved for those who practice magic. I've never given them much consideration as they are only reflections of someone else's will. Even when they are sufficiently sentient to operate on their own, they are still only reflections. Ergo, not worth messing with (in my humble opinion). Bob Message: #261663, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Jul 20, 1994 2:21:16 PM Subject: #260888-The Lucifer Rebellion From: Dean Miller 75110,3417 To: westbrook 71705,262 Hi Bob, >> I sincerely, believe that a reasonable person can develope >> everything I've bumped into given the desire to find the truth of >> a thing. The problem I have is that I'm not an abductee, nor have I ever seen anything more than sum funny lights way up in the sky (to the best of my conscious knowledge). So I have to rely on reports made by others. I work at home too, but I'm not an investigator with lots of people contact like you are. I mostly contact my computer and a few people in the businesses I consult for. Dean Message: #261667, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Jul 20, 1994 2:21:03 PM Subject: #261382-The Lucifer Rebellion From: Dean Miller 75110,3417 To: westbrook 71705,262 Hi Bob, >> I'm aware of thought forms. They aren't new but usually reserved for >> those who practice magic. I've never given them much consideration >> as they are only reflections of someone else's will. Even when >> they are sufficiently sentient to operate on their own, they are >> still only reflections. But what if _everyone_ normally creates thought forms in the normal course of their existence. I never really connected the "positive thinking" sales or goal setting seminars with magick, but they do seem connected. IOW, whatever we think about always generates a thought form that lasts at least as long as that thought. If we think about something longer, clearer and in more detail, maybe the thought form stays around a little while after we stop thinking it. Could it be that if enough people had basically the same thought(s) that the thought forms might begin to get a life of their own? Could an individual be trained to control his thoughts in such a way as to generate persistent thought forms on their own? And then, could these thought forms actually intercede in our three dimensional universe as independent beings? Just producing some temporary thought forms. Dean Message: #261715, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Jul 20, 1994 3:31:21 PM Subject: #261663-The Lucifer Rebellion From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Dean Miller 75110,3417 Dean: You don't have to be an abductee to be interested in searching out the truth of a subject. It's coincidental that it inspired me to look - no more. Bob Message: #261716, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Jul 20, 1994 3:31:25 PM Subject: #261667-The Lucifer Rebellion From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Dean Miller 75110,3417 Dean: I will agree with you about the creation of momentary thought forms. However, the practicalities of the human mind are such that we typically don't generate sufficient power to make them of any long duration. When they do hang around for a while, it is usually the byproduct of extreme and intense emotion - usually generated from the darkside of our natures. If it were possible to flippantly create thought forms, most of the divorced people in the world would be dead from the hostility being directed at them during the proceedings. The inability to control our thoughts and emotions is the reason, I believe, we are limited to only 10% usage of our brains. Otherwise, we'd be wrecking havoc on the universe. Bob Message: #261714, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Jul 20, 1994 3:31:19 PM Subject: The Lucifer Rebellion From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Dean Miller 75110,3417 >Maybe there are going to be big wars or cataclysms in the near future and humans are using these experiences to achieve greater adaptability to future conditions.< Dean: In my book I cited examples of disasters that produce subconscious awareness in many unrelated people over great distances. I also proposed that the collective subconscious of man, vaguely aware of the upcoming calamities, was tuning up and beginning to connect with itself. Essentially, what you've said here. Bob Message: #261770, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Jul 20, 1994 5:24:00 PM Subject: #261716-The Lucifer Rebellion From: Don Kircher 76346,3475 To: westbrook 71705,262 While and individual might not generate the "ommph" to get a thought form going, perhaps the mass psyche or "oversoul" of man at large might be another matter entirely. This raises some questions. Assuming that the visitors were "thought forms" generated by a larger body of consciousness (the mind of man, just for instance. Or perhaps the earth mind at large [Gaia principle]) Why? Another question I have not seen posed to you Robert.. Why you? Why Angelfish? Is there anything in your backround that primed you for what has happened? [Please note that I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that it did really happen]. Since "they" also engage in OBE activity, is this event limited to "this lifetime" or are you involved in an ongoing multi lifetime training program of some sort. dlk/co Message: #261806, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Jul 20, 1994 6:12:10 PM Subject: The Lucifer Rebellion From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Don Kircher 76346,3475 (received) Don > Assuming that the visitors were "thought forms" generated by a larger body of consciousness (the mind of man, just for instance. Or perhaps the earth mind at large [Gaia principle]) Why?< I discount the 'thought form' theory. The historical evidence indicates this has been around for thousands of years. Is it possible for prehistoric man to conceive of a ufo? Not likely, he was preoccupied with fire. Or even in the time of Moses? No, even then we have only one solid similarity - 'they came from the skies'. Further, these thought forms were solid (angels) and had physical substance. The evidence does not support thought forms as the ufo perpetrators. One must remember that the form we are talking about is 4 dimensional - not three. Now you will argue that Phillip could move objects. When he lands a ufo in front of witnesses - then you've got a point. Further, In my own case, the ufo thought form as made out of hard metal had stairs, different levels and was quite physical. > Another question I have not seen posed to you Robert.. Why you? Why Angelfish? Is there anything in your backround that primed you for what has happened? < Yes, however, I'm not prepared to deliver up the answer at this time. >[Please note that I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that it did really happen].< There's no need to give me the benefit of any doubt. My skin isn't so thin that I can't stand in the light of day on my own. >Since "they" also engage in OBE activity, is this event limited to "this lifetime" or are you involved in an ongoing multi lifetime training program of some sort.< You don't note which 'they' you are talking about. Never the less, the universe's program of evolved personality is multi life time. Every human on earth is involved in that process AND a few non humans as well. Bob dlk/co Message: #261974, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Jul 20, 1994 11:44:04 PM Subject: #261250-Victimization From: *Xena* 72230,2401 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Bob, >>Re: Versions of Armageddon. >>Why not write your own. Hey, it works for me. This assumes I believe Armageddon will happen in my current timeline. I'm not so sure it will. I'm thinking about creating a reality with a pool in a very private backyard and room enough to have all the stray cats that keep showing up at my door. Cindy Message: #262040, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jul 21, 1994 2:34:19 AM Subject: #261714-The Lucifer Rebellion From: Dean Miller 75110,3417 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #262042 (1 reply) Hi Bob, >> In my book I cited examples of disasters that produce subconscious >> awareness in many unrelated people over great distances. I also >> proposed that the collective subconscious of man, vaguely aware of >> the upcoming calamities, was tuning up and beginning to connect >> with itself. Essentially, what you've said here. Could be I was using you as the reference. Many times I pick up ideas from others and then combine them with the rest of my experience. Sometimes the result is a new idea but mostly it's just a rephrasing of someone else. Dean Message: #262042, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jul 21, 1994 3:12:14 AM Subject: #262040-The Lucifer Rebellion From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Dean Miller 75110,3417 Dean: That is a step on the road to discovery. Bob Message: #262573, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jul 22, 1994 1:14:15 AM Subject: #262078-Believe Westbrook?????? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Ian Dubin 100314,467 (received) Reply: #262660 (1 reply) Ian: In answer to your question about what to believe, I have this answer. 1. Follow your own intellect and instincts. 2. Trust what makes sense to you. Your confusion is one of the reasons I don't read ufo books. I didn't want to cloud 'my personal' vision with other's ideas. In fact, I just got done discussing this with Don Kirsch who (I suspect) felt I was a micron away from being a book burner. I'd like to set something straight. I recently came to understand that most view me as a hell and brimstone writer. It was never my intent to promote a doomsday image. My book was started while I was suspicious be still really didn't know. I am a cynic and have a good eye for bulls... when I see it (Wanna hire me OJ?). As I progressed thru the Bible, the logic related to AND continued having interactive experiences with the bad guys, the cynicism grew to an almost rabid hatred up UNTIL I managed to create a defense - The Cage. Once I had them off my backside, I was able to gain a little perspective on the deal. When I'm finally getting comfortable with this - in walk the Noshaimus and the spiritual (almost) angle to the deal. And so it goes. For the last several months, I've been the receipient of some new insight - a new piece of the puzzle I didn't have or some derivitive logic that expanded the vista to some degree. However, up until the entry of the Noshaimus, this has all been a victim's tale. As I flunked groveling 101, it's not one I found agreeable. The Noshaimus, however, filled a missing piece to the logic. Specifically, while the so called miracles of the old testament had a technological footprint associated with them, the miracles of Jesus did not. It was difficult for me to put a handle of Nordic on Joshua Ben Joseph - so I settled for "At this point, I do not know". I have since discovered he was not a Nordic but Noshaimus. This brings into focus the 'Good Guys' aspect of the scenario and one that also puts a positive light on things. During the course of my investigations, I hit several milestones. 1. "I must be crazy - this can't be true". I went so far as to have my sanity tested professionally. 2. "Fear". The more I dug, and the closer I got - I hit walls of fear in varying degrees surpassing terror. 3. "Freedom" - release. I am no longer being victimized as an abductee and I've cleared out all the garbage that was shoveled between my ears from all the years that I was an abductee. 4. "Awakening". An awareness of, and contact with, the Noshaimus. If you want to put this into it's simpliest understandable form, Inactivity with Angels. 5. What's next? (Overlay Mission Impossible Music Here) I suspect I have a task to perform. One that I have felt would be mine all my life. My personal appointment with destiny. A VERY POSITIVE AND UPLIFTING MOMENT IN TIME. It's easy to focus only on the negative (look what we have for a President). However, REmember, in the Armageddon Scenario, those taken in the Rapture are not being harvested. At one time I thought this was so but modified my view with the entry of the Noshaimus. They are being save, moved, evolved or graduated to the next level. Those who remain are going to be shoveling some heavy manure. In my book, I pointed that Africa would be the hardest hit of the continents - and so it is beginning. And yet, they did it to themselves. Whether the Nordics manipulated the situation or not is academic. The bottom line is - our cooperation in our own destruction is necessary. The solution is simple - Don't do it. I'm reminded of the religious definitions of Sh*t Happens For Protestants - Let this sh*t happen to someone else. For Catholic - If sh*t happens, you deserved it. For Hindus - This sh*t has happened before. For Jews - Why does this sh*t always happen to us. And Westbrook's 1994 Collorary. This sh*t doesn't have to happen to me. Bob Message: #262660, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jul 22, 1994 6:02:16 AM Subject: #262573-Believe Westbrook?????? From: Ian Dubin 100314,467 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Bob Thank you, I need some time to digest your message. I may not agree with you but you sure as S*** have a great style to put it across. Ian Dubin Message: #262926, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jul 22, 1994 5:59:27 PM Subject: #262573-Believe Westbrook?????? From: Don Kircher 76346,3475 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Robert There is a theme which seems to fit the story you tell. I tend to lean in this direction but do not fully understand the implications. It has to do with the anchoring of frequencies here on the earth so that they may be available for others to tune into. We as act as anchors by simply holding a concept ( such as the peaceful resolution of conflict ) within our belief matrix as a possibility providing an alternative to tried and true methods. This is contrary to the desires of those who control, promote, and delight in the generation of fear, despair, and sorrow. An anchor is not traceable, but the frequency anchored IS. If an anchor for an undesireable frequency were to be found out action would be taken to convert it or neutralize it. This is a theme which appears again and again across a wide spectrum of works. Tesla is offered as an example of one who was found out and neutralized. It has also been stated that there are ageless ones who are here in physical form who do nothing but visualize ideals for the benefit of the rest of us. dlk Message: #263052, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jul 22, 1994 11:48:24 PM Subject: #260888-The Lucifer Rebellion From: Michael Borger 71736,3374 To: westbrook 71705,262 Do you have any information on who the author or authors are of The Urantia Book? I know it says "various clestial personalities" and losts them section by section, but is there any link between these sources and real live people with an address? I am curious, that's all. I have a copy of The Urantia Book, and it makes very positive and interesting reading, but I have this nagging need to know "where did this stuff REALLY come from?" Along with these questions, what is your personal system for determining the validity or truth of something like The Urantia Book? I have always been stumped on that one. Regards... Mike Borger Message: #263315, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Jul 23, 1994 3:10:20 PM Subject: #262926-Believe Westbrook?????? From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Don Kircher 76346,3475 Don: I like my version of reality if for no other reason it's simple and not convolulted by extraneous thought. Essentially you're saying we make our own reality AND to degree that is true. Logically, however, it presupposes that we are number one on the food chain AND are the absolute masters of our destiny. If, on the other hand, we find ourselves one notch down on the chain and subject to the whim of another party, the logic follows that we are the masters of our destinies to the limit permitted by the imposed structure. As an example. In my book, I noted that for a variety of reasons, Africa would be hardest hit by Armageddon. I pointed to a historical foundation of material indicating the many of the manmade disasters (war) was the product of covert manipulations (presumably Nordic) for the purpose of generating the products they desired (corpses). I also noted a historical periodicity in the 'great' disasters and plagues - 700 years and point out that (guess what boys and girls ) we are near the 700 year marker. Your concept of anchoring is valid ONLY IF we are the dominant force in the food chain. The evidence is massive towards the opposite conclusion. EVEN SO, we are the final arbiters of whether or not we CHOOSE to allow ourselves to be the objects of these manipulations and whether or not we will go along. We don't have to do it. Back on the other side of the scale we have a plantary history of leaders and individuals falling prey to the seven deadly sins with no indicator that human nature is suddenly going to change. MY MAJOR POINT IS..... We can change ourselves individually and the rewards for doing so will present themselves. We are not judged as a species, or by form of government, nor by race or religion. Judgement is personal and rendered per individual and based upon the implimentation of our personal free wills. This is the message of the Nohsaimus (one of them anyway). There are no deep dark secrets here. Bob Message: #263516, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Jul 23, 1994 10:14:15 PM Subject: #263052-The Lucifer Rebellion From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Michael Borger 71736,3374 Mike: I too looked thru the book for this info but didn't care enough to follow it up. They have a phone number and fax line, why don't you contact them and ask. Better from the horse's mouth than the other end. I've always take 'channeled' info with a BIG GRAIN OF SALT and still do. I can't speak to the accuracy of other's encounters. Of my own (and this is new to me), I can say that the Nohsaimus are in nearly constant contact with me and I am in contact (through abductees other than myself) with Nordics. Preparations are being made for a face to face meeting between Nohsaimus representatives (human) and the Nordics. Bob Message: #263554, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Jul 23, 1994 11:54:10 PM Subject: #263516-The Lucifer Rebellion From: Michael Borger 71736,3374 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #263576 (2 replies) The Urantia material reads well, but as you alluded to in your note, how do you decide what is valid and what is bogus? Regards... Mike Borger Message: #263613, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 24, 1994 2:16:05 AM Subject: #263554-The Lucifer Rebellion From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Michael Borger 71736,3374 Mike: I have a more interesting question. If you have a full copy of my book, how is it I was able to deduce the the structure of things AND many of the specifics (as it is laid out in Urantia) without ever having seen the book? The only logic answer is that any seeker of truth who follow's its logical trail will cross paths with those things that also lay on that path. The Urantia Book lays right in the middle of that road. There is no other logical explanation for such a profound coincidence. Bob Message: #5437, S/3 Abductions Date: Sun, Jul 24, 1994 4:36:26 AM Subject: various From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: sysop Gentlemen: A couple of pieces of information you may find useful. 1. I developed a simple (although unsightly) device that prevents bedroom abductions. It has been tested and works. 2. In a recent trip to Colorado (ufo related), I discovered two sets of bones. One, I feel belongs to an animal - possibly a mountain lion. The other bone is unique and unusual. It is so perfectly made as to appear as if it were machined. I've sent it out for analysis. My suspicion is it belongs to a Gray. Message: #5438, S/3 Abductions Date: Sun, Jul 24, 1994 5:03:07 AM Subject: abduction prevention From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: all Folks: I've uploaded a file called 'sheild.txt'. I describes a chain of events that that eventually led to the creation of a simple device that prevents bedroom abductions. It has been tested and, so far, scores a 100% success rate. For most of my life, I've been an abductee, no more. Those wishing to end this nightmare for themselves have only to invest about 50 bucks in materials and a couple of hours of elbow grease. Bob Westbrook Message: #5439, S/3 Abductions Date: Sun, Jul 24, 1994 6:30:08 AM Subject: LA Blasted Dream From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Robert Travell 74633,1426 Robert: I too had a series of dreams about LA being nuked. The first was in 1988. In it, I was in my car - leaving my house to go to work. I saw a flash of light coming from downtown LA and my engine quit. Then, a few points off to the right of the first blast, I saw a second. I realized we were being nuked and ran back to my house so I could at least die with my family. In the second, I saw the blast crater. In the third, I saw a copy of the Los Angeles Times. I was reduce to being only 4 pages big. I was living in the San Bernardino mountains in the dream and riding a motorcycle. I gave up bikes a long time ago as I wasn't suicidal. In the fourth, I saw the whole bombing event and 'knew' they were Chinese missiles. I'm not the only one who has had this one. Several people have mentioned to me they've seen portions of LA blasted or burning. Whaddya think, Rodney King party #2 or will we have the OJ Fiesta? Bob Message: #5440, S/3 Abductions Date: Sun, Jul 24, 1994 6:30:01 AM Subject: Fear From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Lauren Rose 76711,110 Lauren: I read your post on fear. I've been writing about this for some time. Related to ufo abductions - there is a progression involved in the conquest of fear. Each stage is more terrifying than the first until finally you break free. In my own case, I began to suspect abductions. Waking up naked when I'd gone to be with clothing on, cuts and scratches I didn't have when I had gone to bed. Dreams of fighting and then waking up dinged up. When I started thinking back into my life, I remembered that I had actually run into two Nordics while hiking in the mountains behind L.A., had seen the ship - been taken into it - and had the standard procedures performed on my genitals. Once I remembered the beginnings of the encounter, I sought out a ufo hypnotist and started putting the pieces together. The first fear you run into - is going to sleep. Is the boogey man going to get you. For months, I questioned my own sanity to the point, I had myself tested. I came back as normal. Then I started researching, and thinking and thinking and thinking. The closer I got to understanding what was going to - the more unexplained fear was generated. As I am not by nature a fearful person, I concluded that this reaction had been programmed into me during the abductions. "Don't look - Don't tell - Or Else.........." Fear is the tool left to enforce the abductive edicts. People deal with fear differently. Avoidance would seem to be the dominant reaction. I'm wierd in this regard. The more scared I get, the more aggressive I come out. I refuse to be intimidated and I demand that I am in control of my life. Having constructed 'The Shield', I no longer am an abductee. However, something unique and wonderful came out of my emancipation from the Nordics and Grays. An awakening - not of a religious genre - but an awareness of things I had not previously noticed. I also came into contact with people who were dealing with the same issues. One such lady - after constructing her version of my cage - became highly psychic. So much so, that I decided to check her out. She sent me to Colorado (3 weeks ago). She described the place I was going, landmarks etc and did it accurately. There, I discovered two different sents of bones. One obviously belongs to an animal, the other appears to have been manufactured artificially even though it is covered in a bone like substance. It appears to be the shin bone. If so, the critter this came off of stood 3 to 4 feet tall. My guess for the other one is a mountain lion. It might be that a Gray was dinner for a mountain lion and the lion died immediately afterwards alluding to a toxic nature in the Gray. I've sent the bones out for testing. Nature, as a rule, does not manufacture bones with drill holes in them either nor are the connectors for the feet perfectly circular. While I'm not an md, common sense says there's something interesting here. Back to fear. I too have seen two of my friends beaten for information. The Nordics are sociopathic - but they have some serious limitations in what they can and can't do. Be this as it may - once you eliminate the possibility of bedroom abduction, their only other alternative is to risk injury at your hands in an outside encounter. This, the seem very disinclined to do. They are cowards hiding behind their technology. Strip them of it, and they're as vulnerable as we are AND they are exceptionally paranoid. Furthermore, as they appear as human as we do, they easily walk among us furthering their interests in our genetic goodies. It's struck me as odd that no one has considered they might be inclined to operate in the funeral industries - specifically crematoriums. Here they can snip and clip all they want and the evidence gets burned afterwards. As long as you don't care if your dna specimens come from a living or dead body - you're in pretty good shape. I consider it no small irony that such an operation exists within a couple of miles of my 1963 daylight abduction. It is even more curious that the operator of this facility is a six foot perfectly blonde male about 28 years old and he has to other perfectly blonde brothers with him. I've seen one of them and learned of the other two when I queried the Mexican who operates the ovens. Of the one I saw, It was instant hatred the moment we made eye contact - and it was mutual. We made each other. Two months ago, I set out three traps that would record the presence of any strong magnetic anomoly. One up in the mountain where I felt the ship would make it's approach towards the crematoria/graveyard. I put two down near the graveyard, one on the north side, one on the south. The mountain trap did not spring, however, the other two did. Indicating they are no longer landing in the mountain as they did in 1963 when I was picked up, but are actually landing in the graveyard. Further, based upon the conditions of the traps, I'd say they land on the south side of the area. Incidentally, this graveyard is surrounded by a tall wall. My next step is to define the time periods by putting the traps back out and attempting to deduce the pick up schedule. Incidentally, the oldest marker in the graveyard is 1896. From 1896 until 1942, the property was owned by one individual. Then it changed hands into a corporate vehicle until 1993. The documents on it show it listed not as a cemetery but a 'retail speciality store'. (they have a sense of humor) and there is a second ficitious business name involved as well as a second business location. Incidentally, I am a professional private investigator and the resources for these background queries are at my fingertips. The problem with the professional ufo types is that they're always looking for this ships when its obvious our technology isn't going to catch them. We need to bag the buggers on the ground and away from their toys and they leave mundane trails as well. Once you've seen a Nordic, you'd be able to make him out of a crowd of a 100 identical blondes. Incidentally, they are not allowed to kill us. Accidents happen once in a while, however, the historical evidence indicates they may not directly murder one of us. They do, however, manipulate us into killing ourselves. I picked up the historical trail at 6000 B.C. In that time, little has changed. Once I realized this limitation - fear was a thing of the past. Bob Message: #263733, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 24, 1994 10:53:17 AM Subject: Dead Artists Come Alive From: Shannon + Sara Smith 73521,3045 To: westbrook 71705,262 Reply: #263744 (1 reply) [from Shannon] >>I've always taken 'channeled' info with a BIG GRAIN OF SALT and still do.<< Me too, until I saw the video "UFO's and Channeling" (1989). It starts out with the late Telly Savalas (aka TV's Kojak) talking about Meier's and other UFO photos, including garbagecanlid-ball bearing types and things that look to me like lens reflections of the sun. NOT impressed - yet! Then it has a couple of people channeling in odd accents on video, and I'm thinking, OK, maybe, maybe not, (all the channelers gave the same message pretty much: now is the time to find the cosmic consciousness within you) and I'm thinking "Riiiiight." Then comes the absolutely most amazing video I've ever seen in this lifetime, without qualification whatsoever: This younger fellow goes into a trance in front of a large drawing tablet with a big pile of colored chalk on the table. While shaking his head and body rather violently, his eyes closed, most of the time turning his head over his shoulder, his arms shaking and hands moving slightly and in a rythym, he grabs a piece of chalk, holds it lengthwise against the paper, and starts to draw PERFECT masterpiece after masterpiece, signing each with a different Old Master's signature (I don't know if these signatures or styles matched; I'm not into art much) including da Vinci, Renoir, Picasso, etc. OK I'm thinking, now he could have an impression hidden under the sheet. But then it shows him finish one and do a totally different artist and style on the sheet directly underneath. Then he does TWO SEPARATE drawings at the same time by two different artists, one with each hand, on the same paper. He also does a perfect portrait of a woman COMPLETELY UPSIDE DOWN IN A COUPLE OF MINUTES! As if that's not enough, then they give him acrylic paints and stretched canvas and he starts doing fantastically accurate paintings, full of completely natural color selections, WITH HIS FINGERS AND HANDS, USING ONE HAND AS A PALLETTE. Then he does complete paintings with BOTH FEET, USING HIS TOES AS BRUSHES! I kid you not, these are true works of art, done in mere minutes, fully proportioned human figures and faces, full of expression, shaded perfectly, signed in each artist's style as well, so it says. You should see the Van Gogh he whips out in a mere 3-4 minutes, even pounding the paint with his knuckles. Talk about a heavy style; the person holding one of the paintings gets her hand in the way and gets it painted, slapped and manipulated as the artist's personality and impatience comes out. The video says the entities previously came to a decision to do this as a group thing for fun. The only other possible explanation other than dead artist ghosts I can think of would be some fantastically advanced aliens somewhere playing a practical joke. But then, they would have to be excellent artists where they're from, too. WARNING: Don't anybody see this video if you want to hold on to a cozy belief system. It has flabbergasted me, for want of a better term. There are other messages of interest from the voice channelers, but they don't have the physical evidence like The Artist. On UFO's and Time: One 'entity' says there are three kinds of craft visiting us. One is made of light, one is made of hardware, and there is a third type that comes from our past and our future. Time there is "broken, there is no time." Shannon PS The Artist usually does all this with the lights out; they only used them to take the video. Also, when changing colors and signing works, he hangs his head over the chalkpile or signature area of the work, so I can't tell if the eyes are needed, even if still closed. He also says he is having running conversations with the master artist while this is going on, and learns fascinating things in this way. He allows them to access his motor control at the base of his brainstem in his neck area. Message: #5457, S/3 Abductions Date: Sun, Jul 24, 1994 10:44:14 AM Subject: #5437-various From: Paul Grand [Wizop] 76360,2721 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 Bob, It sounds like you should get in contact with the show's Researchers... You should address this type of information to "Encounters Staff" at 74663,3011. In the meanwhile, I have forwarded your message to them. Keep us informed! Best regards, Paul Grand Associate Producer/Sysop Message: #263757, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 24, 1994 11:53:24 AM Subject: #263613-The Lucifer Rebellion From: Don Kircher 76346,3475 To: westbrook 71705,262 Robert, see my message to Shannon on channeling/tuning a belief matrix. If you are open to the idea, and your tuning has randomly found the channel, than you "get" the information. I say random because most of us are not able to "consciously" tune the dial. There is a law of sorts which describes the phenomena of synchronicity (which is what you are talking about when you speak of seekers crossing paths with truth). Like attracts Like/Birds of a feather. But the interest most be there. Interst "sensitises" your awareness to trap such intersections with the "target" information obviously. If the missing link (that AHAA! part of the puzzle) in the cure for cancer were to arrive in my daughters mind -- it would pass right on through unnoticed in favor of more important things like "Home Improvements" on the tube. To rephrase it in the terms of sports and success; "Luck" is when preparation meets opportunity. Message: #263945, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 24, 1994 5:17:12 PM Subject: #263757-The Lucifer Rebellion From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Don Kircher 76346,3475 Don: I don't agree with the 'law of synchronicity. As my counterpart is ahead of me in this - she says that to communicate with these people, you must first learn to listen. Therefore, you go into the theta zone and wait for them to contact you. Your presence there attracts immediate attention. After you've learned to hear, then you can learn to talk. Actually, the process is nearly the same as with a newborn. First they hear and later learn to formulate words. I agree that interest attracts but feel it is more than that too. I suspect you have to be of a genre an angel would WANT to associate with you. I am far from a goody goody but am amazed at the acceptance I have received. Bob Message: #263903, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 24, 1994 4:36:29 PM Subject: #263613-The Lucifer Rebellion From: Michael Borger 71736,3374 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) That is really something, and I must say there HAS to be something to it when you have those kind of experiences. I will look into the Urantia book some more and perhaps we can talk more. Thanks for your reply. Regards... Mike Borger Message: #263944, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 24, 1994 5:17:09 PM Subject: #263744-Dead Artists Come Alive From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Don Kircher 76346,3475 Don: At last we find something we agree on although I have a slightly different perspective on it. I do believe this is generic and trust me, If I can do it ANYONE CAN. I have always failed at meditation and relaxation. It's not my 'gift' that this as come to me easily. Now, that I am having some success with it - tells me that others can. I'm not channeling though. I'm in school (first grade) and uncharacteristically humbled by the experience. Of my teacher I can say this - What a doll!. I do my best not to lust in her presence. Bob Message: #263943, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 24, 1994 5:17:06 PM Subject: #263733-Dead Artists Come Alive From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Shannon + Sara Smith 73521,3045 Shannon: Interesting post on channeling. I recently went to Colorado armed only with channeled info. There I found most of what I had been told I would find and a bonus - bones. Some which appear artificial, in as much, as they appear machined. A few months ago, I purchased a brain wave sychronizer from Tiger Soft for #300.00. I felt that the Nordics use a Theta Wave for their mental communications and quickly discovered our technology isn't up to making radios for these frequencies. I then reasoned, if they could do it - so could I and endeavored to tune 'me' up to the task. It has worked and had results I didn't anticipate and fall under the heading of channeling. The sychronizer quickly 'taught' me how to do this without the machine. However, I occasionally go back to it to reinforce prior lessons. I noted that after a while when I would go into the Theta Zone that I would see certain 'standard' items. The first being a white light that eventually took the form of a two dimensional cloud outline. I found that if I directed my attention into the cloud and let it engulf me, I would be in the zone. There, I've had to opportunity to meet with a female who is teaching me how to go beyond what I've figured out. This entity is an angel (no wings - they itch and were only for our benefit). She is quite beautiful and has no resemblance at all to Nordics whom I know well. I noted that when I would leave the zone, I would have a slight bodywide tremor. Your account of the channeling artist brought this to mind. That tremor has now increased. It only occurs in the theta zone. I'm in perfect health and there is no pathology here. Incidentally, I know another lady undergoing the same thing and we compare notes daily. Her tutor, however, is male and she is ahead of me in results. I allow this to the fact that I have a head as thick as a rock. She reports that the purpose is to teach us how to travel to where they are. She calls it body harmonics. Getting the body to vibrate at a frequency that permits us to slip into a 4 dimensional state. Not only the mind - EVERYTHING. This also serves as a security device against Nordics as it allows escape from anywhere. Try it in a conscious state, you'll find that you can't get the whole body to tremor. An arm, a leg sure - but not the whole thing. When you hit the theta zone - the brain takes over the whole carcass. In my 1963 abduction, I saw two Nordics disappear right in front of my eyes. I always felt they had some hidden device in their clothing that allowed them to do this. Upon reflection - my conclusion may have been wrong. As Nordics are the off spring of angels (of the fallen variety) and humans, it follows they would have taught them the tricks of the trade as well. It's getting to be a very interesting world. Bob Message: #264140, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 25, 1994 1:59:27 AM Subject: #263944-Dead Artists Come Alive From: Don Kircher 76346,3475 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #264147 (1 reply) I trust she would appreciate an apple ;) One of the basic premises of "new age" dogma is that such occurances will become commonplace rather than unique. John Chilton Pierce (Crack in the Cosmic Egg & Magical Child) talks of how we educate the innate ability OUT of our children and the possibilities if we were to nurture this very special connection from birth. Many authors actually refer to this RE-connection [to home] as the "second coming" of the Christos. Not in a man, but rather in mankind. I like this view and would hope that it be true. But I am only acting here as a reporter of the literature I have encountered. My own feeling is largely neutral. Ken Carey takes the idea a step further going so far as to say that mankind is the nervous system of the earth bio-system [gaia in full flower]. As each individual "cell" awakens there will be a harmony which will change the face of the earth. Carey claims that this is actually the third trimester for the "earth fetus" and this "armegeddon" which everyone speaks of is actually a birth in progress of a "star child". The visitors in this unique perspective may be viewed as midwives assisting in something very grand. It is emphasized again and again that WHATEVER is actually going on here. It is important enough to sentient beings that they stop and watch. Apparently what is happening is the prototype for even greater plans. I would be very interested in hearing the nuts and bolts of "how" you established your connection when you are comfortable with releasing that information. Again, I do not expect you to "buy into" these ideas. I'm not sure I do. Though some of the concepts are quite seductive. dlk/co Message: #264147, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 25, 1994 3:44:17 AM Subject: #264140-Dead Artists Come Alive From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Don Kircher 76346,3475 Don: Actually, I've already posted how I came into my connection. After I succeeded in conquering my fear, I was contacted by the Nohsaimus. Following this I was given a indwelling adjuster, essentially a guardian angel. But she does more than sit around and look. I am undergoing a metamorphasis - a change from what I was - to what I will be. I know of one other this is currently happening with and I do not think myself unique. I think we all can do it. It is a very positive adventure, one that is largely mental but with real world observable physical results. You have only to look to the predictions I made in my book. I said that Africa would be the first and the worst hit of the continents. I've further noted that South Africa will fall into turmoil as well. But when it does - civilization on the bulk of the continent will be lost for a long time. I predicted killer earthquakes for California - it happened. I predicted massive natural disorders on unprecendented scales. Already we have had the 500 year flood. And it's going to get worse. The U.S. will suffer the least because of our infrastructure, building codes and the like. The rest of the world will not fare as well. All this material is proveable as preexisting the events. However, in response to the demand of users here, I made a prediction on 4/12 of a small quake in LA three hours before it actually occured. All of these things began to occur AFTER I had removed the Nordics and the abduction scernarios from my life. Aside from fighting with them, I then prevented the abductions and placed myself out of range of their manipulations. In closing that nasty door behind me, a kinder gentler one opened in front of me. I'll repeat myself. The truth is rarely as convoluted as many of the writings you quote and why I have religiously avoided reading them. I 'know' that everyone can make this jump if they 'let go the fear'. Don't ask me how. Fear is very personal and is different for each person. I do know this. One billion people will be spared the ordeal of Armageddon - those who use this time to succeed. Those who remain, will face unimaginable horror. I hate to be negative on this, and don't want to be viewed as a fear monger. Never-the-less, the things I've seen recently, have made me aware the Nordics are far worse than even I imagined and I haven't been one of their cheerleaders. Bob results. Message: #264141, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 25, 1994 2:19:09 AM Subject: #263943-Dead Artists Come Alive From: Don Kircher 76346,3475 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #264148 (1 reply) Robert; Do you have a contact number or address for that device? Message: #264148, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 25, 1994 3:48:24 AM Subject: #264141-Dead Artists Come Alive From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Don Kircher 76346,3475 Don: Which device are you talking about? If the Brainwave syncronizer - it's sold by Tiger Software and they have an 800 #, call information. If the abduction shield, you have to make your own. The Manufacturer is Zygon International Inc 206-885-9200 Redmond, WA Bob Message: #264161, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 25, 1994 6:17:05 AM Subject: Believe ! Westbrook !! From: Ian Dubin 100314,467 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob, Thanks for your message and advice, I do tend to follow my own intuitions, else I would not be where I am nor be capable of corresponding with the people on this forum. It's Sunday night for me and I have spent the day reading 'Alien Encounters', by David Jacobs, a historian at Temple University, who has put something together based on interviews and hypnotic regression with a lot of abductees. His book (Virgin Publishing, 332 Ladbroke Grove London W10 5AH, 1994, ISBN 0 86369 727 5) discusses the experiences of approximately fifty people, Americans, who have apparently been victimized in this phenomenon. Their experiences add up to some sort of controlled breeding programme by 'grays'. He does not use that term, but from his descriptions, that's what they are. I accept his methodology as appropriate, and his information as generally factual. His conclusions follow from his information and they are very similar to some of the things you have written and which other correspondents have set out in this forum. The sexual aspects of abductions were new to me, but again, they are consistent with the overall programme, if you are prepared to accept that as part of the 'Alien Agenda'. Now, I understand and accept your statement that you "don't read ufo books". Fair enough, I only mention this one to you to try and get your perspective as an abductee (see note) on a couple of points of detail that struck me about Jacobs' book. Your experiences, seem to involve several different types of entity, Grays, Nordics, Noshaimus: In Jacobs book we have the grays, short., frail, large heads, large black eyes- I don't have to describe them to you, but Jacob's analysis seems to indicate a second type of 'gray', slightly taller, same physiognomy, more active and authoritative- they are the ones the short grays call when the abductee resists- they are the ones who do the intrusive mental procedures that Jacobs characterizes as 'Mindscan'. Can you cast any light on this disparity? Have you seen different types of 'grays'? Note: Bob, I only know about you what I have received on Compuserve in the last two months or so. I have downloaded and read the excerpts from your book 'A Survivor's Guide..." and this week sometime I will probably get around to mailing you a disk to get the rest of it. As I understand it, you are an abductee and have constructed some means of resisting, and have managed to free yourself from their shackles. Good on ya mate. I may have missed a lot of stuff before I signed onto this forum. If I ask you questions you have already answered, sorry, I have still not figured out how to get historical correspondence from the net (and have not really tried too hard, I must admit, it is difficult enough to find the time to pursue the current stuff). Please do not think I am obtuse, I am just new at this medium. To get back to my questions, none of the Jacobs interviewees mention anything that could be construed as a 'Nordic' (although they do refer to interactions with adolescent creatures who are human/alien hybrids). So where do the Nordics fit in your experience, how do they link into the 'grays' programme, and where do the Noshaimus come in as they do not seem to be common experience among Jacob's abductees either? Plus, do you know where the Noshaimus maintain recruiting offices? I'm fit, single, spiritually aware and bored with my job. Maybe I can pass you a copy of my CV for the next time you run into them? ( about 90%) You're certainly right about Africa getting it in the kisser and I believe, Alien visitors or not, this is, as you put it, only the precursor. As I have pointed out previously, the least unattractive of the disaster scenarios is the one where we all starve to death in about sixty years. If the Nordics, or whoever, come along and tip over our little applecart, they are really only going to be preventing us from doing it to ourselves. This of course, does not make it any more acceptable. And you are also right on about the need to be positive: alright you do have to put up with Fred Clintstone running your part of the planet, and that must be depressing as hell, but do you really think he'll make any difference one way or another in the long run? The more I read of secret CIA plots and the more I see of the way history has been (and is being) shaped, the more apparent it becomes that most western politicians are window dressing for the real powers. No problem with that, I live in a town where the Government is often only a rubber stamp for Big Money and the People's Republic - and who (or what) is running the PRC? Well, hell, it's fun to write this stuff and even more fun to think about it. Does this make me a dilettante? I guess it does, but then again, I've never been abducted. And perhaps, thanks to you and some of the others around here, I never will. Take care, Bob. Maybe this shit will only happen to those who aren't smart enough to duck when the dung is flung. Ian Dubin SSA1OC:\WP51.P\UFO\AWAKE94.724 Message: #5537, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Sun, Jul 24, 1994 11:03:23 PM Subject: #5502-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 (received) Myke: I'm not so sure that it is impossible to catch them on film. My partner in Hawaii has been plagued with abductions for some time. Since using my shield - she no longer has any problems. However, during the attempts, her security lights would come off and on by themselves. Fans would operate although they were turned off etc. In my own instance, I devised a way to tell if any anomolous magnetic energy had entered my bedroom. I was looking for evidence of the dimensional doorway I had 'seen' during prior experiences. I found the evidence and based upon it and some logic constructed a shield. People give these 'aliens' more credit than they really deserve. They screw up all the time. The 3 1/2 foot Grays , for example, only have an IQ of about 80. Hardly genius material. Just because they're hard to catch, doesn't means it's impossible. You just have to learn to think like they do and it isn't that difficult one you understand a sociopathic mentality. Bob Message: #5536, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Sun, Jul 24, 1994 11:03:18 PM Subject: #5510-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Meryl Johnson 73770,1015 (received) Meryl: Obe communications with Nordics is possible. However, they can't touch you in this form and it is totally noninjurious unless you're working with less than a full deck to start with. Those who return dinged up from abductions are usually the one's that fight. I fell into this classification until I learned how to stop them. I've uploaded a file in the abductions subsection called, Shield.txt. It details how to build a cheap device that totally 100% prevents bedroom abductions. It has been tested in battle and works. Bob Message: #5540, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Mon, Jul 25, 1994 12:28:26 AM Subject: #5538-UFO Encounter From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Jon Hart 74521,1267 Jon: Last Thursday, my son saw a ship. I caught his attention because of a red light. Yes, others have seen it. As to it passing thru telephone lines - The ships power source permits them to phase, in various degrees. Meaning that they can do partial or total dimensional jumps. 4D movement implies that 3D substances become irrelevant with a few exceptions. At first blush, I'd question your perspective on the incident but, if you still held solid on it, dimensional shifts are well within the norm of material reported about ufos. I am more concerned about your Gray dreaming after the incident. It is axiomatic that once abducted, they keep coming back. They don't do quickies or one night stands. One of the ways abductees begin to come aware of what has been happening to them is thru dreams. The subconscious starts kicking loose material a little at a time in doses you can handle. Assuming the worse, ask yourself these questions. 1. Do you wake up in the morning with nicks or scratches you didn't go to bed with. 2. Do you wake up naked or with your clothing on differently then you went to bed with (disallowing for normal nocturnal tendencies ). 3. Do you have dreams wherein you are floating in a white light? 4. Do you have dreams wherein you are pinned to a metal table? 5. Do you have sore genitals without explanation? Ditto for rashes. 6. Have you ever shown evidence of knowing things that you knew you could not have know and if so, is it consistent? 7. Related to ufos - do you feel your dreams of Grays make you special, or chosen for some special purpose? 8. Do you feel your experience was of a spiritual nature? 9. In your life, do you have any instance of missing time? 10. Is your IQ 125 or over? If your answers to these questions are predominantly yes, you have something to look into. Also, there is a ufo forum here on cis > Go Newage. You'll find it. Bob Message: #5550, S/3 Abductions Date: Mon, Jul 25, 1994 2:07:01 AM Subject: #5439-LA Blasted Dream From: ROBERT TRAVELL 74633,1426 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #5556 (1 reply) Bob, The "burning of the cities", and the "evaporation" of the cities have all been predicted. Like yourself, I've had many friends who have had similar dreams. With the exception of one dream (when I was about twelve)MY dreams have all been "post catastrophy". In these dreams I am usually standing on asphalt that is covered with water (sort of like after a big rain in a parking lot) except the shining surface is as far as the eye can see. As if all was wiped out. I'm aware in my dream that the time is after the catastrophy. It is all very calm. I am also acutely aware that there are no more negative vibes in the air. Just a great calm. I always awake with mixed emotions. 1) how beautiful the calm was. 2) how desolate it all seemed. I have personal reason to believe this is all going to happen in the very near future. There have been too many people from too many different sources saying the same thing. I think your dream (if it wasnt just a result of some of the t.v. shows -which were pretty graphic-on the subject of wwIII) could have been a glimpse into the future. On that subject(going into the future in your dreams), I know it is true, because it has happened to me several times. Once I related a bizarre dream to a friend (the morning after I had it), and 3 or 4 months later that same individual was with me when the dream came true, exactly like I related it to him. In fact he was the one who remembered the dream. This has happened to me on numerous occasions, where I've told the dream, and later it comes true.This also a part of my belief system which addresses the "multi dimensional aspects of existence". On the Rodney King thing: It was predicted in l955 ( or thereabouts) that if we didnt settle our racial problems in the u.s., blood would run through the cities and our "ever watchful, inveterate enemies would wreak their havoc from the air, raining weapons of destruction on those same cities". There has been too much talk of "white power vs black power" to suit me. Like R. King said "cant we all get along"(g). This african american on Phil Donahue show said they were giving us til '95 (then watch out). This was said twice by two completely different groups. Then I heard the aryan nation (or someone similar) say after the bombing of the synagogue, "that was just the tip of the iceberg! We are stronger that you think", and they are anticipating a BIG race war! This (the aryan ) was a call-in on the Ray Taliafero talk show. If you are on the west coast check it out - KGO 1 to 4 am. Anyway...it doesnt look like we have "settled the racial problems" so maybe the next part of that prediction has to come true. It was also intimated in l955 that the 3rd WW had already started in North Korea! When all this hoopla about nuclear inspection denial, and further about North Korea selling arms (possibly nuclear now that we know they have the capabilities) to Syria, Iraq, Iran??? Could these be our ever watchful inveterate enemies....something to think about. Thats where UFO's come in.....hopefully!!! More on ufos another time. Bob, the time on your message was 4:30 am sun the 24th. could you verify that time. I'm trying to figure out how the time is logged on my messages. My time or the different times (east coast-west coast etc.) Robert Message: #5556, S/3 Abductions Date: Mon, Jul 25, 1994 3:48:12 AM Subject: #5550-LA Blasted Dream From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: ROBERT TRAVELL 74633,1426 (received) Robert: I'm on Pacific Daylight Time. Re: Destructions. You may wish to download the bit of my book, "A Survivor's Guide To Armageddon" from the newage library. The picture here is much bigger and goes back much longer than you can imagine, 10,000 years. It also offers hope as well. Bob Message: #5553, S/3 Abductions Date: Mon, Jul 25, 1994 3:20:02 AM Subject: #5439-LA Blasted Dream From: ROBERT TRAVELL 74633,1426 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) Bob, I read you message to Lauren "fear". It was really fascinating to say the least! Im not being facitious when I ask if you really go to cemeterys and lay traps for these people? I'm not doubting you, but I've had bizarre experiences from age three, also unexplained body marks. One was a perfect purple triangle(1"x1"x1") on my right calf. Another a larger triangle that appeared more like a radiation burn (or something like that) on the same calf only lower - nearer my ankle. The only difference between my "feelings" and yours is that I feel very positive about their involvement with us. Howbeit I am very unsettled (to put it mildly) thinking I am taken without consent! Then again, if this has all been happening since the age of two, or three, maybe, when I am out of this apparent post hypnotic state and fully consciously communicating with "them", I am so familiar with "them" and their "purpose", and at ease with what they are doing, that consent isnt required or requested. Now that I know you are so involved with all this I feel more free to state my beliefs on this subject. I do believe there is going to be (in the very near future) a world wide cataclysm! From all I've read and experienced I believe there is going to be a mass evacuation just prior to the earth tilting on its axis (possibly triggered off by 3ww). Did you see "unsolved mysteries" on the sightings in belgium? The triangular ships? It was really impressive! Without going into detail, I believe they were marking possible landing sights. I think, just maybe, this could be the purpose of the "crop circles". I supposed there could be more than one group of "visitors", but you would think if something so massive was going to happen, and they are all so advanced, why would they be fooling around cemeterys and being so sinister? I'm not belittling or doubting your observations, I'm quite serious when I ask your opinion. You seem to have it together and I would like to hear more of your experiences. I believe I have several implants. I have a few odd "things" on my body, but the most unnerving is a pink scar on the base of my skull (I've mentioned it in other notes). What occured (in detail) was this.. One morning I was showering, when I began to wash my hair I had this extremely sore spot on the base of my skull. There was a bump about the size of a garbonza bean! I could barely touch it, it was so sore. I thought "I guess I must have a boil or something there, I'll keep an eye on it". About three days later I "remembered" the "boil", and when I felt the back of my head, there was nothing there! My head was as if there had never been anything there! I was truly mystified, because anything (I thought) that was as sore as that was HAD to leave a mark! I had my sister, my mother and my best friend look, and there was absolutly nothing there! Not a mark! A week later I woke up with this horrible headache coming from the back of my head. When I felt it, I discovered what to my fingers felt like a crevice about an inch in length and 1/8 inch deep! I Had my mom look that very morning and all she did was raise my hair in the back and instantly said, "when did you hurt yourself?". I asked her what she saw, and she said"you have a pink scar there!". I showed it to my sister and my friend (along with a few other friends) and the remarks were all the same. One said "you have a scar there". I asked, "what do you mean a scar?", she replied "it looks like somebody opened you up!". About a month later I had an appointment with a dermatologist (for something unrelated). I casually asked him if he would check the scar on the back of my head (I wanted professional verification), he looked at it and said "yeah, what about it, is it bothering you?". I said "no I just wanted to see if it was irritated". He said "no, it looks ok to me". So I've been living with this knowledge that someone opened my head and did I dont know what to me, but there doesnt seem to be fear there! I guess I dont want people to fear them, because if there is a mass evacuation, and they suddenly appear to evacuate us, those with fear will run the other way believing them to be evil etc...On the other hand, as I said maybe your experience was with a completely different group. the "nordics"..I'd like to hear about them? Robert Message: #5555, S/3 Abductions Date: Mon, Jul 25, 1994 3:34:01 AM Subject: Catch a Gray ? From: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #5557 (1 reply) Bob, you missed two indicators of abduction that I am aware of: 1. Paper clipping or gem clipping the curtains together as soon as the sun goes down (particularly with women). 2. An utterly perplexing fear that someone may look in through your upper story window. And though you mentioned certain specific types of dreams, abductees may not dream of these things at *all*; abductees simply have MONDO weird dreams. Much of what they do is to manipulate and do damage to the subconscious mind and other parts of the mind and body that science knows little or nothing about. >I've uploaded a file in the abductions subsection called, Shield.txt. It >details how to build a cheap device that totally 100% prevents bedroom >abductions. It has been tested in battle and works. I read your SHIELD.TXT, and I have a couple of questions: How does it work exactly, you created some kind of enclose volume surrounded by extension cord wiring? Do you have some kind of battery backup? I don't understand how this would effect or defeat aliens. Can't they beam into another room? Once inside your room, I don't see how this would physically stop them. Are you saying that your cage neturalizes their ability to produce paralysis and unconsciousness? How can you and your friend be so certain that your abductions have stopped? Message: #5557, S/3 Abductions Date: Mon, Jul 25, 1994 4:24:08 AM Subject: #5555-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 Mike: The paper clipping of window drapes is a new one on me. Could be they don't like peeping tom's As I said in the file, another abductee and I brainstormed the subject and noted that the dimension door never appear where there was wiring. Radiation is radiation, the only thing that makes it unique is it's frequency. Radiated energy moving across a conductive wire produces a small electrical charge. Note how the ceiling fan was turning during the abudction attempt. The more energy shot in, the faster the fan turned. It follows that IF the wire is intercepting the energy and transforming it - it ain't hitting your carcass. With that thought in mind, you need to address the various stages and variations involved with performing an abduction. 1. Sedate every living thing in the house. They do this with beamed energy. I can't tell you how it works, only that it does. The shield keeps this from working. If you're caught outside of the shield - you'll fall asleep and be abducted. Fortunately, the onslaught of sleep is not instantaneous and you have time to get in your bed. a.Nordics and Grays are paranoid beyond imagination. Both have survival instincts and neither want to die. Walking into a house where the people aren't comatose puts them at serious risk. I have mangled more than one Gray myself. 2. The dimensional door. If there is an interior wall in direct line of sight with the surface of the bed, the 4D door is practical. The shoot a beam on the wall (blue) open a dimensional door sufficiently large to handle your carcass, and then they shoot a white tractor beam that levitates you our of your bed and thru the door. They put you back the same way (usually). I was thrown out without benefit of the levitating beam the last time they bagged me. This is the idea situation. 3. 4 Grays and your body. If, for some reason the 4D door isn't practical they send 4 Grays in. You've already been sedated. The come thru the walls, pick u up and carry you outside where they will either use the tractor beam to levitate you up into the ship, or they'll simply carry you aboard. If you're in a rural area, they'll land right next to the house. Heavily populated urban areas, they hover. Where the shield comes in is that it prevents the sedation beam from putting you into a nearly comatose state. If you are in normal sleep, you can wake up quickly - making you dangerous. Secondarily, for the Grays to reach thru the wiring - they have to drop their shielding device that keeps them from view. This is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS, particularly in my case as I keep a gun on the night stand in easy reach. The point here is - they ain't gonna do it. They will not take the risk. Once the shield is up, all you have to remember is, if sleepy - get into bed. Don't crash on the couch or anywhere else. The worse that can happen here is you end up with 200 feet of extension cord and a fan. The abductions at Angelfish's were heated encounters, The last attempt was about 8 days ago. I was up all night with her. They didn't get her. She was alert, aware and stayed in the cage except for a short trip to the bath room. Now she's aware and comfortable that she's safe. She's let go the fear as well. A remarkable lady. No - a battery backup is unnecessary and futile. If they kill the power, as they did at Angel's you're sol. Anything requiring electricity is a moot point. The fan isn't necessary but I prefer to have a moving magnetic field in that wiring. It doesn't hurt. Sure they can beam into another room, but to get you outta the shield, they have to drop cover and get vulnerable. Hell, they still drop a Gray off on my roof now and then to see if anythings changed. They can look all they bloody want. They can't DO anything. As to how we're sure the abductions have stopped? Well now, that's objective and subjective. When they pick me up, my subconscious goes ballistic. I jump off the table and try to kill as many of those little gray buggers as I can. Usually, they're pretty good about putting your clothes back on. In my case, I wake up butt naked, with my shorts laying on the floor at the foot of the bed. I also, have cuts and nicks I didn't go to bed with (from the fighting). Angelfish is a hitter too. She arrives back with her shirt on backwards minus a pair of panties and of course, the cuts and scratches. Once you 'get loose' the Grays swarm you. It's hard to see them in the darkened room. I've have 3 or 4 on my back at once. They have a circular device they slap on the back of your neck that knocks you out. They use that time to get you outta Dodge as quickly as they can. It leaves a 'hicky' at the base of your neck. Somehow, both of us have been able to transfer the equivalent of conscious control to our subconscious. The conscious is sedated, but the can't seem to affect the subsoncsious. Thus, they can't keep us down or in place for long. How do I know, I don't wake up dinged. For the first time since childhood, I sleep well. I no longer have unexplained or irrational fears. As I am not a fearful person, these bouts with the boogey man were troublesome in the extreme. Furthermore, as I explained in the file, I got immediate confirmation from one very angry and frustrated Gray. Let's put it this way Myke, you have little to lose and a lot to gain. I'd also point out that I have no profit motive here. I'm not making shields or trying to get rich. What I know, I mostly give away. My good deed for the decade. Bob Message: #5576, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Mon, Jul 25, 1994 10:05:25 AM Subject: #5537-Catch a Gray ? From: John W. Ratcliff 70253,3237 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (deletable) >> The 3 1/2 foot Grays , for example, only have an IQ of about 80. Which IQ test did you give them Bob? I know there is some controversy over various methods of testing for IQ, and was curious as to which profile you ran. In my experience Grays generally have an IQ around 235. This is by using the Rhoden-Prodsty system, which removes cultural bias from the scoring. John Message: #264322, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 25, 1994 3:21:05 PM Subject: #264161-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Ian Dubin 100314,467 Ian: The Term "Gray" is generic. There are three kinds and I dislike them all. The little 3.5 footer only has an IQ of about 80. Worker bee. The 4 footer is a little smarter. There is a 4.5 foot Gray that weighs in with an IQ of about 125. Next up the ladder is the Brown. IQ 135-145, stands about 5 foot. One critter that seems rare (in as much as I've never heard about it) is a Red. I saw this guy in 1963. He stands about 7 foot and appears insect like. He isn't. His arms and legs are long and thin like a preying mantis with the radical joints of an insect. He is very smart, IQ 200+. The Nordics who picked me up were subject to his command and he was really pissed they'd put the snatch on me. He's the top end model of the Gray. Even so - they did what they do. Generally, speaking though - the Nordics are top at the top of the food chain. They are homo superior - human. To answer your question. Nordics are the bosses. Grays are artificially engineered life forms designed for the sole purpose of serving Nordic interests. As for Nohsaimus - they don't abduct and are completely benign. You won't hear much about them from abductees. It is only AFTER I managed to control Nordic involvement in my life AND divorce myself of the fear that had been programmed into me via the abduction processes that they sought me out. People who run into them usually feel they've had spiritual encounters as they belong to a race we call angels. Incidentally, the wings were for our benefit. They don't like them cause they itch. Everyone is available for recruitment by the Nohsaimus. First, you must let go the fear. Secondly, I found the brainwave sychronizer (theta band) usefuly in opening up my otherwise dense head. You are wrong about Armageddon. This is the Nordic harvest of the herd. We are going to do it to ourselves only to the extent that we're allowing ourselves to be manipulated and have for 10,000 years. Clinton is the lynch pin that finally pulls the plug on world stability. He is, himself, an abductee and is Hillary. He will make the wrong decisions and the right time and will destabilize the money markets which will result in many military conflicts at scattered points around the globe. Bob Message: #5605, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Mon, Jul 25, 1994 3:20:25 PM Subject: #5576-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: John W. Ratcliff 70253,3237 (deletable) John: Nice tongue in cheek, I give a 10 on thought and a 9 on delivery. Almost shows the expertise of a Jesuit with his hand in your pocket. My info, and I concur with it as part and parcel of my experience, comes from Derrel Sims. As we have yet to sit one of the little buggers down for testing, we are limited to deductions made by naturalistic observation, the first rule of the scientific method. Based on my on experience with them, I can't say I have any great admiration for their mental abilities. The screw up frequently, are the lowest visible element of the Nordic realm and are given much more credence for ability than they really deserve. Were in not of the tech toys - we'd be using them for footballs. Incidentally, I have a bone I discovered in the Colorado area a few weeks ago. I have it out for testing. It appears to have been manufactured. As I'm not an orthopedic expert, I'll have to await the results. However, I strongly suspect it belongs to a Gray. Near the bones, I found a set of animal bones. My feeling it belongs to a mountain lion - again - out for testing. If mountain lion A, ate little Gray bugger B and B was toxic A and B would both die and leave remnants. What fascinates me is that no effort was made to recover the remains unless, of course, critter C was lurking around somewhere and scared them off. I've noted that when faced with a lethal threat (me) the show clear signs of possessing survival instincts. Bob Message: #264409, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 25, 1994 6:27:04 PM Subject: #264148-Dead Artists Come Alive From: PJ 73363,1075 To: westbrook 71705,262 <<... the Brainwave syncronizer - it's sold by Tiger Software and they have an 800 #, call information. >> I don't understand how I can download and read *everything* and still I often feel like I've missed a crucial message... sorry! What exactly is this and why were you referring to it Bob? PJ Message: #5632, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Mon, Jul 25, 1994 8:25:02 PM Subject: #5540-UFO Encounter From: Jon Hart 74521,1267 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 Thanks for all the info.. Basically, that is pretty much what was happening to me, but no physical changes occured to me. The the dream I was in a solid white room and whatever I did a Gray (as you call it) did the same thing (He was in the room with me) I was never on any tables or anything, and it only lasted a couple months. I'm glad that other people have seen things like that, I didn't want to be alone here. I just hope it never happens again (the dreams) Right now I'm studying UFO's after the encounters: show. I've grown very interested in UFO's over the past day or so (I took out 10 books at the library today and the librarian thought I was nuts). I haven't found any record of what I saw but whatever it was it was something not of this world. It seemed as though it defied all the laws of physics from the ultra-cviolet emmisions to it being to very large and perfectly round in size/shape. As for it moving through the air, the field is about 2 miles and it scaled it in seconds (I would say 4 seconds, meaning it was going well over 1800 mph) Which is subsonic or sonic (I forgot) speeds. Either way that is very fast. It did feel spiritual in some way because it didn't seem like it had any mass, just a big sphere of light. I won't bother with checking for implants because if there's something in my body, I don't mind, it's probably giving me my 149 IQ, but It certainly was a phenominal experience. Thanks for all your info, Bob, and keep in touch. Jon Message: #264575, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Mon, Jul 25, 1994 10:17:04 PM Subject: #264409-Dead Artists Come Alive From: westbrook 71705,262 To: PJ 73363,1075 The device hit's your eyes with light pulses set to generate a Theta wave brain response. Additionally, it has music and audio that enhances the effect. Bob Message: #5649, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Mon, Jul 25, 1994 11:11:25 PM Subject: #5605-Catch a Gray ? From: George White 71511,1072 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 You found bones from an alien? I will be interested in what the lab results are. How could they prove to be from an alien? Which lab are you using? Has anyone ever taped an abduction or asked one of the aliens questions that only someone from another planet could answer? I am just curious. Message: #5656, S/3 Abductions Date: Mon, Jul 25, 1994 11:56:13 PM Subject: #5557-Catch a Gray ? From: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 Bob, the basic principle behind what you have constructed is what electrical engineering calls a Faraday Cage which shields out EM radiation. >Somehow, both of us have been able to transfer the equivalent of conscious >control to our subconscious. The conscious is sedated, but they can't seem to >affect the subconscious. Thus, they can't keep us down or in place for long. They most certainly can effect the subconscious mind and if you are very psychic (which is rooted in the subconscious) they will pay special attention to that part of your mind, harassing you endlessly in the dream planes. Dreams are real, not just a nightly cartoon in our minds, and aliens take every advantage of this fact and our near total ignorance of it. Through dreams, we are accessable in a way that I do not believe your shielding device will have any effect on. >Once you 'get loose' the Grays swarm you. It's hard to see them in the >darkened room. I've have 3 or 4 on my back at once. They have a circular >device they slap on the back of your neck that knocks you out. They use that >time to get you outta Dodge as quickly as they can. Who is swarming you, large grays or small grays? Small grays do not swarm a potentially violent abductee, thats not their job and they are the first to high tail it. The large ones will move forward and attempt to lock you in eye contact. I believe that at this point is your only chance to take out an alien unless you can grab one of the little grays before they can get away. The big ones will come at you and if you can break their mind coercion, enchanced by technology, AND do sufficient damage to its head or neck before they knock every lifeform in the room unconscious, then you can manage to kill one of them. As you have noted, they are very fearful of bodily harm, and have many checks and procedures that they have developed over the course of trillions upon trillions of such operations on thousands of worlds, to absolutely minimize this. They have traded having a reincarnating soul (and returning to God after each incarnation) for the ability to copy the contents of the physical part of their mind to a new genetic xerox when the old one wears out. They do not wish to return to God, they are aligned with the dark side of the force. They are true undead, having given up their souls for a not so "immortal" continuous physical existance. Killing them is like wiping a file off of a computer, its *GONE* forever. Thus, they fear death MUCH more than we do. While you are correct that their own safety is their highest priority, I do not believe that it hampers them as much as you say. They have succesfully performed this kind of take over on thousands of worlds effecting trillions of beings. >When they pick me up, my subconscious goes ballistic. I jump off the table and >try to kill as many of those little gray buggers as I can. Usually, they're >pretty good about putting your clothes back on. In my case, I wake up butt >naked, with my shorts laying on the floor at the foot of the bed. I also, have >cuts and nicks I didn't go to bed with (from the fighting). Angelfish is a >hitter too. She arrives back with her shirt on backwards minus a pair of >panties and of course, the cuts and scratches. If you have any fantasies about just how vulnerable you are or about being invulnerable, they will encourage you in this in evey way they can using very subtle, clever, and elaborate means. We have some power to resist, but if they want you bad enough, sooner or later they will wear you down. >No - a battery backup is unnecessary and futile. If they kill the power, >as they did at Angel's you're sol. So if they really want you, they can still get you. I, and those I know who have been helped, don't have to fear this. Message: #5657, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Tue, Jul 26, 1994 12:15:00 AM Subject: #5540-UFO Encounter From: Robert Clifford 70004,3355 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 do saucer men like our genitals or something? jeezus, they always seem to go for them -- why? Message: #5674, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Tue, Jul 26, 1994 1:16:22 AM Subject: #5649-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: George White 71511,1072 George: Aliens have been known to be a bit on the camera shy side. The answer is, "No, not that I'm aware of". Nor are they big on giving interviews. Their not here to tell us the secret of life. Would you discuss philosophy with a lab rat? They operate best while we keep thinking the abductee is nuts. This raises an interesting point. The first rule of the scientific method is naturalistic observation. If a thing behaves in a consistent and predictable manner - we can correctly attribute certain perceived aspects to it and it is scientifically acceptable. We've done this in the case of near death experiences where the only real evidence is what is reported by those who lived thru it. they've studied it, made statistics and accepted that there is a high degree of probability these are, in fact, real events. No one calls the person nuts. Yet, when applied to Ufos and abductions, an area where we have far much more data - the official scientific community says - 'they're nut's' and ignores the data. We have more valid ufo data than do the proponents of the idea that passive smoke kills 100,000 a year. Yet, you don't see NO ALIEN signs in restaurants. The Illogic of the situation bares several truths. 1. The government is impotent (or does not wish) to stop these intrusions. 2. The 'they're nut's' arguement gives a rationale for inaction. 3. Conceiveably so many people have been abducted that it's possible that the attitudes of those abductees reflect that which they were programmed to believe - don't look - don't touch - don't believe. Ergo everyone can smugly laugh and say 'ufo nut!' 4. There is an unbelievable mass hysteria that hits ten of thousands of unrelated an unconnected people. There is no logic to this arguement. As for my bones. There are three possibilities. 1. Animal. 2. Human 3. Non of the above. I sent the bones To Derrel Sims of Hufon and he's sent scrapings to a lab. I should have them back tomorrow and will search out my own lab. I haven't decided yet. I'd rather the lab be here in L.A. as I don't care to let them out of my possession again. I also, have to find out the costs and budget the deal. Bob Message: #5702, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Tue, Jul 26, 1994 8:34:16 AM Subject: #5537-Catch a Gray ? From: Cassandra McDonough 76206,1741 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 >The 3 1/2 foot Grays , for example, only have an IQ of about 80 I've never heard of IQ tests being given to grays. Can you tell me more about this, like who provided the tests and such? It's a very interesting concept. Message: #5678, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Tue, Jul 26, 1994 1:22:00 AM Subject: #5657-UFO Encounter From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Robert Clifford 70004,3355 Why do they like our genitals? Do you eat sweetbreads? Seriously, they use the stolen genetic material to create races of hybrids. You may say we're a genetic grocery store or ranch depending on whether you prefer to be viewed as bovine or vegetable. Bob Message: #5673, S/3 Abductions Date: Tue, Jul 26, 1994 1:16:13 AM Subject: #5656-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 (received) Reply: #5688 (1 reply) Myke: When you say 'then can most certainly effect your subconscious', are you speaking from experience? I will agree with you that for 30 years they did keep me down and controlled. However, as of 10/93 - that changed. During that abduction, I became aware of what was going on around me. I lifted my head up from the table and saw a Gray down near my right foot. When he saw me alert, he started moving towards me. I put my foot into the middle of his face as hard has I could. I felt one grab me from behind on my left shoulder. I grabbed him by the wrist and pulled him forward and gave him a couple of shots to the face. The two I hit crumpled to the floor (glass jaws). I jumped off the table saying, "You wanted me you sons of bitches - now you got me" I started pounding every one I could get my hands on but was rat packed by several from behind it with a neuroparalyzer and thrown out the 4D door. I recall one of them yelling "He's loose - get him out of here" as a left the table. In subsequent abductions, this same scenario repeated itself. As we only have access to 10% of our brains - I find it highly unlikely that certain voluntary conscious functions could not be transfered temporarily to a different part of the brain. An analogy would be using one box of computer memory rather than another, both can function the same. If you're correct, it means I've done something that isn't possible. This rates with a low degree of probability. As I've done it not once, but several times it goes beyond being a fluke. Further the comment that 'He's loose' implies they've had this problem with others as well. That they had so many available to handle a problem situation also implies a foreknowledge of potential danger. The logic of the situation is such that a reasonable person would conclude that my experience is not totally unique and there are some who can break their controls. I will agree with you on the subject of manipulating the subconscious. I was told not to return to the area of my 1963 abduction. I did, 30 years later to the week of the original event. I felt like a salmon returning to spawn but didn't know why at that moment. I was told that if I focused on the subject matter that I'd be thought of as 'crazy'. I was told that if I wasn't a good little boy - they'd come back and get me and I wasn't going to like it. To all of this I said, Screw It. Better dead then undersome else's heal. I discovered it was all bull. All the programing was false. Yet, at each new level, I ran into fear surpassing terror at some points. All implanted to keep me, and other abductees from searching out the truth. At the moment in time that you 'get loose' there is no mind lock on you and the level of my focus is such - they don't get it back. I concentrate on only one thought - kill. They, incidentally are focused on the same thing - 'not being killed'. These radical conditions are excellent for conflict. As to large, medium or small. Hell man, You don't have time to pull out a tape measure. You're in a darkened room where the only light is over the table and you've moved away from it. You're striking at shadows and trying to keep your back to a wall AND you're fighting for your life (so you think). And on top of it you're butt naked - not that I'm shy or even thinking about it but I would be nicer to have your clothes on. I will say that I've pulled this same routine on Nordics and haven't fared as well as against Grays. They're bigger stronger, much more agressive and won't think twice about cleaning your clock. I will agree that blows to the head seem to take them out of action. I wouldn't advise biting though - they very well could be toxic. I agree with you they have no soul. I disagree how you think they got into that condition. Grays are artificially created lifeforms. The product of Nordic labor. Nordics are the off spring of breeding between humans and angels (of the fallen variety). At the time of the Lucifer Rebellion, this section was cut off from the rest of the universe and with it, the source of souls. The Universe has the exclusive distribution rights here. Lucifer, and Satan, and the few that followed them began the creation of new hybrid races. Top on that ladder are the Nordics. Neither they, nor any of the hybrids they've created have ever received a soul. Whether that will change in the future, remains to be seen. To a Nordic, a Gray is an expendable commodity. Grays don't necessarily share this view. Re: Wearing me down. No way Jose'. You give them more credit than they deserve. My shield works. 'They' don't get me anymore. Period. What's to wear down. I have only rule to live by. Sleep in the cage. That's it. The only modification I've had to make to my daily routine. I don't share your defeatist view on the subject. "So if they really want you they can get you"..... Again you repeat this passage. The shield(cage) does not require power. It's passive and that's the beauty of it. I prefer and added margin of safety, but it isn't required. I haven't asked you your relationship here. Abductee? Researcher? Speculator? I speak and write from real life one on one experience. My objectivity and logic are such that I am able to make my living as a private investigator. A pretty rough business not recommended for most. To the abductee to tells me there is no hope I say.... Until you've taken control of your own life, ended your abductions and stood your own ground, how are we to know that what you're saying is indeed factual and not the product of Nordic programming. Given one man who HAS done this, it follows that others can and your statement, therefore lacks logic. A premise not proveable by logic is irrational. Ergo your thoughts are irrational and subject to further scrutiny. To the research I'd say... It is one thing the read, to listen to the experiences of others, to catalog, and catagorize. However, until it's your a$$ on the firing line, your opinions are moot as they lack proveablity in any forum. They are, at best, interesting statistics To the Speculator who has theories based on the research of others but who does not endeavor to prove or disprove anything..... This is akin to masturbation. You think something is happening but all you end up with is a mess. The speculations have no logical value in any real circumstance until something is done with them. I will make this offer to anyone who knows they are an abductee. If you put up the cage according to my specs. I will 1. Consult with u and make sure you have it right. 2. I will hold your hand thru each step up to, and even, staying on the phone with you all night if need be. 3. I will walk you thru the fear. It's false and has no basis in fact. It is only an illusion implanted to keep you servile. 4. I will show you what I say is true. And it won't cost you diddly - nor will you end up in a book I'm writing etc. Ie: No ulterior motives. I will not, however, deal with jerks, miscreatants or people who just want attention. To these - adopt a pet. AND on top of it, I'll let you use my 800 line so it doesn't cost you money. Such a deal! Bob Message: #5688, S/3 Abductions Date: Tue, Jul 26, 1994 3:47:12 AM Subject: #5673-Catch a Gray ? From: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 First, I am not holding a bat behind my back (like I most definitely *WILL* with laughing abductee bigots) I do not doubt your sincerity, you are obviously *VERY* interested in helping people in suffering, which ultimately, we all are. Secondly, I am the furthest thing from hopeless; as I stated in my previous message, my abductions, and the abductions of my loved one's and friends have ended. I want to rattle everyone's cage and tell them that help is *available*, not just for abductions, but out of the Eraser Head nightmare of pain and suffering that we all live in. I've learned the hard way that *only* the very brightest and best have their interest caught, most people spit on the thought that they could use protection. I've dropped hints here several times, even coming right out and saying I get help from the other side, the angels that didn't fall, the Extraterrestrials of Light, but just the idea of there being two side was too much for everyone here. The only result it had was the creation of the acronym UB, unearthly being, which precisely fails to recognize the existance of good Extraterrestrials who are diametrically opposed to aliens. While I know you want to help, I also know that nothing short of Their help will really stop anyone's abductions, much less repair the *severe* damage that abductions do to one's conscious and subconscious minds, which psychologist can even begin to detect, much less diagnose or cure. However, Dr. Jacobs has proven the usefulness of video camera in fostalling abductions and I have no doubt yours is a tremendous advance over his methods. I'd like to see you put your idea in a more presentable form: I don't understand the basic physical principles behind you device. Previously, you said that without power you were sol, like the woman in Hawaii. Without power, I don't understand how the shielding is taking place, or how it would force the grays to drop their shields to penetrate it? Message: #5721, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Tue, Jul 26, 1994 2:30:06 PM Subject: #5702-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Cassandra McDonough 76206,1741 Cassandra I answered this same question. Follow the thread and you'll get the answer. The short of it is - personal experience and observation. Bob Message: #5720, S/3 Abductions Date: Tue, Jul 26, 1994 2:30:04 PM Subject: #5712-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Frank Turner 72540,736 Frank: I think need to point out that I am not addressing anything as exotic as astral projection. Magnetic energy is used in our 3D environment on our physical bodies. Logic demands that a faraday arrangement will work. Further, it can be verified with anyone who knows for a fact they are an abductee. Bob Message: #5722, S/3 Abductions Date: Tue, Jul 26, 1994 2:30:11 PM Subject: #5688-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 Myke: We seem to be an agreement on most things but differ on the issue of responsibility. I'm more inclined to wipe my own backside rather than wait for an angel to do it for me. I'm reasonably certain they'd feel the same way too. The shield functions on a very simple principle. When a moving magnetic field crosses a conductive surface (wire) it creates a small electrical charge. You simply ground out the charge. It doesn't 'shield', it intercepts the signal and redirects it away from you. The practical effect is shielding. To maintain a 4D status requires energy. We know, mathematically, that a jump into 4D requires the rotation of reality 90 degrees. The means of doing that is magnetic. For a Gray, or any one else, to physically lay their hands on you - they're going have to become sufficiently solid to do the job. THAT FACT, places them at risk. If they can touch you, you can hurt them. They place a heavy reliance on their ability to sedate you into zombieland. Bob Message: #5769, S/3 Abductions Date: Tue, Jul 26, 1994 8:46:00 PM Subject: #5722-Catch a Gray ? From: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 >I'm more inclined to wipe my own backside rather than wait for an angel to do >it for me. I'm reasonably certain they'd feel the same way too. You have it backwards, the angels want *your* help. Who else is going to do the dirty work of cleaning up the mess this planet is about to plunge into? But how can you help when your mind has been twisted and warped by a lifetime of having the innermost parts of your mind violated, riped and torn? It is this unwillingness to assist our elder brothers and sisters, and each other, that put us into isolation and left us vulnerable to the aliens in the first place. >We know, mathematically, that a jump into 4D requires the rotation of reality >90 degrees. People with math or physics training will shut you out right aware and jump to the conclusion you are crazy, just for the kind of language you use. You should skip all this and just state that aliens use some kind of EM radiation to neutralize their victims, and a Faraday cage will prevent this. From what you have described, plating your house in aluminum would have a superior effect, though I couldn't speak for cost... Message: #5794, S/3 Abductions Date: Tue, Jul 26, 1994 11:04:05 PM Subject: #5769-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 (received) Reply: #5816 (1 reply) Myke: Re: Plating my house in aluminium, I have no idea what the cost is, but it wouldn't look very good either. I find that you and I have the potential for enormous personality conflicts. I've noted that combatant abductees are so militant (myself included) and so sure of their ground (myself included) that we tend to pontificate. We are pretty close on most of our experience and conclusions although I've noted that you typcially do not lay a foundation for proffering yours. Instead you spit it out as if it's gospel without a logical support structure under it. As an example your statement that people with physics or math training would reject the concept of a 90 degree magnetic rotation, as the means of making the transition into 4D is without merit or any foundation to support your 'opinion'. Unsupported opinions are like beliefs. Best left in the hands of rabbi's and ministers, in as much as they require no proof. On the subject of angels, I don't care to deify these people. They are a species related genetically to us (cousins). Our religious backgrounds tell us to humble ourselves to their help and assumes they are here to help everyone. Again, there is no evidence or logic to support this idea. It is even more suspect when you factor in that the Nordics are themselves responsible for major portions of the world's major religions. I make this observation as a point of logic. An assumption not supported with a logical foundation is a belief. For that one should go to church. That aside: Based on my experiences with angels, I would agree they are inclined to help 'some' people. Yes, they do need our interactions but for reasons I suspect you aren't aware. The Nohsaimus have, at the root of their culture, a prime directive - Free Will. They do not go where they haven't been invited, and do not deliver assistance that hasn't been asked for. It is within the realm of OUR free will to bring them into our sphere. Then and only then - do they interact. I find them agreeable and friendly - devoid of the fear and paranoia obvious in the Nordic Empire. I've also noted they do not wish or solicit 'worship'. Unlike the Nordics, they make no pretense at being Gods or anything supernatural. They do demand civilized deportment and a degree of cordial respect. All in all, I find them reasonable people. I'd like to set up a time in the evening so you can I can hook up and chat. I'm on pacific time. Bob Message: #5816, S/3 Abductions Date: Wed, Jul 27, 1994 4:41:11 AM Subject: #5794-Catch a Gray ? From: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 >Re: Plating my house in aluminium, I have no idea what the cost is, > but it wouldn't look very good either. I didn't mean this as joke (I would never joke about such a matter) though the idea was thrown out pretty raw. I mean like aluminium siding and metallic roofing metal which is very common (Cat On a Hot Tin Roof). A house built out of such material will have a Faraday Cage around the entire house. I'm sure that there are many houses in existance built like that; it never occured to me the advantages they might have... hmmm.... >As an example your statement that people with physics or math training >would reject the concept of a 90 degree magnetic rotation, as the means >of making the transition into 4D is without merit or any foundation to >support your 'opinion'. Well you never said "magnetic" before; you usually said a 90 rotation of "reality". I wasn't saying you don't know what you're talking about, I'm saying violent intellectual geeks will feel the urge to attack you for no particular reason other than the fact they jump to the conclusion you're all psuedo- science or worse based only on your choice of words. Simplify your initial description and you can nip a good portion of this in the bud. We already have to deal with guilt by association on *anything* dealing with this subject; I know on the one hand people will always be laughing (if it weren't the truth, the fools wouldn't be laughing at it) and I have to remain detached from that, but I don't want to make it any easier for them. I've made a habit of wiping the smile off the faces of those who come *here* to laugh, especially the know it alls who worship established science/technology. >I find that you and I have the potential for enormous personality >conflicts. I've noted that combatant abductees are so militant (myself >included) and so sure of their ground (myself included) that we tend to >pontificate. We are pretty close on most of our experience and conclusions >although I've noted that you typcially do not lay a foundation for proffering >yours. Instead you spit it out as if it's gospel without a logical support >structure under it. Well... I stand guilty as charged on all but the last count, and even then some. I was certainly spewing with my "the only way to kill and alien is..." crap; the thought came to me of Travis Walton kicking the shit out of one of the little f**kers, though he appeared to be a low priority sporadic abduction. I've been treated different from most, I strongly suspect that I have a convergance of blood lines that they have been tagging for many generations, long before the wider scale operation currently in place began. My mother has recessive hemophelia, despite the fact that I'm also full of pioneer blood. In tracing back my family tree, the more aristocratic blood they have, the more strange stories about themselves and their ancestors they have, accompanied by a spooky secretiveness, which I think is the result of a generationally passed on responce to having so many experiences that couldn't tell to anyone. At any rate, with the convergance of so many blood lines that carry the male dominance gene, high intelligence and aristocratic psychic ability, I was grade AAA choice genetic selection, tops on their list, but also, the most difficult to contain. I have no scratches or abduction scars of any kind, another sign of being treated different. This last is the reason I doubted that your scars would have come from fighting them. With the exception of the neuroparalizer mark left at the base of your skull, I would think that such marks would be the result of succesful operations instead of aborted ones, or even worse, a charade designed to lead you to believe that that was a predictable part your abductions, lulling you to believe that in their absense, less frequent sporadic abductions could not be taking place. >Based on my experiences with angels, I would agree they are inclined to >help 'some' people. Yes, they do need our interactions but for reasons I >suspect you aren't aware. The Nohsaimus have, at the root of their culture, a >prime directive - Free Will. They do not go where they haven't >been invited, and do not deliver assistance that hasn't been asked for. >It is within the realm of OUR free will to bring them into our sphere. >Then and only then - do they interact. I find them agreeable and friendly - >devoid of the fear and paranoia obvious in the Nordic Empire. >I've also noted they do not wish or solicit 'worship'. Unlike the Nordics, >they make no pretense at being Gods or anything supernatural. >They do demand civilized deportment and a degree of cordial respect. >All in all, I find them reasonable people. Whoa, Nohsaimus? Sounds like you are describing the good guys, but it sounds like we have a completely different context on it. We all have the potential to awaken to our God Self and we can have access to our own supernatural powers from the same source as they. Worshiping them for being this way is a lazy cop-out, acting like they came in with all the goodies and the path of spiritual evolution was easier for the them and just to tough for the poor pathetic worshiping student. It seems strange to me the way you call them "angels" yet deny that they are working in the service of the Holy Father and suspecting them of being in it for themselves instead of acting out of compassion. >I'd like to set up a time in the evening so you can I can hook up >and chat. I'm on pacific time. I live in Redondo Beach, I know you live in LA too, though I don't know exactly where. Perhaps we could meet? My home/work number is 798-0176 and I'm here most of the time. Message: #265221, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Jul 27, 1994 9:05:05 AM Subject: Believe Westbrook?????? From: Wayne Walusiak/IL 72366,421 To: westbrook 71705,262 re: 'This sh*t doesn't have to happen to me' Bravo ! Excellent ! WW Message: #5836, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Wed, Jul 27, 1994 9:46:00 AM Subject: #5721-Catch a Gray ? From: Cassandra McDonough 76206,1741 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 >Follow the thread and you'll get the answer. Sorry. I was following the thread. Message: #5833, S/3 Abductions Date: Wed, Jul 27, 1994 9:09:18 AM Subject: #5720-Catch a Gray ? From: Frank Turner 72540,736 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 I think it's all interrelated anyway Bob. AP need not be thought of as exotic, in fact I think everyone does it - they just don't remember. The literature I've been studying suggest that abductees are victims of "psychic" attacks. The nomenclature is particular only to the individual. Call it, spiritual, astral, 4th dimensional, UFO, it all boils down to the same thing in the model that I'm presently studying. I would also suspect another thing. The F cage would probably work both ways. Nothing could get in or out - to a certain extent anyway. The astral body being fluid and maleable con consist of finer and finer material too. I wonder....have you noticed any significant changes in your dreaming patterns since sleeping in the cage. Also, I tired to find your file on the construction. Which forum and library?? Message: #5840, S/3 Abductions Date: Wed, Jul 27, 1994 9:54:13 AM Subject: #5722-Catch a Gray ? From: Frank Turner 72540,736 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 One would have to ask if the greys can shut off video cameras why can't they just clip the ground wire(s) on the F cage? I'd really like to take a look at your construction..... Message: #5913, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Wed, Jul 27, 1994 8:29:17 PM Subject: #5847-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Frank Turner 72540,736 Frank: I have a theory on how electrical things blitz during ufo assaults. A couple of weeks ago, Angelfish (ufo forum) and I were talking and another abduction attempt started. She has one particular ceiling fan that starts turning on it's own during these events. One evening she called me in a panic and I was up all night with her. The fan hit three levels, slow ,medium and blistering and it was obvious the power was being turned up with each failed attempt to 'sedate' her. Incidentally, she has my shield up. The following month, she received her power bill and it was astronomical. She called the power company complaining that the sum total of all her appliances if turned on full blast for 24 hours a day, could not result in the consumption she was billed for. They agreed and checked the meter. The found nothing wrong with the meter and gave her credit. No longer after we were in another conversation and she said, "Sh*t, the fan has started up again." She moved to the shield and watched the led's on her various clocks reset themselves and started blinking. I'm in LA and she's in Hawaii a three hour time difference. I asked her to tell me what time it was. She looked at a non led clock, told me the time and I calculated the difference between 'her' time and what it 'should be' based on my PDT time - 20 minutes. Her time frame was 20 minutes ahead of where it should be. I made the assumption that the clock was working correctly to start with. She agreed that it had been. Factor in the fact, that there frequently are time differences in a landing zone and outside of a landing zone when they are measured by identical time pieces. The logic here indicates that a feature of the Nordic abduction scenario is to alter time speeding up the natural functions of things within the field. Related to abductions - it's conceivable they speed up your body's natural time frame and hurry you up to the point you would normally fall asleep. Re: her appliances. If there had been a massive surge of energy through her household circuits, it would have blown the breakers. It didn't. Instead, everything appeared to be working normally - computers etc, except for the clocks that are made for a 60 hertz time frame. Car batteries are direct current while household is alternating. Apply this idea of enhanced local time to the dc battery and we see a scenario that could quite likely short the battery pushing it beyond it's capacity. As soon as the event ends, the battery returns to normal. Bob Message: #5910, S/3 Abductions Date: Wed, Jul 27, 1994 8:01:23 PM Subject: #5794-Catch a Gray ? From: Lawrence M. Lutton 73210,3510 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) Why not use aluminum siding? Message: #5914, S/3 Abductions Date: Wed, Jul 27, 1994 8:29:19 PM Subject: #5840-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Frank Turner 72540,736 Frank: Download the file, sheild.txt from the library. The instructions are in there. If you have a hard time visualizing it, draw a rectangle and put an x in it. You have it. If, you're in LA, you're welcome to drop by. Bob Message: #5971, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Thu, Jul 28, 1994 3:15:23 AM Subject: #5721-Catch a Gray ? From: Dean Miller 75110,3417 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 Hi Bob, A lot of the messages may have scrolled off the forum. Cassandra hasn't been around for a while. Dean Message: #5936, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Wed, Jul 27, 1994 11:03:19 PM Subject: #5913-Catch a Gray ? From: Robert Clifford 70004,3355 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #5963 (1 reply) Not to be an ass, but is your friend, Angelfish, okay? I mean, not schizophrenic? No jokes, or prodding. Robert Message: #5963, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Thu, Jul 28, 1994 1:47:17 AM Subject: #5936-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Robert Clifford 70004,3355 Robert: No chance of illness that I'm aware of. Former congressional aid, currently a concert promoter. My exwife is a paranoid schiz, I have some experience with mental illness and, after 15 years, feel I have more than a handle on it. Bob Message: #5974, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Thu, Jul 28, 1994 4:34:03 AM Subject: #5913-Catch a Gray ? From: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 >The logic here indicates that a feature of the Nordic abduction scenario is to >alter time speeding up the natural functions of things within the >field. Related to abductions - it's conceivable they speed up your >body's natural time frame and hurry you up to the point you would >normally fall asleep. I don't doubt anything your saying here, but I don't understand how it is applied to the problem at hand? As a scientist I see immediate improvements and simplifications to your device, but I can't seem to engage you on the subject of the physical principles involved. Granted, your device is already simple, but it suffers from limitations from the singlular way you are thinking about it. I think that for a moderate price one of your Cages could be built around an entire house, if you used more suitable matterial to construct it from. I'm very disappointed that you didn't answer my really burning questions about your experience with the . You called them by a name I've never heard, how do they relate to the Pleideans, Arcturans and Sirians? To be straight up, I've never heard of the Nordics either, though I'm not nearly as interested in them (till I'm done training with the other side and am in a position to fight them). What you've been saying has had a deep impact on me however... My entire image of this is dramatically changed (though I can't explain why) by the fact that the demons look like us. Despite how many times I've heard this, its really hard to accept. Not until now did I realize how deeply I didn't accept it emotional, despite any intellectual acceptance... One thing I should have pointed out in my last posting, I'm not a raging bull anymore. Not to long ago, your appraisal would have been perfectly accurate, but my burnt out feelings have been substantially repaired. Despite the fact that I'm a little guy, and very much a gnetlman, I would unintentionally intimidate people all the time. I *never* get that kind of response now, I get spontaneous smiles now (especially from the pretty Ladies) instead of looks of fear. At any rate, don't project yourself onto me; yes, we are vey similiar but most of the reason why I speak of passed tense now. Bob, what do you plan to do? You seem to know whats happening here better than anyone else in this Rabbinical counsil, but it doesn't sound like you have any sort of plan, save to take care of yourself while the world goes down the tubes. Myke Message: #5946, S/3 Abductions Date: Wed, Jul 27, 1994 11:34:04 PM Subject: #5722-Catch a Gray ? From: George J. Chapman 74761,156 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #5962 (1 reply) Hi Bob, PMFJI >> We know, mathematically, that a jump into 4D requires the rotation of reality 90 degrees.<< This was stated in a book written on Edgar Cayce or maybe "Life and teachings of the masters". Either way, the so called "L's" , prior to the existence of *Atlantis*, did exactly what you stated, they shifted 90' into other dimensions. From that point on they were able to travel through many dimensions. Leaving behind a few, who ended up being the kings (god-men) of Atlantian and Greek lore. I am not stating the above as fact to be accepted by others, although, I believe it and offer it here as a possibility. Also as a support for your claim, through Cayce's information, for those that may need the conformation. See Ya, George J. Chapman AOL - GeorgeChap@aol.com July 27, 1994 Message: #5962, S/3 Abductions Date: Thu, Jul 28, 1994 1:47:12 AM Subject: #5946-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: George J. Chapman 74761,156 George: I can't speak to Casey but we know that dimensions are parallel and adjacent. To make the jump, you must bridge the gap. Your bridge must be ninety degrees to the plane of your dimension. The principle is simple, the doing is considerably harder. Your God-men of Green lore bear a strange resemblence to Nordics. If you draw a timeline between the historical accounts of interactive gods, you will find a serial trail from culture to culture. The Jews were monotheistic - so they supplied one god. Greeks and Roman were multitheistic - so you have a whole assortment of gods. Ditto for the Norse. If you start your timeline with the Norse, preflood, you will find a very interesting and consistent pattern of behavior. In my book, I used this pattern to contruct a psychological profile. The result was a picture of a people who do the same thing the same way ad naseum. This consistently allows behavioral projections that have held true all the way through the 20th century. For 10,000 years, the game has been the same without substantial change. Bob Message: #5977, S/12 General Discussions Date: Thu, Jul 28, 1994 5:18:23 AM Subject: Catch a Gray ? From: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 $h!t... I forgot how crazy I use to be... I just smashed the top off a glass from an instinctual urge to have a weapon and whirled around at my mother; she gave me a late night surprise in the kitchen just as a memory was surfacing that has been tiggered by this conversation... I haven't done anything like *that* in a long time. I feel very agitated... For once I'd really enjoy wrestling with a pile of my little brothers rambunctious friends... Message: #6004, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Thu, Jul 28, 1994 9:45:28 AM Subject: #5913-Catch a Gray ? From: Frank Turner 72540,736 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 I don't understand how time could be screwed with locally like that. Interesting that the breakers don't blow. It would be interesting to calculate the total amperage/kwatts used during those incidents. Could you get me the figures? Could be that a magnetic anomaly would screw with the electric meters rather than pull such enormous amounts of power, especially if the meter is digital. Any real surges of power should have done some damage to electrical appliances, tripped breakers, etc. Any EMP would set up some type of currents in any conducters facing the right way too. I wonder.......if a strong magnetic field could turn an AC motor and *not* affect the circuit breakers? Hmmmmm then again there are many reports of electrical disturbances such as the lights dimming on the Brooklyn Bridge and local neighborhood during a passing UFO. As far as I know there was no damage there either and everything came back on as soon as the disturbance left. Something is powerful enough to stop a current from flowing and yet not damage equipment. I haven't experimented enough yet in the field to really know how this happens, but I'd assume that it could be duplicated on a smaller scale in the lab..... put a magentic field near a small current and measure to see if there's any disturbances. Hmmmm there probably would be since there's already a mag field around any current to begin with. If this could be set up though, we could see what happens and then extrapolate to get an idea of the power needed to darken several city blocks. BTW, people on the bridge did in fact report their hair standing up - static electricity/magnetism, (I suppose) I'm running on again....just thinking out loud actually...... Message: #6062, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Thu, Jul 28, 1994 7:30:24 PM Subject: #5994-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Cassandra McDonough 76206,1741 Cassandra: Yes digit clocks blink if they're stopped. However, if I'm reading you correctly, you want to test the idea that you are an abudctee. There's a better way of doing it. Purchase a compass. Take a small circular magnet like the kind you stick notes onto your frig door with. Pick the spot near the interior wall of your bedroom where you sense they come in for you. Place the compass on a table in that area. The needle will point north. put the magnet on the east point of the compass. The magnet will tend to grab the needle. You want to balance it so the need stays to the north while the magnet is on the eastern point. What you are doing is establishing a weak magnetic link between the needle and the magnet. Any magnetic energy entering the room near the compass will cause the needle to spin. In my own case it picked up sufficient rps to throw the magnet about 2 inches away from the compass. The inverse of the logic is that the needle might spin, but when it stops it's going to be grabbed by the magnetics stronger field and your needle will be pointing in a direction other than north. Like I said, I tested this out in my own case and found there was reason to continue and build the cage. Bob Message: #6059, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Thu, Jul 28, 1994 7:30:07 PM Subject: #5974-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 Myke: I don't know what more I can say about the principals of operation than I have. You intercept the signal and ground it out. I agree wholeheartedly that it can be improved. For instance the dumbest thing people do when the encounter a ufo on the road - is get out of the car to look. If they stayed in the car - they'd stand a better chance. Unfortunately, the car isn't grounded so it's a matter for speculation. I think you have to consider different habitats. For instance, my condo bit the dust in the Northridge earthquake and I'm temporarily in an apt. You need one version for apts and another scenario for single family dwellings. Actually, the only need a safe room - the bedroom. Lining the walls with any decorative conductive metal would do the trick AND you don't have to do the whole room. Any angle in a straight line with the bed needs to be covered. They aren't sophisticated enough to shoot light beams around the corner. Bob Message: #6060, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Thu, Jul 28, 1994 7:30:15 PM Subject: #5974-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 Myke My apologies, I must have missed your question about the Nohsaimus. If you want a classic reference - angels - cousins - genetically related to us as are the progenators of the Nordics. I didn't really be involved with 'them'. They became involved with me. This occured after I had figured it all out, gotten the Nordics and Grays off my back AND conquered the attendant fear that went with it. Then they contacted me first thru a channel here on cis THEN the replicated the effort thru another source just to make sure I 'got it'. The the second source "Angelfish" started giving me correspondence that suggested I take a trip to a specific area of Colorado. I did. On the trip I found bones of questionable origin. Additionally, all of Angel's landmarks and pointers where exactly where she said they'd be. It's interesting to note that before she became involved with the Nohsaimus she has never been psychic or a channeler. This was a new experience for her and it blew her away she'd done it with such accuracy. I was sufficiently impressed I spent the money to haul my carcass up there. As to my plan. I do have a plan and it's specific. I intend to engage the enemy. When, where and how I intend to this is not a subject for conversation except the the extent that the time isn't right this minute. Also, you need to realize that people are at different stages of awakening. Many of the people coming through this forum are abductees looking for answers. As I derive no profit from my rantings, I count this as my good deed for the decade. I figured it out, others can to AND many can add to my work. We have a common enemy AND we're all in the same boat together. It's long past time we quit our petty squabbeling (mankind) and get down to work - together. Bob Message: #6066, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Thu, Jul 28, 1994 7:30:05 PM Subject: #6024-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Frank Turner 72540,736 Myke My Boy You Got It!! "These ET's might not be as advanced as they'd like us to think" BINGO! Once you become aware of an enemies limitation - you are now in a position to exploit them to your own benefit. Bob Message: #6064, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Thu, Jul 28, 1994 7:30:01 PM Subject: #6013-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 Myke Re: Terminology. It's funny, I tried to find someone who could tell me how to wire a Faraday Cage and was not successful. I did the next best thing and took some common sense and a little logic and muddled my way thru it. Sidebar: I did a home brew study of earthquakes some years ago an discovered the triggering mechanism for the quake. I also devised a theory I later discovered had been proffered by someone else a few years before, now call the Geo-Dynamic Theory. I happened to run into Buckminster Fuller a few months before his death and he was kind enough to give me an ear for a couple of hours while I doodled diagrams and numbers in front of him. At the end, he told me, "I think you've got it - but as you lack a degree in the subject matter - no one will listen". He was, of course, correct. Since that time I don't waste my time trying to preach or get anyone to believe anything. Nor do I cast pearls before swine. Those who have eyes and ears will get it and those that don't won't. It's no skin off my tail either way. I'm doing what I think is right and that's the beginning and end of it. This is not directed at you personally. Bob Message: #6063, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Thu, Jul 28, 1994 7:30:28 PM Subject: #6004-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Frank Turner 72540,736 Frank I'll be speaking to Angel tonight - I'll ask her for the numbers and will get back to you. It's the lack of a surge AND the differential between our time pieces that cause me to speculate that the ship's powersource alters local time. Further and element in a dimensional jump IS time. As the breakers didn't pop - the obvious is that there wasn't sufficient power AT ONE MOMENT IN TIME to cause them to trip. It isn't JUST the magnet field, it is the dimensional elements in the equation that cause the time dialations. The magnet field is simply the 3D vehicile we are viewing. Bob Message: #6065, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Thu, Jul 28, 1994 7:30:03 PM Subject: #6015-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 Cassandra There is no 'official' research into ufos because the government has declared that they do not represent a threat to the national security of the United States. This is true - they only threaten the citizens - not the government. Bob Message: #6058, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Thu, Jul 28, 1994 7:30:02 PM Subject: #5837-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Cassandra McDonough 76206,1741 Cassandra: Re: Clocks It all depends on the type of clock. An electric clock that depends on 60 hertz will usually go down. An old mechanical clock won't. This fact alone implies an electrical or electromagnetic relationship. Bob Message: #6057, S/3 Abductions Date: Thu, Jul 28, 1994 7:30:00 PM Subject: #5840-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Frank Turner 72540,736 Frank: The more sophisticated a technology gets, the easier it is to bugger. The elegant grace of the cage is it's simplicity. Grays don't walk in and cut wires. The overload circuits or short them out, they don't go in and hit switches. At least, in my experience they don't. Assuming a posture of turning off a light switch (for example) means they're going to have to drop the dimensional cover long enough to become solid enough to interact with the 3D substance. As this places them at risk of being seen and attacked - they don't do it. Bob Message: #6061, S/12 General Discussions Date: Thu, Jul 28, 1994 7:30:19 PM Subject: #5977-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 Myke: What is happening to you is relatively easy to understand if you can accept the idea of a collective subconscious human mind. In history we have many examples of people psychically connecting in times of great disaster or emergency. As we approach our rendevous with Armageddon, the mind of humanity, recognizing the danger on a subconscious level is reaching out to its other parts trying to connect and to deal with what is and is going to happen. Anger, once controlled, can be used productively as a dynamo. Uncontrolled, it is self destructive - at the least. I share your anger on this subject. However, I control it - not it me. Here is the focus point. You're on the right track. Search back in the memory banks and reconstruct Myke's truth to your own satisfaction. When you've done that you'll be ready to begin formulating a plan of action. Bob Message: #265999, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jul 28, 1994 9:41:17 PM Subject: #264322-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: CHRIS CROSBY (SCC) 72123,2154 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #266049 (1 reply) A question: You say Clinton is an abductee. Does he know this? Is he abducted often? Just wondering. Your pal and mine, ==CCC== Message: #266049, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jul 28, 1994 10:58:23 PM Subject: #265999-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: westbrook 71705,262 To: CHRIS CROSBY (SCC) 72123,2154 Chris: I have no way of knowing what Clinton knows. I can tell you this about some extremely wealthing and influential people, particularly in Hollywood. Yes, they do know. The made "The Deal". In return they promote a destructive liberal agenda. Furthermore, the meet at regular intervals on Gray ships in obe sessions. The affairs are 'festive'. One can not sell their sould to the devil. The soul belongs to God and is out on loan. One can sell their free will, however, to Nordics (The Devil) and, in so doing, lose that free will and be subject to a harsh and dictatorial rule. YOu know the deal, fame and fortune for.... They cater to every age old weakness inheriant in mankind. Clinton, and whether he knows or not is academic, is a willing pimp pandering their agenda knowing full well the catastrophic effects it will have on us and not caring. I will give you a rational prediction of intent here and there is evidence to the fact already. It is easier to destroy a business than it is to build one. If you can make money in the destruction, you have an incentive to do it for a quick buck. Construction takes much more time, patience and wise handling. The Liberal Democratic Party has individual financial incentives to destroy the health care and insurance industries. By selling short on their stocks, they can reap tremendous wind falls as has happened in the decline in value of tobacco stocks at the onset of smoker bashing. Hillary already got caught making a profit selling short on pharmaceutical stocks at the very time she was bashing the industry. Any, in depth investigation by an objective party will reveal a pattern of trading by individuals related to those doing the actual bashing. Will there be any investigation, no. The liberal press, not only hides and conceals these things from the public but on occassion will actually lie to promote the images they want seen regardless of the amount of truth in their representations. The only group in the United States that has a screening process for abductees is certain groupings in the military. Everyone else is more or less fair game. Bob Message: #6075, S/3 Abductions Date: Thu, Jul 28, 1994 9:32:17 PM Subject: #5439-LA Blasted Dream From: Chris Malcheski 71232,360 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #6098 (1 reply) Bob, If you were to survive an all-out nuke war, getting around via motorcycle might not be so far fetched then. If for no other reason than the added mobility and the extra gas mileage -- gas would be in very short supply. -- Chris Message: #6098, S/3 Abductions Date: Thu, Jul 28, 1994 10:59:27 PM Subject: #6075-LA Blasted Dream From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Chris Malcheski 71232,360 Chris: I noted that fact myself. Not too happy about it either. Bob Message: #6078, S/3 Abductions Date: Thu, Jul 28, 1994 9:38:18 PM Subject: #5962-Catch a Gray ? From: George J. Chapman 74761,156 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #6097 (1 reply) Hi Bob, The 90' shift would appear to more of a consciousness shift, thereby enabling the physical to follow. This is of course, a personal opinion. BTW, I have been reading some of your posts about the shield that you developed. The idea of absorbing energy is similar to the *aura of protection* placed around an individual (entity). Since we live in a physical world, the use of a mechanical method of protection may stimulate and reinforce the consciousness of the individual, to place a aura of protection around themselves. What I am eluding to is that it is not necessarily the composites of the material nor the form that it takes, but the act of protecting oneself that is important. Yes, it is true, most individuals at first, need a prop or paraphernalia to create the necessary state of consciousness, even for their own protection. Possibly you may find you have developed a sense (aura) of self-protection that eliminates the need for props. This post in no way detracts from what you have been advocating, individuals protecting themselves from abduction, instead it asks for you to delve into an additional area. Maybe a second book? See Ya, George J. Chapman AOL - GeorgeChap@aol.com July 28, 1994 Message: #6097, S/3 Abductions Date: Thu, Jul 28, 1994 10:59:25 PM Subject: #6078-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: George J. Chapman 74761,156 George: I can appreciate the metaphysical aspects you are suggesting in your post. I would suggest some perspective. Ask yourself, If you throw your arms in front of you to protect yourself from a runaway bus, will your belief protect you from being squashed? Obviously not. The logic of your theory is based upon the assumption that you are dealing with spirtual forces. If, on the other hand, you're dealing with technology, SQUASH! Apples and oranges. The point in ufo interactions that many people confuse is the mental aspect. First you have layers of defense mechanism called the subconscious. When it sees something it knows you can't handle, it throws up imagery related to the subject but less threatening. Also, certain obe's with Nordics etc. can produce the feeling of a spiritual or supernatural quality. Also, this imagery is frequently generated by the alien himself to mislead and misdirect you. The shield works because, even though a primitive technology, it is matched up against technology. My belief's never stopped them in the past nor do I expect them to in the future. There is an exception. OBE's result in the projection of ourselves into the 4D Nordic environment. In that state, we can not be hurt or manipulated - so it is a safe vehicle for interaction. However, one should leave their carcass in the shield. You are correct on another count. Angelfish reports that her caged seemed to enhance her abilities to focus her mind and do things that she had not done before. There may be some substance to your idea. I, on the other hand, have not had this experience - but qualify it by stating my head is quite dense and not easily gotten through. Bob Message: #266056, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Jul 28, 1994 11:15:03 PM Subject: #266049-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: Brian Reed 71333,2360 To: westbrook 71705,262 Bob, You sound like a conservative Republican with an agenda of his own. Just an observation. Message: #266113, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jul 29, 1994 2:40:00 AM Subject: #266056-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Brian Reed 71333,2360 Brian: No not a Republican or a Democrat. Winston Churchill was once quoted as saying, "If in your 20's you aren't liberal, you have no heart. If in your 30's your aren't conservative, you have no brains." I have no political agenda and have no need to waste time on a system that is going to collapse no matter what I do or don't do. Instead, I'd rather focus on that which is salvagable - people. Not just any people. I have no use for those that don't take responsibility for their own actions. Nor for those who won't work. Nor for those who think the world owes them a living etc. etc. etc. doo dah doo dah dayyyyyyyy. The liberal agenda demands victims - I won't be anyone's victim. The conservative ticket demands responsibility. Victims are never responsible because "Someone else did it to me - IT'S NOT MY FAULT". The Victimization of America over the last 50 years of social fraud has produced a system wherein the non-producing victims out breed the producers (tax base) at a rate of 4 to 1. In a system where he who screws the most gets all the votes, the non producers end up with most the power and vote away the rights of those who do produce the wealth the jobs and the tax base. Such a system will decay and fall in on itself and the lesson has been taught in history many times. This is nothing new. My agenda? Survival! Bob Message: #6145, S/12 General Discussions Date: Fri, Jul 29, 1994 4:39:19 AM Subject: #6061-Catch a Gray ? From: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 >Actually, the only need a safe room - the bedroom. Lining the walls >with any decorative conductive metal would do the trick AND you don't Yea, that was next on my list to mention. >have to do the whole room. Any angle in a straight line with the bed >needs to be covered. They aren't sophisticated enough to shoot light beams >around the corner. I don't understand this? Seems to me, you'd have to do all the walls and the ceiling, and if the room has a big window to the outside then you could use Venician blinds! >I don't know what more I can say about the principals of operation than I >have. You intercept the signal and ground it out. You seem to be opening up your design to the general prinicples involved now, but I'm still concerned about the language you use. You know your reputation preceded you here on this forum as a person to take with a grain of salt. You have proven to me that you have a far deeper understanding than anyone else posting here (beside myself!) I'm sure people don't have the greatest opinion of me, but they *do* know they'd better use solid arguments against me or I will reverse engineer their argument and publicly display the garbage I uncover. >The the second source "Angelfish" started giving me correspondence that >suggested I take a trip to a specific area of Colorado. I did. On the >trip I found bones of questionable origin. Additionally, all of Angel's >landmarks and pointers where exactly where she said they'd be. It's >interesting to note that before she became involved with the Nohsaimus >she has never been psychic or a channeler. This was a new experience for her >and it blew her away she'd done it with such accuracy. I was sufficiently >impressed I spent the money to haul my carcass up there. Sounds like they are definitely helping the two of you against the Nordics, so I can't understand your ambivolence towards them? Have you or her actually met them? How do you know their name? Do you know where they come from? Do you know how they relate to the Pleadians, Acturans and Sirians? Do they contact you and Angel on a regular basis? Can you contact them? >As to my plan. I do have a plan and it's specific. I intend to engage the >enemy. When, where and how I intend to this is not a subject for conversation >except the the extent that the time isn't right this minute. You are going to save the world? You couldn't possibly have any significant effect all by yourself, at least not in the damaged state you are in (as compared to our natural state, which is almost unknown on this planet, but is very much God like). >It's long past time we quit our petty squabbeling (mankind) and get down to >work - together. It ain't gonna happen. The phoenix will rise from the ashes after this world goes to hell, and it will take everything we have and all the help we can get to make that phoenix rise. |Myke My Boy | |You Got It!! | |"These ET's might not be as advanced as they'd like us to think" | |BINGO! Sorry, that wasn't me, that was Frank, and I don't buy it. Did you catch my messages to Sandy Lawson about aliens being undead? >As we approach our rendevous with Armageddon, the mind of humanity, >recognizing the danger on a subconscious level is reaching out to >its other parts trying to connect and to deal with what is and is going >to happen. There is a lot more to the mind than just the conscious and sub-conscious, and the part dealing with group connections isn't the subconcious, but thats a whole nother topic; otherwise, I completely agree. >Anger, once controlled, can be used productively as a dynamo. Uncontrolled, it >is self destructive - at the least. The Angels teach ahimsa - non-violence. This is not "peace man (Y)", and turn the other check, non-violence is an active stance (Gandi / MLK) and caused the greatest human empire history has known to collapse, the British Empire. I am fierce from compassion, not anger. I am no longer personally a victim, in fact, with the help of the angels, my cronic disease and insanity from constant physical pain and emotional scars are rapidly disappearing. I was cronically ill with intestinal cramps (exactly like Kurt Cobain, Nirvana lead singer who killed himself primarily, so he claimed, from this same aliment I suffered with so long), and I was born with a curved spine. Not until it began to straighten did I discover how much pain I had been living with all my life, and I might add, this is a medical impossibility. I have always been told that my condition was absolutely perminent by doctors. The amount of sleep I require has been cut in half (from 12 down to 6 hours) as a result of my freedom from physical pain. Emotionally, my sexual self image was so incredibly damage that I had absolutely no idea how attractive I am to women, despite having large numbers of both sexs make passes at me over the years. I always thought their appearance of being frightened was due to violence inside me, and their fear of being hit on by what I thought were so many crude men. It turns out, they weren't the slightest bit afraid of me physically (I'm a little guy, and as gentle as I can be with women), if they were afraid of anything, it was loosing control! I would react boyishly, thinking that would ease their fear, but that would only make them want me more! Eventually, they would start treating me like shit because I never hit on them, but that would only convince me that I failed not to frighten them! The Angels restored my sexuality and self- confidence, just by flirting with me. I flirted with thousand of women before, it was the only way I could get the attention I needed since my scared emotional innerself made any type of relationship impossible, but it never made the slightest improvement to my self-image. Now, I can *FEEL* how women are effected by me, I don't have to wonder. >I share your anger on this subject. However, I control it - not it me. Here is >the focus point. Anger works great to keep you protected from aliens as an individual, the Angels tell me that it served me well, but is no longer useful. If you are angry at someone, you will end up attracting them. My friends who are outraged at police activety end up getting themselves hassled by the police all the time while they let me pass without so much as a question. I don't know what you mean by controlling anger; if present, anger controls you, just as, if present, love controls you. The thought of controling love puts your statement in contrast, obviously such a thing could not really be love. Same-same, being in control, and it isn't anger any more. Message: #6166, S/3 Abductions Date: Fri, Jul 29, 1994 10:03:15 AM Subject: #6057-Catch a Gray ? From: Frank Turner 72540,736 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 Again my simple argument is that if video cameras are being shut off, why can't the ground connecection be interrupted? It doesn't make sense.... Message: #6184, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Fri, Jul 29, 1994 11:20:09 AM Subject: #6062-Catch a Gray ? From: Cassandra McDonough 76206,1741 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 >if I'm reading you correctly, you want to test the idea that you are an >abudctee No, I just know many people who are, and I'd love to find a way to help document the phenomenon so that main stream science will have something to sink their collective teeth into. I have no personal stake in it whatsoever. Message: #6186, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Fri, Jul 29, 1994 11:20:21 AM Subject: #6065-Catch a Gray ? From: Cassandra McDonough 76206,1741 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 >There is no 'official' research into ufos I know, and that's really a shame. There are some really good, open-minded, well-qualified scientists out there, but they have to make a living, and if there's no money for grants, then they can rarely pursue their own interests. Scientists don't have as much free choice in experimentation as some people might believe. Message: #6183, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Fri, Jul 29, 1994 11:20:03 AM Subject: #6058-Catch a Gray ? From: Cassandra McDonough 76206,1741 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 >An old mechanical clock won't Those are based on winding the clocks, aren't they? Just thinking aloud- there's no battery or electricity involved, correct? So if abductees could set up a situation where a mechanical clock was next to a digital clock, and then somehow record the whole abduction, including the clock stoppage, then there'd be something to go on. But video taping doesn't work from what I understand, so all in all, documentation of any of this is problematical. I suppose that people have tried setting up hidden security cameras and failed (?) to get any pictures or video. This is a very difficult problem. Message: #6173, S/12 General Discussions Date: Fri, Jul 29, 1994 10:36:23 AM Subject: #6061-Catch a Gray ? From: Quint Anapolis 71426,1053 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 Bob: Collective subconcious? Rendevous with Armageddon? Mind of humanity?? (Hehe... that last one cracks me up) It looks like you've been doing some 'truth reconscrution' of your own there, Bob. Quint Message: #266309, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jul 29, 1994 3:41:19 PM Subject: #266049-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: CHRIS CROSBY (SCC) 72123,2154 To: westbrook 71705,262 The only thing is, I find it a little hard to believe that all of the people you say know about them (and actually visit the Grey ships for festive events) do actually know about them. Having seen a disk-shaped aircraft that did things I could not explain, I do believe that aliens are visiting our planet. But I would think that the smartest thing the government would do would be to keep the knowledge of this a secret, and not let so many people know about it, as you say they have. Especially people in Hollywood. It just seems a little wacky to me. Chris Crosby, SCC Message: #266367, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jul 29, 1994 6:09:12 PM Subject: #266309-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: westbrook 71705,262 To: CHRIS CROSBY (SCC) 72123,2154 Chris Crosby: Your logic assumes that the government has any control over what people know. Since 1945 they have had control by official debunking. However, as use of the personal computer and other forms of communications have gotten better, the ability of the individual to communicate with others has gotten to the point that this is no longer practical. Ergo, gov has nothing to say on the subject anymore. As far as keeping secrets, they do and they should. I'd point out that the abductors don't go to government for their supply of victims. They take their own. That means that the abductee is in a position to have contacts the government doesn't have. It follows that the individual has greater access to the subject matter - IF he is able to exploit that access. My point here is that your post did not have a sound premise. As to beliefs - I can't help you in that area, it's a matter of personal choice. Bob Message: #6228, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Fri, Jul 29, 1994 5:55:22 PM Subject: #6184-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Cassandra McDonough 76206,1741 Cassandra: Re: Main Stream Science Has a profound disincentive for doing any kind of research. Their funding grants will evaporate the second they do. Bob Message: #6227, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Fri, Jul 29, 1994 5:55:19 PM Subject: #6183-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Cassandra McDonough 76206,1741 Cassandra: Correct, the old mechanical clocks work on a tightened coil of metal and isn't electric. You are also right in that the means exist to build switches that can trigger other recording devices. It would be nice if someone with the skills would do it. Before you ask, I was born with 10 thumbs and while not particularly hard - I suffered thru putting up the cage. I'm not certain that video taping doesn't work but will concede I have no info one way or the other. It is interesting that people have put notes in their bedclothes (to the abductors). In one instance I was told of, the person did not wake up with the note on - but it did come back a couple of months later. In my own case I taped a slip of paper to my backside with a duel message. Kiss here ---- > and 'Remember, I AM going to kill you'. The note was in my shorts but not taped on when I woke up. Bob Message: #6225, S/3 Abductions Date: Fri, Jul 29, 1994 5:55:10 PM Subject: #6166-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Frank Turner 72540,736 Frank: I've never mentioned video cameras. Bob Message: #6224, S/12 General Discussions Date: Fri, Jul 29, 1994 5:55:09 PM Subject: #6145-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 Myke: It's a question of geometry. You're right - the ceiling is a must. The spacing between the slats of the cage should be so that none is large enough for your body to go thru without hitting one of the wires, approximately 3 ft x 4 ft should do - at the surface of the bed. Right angles are the key here. They have to shoot the 4D (blue) dimensional doorway off of a 3 dimensional wall. Our construction techniques produce rectangular rooms. My experience is that the doorway usually opens in a wall or closet down towards the foot of the bed. Then the tractor beam levitates you off the bed and thru the door. The abduction technique is prevalent in densely populated areas. However, in rural areas where you don't have neighbors sharing your life, they will use an exterior wall. The 4D beam produces a visible blue light. My point is that you compute the necessities for the shield based upon the location of walls relative to your bed. If a beam coming in does not cross paths with the bed, it doesn't need shielding. Also, if you wanted to decorate it up a bit, you could use beads on a thin metal wire etc. There are a lot of ways to do it. It all depends on how much work you want to put into it. Me, I'm lazy. Re: Reputation. I've said this others many times but it bears repeating. I'm not selling and no one has to buy. Those looking to believe in something should go to a church. Those who are abductees and 'know' or 'suspect' are the ones I'm talking to. Locked in their own minds, they already know the truth and just need a little help getting it to the surface. I'm going to work my business, pay my bills and continuing living regardless of what anyone thinks. However, that you for the kind thoughts on credibility. If what I say can't stand in the light of day for scrutiny, there is no point saying it in the first place. Re: Nordics. 1. These people are sociopaths AND they lie. So if you ask them the meaning of life - you're going to get bullsh*t as a response. I don't take bs seriously. 2. I have no ambiviolence towards them. I know them, they know me and our positions are staked out in stone. 3. All abductees will meet them sooner or later in an abduction. I 'met' them in broad daylight while hiking. They weren't expecting to be 'met'. 4. Yes, I have several ways of sending messages up the wire. One is through abductees. I send message and the answer comes back thru a different source. Or I can use Angelfish when she's willing. Re: Saving the World I'm not the Messiah and wouldn't apply as job prospects historically tend to be rather poor and short lived. I'm one man who will join with other men. You're right though, we must have help. And it will be forthcoming from two sources. First, The Nohsaimus and secondly dissadent elements within the Nordic Empire. There is a palace revolt in progress and certain factions realize that we are a source of help. Therefore, a common enemy will bring forth marriages of convenience. For us, we will get the technological means to do battle, for them, they get a ready made army willing to engage. The predictions of Armaggedon - if you work them out logically and cross reference to other cultural sources say essentially this. Of the little more than 5 billion people alive on this planet, 1 billion will be taken by the Nohsaimus and relocated to other worlds out of reach of the Nordics. 3.2 billion will be consumed when the Nordics harvest the ranch. Roughly 1 billion will be saved when those taken by the Noshaimus return, in force, with the dissadent Nordics, hybrids etc. to destroy the Nordic machine. Re: Philosophy of Anger. Philosophical points of view are like politics and religion - personal. Of myself I would say I inspire people to extremes - you either love me or hate me - there doesn't seem to be a middle ground. Bob Message: #6226, S/12 General Discussions Date: Fri, Jul 29, 1994 5:55:15 PM Subject: #6173-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Quint Anapolis 71426,1053 Quint: Apparently I have a better image of humanity that you do. During the Northridge earthquake when power, phones, water etc were off line, people hurt and things in a pretty scarey state. I saw neighbors who had never spoken to each other offering the help each other. Where my kid lives all the people on the block (many of whom had lived for years without speaking to each other) took all the kids and put them in a van in the middle of the block away from houses, poles trees etc. so they'd have a safe place while the grownups worked on getting the gas mains shut off. There was NOT the rabid looting etc you'd expect to surface in such a disaster. The extreme nature of the emergency caused people to connect for the common good. As a private investigator, I am more aware than most of humanity's vagaries and not inclined towards Polyannaish views. My point of view is (I feel) pragmatic and realistic. Bob Message: #6241, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Fri, Jul 29, 1994 9:05:08 PM Subject: #6227-Catch a Gray ? From: Michael Lee Finney 71573,1075 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 PMJI here Bob., Notes to the abductors pinned on your tush? You kinky thing you. Perhaps some of the more defiant abductees might want to get offensive tattoos done, with slogans like "DIE ALIEN SCUM!" Or whatever floats their boat. Barb Message: #266476, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jul 29, 1994 11:19:26 PM Subject: #266113-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: PJ 73363,1075 To: westbrook 71705,262 << Winston Churchill was once quoted as saying, "If in your 20's you aren't liberal, you have no heart. If in your 30's your aren't conservative, you have no brains." >> Winston's actual quote was: A young man who is not a liberal has no heart. An old man who is not a conservative has no brain. Message: #266477, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Jul 29, 1994 11:19:28 PM Subject: #266113-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: PJ 73363,1075 To: westbrook 71705,262 Hey Bob, your political stuff reminds me, have you ever heard of Neo-Tech? Quasi anarchist american paranoids operating out of Nevada. But they sure do seem to agree with you. PJ <--- who is a FLAMING capitalist conservative herself Message: #266512, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Jul 30, 1994 12:06:11 AM Subject: #266367-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: CHRIS CROSBY (SCC) 72123,2154 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Yes, but if they just take whatever people they want, what's the reason for having shindigs on alien spacecraft and inviting powerful people? Your most recent post seems to contradict the first one I replied to. Of course, I might just not get it. Chris Crosby, SCC Message: #266514, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Jul 30, 1994 12:11:00 AM Subject: #266367-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: CHRIS CROSBY (SCC) 72123,2154 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #266552 (1 reply) Okay, you say that no humans or group of humans (i.e. the government) have control over the greys, nordics, ect, right? If that's so, why do the aliens even bother to communicate and invite powerful people to parties on their spaceships? It doesn't make very much since, even by alien logic. Chris Crosby, SCC Message: #266552, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Jul 30, 1994 1:01:06 AM Subject: #266514-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: westbrook 71705,262 To: CHRIS CROSBY (SCC) 72123,2154 Reply: #266697 (1 reply) Chris: It makes a lot of sense if you stop and think about it. 1. There are reams of evidence that abductees are given suggestions that they later follow. Ie: programmed. 2. It follows, logically, that if this ability exists, our ufo types could exert influence over elements that would promote conditions the consider desireable. 3. Furthermore, they could manipulate peoples and events to their own ends. In my book, I give numerous examples of this, the results and plenty of historical foundation to prove the premise. 4. In our society, you have 2 major elements that control what happens in the United States, the media (in all forms) and politicians. Both are of a liberal bent and have controlled most of the doings in the U.S. for the last 50 years. 5. If you wish to see the product of liberal rule, you have only to read the Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire. The corruption and decadence we are currently experiencing, as well as the general feeling of impotence and hopelessness, is nothing new. 6. The principles that founded this country are no longer operative. Liberalism creates dependancy and destroys the incentive to achieve. It rewards non productivity and eventually destroys countries and civilizations. 7. The Nordics are, and have been for 10,000 years, the prime beneficiaries of chaos. Every 700 years we have a version of the Black Plague that have wiped out over 100 million on two occasions. Is it odd that we have new killer viruses coming out of no where at this particular moment in time? I think not. The Nordics promote their own agenda and have demonstrated a solid historical ability to manipulate peoples and governments. All of this can be found and reasoned from only two sources. The Bible and an Encylopedia. The rest can be assembled with logic and reason. I will point out one vital point lest the liberal whiners of the forum find reasons to justify their ineptitude. To be manipulated, one must agree to do what they know to be wrong. No human being that adheres to the principles of civilized behavior can be directed into any Nordic related destructive activity. It is a question of free will. However, as a matter of historical fact, there are always those who can be bought but you can't cheat an honest man. Does it make more sense now? Bob Message: #266697, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Jul 30, 1994 9:49:16 AM Subject: #266552-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: Neil Shapiro/Wizop 76703,401 To: westbrook 71705,262 Uh, I'm just curious how you equate liberalism today to the Roman Empire of the first through fourth centuries? I have studied that period of History and this is the first time I have seen that take on it. (I don't wanna get into an argument as to if liberalism is "good" but am just curious how you see that operating in those times), -- Neil Message: #6295, S/13 Show Feedback Date: Sat, Jul 30, 1994 2:35:25 AM Subject: Gray's Beams From: Robert L. Anello 73144,1445 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 Bob, In your opinion, are the energy beams which are used to: a) Open the doorway, b) immobilize the abductee, and c) transport the abductee, one in the same beam or separate beams? Some abductees remember blue light beams, some remember their bedrooms being "flooded" with white light immediately after a "flash", and some remember both blue and white light in their experiences. I'm inclined to believe that immobilization and transport are two separate steps that do not occur simultaneously and require two distinct types of energy _beams_ but not necessarily two different types of energy. (both use EM energy) What's your opinion? Bob Message: #6341, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Sat, Jul 30, 1994 1:24:18 PM Subject: #6227-Catch a Gray ? From: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 >Re: Nordics. > >1. These people are sociopaths AND they lie. So if you ask them the I didn't ask about the Nordics at all, I asked exclusively about the Nohsaimus. Why would you get that confused, what would make you think I want to ask the Nordics *ANYTHING*?! They are not people, they are undead demons; they may look human, but they have no soul. They copy the contents of their brains from one body to the next; the conscious mind computer gets copied (along with the subconscious), but the soul is lost, its not in the brain to be copied. This is the part of you that does the real thinking, the part of you that loves. The conscious mind is good for brushing your teeth and driving the car, but it doesn't really think, it just runs through data like a computer. It thinks its thinking, but its really just running over the same data over and over, like a train spinning in circles around the same track. Real thinking and intelligence come from the higher mind. As such, without a higher mind, they are just high IQ automations, but worse than just a Terminater nightmare; they aren't just heartless robots, they are aligned with the dark side of the Force. They are themselves creatures of darkness. >Re: Saving the World > >I'm not the Messiah and wouldn't apply as job prospects historically tend to >be rather poor and short lived. . . . >The predictions of Armaggedon - if you work them out logically and >cross reference to other cultural sources say essentially this. Doesn't look like that changes the prospects too much on longevity these days. >I'm one man who will join with other men. You're right though, we must have >help. And it will be forthcoming from two sources. First, The Nohsaimus >and secondly dissadent elements within the Nordic Empire. There is >a palace revolt in progress and certain factions realize that we are >a source of help. Therefore, a common enemy will bring forth marriages >of convenience. For us, we will get the technological means to do battle, >for them, they get a ready made army willing to engage. >Of the little more than 5 billion people alive on this planet, 1 billion >will be taken by the Nohsaimus and relocated to other worlds out of >reach of the Nordics. 3.2 billion will be consumed when the Nordics >harvest the ranch. Roughly 1 billion will be saved when those taken >by the Nohsaimus return, in force, with the dissadent Nordics, hybrids >etc. to destroy the Nordic machine. Destroying the Nordic machine sounds *pretty* ambitious to me, I would be overjoyed just to kick them off of this hicksville little poe-dunk backwater dirt ball that we call home, but even that hangs in balance. Is this information from the Nohsaimus themselves? Was it channeled by Angel? You haven't given me any foundation upon which to work with this information - though it sounds very familiar to what I have been taught by the Angelic Extraterrestials, it also sounds *full* of the sort of distorting interpretations that the young students invariably add. Also, contrary to the tone of your previous messages this, this sounds *awfully* passive for you, just sitting around in your cage, waiting for the rescue mission... What happened to 'wiping your own butt'? >Re: Philosophy of Anger. > >Philosophical points of view are like politics and religion - personal. >Of myself I would say I inspire people to extremes - you either love me >or hate me - there doesn't seem to be a middle ground. I was using an abstract to try and explain myself, but I'm not describing an abstract philosophy, I am describing a state of mind I am coming into and which the Angels live in. Angels are fierce, but they do not act out of anger or *any* personal motive, they act out of love and compassion. Is a mother scolding her child for crossing the street without looking angry? I'm no Saint yet, but you definitely mistake my fierce pragmatism for personal, animalistic anger. I am no longer at War within myself, nor an emotional leaf in the wind sent flying with each external influence; I have a center now, a rock hard emotional stable core, which does not get caught up in all of the meaningless Soap Operas. Since you so easily get Angels confused with demons in conversation, and have the demons confused with us in your mind, it would seem to me that the demons have had a much deeper impact on you than you have realized. Message: #6329, S/3 Abductions Date: Sat, Jul 30, 1994 11:41:25 AM Subject: #6097-Catch a Gray ? From: George J. Chapman 74761,156 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 Hi Bob, >>I can appreciate the metaphysical aspects you are suggesting in your post. I would suggest some perspective. Ask yourself, If you throw your arms in front of you to protect yourself from a runaway bus, will your belief protect you from being squashed? Obviously not. The logic of your theory is based upon the assumption that you are dealing with spiritual forces. If, on the other hand, you're dealing with technology, SQUASH! Apples and oranges.<< Let me clarify where I am coming from. The metaphysical aspects that were placed forth in my previous message relate to the *4D Nordic environment* as implied by you; a non-physical (3D physical), but not necessarily spiritual environment. Now if I misunderstood you, and they are physical, a gun would suffice. OTOH, if they are a composite of physical and metaphysical (incorporeal) energies, then it would seem advantageous to refute their demands on many levels. My suggestion to remove oneself from full dependence on any particular physical shield is based upon two premises- to live any kind of life one must leave the shielded area - all attacks or abductions do not happen at night. The first premise is a given. The second, if wrong, points more to a non-physical attack or abduction (OBE) and only adds to the concept of a *reinforced consciousness* to combat the unwelcome entities. >>Angelfish reports that her caged seemed to enhance her abilities to focus her mind and do things that she had not done before. << This effect is not unlike the ones felt by people who experimented with the *metal pyramid* hung over their bed in the early 1980's. Replacing the metal with *string* attached to the ceiling and tied to the four corners of the bed produced the same effect. Eventually, some realized the visualization of the shape, of the pyramid, had the same effect. It would seem, if only the technological aspect were true, then those persons living in a metal enclosed mobile home would be immune to any attack, abduction or coercion from the *4D Nordic environment*. See Ya, George J. Chapman CompuServe - 74761,156 July 30, 1994 Message: #6335, S/12 General Discussions Date: Sat, Jul 30, 1994 1:13:27 PM Subject: #6224-Catch a Gray ? From: Larry W. Varney/KY 73563,61 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 I've bee reading this thread, and I'm lost concerning some of the characters. Who is Nohsaimus? What are the Nordics? The Grays? UB's? Thanks, Larry Message: #6357, S/12 General Discussions Date: Sat, Jul 30, 1994 3:06:26 PM Subject: #6224-Catch a Gray ? From: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 >Re: Nordics. > >1. These people are sociopaths AND they lie. So if you ask them the I didn't ask about the Nordics at all, I asked exclusively about the Nohsaimus. Why would you get that confused, what would make you think I want to ask the Nordics *ANYTHING*?! They are not people, they are undead demons; they may look human, but they have no soul. They copy the contents of their brains from one body to the next; the conscious mind computer gets copied (along with the subconscious), but the soul is lost, its not in the brain to be copied. This is the part of you that does the real thinking, the part of you that loves. The conscious mind is good for brushing your teeth and driving the car, but it doesn't really think, it just runs through data like a computer. It thinks its thinking, but its really just running over the same data over and over, like a train spinning in circles around the same track. Real thinking and intelligence come from the higher mind. As such, without a higher mind, they are just high IQ automations, but worse than just a Terminater nightmare; they aren't just heartless robots, they are aligned with the dark side of the Force. They are themselves creatures of darkness. >Re: Saving the World > >I'm not the Messiah and wouldn't apply as job prospects historically tend to >be rather poor and short lived. . . . >The predictions of Armaggedon - if you work them out logically and >cross reference to other cultural sources say essentially this. Doesn't look like that changes the prospects too much on longevity these days. >I'm one man who will join with other men. You're right though, we must have >help. And it will be forthcoming from two sources. First, The Nohsaimus >and secondly dissadent elements within the Nordic Empire. There is >a palace revolt in progress and certain factions realize that we are >a source of help. Therefore, a common enemy will bring forth marriages >of convenience. For us, we will get the technological means to do battle, >for them, they get a ready made army willing to engage. >Of the little more than 5 billion people alive on this planet, 1 billion >will be taken by the Nohsaimus and relocated to other worlds out of >reach of the Nordics. 3.2 billion will be consumed when the Nordics >harvest the ranch. Roughly 1 billion will be saved when those taken >by the Nohsaimus return, in force, with the dissadent Nordics, hybrids >etc. to destroy the Nordic machine. Destroying the Nordic machine sounds *pretty* ambitious to me, I would be overjoyed just to kick them off of this hicksville little poe-dunk backwater dirt ball that we call home, but even that hangs in balance. Is this information from the Nohsaimus themselves? Was it channeled by Angel? You haven't given me any foundation upon which to work with this information - though it sounds very familiar to what I have been taught by the Angelic Extraterrestials, at least in terms of the mission of rescue. But, contrary to the tone of your previous messages this, sounds *awfully* passive for you, just sitting around in your cages, waiting for the Rapture? What happened to 'wiping your own butt'? And I'm utterly dubious about any kind of deal with the dark side, that sounds to me like a lie straight from the dark side. >Re: Philosophy of Anger. > >Philosophical points of view are like politics and religion - personal. >Of myself I would say I inspire people to extremes - you either love me >or hate me - there doesn't seem to be a middle ground. I was using an abstract to try and explain myself, but I'm not describing an abstract philosophy, I am describing a state of mind I am coming into and which the Angels live in. Angels are fierce, but they do not act out of anger or *any* personal motive, they act out of love and compassion. Is a mother scolding her child for crossing the street without looking angry? I'm no Saint yet, but you definitely mistake my fierce pragmatism for personal, animalistic anger. I am no longer at War within myself, nor an emotional leaf in the wind sent flying with each external influence; I have a center now, a rock hard emotional stable core, which does not get caught up in all of the meaningless Soap Operas. Since you so easily get Angels confused with demons in conversation, and have the demons confused with us in your mind, it would seem to me that the demons have had a much deeper impact on you than you have realized. Message: #266953, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Jul 30, 1994 7:45:18 PM Subject: #266697-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Neil Shapiro/Wizop 76703,401 Neil: The Roman Empire, during its conservative era - conquered most of the known world AND managed it as well. The kept all of the diverse factions in line - one way or another. During the last days of the culture, the leaders of the empire focused on their own self engrandizement to the detriment of the country. The considered, "What's in it for me" first and their trust to the populus as an afterthought, if at all. When this standard became the norm, you would be hard pressed to find many who would consider the public good first. One of the areas attacked in the Roman liberal era was the military. When weakened those waiting to revolt found a defending force decimated by cut backs and/or policitical considerations. Result - the empire began to shrink. Did this inspire those in power to return to the days when things did work? Nope - they continue with the finger pointing and blame and kept lining their pockets. Eventually, the empire collapsed. Socially, the decadence of the Christians and lions and the blood lust of a bored society willing to go to any extreme for a thrill points to some very basic liberal policies and many many direct colloraries can be found in American society of the last 40 years. In very simple terms, the difference between liberal and conservative is this. To the liberal - the part is greater than the whole. Emphasis is placed on the 'me' and not the 'our' to such a degree we will no longer have an 'us', just a collection of individual groups all fighting with each other for dinner scraps. To the Consevative - the whole is greater than the part, but there is recognition that the well being of the part contributes to the well being of the whole. Bob Message: #266914, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Jul 30, 1994 5:16:19 PM Subject: #266552-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: CHRIS CROSBY (SCC) 72123,2154 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #266951 (1 reply) Yeah, a little bit, but it still seems a little wacky to me that they're inviting Bill and Hillary on alien spaceships for a little shindig. If you're telling the truth, then maybe most of the stuff in the tabloids are fact. Another thing: Why is there never any mention of the nordics in any UFO/alien abduction literature and/or television specials? You seem to be the only one who even mentions these nordics. Yet Another Thing: The night before last the security lights in the backyard started to go on and off (about once every three seconds) and the fan went on, but no one turned it on. I started to feel a little sleepy, but I was scared I was going to be abducted or something so I tried my hardest to stay awake, while I continued to look at my watch making sure there wasn't any missing time. I stayed up until morning (it was 3:36am when the things started happening), and found that no time was missing. Is it possible to ward off abductions with your mind? I don't have a shield or anything like that. Chris Crosby, SCC Chris Crosby, SCC Message: #266951, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Jul 30, 1994 7:45:08 PM Subject: #266914-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: westbrook 71705,262 To: CHRIS CROSBY (SCC) 72123,2154 Chris: If you're going to quote me, please don't take me out of context. I didn't say Bill and (Heil) Hillary were being taken on board for shindigs, I said they were abductees. As for the tabloids being accurate, only if you've had a lobotomy. Re: Warding off abductions with your mind. It depends on what you call your mind, it can be a pretty big subject. In my case, pre-shield, I alter my schedule to vampire hours, staying up all night (with two pots of coffee) and going to bed at sunrise. You can will your way thru it but it's a real pain in the a$$. I work 9 to 5 and had to divide my sleeping schedule up into 2 4 hour chunks with the workday in the middle. On the subject of abductions. We have in your mythology the story of those who sell their souls to the devil and, in return, receive wealth and fame. The concept isn't new and has been around for a long time. The Nordics are, if anything, organized and logical. They have a management structure that works. Now, having gone to the trouble to solicit people to work your agenda - it is nothing less than stupid to propose they would not have a way to manage or to contact those who were volutarily working with them. Therefore, the idea of little parties on ships for the purposes of business and pleasure. The practicalities of managing human resources isn't going to be that different for Nordics OR Xerox. As to why you haven't read about Nordics, I guess you're reading the wrong material. You could get a subscription Mufon's monthly rag, they're mentioned occasionally. Unfortunately, as the worker bees, Grays are seen most often and become the point of debate. As they reflect the will of their master's, one would better focus on the horse's head than the other end. Bob Message: #6378, S/3 Abductions Date: Sat, Jul 30, 1994 7:44:02 PM Subject: #6329-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: George J. Chapman 74761,156 George: In dealing with dimensional issues you have to keep the relativity in perspective. If a 3D human attacks a 4D Nordic, he'll be swinging at empty air as the Nordic is not occupying the same time frame. If a 3D human hits another 3D human, then the physics of cause and effect apply. However, if a 4D human hits a 4D Nordics - you will get the same cause and effect as both have the same spacial characteristics. Can a 3D human interact via OBE with a 4D Nordic - yes. OBE, the human is in a 4D state. Therefore, both parties are essentially the same. However, there are major differences in as much as they can't take clippings from your gonads as it ain't there. Also, escape while OBE is very easy so risks are minimal to nonexistant. I'll agree with you that ALL attacks and abductions do not occur at night - MOST OF THEM DO. I was bagged in 1973 in broad daylight when I happened upon their ship while hiking. I could have lived without this. Had I not been in the right place at the wrong time - it wouldn't have happened - just bad luck. Take the driving down the road scenario where you end up with missing time. Usually, the victim gets out of the car to look. A mistake. Hunker down and stay in the car and if possible - ground the car so it acts like a shield. I also wouldn't promote mobile homes as antiabduction devices. If for no other reason that God hates these things. Whenever a tornado, flood etc hits - it's always the mobile home that ends up 50 miles from its prior resting place. As far as enhanced mental abilities - I can not confirm Angel's experience. Incidentally, the pyramid heads came from the 60's. The 80's were those who missed the original bus. I tried this - it just gave me a headache and made me feel stupid. Bob Message: #6376, S/12 General Discussions Date: Sat, Jul 30, 1994 7:44:26 PM Subject: #6335-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Larry W. Varney/KY 73563,61 Larry: Goto the Newage forum - ufo library and download the bit of my book in their. A Survivor's Guide To Armageddon. It will give you a lot of the background material. Bob Message: #6375, S/12 General Discussions Date: Sat, Jul 30, 1994 7:44:24 PM Subject: #6357-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 (received) Myke: I have not great love of Nordics BUT I find your intolerance of them based upon their characteristics (no soul) disquieting. By what criteria would you judge any species not your own? Myke, it wouldn't hurt you to read my book - it wouldn't hurt me either as I end up rewriting material that is already available for you. No my information on Armageddon is not from the Nohsaimus it is from a dissadent Nordic. In 1973, I was picked up, and taken into what appeared to be a 360 degree movie theatre. There I was show videos that appeared to be news clips of future events as it might appear on the six o'clock news. It begins with the resignation of Richard Nixon. The product was a database of of future information that I've learned how to access. However, as the data comes from I Nordic, I also distrust portions of it - particularly the fact that the end result is not in it. Now, before you go to the next thought of 'Hey why don't you prove it'. I already have. This proposition was put to me on 4/11/94 down on the ufo forum. I found it reasonable to either put up or shut up. I was asked for a short range prediction that was easily verified. On 4/12 around noon pst, I predicted an earthquake in the Los Angeles area - at 5:58 P.m. pst - it hit. This material was posted on the cis board before the event and I have save the posts etc. I am not, HOWEVER, going to perform like a trained seal. I am not waiting around for rapture or just sitting in my cage. I sleep in my cage. It is a safe place to go when I know I am not going to be conscious. I have a game plan. Part of it is to put out as much material in a public forum so that others can benefit from it. I'll agree with you that angels CAN BE fierce, but it is not their preference. The Nohsaimus are not about war but peace. I suspect that a portion of the Nordic Empire might be salvagable and qualified for membership in the Nohsaimus universe. However, the other part isn't going to throw in the towel and go away. They need to be dealt with and I suspect I have a role in that. Also, I don't while it is accurate to view the Nohsaimus as 'angels', I don't view the Nordics as demons. They are related but different races that have evolved differently. If one is to engage in any diplomacy with either party, that person must have a realistic view of who he is dealing with. There can be no place for prejudice AND that individual must approach these dealings with an open mind. The Nordic races exists because of the crimes of others. In this regard, they are as much victims as we are. A reasonable allowance needs to be made to the point - but that allowance can not pass the point of stupidity. The Noshaimus themselves will NOT make war on the Nordics. They will provide the means for us to do. Don't envision Gabriel leading the troops - they will be lead in good part by a former fallen angel, Lanonandec Son Caligastia #9344, of the Second Order of Lanonandecs. HE is the person most responsible for the state of this planet and HE is charged with cleaning up the that mess. I think it would benefit you to cease viewing these people in their religious imagery and think of them as over achieving humans. You'll be closer to the truth. Bob Message: #6379, S/13 Show Feedback Date: Sat, Jul 30, 1994 7:44:06 PM Subject: #6295-Gray's Beams From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Robert L. Anello 73144,1445 (received) Robert: Are the beams used for different functions all the same beam? Yes and not. There is only one power source on the ship. To that degree they all eminate from the same source. However, that is the last point of commonality. In the use of the 4D doorway. One energy field creates the door then another beam is used to haul the abductee out. Logically it would seem that as two different energy fields are operative at the same time BUT serving different functions they must be operative at different frequencies. Otherwise, one would interfere with the other. To answer your question - No - they do not use the same beam. As to whether an abductee see's the blue 4D doorway light or the white tractor beam depends on when they tune into the program. We are in agreement on this point. Bob Message: #267004, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Jul 30, 1994 9:55:17 PM Subject: #266951-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: CHRIS CROSBY (SCC) 72123,2154 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #267045 (1 reply) So you're saying they didn't abduct you because you stayed up until sunrise? That's unusual. I've heard that they'll abduct you whether you're asleep or awake, as long as it's night. Whatever the case, I certainly hope they don't try it again. Assuming they tried it at all. It might have just been a dream. Although, for the past few months I've been staying up until sunrise every night, and I haven't been able to figure out why. It might be my sub-conscious keeping me up. But like I said, I sure hope not. Chris Crosby, SCC Message: #267045, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Jul 30, 1994 11:38:07 PM Subject: #267004-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: westbrook 71705,262 To: CHRIS CROSBY (SCC) 72123,2154 Chris: I can't help what you've 'heard', however, my experience is that they will make no move unless every living creature, capable of harming them, is sedated to the point of being lobomized. To do otherwise places them in lethal danger and they won't do it (as a rule). There may be some exception out there I don't know about, but it is ex parte from their standard modus operandi. It also doesn't hurt that there is a loaded pistol next to my bed and each bullet has the name of a Gray on it. Bob Message: #6393, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Sat, Jul 30, 1994 8:30:07 PM Subject: #6227-Catch a Gray ? From: Sandy Lawson 71333,3051 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #6409 (1 reply) About your note taped to your backside that said "Kiss my ***". ROFL!!! You're a regular riot, Bob! Do Nordics have a sense of humor? Maybe the note fluttered off in the tractor beam...Lordy, I can just see it now.... :) Nordic: " What's this? What does that mean? Hey you, #365537, go put your lips on his gluteus maximus and see if you die" :-) :-) :-) :-P --Sandy Message: #6409, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Sat, Jul 30, 1994 11:38:15 PM Subject: #6393-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Sandy Lawson 71333,3051 (received) Sandy: Thanks, I have been known for my warped sense of humor. Bob Message: #6394, S/12 General Discussions Date: Sat, Jul 30, 1994 8:33:25 PM Subject: #6375-Catch a Gray ? From: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) What book Bob? I wish you would give more sources for your info, was this information on the Lacadonic fellow, former fallen Angel, from the dissident Nordic? I don't quite understand, you were given some kind of media presentation, but you speak of it as a database you have current access to, are you saying a large amount of information was programmed into you? If its from a Nordic I wowuldn't trust it *AT* *ALL*. I'm not religious, I became an athiest at the age of 8 when I found myself completely unable to logically find any counter argument, I didn't understand quantum and I had as yet no exposure to the great Eastern mystics. I gave you the foundation for my reasoning, and it is technical, not religious. As I said, they are not born and they do not die, they do not return to God between incarnations and they will never return Home to the real world, away from this shadow world as is our destiny. They are creatures of this world alone, they gave up the part of themselves that is real, it can not be copied in the technical process that allows them to transfer their consciousness from one body to the next. More questions shortly... BTW, I wish we could communicate more quickly, every go around now we seem to be jumping to radically altered and modified contexts, and given how much information we both have, and how it seems to match up very closely in some ways, but very loosely, or not at all in others, this could go on for some time. Message: #6402, S/12 General Discussions Date: Sat, Jul 30, 1994 10:04:24 PM Subject: Armaggedon From: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #6408 (1 reply) What kind of war are you expecting? Gandhi went to war against the British Empire, the greatest human empire that has ever existed, and won, without firing a shot. Gandhi was one of them. Did the dissident Nordic Xerox tell you about the Noshaimus/Nohsaimus (which is it?) rescue mission or did that come from the Nohsaimus themselves? How did you recieve the information that you recieved about the Nohsaimus and their rescue mission? Nordics are over achieving humans? I thought you were arguing how unadvanced you think they really are? I agree, but in an entirely different context, they are far progressed on the path of devolution, far down the path of the dark side. In one respect you can't get any lower save for annihilation, which is what happens to them when their physical forms are destroyed. They won't reincarnate, they gave that up; thus their overriding fear of bodily damage. Certainly couldn't see one leading an army involving physical assault... Message: #6408, S/12 General Discussions Date: Sat, Jul 30, 1994 11:38:07 PM Subject: #6402-Armaggedon From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 (received) Reply: #6415 (1 reply) Myke: I'm getting tired of having my words to you taken out of context and twisted. Futhermore, you seem intent on making meanings not contained in the words. I never said there was a Nordic named Xerox, I made a point that you apparently chose not to take as intended. No clarification is needed as to who said what in the previous post. It is rather clear to me - if it isn't clear to you then I suggest you ponder the material some more. For example, there is no Nohsaimus rescue mission, I'm cyrstal on the point. For whatever reason you wish to warp and pervert my thoughts, they are yours alone and I don't have the inclination to waste my time with the game. Your anger and hatred seethes through the screen here. I counsel tolerance and a degree of understanding re: Nordics and you return with more venom. Sir, you are unstable, illogical and far from being on a sound foundation and I am not in a position to give you anything that you would find valuable. I'm sorry Myke, this conversation services no positive purpose and ends now. Bob Message: #6415, S/12 General Discussions Date: Sun, Jul 31, 1994 12:06:00 AM Subject: #6408-Armaggedon From: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) >I'm getting tired of having my words to you taken out of context and >twisted. Futhermore, you seem intent on making meanings not contained >in the words. I never said there was a Nordic named Xerox, I made a point >that you apparently chose not to take as intended. Good God man, *I* used xeroxing to try an explain the way I see aliens. >No clarification is needed as to who said what in the previous post. >It is rather clear to me - if it isn't clear to you then I suggest >you ponder the material some more. Yes it is, I'm completely lost, and I wait with baited breath for each of you postings. >For example, there is no Nohsaimus rescue mission, I'm cyrstal on the >point. For whatever reason you wish to warp and pervert my thoughts, >they are yours alone and I don't have the inclination to waste my time >with the game. You said they'd come and evacuate. I'm completely lost then.... >Your anger and hatred seethes through the screen here. I counsel tolerance and >a degree of understanding re: Nordics and you return >with more venom. Sir, you are unstable, illogical and far from being >on a sound foundation and I am not in a position to give you anything >that you would find valuable. I'm sorry Myke, this conversation services no >positive purpose and ends now. Angry? Stop being so definsive! I'm *finally* having the converstaion I've been waiting to have (right before you came I had given up that any would show up to talk to). Theres a ton of info to go through, and you admit yourself that you can't trust your Nordic sources, yet you never say whether what your talking about came from the Nordics or the Nohsaimus. Message: #6416, S/12 General Discussions Date: Sun, Jul 31, 1994 12:32:03 AM Subject: casting pearls From: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #6438 (1 reply) First, what book have you written? Second, like I keep saying, for right now I'm a whole lot more interested in the good guys, but you did catch my attention with: >Lanonandec Son Caligastia #9344, of the Second Order of Lanonandecs. I think that since you know how bad this looks to some people, you've come to expect that people think you are crazy and that I will too. This is the very reason I've been spending weeks clearing this forum out of debunkers and ridiculers, to make a space for a conversation like this, but I think you are pushing your own bounderys, you are saying things that *you* are just not comfortable saying in public. I'm all ears, but I think you can be fooled, but I'll judge that by your source, and not by judging you personally. Perhaps we should find a more private means of communication? As for myself, there are *many* things I will not say here in the public eye and feel like you've got me 'casting my pearls before swine' as it were, *not* you, everyone *but* you. The dissident Nordic who gave you the media display: sounds very much like the media displays described in Dr. David Jacob's book secret life. The most common theme in those media displays was a future Earth which didn't show any signs of man, just endless nature. (Also, the atmosphere is a somewhat different shade). Message: #6438, S/12 General Discussions Date: Sun, Jul 31, 1994 2:51:12 AM Subject: #6416-casting pearls From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 (received) Myke: Agreed - into email. There are things that need to be said that are inappropriate for this forum. If you'd read the post and digested it - a Lanonandec is a classification of angel. It requires that one think a little about the subject matter. Email it is. Message: #267190, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 31, 1994 10:09:28 AM Subject: #266953-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: Neil Shapiro/Wizop 76703,401 To: westbrook 71705,262 Hi Bob -- Keep in mind that the last days of the Roman Empire were _not_ in the First Century AD which was the most Conservative time of the Empire. Following the Julian Emperors there were three hundred more years. The decline of the Empire actually began, in my opinion, with the establishment of the Christian Emperors, the split of the Empire and the weakening of the military due to the no-longer truly Statewide religion. I think Constantine was far closer to today's Liberal values then to today's Conservatism and although many people consider him to have been a "good" Emperor from the standpoint of History he truly helped to finish the Empire off. But to say that the Coliseum Games were "liberal" or "conservative" in nature I think forgets that more then anything else they were traditional. Once they had reached epic proportions it was like everything else, hard to cut back. But the epic size was reached under a government that I think today we would not call either liberal or conservative -- but fascist in nature. Anyway, pretty far off topic for here! Thanks for sharing your views with me tho!! -- Neil Message: #267375, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 31, 1994 5:08:09 PM Subject: #267190-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Neil Shapiro/Wizop 76703,401 (received) Reply: #267380 (1 reply) Neil: You question imposed a time frame, and I ignored it as I wasn't willing to open research material and look up time periods. Liberalism produces a period of long term decay that culminates in the collapse of the system promoting it. In this we are agreed. Re: The games. Gladiator games were traditional. The death spectacles of mass execution were not. Fascist is a political extreme. Liberalism, in it's extreme produces a fascist state (ask any smoker). Actually, these forms of government are not off the topic of ufos. The governments reflect the attitudes of the controlling entities. In my book, I noted that the Nordic agenda has always been one that culminates in death and destruction (emphasis added). If you care not whether or genetic material comes from the living or the dead, then death would be a goal to be achieved. It follows that the more deaths the greater the achievement of that goal. However, it is noteworthy that, like good herders, they never decimate the herd beyond it's ability to reproduce itself. Bob Message: #267380, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 31, 1994 5:19:15 PM Subject: #267375-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: Neil Shapiro/Wizop 76703,401 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) <> Uh, I don't recall agreeing to that. <> The death spectacles _were_ traditional from around 100 BC onward. They became State-run during the Julian period. By the fall of the Roman Empire (as dated by Gibbon) they had been in existence for at least 600 years. I think that qualifies as traditional . <> There we don't agree on definitions. To me Fascism is a form of government. Liberalism and Conservatism are words that reference a person's stand within one form of government. Someone can be defined as a Liberal in the USA but someone defined as a Liberal in Russia may be two very different nexus of belief systems. Very interesting though your theory that to understand UFOs we must understand their governments. I don't understand what you mean by "If you care not whether or genetic material comes from the living or the dead, then death would be a goal to be achieved." Maybe I've missed a conversation here that explains that.... -- Neil Message: #267387, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 31, 1994 5:41:16 PM Subject: #267045-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: CHRIS CROSBY (SCC) 72123,2154 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Yes, but can't the greys sedate you no matter what you try to do to keep awake (coffee, drugs, ect...)? Or do they just depend on the abductee not knowing he/she is about to be abducted, and they sleep willingly? I'd think they'd be able to knock you out no matter what you do. Your bullets have the names of Greys on them? What kind of names to Greys have, anyway? Chris Crosby, SCC Message: #267487, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 31, 1994 9:43:16 PM Subject: #267045-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: Jack Boyle 70322,2171 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Bob, >> It also doesn't hurt that there is a loaded pistol next to my bed and each bullet has the name of a Gray on it. << PMJI, but I think I recall you mentioning in previous posts that you were able to harm one or more of the Grays by physically striking them. Do you think (or know) if you caused the death of any Grays? If you were to shoot one of them during an abduction, do you think the body would remain as proof that could be shown to others? Or would it 'go back' to wherever they came from? Would you be willing/able to disable your cage in an attempt to investigate these questions ? I think a dead Gray would be conclusive proof for anyone! Just trying to expand my reality tunnel, Jack P.S. I just read your post about not becoming aware until you were on the table, and I think that answers some of my questions. But I'll post this anyway, in case you want to elaborate . Message: #267374, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 31, 1994 5:08:04 PM Subject: #267203-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Shannon + Sara Smith 73521,3045 Reply: #267390 (1 reply) Sara: My problem with your scenario is the same as I have with Chris'. If 'beliefs' were functional here, people would have believed them away a long time ago. Consider the prodcedure used in an abduction. 1. Sedate every living thing in the house. 2. Open dimensional doorway. 3. Activate tractor beam and take abductee out of bed and into ship. 4. Perform genetic extractions. 5. Reverse procedure and put abductee back in bed. It is noteworthy that #1 is to give electronic lobotomies to everything in the house. This makes them incapable of voluntary actions. Ergo, you have to conscious control. It is a rare individual who can take subconscious control under these circumstances. I have only been able to 'become aware' AFTER they've had me on the ship, butt naked and on the table. Then I can start fighting. The metaphysical and occult overtones of your post make for good reading, but based on my experience I can tell you that you have a negligble chance of success. You fight technology with technology. Bob Message: #267390, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Jul 31, 1994 5:47:06 PM Subject: #267374-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: CHRIS CROSBY (SCC) 72123,2154 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) I don't know where you got to the conclusion that I have constructed any scenario, since I have no particular beliefs on this subject. I'm just trying to learn from what you and the others on this Forum are saying, and I'll believe the one that sounds the most logical to me. Currently, your "scenario" seems a little far-fetched, but when you're dealing with grey aliens why abduct you at night and perform experiments on you, *everything* seems a little far-fetched, so I've just gotta go with the flow. Chris Crosby, SCC Message: #6523, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Sun, Jul 31, 1994 10:51:14 PM Subject: #6064-Catch a Gray ? From: Michael Borger 71736,3374 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) I've been following your remarks through this thread and I read you met R. Buckminster Fuller. I have never met him in the flesh, but back in medical school days I had a visionary dream in which I met him. It is one of the pivotal moments of my life. Are you interested in discussing this topic? Regards... Mike Borger Message: #6483, S/3 Abductions Date: Sun, Jul 31, 1994 5:26:00 PM Subject: #6378-Catch a Gray ? From: George J. Chapman 74761,156 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) Hi Bob, >>I'll agree with you that ALL attacks and abductions do not occur at night - MOST OF THEM DO. I was bagged in 1973 in broad daylight when I happened upon their ship while hiking. I could have lived without this. Had I not been in the right place at the wrong time - it wouldn't have happened - just bad luck.<< All the more reason to carry permanent portable protection, by developing the conscious thought of self-protection, thereby allowing the aura to project same. >>I also wouldn't promote mobile homes as antiabduction devices. If for no other reason that God hates these things. Whenever a tornado, flood etc hits - it's always the mobile home that ends up 50 miles from its prior resting place.<< Well, I did want to move anyway. In the meantime, I'll contact *God* and see if *He* can vent some of his hatred (dislike?) in another direction . >> Incidentally, the pyramid heads came from the 60's. The 80's were those who missed the original bus.<< I missed many buses in the 60's, as I was busy supporting and raising a family, although I made up for it in the 80's. George J. Chapman CompuServe - 74761,156 July 31, 1994 4:32 pm Message: #6499, S/12 General Discussions Date: Sun, Jul 31, 1994 8:19:13 PM Subject: #6438-casting pearls From: Randall Reeder 76050,3015 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #6507 (1 reply) Oh please, please don't go e-mail! I've been lurking here for more than a month waiting for your every post. Just as you are tying your writings in with the Urantia book and things are getting really interesting you are GOING PRIVATE with the good stuff?? Please don't forget about us serious, and seriously concerned lurkers. I haven't jumped into this fray before because I'm having a time getting my own thoughts and memories sorted on these issues. Every serious posting I've read here and elsewhere has helped me tremendously. Cast your pearls I say. Some of us are a bit better than swine. P.S. I'm going to send off for your book as soon as I can find a damn disk-mailer. From the Coffee Capital of the World, Seattle, WA Message: #6533, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Sun, Jul 31, 1994 11:32:07 PM Subject: #6523-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Michael Borger 71736,3374 Mike: I don't know that I'd qualify as an expert on Buckminster Fuller except that I though him an intelligent and nice old man with a gift for getting at the heart of the matter and little tolerance for bs. He also had a distaste for the rules of conventional science and did things his way. A good thing that he lived to as old as he did, he gained recognition by outliving his detractors. Bob Message: #6569, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Mon, Aug 1, 1994 7:25:02 AM Subject: #6065-Catch a Gray ? From: Chris Malcheski 71232,360 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 Bob, >> This is true - they only threaten the citizens - not the government. ROFL! The classic quote of the century. -- Chris Message: #6666, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Mon, Aug 1, 1994 8:48:10 PM Subject: #6590-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Sandy Lawson 71333,3051 Sandy: Re: Gonad Clipper. And I thought I was warped....... Bob Message: #6680, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Mon, Aug 1, 1994 10:18:12 PM Subject: Catch a Gray ? From: Sandy Lawson 71333,3051 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #6692 (1 reply) Bob, Nah, I enjoy your sense of humor and earthy style of speech. Did I mention I used to be in the Navy? Heard that stuff alla time, rarely with any intelligence. There were the occasional gems, though, that's how I know how to look thru personality/background/speech patterns to see intelligence and wisdom. Oh yeah, about good ol' (or bad ol') Odin: If Nordics reproduce like we do, how does the Xeroxing of their minds work? Are the children literally themselves all over again? If so, why is immortal Odin still kicking around in his scarred up body? To attract babes who like the rugged look? ; ) ----Sandy Message: #6692, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Mon, Aug 1, 1994 11:41:09 PM Subject: #6680-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Sandy Lawson 71333,3051 (received) Reply: #6711 (1 reply) Re: Odin and aging. I have never seen a Nordic over 33. I've seen them as young as 2. Odin is the exception to the rule. One of the aspects of living in a 4D environment is no time - virtual immortality. Furthermore, there is ever present aspect of genetically engineered immortality. In my book, I've speculated that Nordics are zapped with a forever pill sometime around 33. IF Odin were 'converted' in his 60's (as appears the case) then he is stuck with a 60 year old body. As there aren't any old Nordics, this would make him rather unique and perhaps even sexy. As for copying minds. I don't believe I said that they copy Nordic minds just ours and for purposes of intelligence more than anything else. In my 1973 abduction I was programmed with a great deal of info. The room this was done in was not designed for humans but for Nordics. You may say the Emily Woodhead center of Rapid learning. In less than an hour, I absorbed 30 years of condensed info. As for reincarnation. At the time of the writing of the book, I was uncertain (and said so) as to the existence of the 'good guys'. This uncertainty no longer is present. Further, the Nohsaimus are the exclusive distributers of the soul - not the Nordics. It follows that if a species is immortal, there is not need for reincarnation hense no need to inject personality in or remove it from a corpus. The Nordics have created a number of life forms from our life plasm. Each of these is lesser than the Nordic himself. It follows they would not like to devolve a step or two. No they don't xerox Nordic minds. Grays, on the other hand are highly programable. Except for their basic biological instincts - they can be altered to serve any master (assuming you know how). Bob Message: #6711, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Tue, Aug 2, 1994 2:08:13 AM Subject: #6692-Catch a Gray ? From: Michael Lee Finney 71573,1075 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #6718 (1 reply) Hello Bob, I am not familiar with you or where you are coming from, but I have caught glimpses of posts by and about you that lightly intrigued me. My remembered race conquered mortality and aging and were not unlike what are often called Nordics. What do you know and how do you now it? Are you a channeler? Barb Message: #6718, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Tue, Aug 2, 1994 2:14:08 AM Subject: #6711-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Michael Lee Finney 71573,1075 Barb: If I had immortality in a bottle, I wouldn't be sitting here playing with my computer No, I'm not a channeler nor am I immortal. Damn! Bob Message: #6764, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Tue, Aug 2, 1994 2:16:22 PM Subject: Myke Reynolds From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 Folks: I'm having a problem that I'm going to share with you. Not so much because I need help solving it, but because it's going to get plastered between your eyes whether you like it or not. I've been engaged in conversations with Myke Reynolds here on the forum. In his posts I detected what I thought were some venomous and disturbing qualities. I told him I thought his statements illogical and unsound. I then moved our chats to email because I could see where things were going. For 15 years I was married to a paranoid schizophenic and as time passed I saw her illness progress too. I saw disturbing parallels in the things Mr. Reynolds was saying to me. I quickly discovered that his ideas are, by my standards, far more bizarre than those generally heard on an, admittedly , fringe subject like ufos. His email to me in the last 24 hours has been hateful, assaultive and bizarre. He has now taken his behavior back into the public forum where he promises to be a disruptive influence. I deleted his last message to me. He's told me that he cruises this forum getting rid of debunkers. I checked with the staff and found that he's not a sysop and any authority he has is 'self-appointed'. He is going to set his sights on me. I believe Mr. Reynolds is a disturbed individual and I proffer exerpts from various communications to illustrate a variety of points. Westbrook: >I took our conversations out of the public forum because I didn't want >to be the cause of embarassment to you nor will I challenge you in that >forum. Reynolds: You are the one people think is crazy. My attention has brought you credibility you never had before. Comment: My Reynolds apparently believes he holds the keys to my credibility. A grandiose vision at best. For The Record: I write what I write. I offer my view, background, research, and a platform of logical thought. It will either stand or not based on its own merits. I don't care if anyone believes me or not. I do not make my living with ufos nor do I care to. It follows I have no profit motive. What I do here, I'm doing for free. My ego is large enough on its own what I do not need followers and discourage them. I am not the Messiah nor do I care to be. I'm one individual who sat down, researched these matters, combined them with logic and came to some reasonable conclusions. Westbrook: >I really don't think I have what you need or what you're looking for. Reynolds: Such arrogance, what could I possibly need from you? Comment: I've attempted to disengage this fellow several times telling him that whatever he hoped to gain from conversation with me most likely was going to be forthcoming. Westbrook: >Your dialogue with me indicates a pervading belief that you are not >responsible for your own actions and if shit happens, someone else (Bob) is >to blame or is attacking you. Reynolds: The only shit I see is this "your crazy; you're emotionally unstable; you must be in need of serious psycho help; etc..." Such a gentleman you are. This must be how you greet the ladies too? Comment: During our conversations a theme became apparent. Mr. Reynolds is a person who believes miracles have been performed on him from on high, but claims to be an athiest. He claims to have regular conversations with angels AND THAT THEY'VE TOLD HIM I'M WRONG, several times. Note: In my book, during an abduction in 1973, I cite the presense of the only old Nordic I've ever seen AND I have seen a few over the last 30 years. Reynold's asked me how I identified him as the 'Odin' from Norse mythology, a reasonable question. I gave him a thumb nail response. Westbrook: >7. I concluded Odin from racial characteristic, scarring from battles > and the eye. Reynolds: I don't understand this. I am told by the Angels that Odin is one of them and that he is no longer in phyiscal form, he has already ascended, like Jesus. He is of special importance to me, I don't what yet, but at the mere mention of his name by the Angels, my body turns red and I feel like a furnace. Comment: As I can't meet with Mr. Reynold's angels, it is impossible to discuss 'their' information. Yet, Mr. Reynold's expects me to and takes some exception when I don't validate his points of view. Westbrook: >12. You are incorrect, the rescue operation needs no funds. Reynolds: That is in direct conflict with what the Angels tell me. How do you know this? Now you are giving me the gospel without laying any foundation. These aren't my thoughts, I had no such thoughts before my rescue, so you can't say I'm not laying a foundation, I'm only stating what I have been taught. Someday, I will be given a Herculean task which will balance out my negative karma, and it invloves raising funds for this rescue mission; to have a place to gather all the Light Bearers where we can be safe. Building a sanctuary costs money. We can't just go meet in the park like Jesus did. Comment: Again we are back to Mr. Reynold's angels. He believes that God, the Nohsaimus, the angels or WHOEVER it is, is going to need the money to pull off the Rapture, which he refers to as a rescue operation. He also has some very grandiose ideas of his own importance up to, and including, equating himself with Jesus. Atheism has taken some turns since I last read it's definition. I'm pretty big for my own britches but I have to draw the line somewhere. The crux of his motivation for contacting me was to join WITH ME to perform this great service for mankind. I'm not interested in joining Mr. Reynolds for a burger and fries much less anything else. Unfortunately, the people visiting this forum are now going to be subjected to a series of virulent and petty shots sent in my direction. I don't choose to be a part of it and will do my best to ignore it. Everyone else can take it for what it's worth. People of good faith and inquiring minds come to places like this to grab a little bit of truth. Me, I get my truth where I find it and I assume everyone else is pretty much the same. Unfortunately, this subject matter also attracts unstable personalities and sometimes mentally ill individuals who believe that anything said to them that does not conform with their self image or fantasies is an assault on them, God or angels and they go ballastic when confronted with the opposing thought. What can I do about it? Not much. I can be tolerant to a point but when it passes abuse - then it's not reasonable to sit still. Bob Message: #6782, S/12 General Discussions Date: Tue, Aug 2, 1994 4:42:07 PM Subject: #6757-casting pearls From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: John W. Ratcliff 70253,3237 (deletable) John: I read with interest your comments about me. I don't recall we've had any conversations, but I am decidedly uncomfortable having Myke represent me and your comments show a high degree of misunderstandings. The conversations here are serial in nature and if you've missed something in the way of foundation, one would naturally assume no foundation. However, as I've gone to the trouble of writing a book, and it seems clear you haven't read it, I'd refer you to the ufo section of the newage forum. The name of the piece is a Survivor's Guide to Armageddon. You'll find it well researched, foundational and logical. The material is built from historical fact. At a certain point, I take that foundational material and apply it to my own experiences. The original premise is continually verified over a 6000 year period. It's really hard to find that kind of foundation. As for my religious views, I steadfastly stay away from the subject although I will use religious references for purposes of easy identification on occasion. As for being a CIA dupe..... it was good for a chuckle, thanks. I too have had problems with Mykes beliefs, theories etc. He seemed inclined to 'take up my cause'. Unfortunately, I don't have one so it leaves him rather unemployed in my case. You say you're surprised that I have ALL THE ANSWERS with not proof. I don't have ALL the answers, but I do have a lot of them. My proofs are in the foundational material you need to read. If you haven't retrieved the background material, it would be a reasonable to think me an idiot. As far a Judeo-Christian mythology. It is a good one because it's so well documented. However, if you're in search for the truth, you will find the same gigs played out with the Norse, Romans, Greeks, Egyptians Maya, Inca, Hopi, Navajo, and Hindu. Those are the cultures I cross referenced in my research. The names change, but the game is always the same. This is not a question of religion. In fact, I promote that religious systems were supplied to us as a diversion and control mechanism to keep us focused OFF the Nordics. Incidentally, I've never said there were 10 races. Whereever you got that quote from, it wasn't from anything I've written. As far as Urantia material, matter of opinion. Caveat Emptor. The Illuminati are Nordics - if you've read my material - they aren't my buddies by any stretch of the imagination. I was born with two testicles and due to their ineptness - I now have one. I'm not the forgiving type. Bob Message: #6771, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Tue, Aug 2, 1994 3:23:14 PM Subject: #6764-Myke Reynolds From: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) I never claimed to be a sysop, and I told you very plainly that I am not. Go quote *that*. I'm also not an atheist, where did you get that idea from? I was once. Message: #6809, S/3 Abductions Date: Tue, Aug 2, 1994 8:04:27 PM Subject: #6780-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Frank Turner 72540,736 Frank: Re: The Cage (shield) 1. The fan is optional. When I first put the thing together, I didn't know if it was the current and it's related magnetic field that disrupted their beam OR the wire. I've since learned that it is the wire itself and the fan isn't necessary. HOWEVER, after I put this up, they made several full power runs on me one evening. During the event, the wires got warm and the whole area around the bed heated up but that heat was localized to the bed. So, I turned the fan to face the bed and disapate the heat and then went to bed for the night flipping them off as I did with a big grin. 2. As a passive device, it will work as well but you have no way to get rid of the heat so you cook a little. 3. Sure there are other forms of abduction. If you're dumb enough to get out of the car and gawk at the ship - they're gonna bag your hide. However, if you ground the car, all that metal around you will act just like the shield. Your problem is having the presence of mind to get it grounded before you've been put to beddie bye. The bulk of abduction activity occurs in the bedroom after you've gone to sleep. I can't think of a time when a person is more vulnerable (except perhaps sitting on the John). Bob Message: #6817, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Tue, Aug 2, 1994 8:20:31 PM Subject: #6764-Myke Reynolds From: Chris Malcheski 71232,360 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 Bob, >> Unfortunately, this subject matter also attracts unstable personalities and sometimes mentally ill individuals who believe that anything said to them that does not conform with their self image or fantasies is an assault on them, God or angels and they go ballastic when confronted with the opposing thought. << I know a few individuals in this forum who go ballistic at the mere suggestion that any viewpoint besides theirs can exist, and odds are they don't even realize they're doing it. These people don't sit down and say "well I disagree and here's why." More like "you stupid, lost, assinine SOB, THIS is how it is..." They seem to have THE answer for everything. They won't know who they are because to the offending parties, "it couldn't be ME." But the rest of the forum has them pegged, I'm sure. They're the ones who never ask any questions, they just shove their beliefs down our throats and write long, long posts doing so to just about everything talked about in this forum. All answers, no questions. They know it all and are here to punish the rest of us for NOT knowing. I don't talk to them. It works for me. -- Chris Message: #6822, S/3 Abductions Date: Tue, Aug 2, 1994 8:51:20 PM Subject: #6809-Catch a Gray ? From: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 Betty and Barney Hill were taken from their cars. Anyone? Aren't there lots of cases of people being *taken* from their cars, without having gotten out? I know I've heard it enough times. Myke Message: #6810, S/12 General Discussions Date: Tue, Aug 2, 1994 8:06:22 PM Subject: #6782-casting pearls From: John W. Ratcliff 70253,3237 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (deletable) Reply: #6823 (1 reply) Bob, I've read your *book*, the downloadable version. While I constantly argue that it isn't nice to call people liars, I am very cautious about *believing* your interpretation of this phenomena. While you have pointed out on many occasions that you keep yourself *pure* by not reading other material, I am, unfortunately, far less pure than you. I've read a huge copious amount of material on these phenomena, and I find you voluminous amounts of material in direct contradiction to yours. (Let me re-iterate IN DIRECT CONTRADICTION TO YOUR THEORIES!!!) So does that mean I'm calling you a liar? No, not really. I grant your experiences are real to you, but I doubt they have any affect on me, and very questionable existance in consensus experential reality. Regarding 10 aliens. Man, don't I find it amusing that you would *correct me* on that. That was merely the point. Virtually no evidence exists to support the concept of physical alien entities that I can see. When I read your messages I feel like I'm getting dragged into somebody's Alice and Wonderland dreams, and your constant claims of *logic* completely and utterly escape me. Since you seem to be the only person in UFOolgy who knows that there are actual individual alien races present, their purpose, nature, thoughts, words and deeds, this makes you rather unique. I guess I will have to stay in the Jacques Vallee camp of saying "I have no ideal what's going on." Bob, you are on record as having stated in this forum, as fact, providing no qualifications to your statement, or *proof*, that Bill and Hillary Clinton are abductees. This is just one example of some of your highly questionable statements of *fact*, and all proof is relagated to your supreme methods of your *logic* and your *book* which uses similar assaults on the concepts we usually refer to as rational thought. I have tried to conduct some *logical* discourse myself in SUPPORT of the UFO phenomena in this forum, against some ill-informed skeptics. But I feel constantly undercut by messages stating that *Nordics* and *Lizardmen* are after our genetic goodies (this is one of your lovely terms) and Bill and Hillary are abductees. I am reacting somewhat in frustration by the wild speculation, paranoia and rampant rumour that is occuring here. I'm ready to join the George White and Jim Griebel fundemental materialist camp at this point, if people can't hold some of their reckless rhetoric in check. John Message: #6840, S/12 General Discussions Date: Tue, Aug 2, 1994 10:50:08 PM Subject: #6810-casting pearls From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: John W. Ratcliff 70253,3237 (deletable) John: In all the volumes of reading that you find in direct contradiction to my own did you ever do any of the following. 1. Go on board an alien craft. 2. Be an abductee. 3. Lose a body part to their incompetence. 4. Do battle with them physically. 5. Kill any of them. 6. Learn anything directly from them. 7. Have any one on one personal interactions with them? If the answer is no, then you must admit as a point of logic that you have no relative placement to make any valid judgement. Further, of the volumes of reading you have done. 1. Most of these books are 3rd person accounts of someone else's experience. With me you get a 1st person account. 2. I am not offering theories for the most part. Instead, I proffer inference and deduction based upon the sound principles of logic. All of which would be acceptable in a court of law. Query - would your books pass the test of admissability? As they aren't here and would be ruled as hearsay - your unstated evidence lacks the foundation for introduction as evidence. My experiences aren't supposed to have an affect on you. In fact, if they do - I don't get anything for it, and if they don't - I get the same thing. It follows that lacking an incentive to the contrary, I couldn't give a rat's patooty what you believe one way or another. NOR AM I trying to intrude myself into your beliefs. 'It's No My Job Mon'. You state that no evidence of alien life exists THAT YOU CAN SEE. That's the rub isn't it? You can't see it. Well, I can't help you there but I could get you into a position to be abducted. Are you willing to pay the price for your knowledge? I did - but then - I wasn't give a choice was I. I was 7 when they first started bagging me. If you feel like the material insults your intelligence, then what the hell are you doing here? Not logical friend. I make no CLAIM of logic. I establish a premise, present supporting fact, then infer and deduce material that just happens to support and prove the premise. That IS logic and is self evident to anyone who understands how the process works. On the rare occasions that I do make speculations, in my book, I usually label as such. Neat that I know the difference huh? Also, I am not in UFOLOGY and have a sizeable contempt for many of those who are. I'm a professional investigator who derives his living from using his logic. Also, I am not unique - many other people have seen Nordics, hybrids, Browns and Grays. I, however, seem to be the only one I know who has seen a Red. That does bother me a bit - but I can live with it. You're right - I don't detract from a statement by using qualifiers. I say it like it is. If you don't like it - what can I do. However, you again are wrong when you state that I have not offered foundation for my statement that Clinton and Hillary are abductees. In my book and in the Newage forum I stated that in 1973, during an abduction, I was taken into a Nordic learning center and given 30 years of advance information - programmed visually into my head. The members of that forum said - put up or shut up. I did, Predicting an earthquake in Los Angeles - three hours before it hit on the same day I posted the material here on cis. Guess what - I didn't have to shut up and my critics did. The point, is there is proof that what I say to the existence of the data provided me is accurate and stood the test. Now I move into an area like Clinton. You can choose to 'believe' what you like, however, I did make the showing of proof. So you say - "Ah it was a lucky guess or They have earthquakes in L.A. all the time." To wit I say," Good - you do it and I'll verify it with Cal Tech Seismic". It does put a different edge on it doesn't it. I'd like to point out that logic is the basis of rational thought. If you believe otherwise, then your thought processes are illogical, and it follows, irrational. You have yet to make any showing of proof other than your 'belief's that mine are also. I've never seen an lizardmen and have never written a word about it. Your statement is inaccurate and, I think, deliberately misleading so as to attempt to make me a point of ridicule. It follows, that as there in no accuracy to your statement that the statement is irrational. Further, if one would follow the train of logical thought, when a statement is deliberately irrational, the source of that is usually emotional. Therefore, logic dictates that your true purpose here is not intellectual but emotional. This would seem to undercut your statements that you have tried to conduct some 'logical' discourse. In fact, the evidence is to the contrary and I find myself forced to agree with Chris that your intents are irrational and demonstrably destructive. oooooooooo - Spock, how do I love thee, let me count the ways ...... I'm on a roll here guys. Your threats that your going to join some people in a different camp is hardly relevant to the conversation. Essentially you are saying that unless the people here pucker up and give your backside some respect, you're going to take your football and go home. We have returned to the emotional, not the logical and I submit sir, that if you find your needs are being met here, there may be a psychology forum somewhere in cis wherein you could get the attention you wish. If not, a dog can make a nice friend. Bob of Message: #6839, S/3 Abductions Date: Tue, Aug 2, 1994 10:49:15 PM Subject: #6825-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Robert L. Anello 73144,1445 Robert: To answer your question. Why not have Westbrook disconnect it? Westbrook is not programable. Also, it is not just ME they are afraid of. They will not enter the house while any living creature capable of inflicting injury on them is awake. I deduced that fact from conversations with abductees here on cis AND my own experience. It also points to technical limitations as well. Re: UB mental functions. I believe it operates in the Theta Band and is functional over very short distances. Abductees state communications are mental. As they communicate with us, it is a point of commonality between the structures of our brains and theirs. This put's us into 3 basic band waves. Alpha, Theta and Delta. Of the three, Theta is the one that would best serve mental communication. We also have no technology that will block a Theta wave transmission. So, my cage will not stop mind to mind contact. However, it's not your mind their after, but your gonads. The point of the cage is to keep the sedating beam off you so that you do not slip below normal sleep in their lobotomized version of sleep wherein you are totally incapacitated. If you are not in that state, they won't bag you as you can unexpectedly become aware and dangerous. The cage also disrupts the white tractor beam used to haul you out. So you score safe on two points. The cage will not stop involuntary obe. However, as they are rarely interested in talking to us, it's an academic point. The family jewels are safe. My post hypnotic suggestion to go ballastic was my idea. And I did it to reinforce what I was already doing - killing Grays. It was not a new behavior - but one that I developed on my own and strengthened. I agree, and have been saying for some time, these people have limitations. However, don't think they don't know us. They do, every crack and crevase. Message: #6863, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Wed, Aug 3, 1994 1:58:28 AM Subject: #6718-Catch a Gray ? From: Michael Lee Finney 71573,1075 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 Reply: #6900 (1 reply) Bob, Don't be evasive or I will have to come through this screen and spank you. I will get back to you when I know more of your story, someone sent me a copy of some of your material. Later Barb Message: #6861, S/3 Abductions Date: Wed, Aug 3, 1994 1:44:06 AM Subject: #6839-Catch a Gray ? From: Robert L. Anello 73144,1445 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #6870 (1 reply) Bob, >> Re: UB mental functions. I believe it operates in the Theta Band and is functional over very short distances. << Ah ha, this was one answer I was looking for! This does indeed support the reports that mindscan is performed with close eye-to-eye contact (on board ship) and that abductees who were "directed" to shut of video cameras recollect that the UBs were only a few away. >> So, my cage will not stop mind to mind contact. << This confirms Myke's suspicion and zaps my idea that their mental functions were also EM based. >> My post hypnotic suggestion to go ballastic was my idea. << Apparently I had misunderstood this before and thought a friend did this to you. >> However, don't think they don't know us. They do, every crack and crevase. << They do ask some very odd questions of abductees but I guess its part of the mind game they play. In fact some have been asked to point to the part of the body that contains the soul! I know your opinion on this issue so you don't have to explain. (soul-less S.O.B.S)!! Its obvious from all accounts that they are very predictable in following procedures and the sequence of their actions very rarely changes. But with that hive intellect, I would think we humans are very unpredictable to them as we all are quite different from each other. For this reason I tossed up the question about whether or not they really know us. Yes, I know you believe their scheme has been orchestrated for thousands of years and they've had this long-time "practice" to know everything about us. But......hasn't there been any time in your opinion that we humans collectively have been so unpredictable that we've thrown a monkey-wrench into their plans? P.S. For the benefit of other people who may be reading this, let me remind them that you are not the only person who has broken away while on-board. Others have done similar things and have been "nabbed" rather quickly! Therefore, if individual humans can temporarily cause some chaos for them, what's the potential for us humans to collectively throw the monkey-wrench at them? Regards, Bob Message: #6870, S/3 Abductions Date: Wed, Aug 3, 1994 2:24:15 AM Subject: #6861-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Robert L. Anello 73144,1445 (received) Robert: Yes, eye to eye contact is how they establish the link, however, with a particularly susceptible abductee, it can be done just by proximate thinking. Grays do it all the time. An antenna for Theta Band would be as large as the midwest to be even slightly workable. I'm aware of the soul question. Indeed I do know of the existence of the soul. It is the repository for all higher emotion. Lower emotions, like fear, survival instincts etc are biological, but the soul covers all the ground that makes life worth living - love etc. They are very curious on the subject and can not understand that we exist within our souls not with the soul in us. Indeed we can monkey wrench their plans. But first about the hive. The Grays have a hive mentality and must stay within it. The Nordics and Hybrids can connect to the hive, but it's optional. They are allowed a degree of independant thought. I've state before that the little Grays have IQ's of about 80. Very dumb and the screw up frequently. However, like a retarded human, they can be trained to perform limited functions AND they do so by rote. The same way all the time. Any culture dependant upon it's technology accepts, as a trade off, the limitations of those tools. Car's don't fly, planes aren't used as boats etc. Their tech toys show obvious limitations. The cage is a simple (very simple) exploitation of one of their weaknesses. I'd very much like to run into an electrowiz who could device switches to activate recording devices based on the material I've discovered. However, I have a real sneaking suspicion that the lid is going to be blown off the ufo question in the near future and that their 'existence' is no longer going to be a subject of debate. With regards to my hypnosis. I prefer to call it a 'time bomb' set to explode in their faces. Each time mine went off, they couldn't get me outta there fast enough. "He's loose - get him outta here". The immortal thoughts of the last Gray I mangled. Bob Message: #6850, S/12 General Discussions Date: Tue, Aug 2, 1994 11:47:23 PM Subject: #6840-casting pearls From: John W. Ratcliff 70253,3237 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) (deletable) Reply: #6858 (1 reply) See Bob, That was a real detailed explanation. Thank you. I guess I'm just persnikity, but the statment: "Bill and Hillary are abductees." and the statement "During an abduction, I was taken into a Nordic learning center and given 30 years of advance information - programmed visually into my head, which included information suggesting Bill and Hillary were abuctees." are quite a bit different. I like the second statement MUCH better. It contains MUCH more information to work from. Now I understand the context of this little info-data-item. Of course this does raise tons more questions, regarding the relative *reality* of your experience, and I hardly see the logic that states that because a psychic prediction was true, 100% of all of your views and perceptions regarding this phenomena must be true as well. Bob, let me be a bit more gracious here. Your world-view is so millions of bazillions of light years away from mine, I don't think we are ever going to find any middle ground in which to have discourse. If Armageddon comes, and unfolds exactly according to your predictions, you have my complete and utter permission to gloat "I told you so" as the Norics drag me off to their labor camp. Meanwhile, I'll just sit on the old Carl Jung collective unconsious fence or the Henry P. Stapp conscious universe curb or the Neitche existentialist dreamland or the Sethian personal reality model. They are all much more comfortable religous/philosophical standpoints as far as I'm concerned and offer equal dashes of proof and logic to support them. John Message: #6869, S/12 General Discussions Date: Wed, Aug 3, 1994 2:24:04 AM Subject: #6858-casting pearls From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 (received) Reply: #6885 (2 replies) Myke: Again you apparently haven't read the material. I have said MORE THAN ONCE, I am not looking to convert anyone to anything. As far as being self righteous, I suppose that is in the eye of the beholder. It isn't a descriptor I, however, accept as valid. If you feel my tone is condescending, the question becomes, "Who owns the problem". I like me, I'm comfortable with me and have no reason to wish to change the way I behave. If you, on the other hand, are uncomfortable with me, and don't like the way I behave then the problem rests with the person having it. As I'm not going to alter my personality or presentation to suit you - you need to find a way to deal with your reactions. It's not within the scope of my ability to effect you one way or the other. These things are all choices - your choices. Message: #6885, S/12 General Discussions Date: Wed, Aug 3, 1994 4:24:11 AM Subject: #6869-casting pearls From: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 |Myke: | |Again you apparently haven't read the material. I have said MORE THAN ONCE, I |am not looking to convert anyone to anything. As far as being ------- |self righteous, I suppose that is in the eye of the beholder. It isn't -------------- |a descriptor I, however, accept as valid. If you feel my tone is |condescending, the question becomes, "Who owns the problem". ------------- The message of mine you are refering to was to John, not you Bob. Myke Message: #6896, S/12 General Discussions Date: Wed, Aug 3, 1994 8:05:09 AM Subject: #6869-casting pearls From: Chris Malcheski 71232,360 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 Bob, >> It's not within the scope of my ability to affect you one way or the other. These things are all choices - your choices. << Of course you realize, with this [very accurate, IMHO] statement, you are threatening the very foundations of the Democratic party and the liberal left. To wit: "I am not accountable for me! The ENVIRONMENT is! (Meaning....YOU ARE!)" But that's not what we're here to talk about. -- Chris Message: #6917, S/3 Abductions Date: Wed, Aug 3, 1994 10:28:24 AM Subject: #6809-Catch a Gray ? From: Frank Turner 72540,736 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 Bob, I have a few other questions, but don't forget that I'll post a reference that seems to support your contentions - bizarre as this all may seem to anyone not familiar with the documentation. Firstly, have you ever seen these creatures and if so has it ever been in the company of others i.e. are there witnesses. Next, how can you be sure it's aliens that are effecting the cage and *not* some other type of EM transmission. You might be in an intermittent hot spot. Thirdly, how does one ground a car when the tires insulate it? (earth ground). I'm not really familiar with the physics of a F cage but does a chasis ground work or does the thing have to be connected to the earth? (I think F cages are attached to earth ground) Message: #6941, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Wed, Aug 3, 1994 1:36:11 PM Subject: #6900-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Chris Malcheski 71232,360 Re: Being Spanked by a Barbie Doll I'm short, cute and blissfully divorced Bob Message: #6940, S/3 Abductions Date: Wed, Aug 3, 1994 1:36:10 PM Subject: #6917-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Frank Turner 72540,736 Frank: Re: Witnesses I depends on what you'd qualify as a witness. My partner in crime and her husband were abducted simultaneously with me. They are 3000 miles from where I live. They were beaten about the legs while I was held and forced to watch. The next morning, we got on the phone and discussed our mutual memories. Incidentally, they both at severe bruising and sore legs. Incidentally, the bad guys didn't get the info they wanted from any of us. We all have classic type A bad attitudes and don't respond well to coersion. Well, the night I put it up, my Grayish keeper got aggravated, cussed at me, stomped on the floor, and went around the house slamming cabinet doors and doors. That cinched it for me. It would have to be a hell of a hot spot to do all this. Re: Grounding a Car. Drop a wire out the window and attach it to the metal. Result = grounded car. Bob Message: #6939, S/3 Abductions Date: Wed, Aug 3, 1994 1:36:05 PM Subject: #6918-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Frank Turner 72540,736 Robert: No, as I'm on the ground level, it is pointless securing the flooring. There's no way they can get the angle to shoot the beam in. Also, while the cage can not prevent obe's (voluntary or otherwise) it can keep a gray from crossing the wire while he is phased. He'd have to go 3D to physically move the wires and run the risk of being injured. Bob Message: #6943, S/12 General Discussions Date: Wed, Aug 3, 1994 1:36:14 PM Subject: #6885-casting pearls From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 Myke: Re: Wrong message Sorry 'bout that Bob Message: #6942, S/12 General Discussions Date: Wed, Aug 3, 1994 1:36:13 PM Subject: #6896-casting pearls From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Chris Malcheski 71232,360 Chris: Re: Democrats. Sorry, I'm not willing to get the lobotomy necessary to be a card carrying liberal. Dittos. Message: #6938, S/12 General Discussions Date: Wed, Aug 3, 1994 1:36:03 PM Subject: #6923-casting pearls From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Randall Reeder 76050,3015 To Randy (Awake in Seattle) Bingo !!! You got it. Bob Message: #6967, S/3 Abductions Date: Wed, Aug 3, 1994 3:37:07 PM Subject: #6940-Catch a Gray ? From: Frank Turner 72540,736 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 So you have some coroboration then. Yes I know how to ground a car in theory but in practice not everyone carries wire around with them. Then again I guess you can always just crash into a metal pole. That should work. Also, I'm not entirely sure if just laying a wire on the ground would actually make a good ground connection. The National Electrical Code wants home grounding electrodes fairly deep and spread out. But they're over cautious anyway I suppose. You mentioned that you're on the ground floor. Is it cement or wood? Have you tested the cage to see if it's actually earth grounded? i.e. take a light bulb tester and attach one side to hot and the other to the cage. The bulb should light. Does it? The reason I'm asking is that the theory makes a big difference if we really are dealing with EM beings. Message: #6966, S/3 Abductions Date: Wed, Aug 3, 1994 3:37:03 PM Subject: #6939-Catch a Gray ? From: Frank Turner 72540,736 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 So I'm assuming then that they have to shoot from the craft? One thing though is that a 4D being shouldn't have much trouble approaching the cage from underneath. In the way I'm thinking of 4D space anyway. I'm not saying the cage would prevent an OBE. I'm saying it could conceivably prevent the astral body from crossing it if the consistancy of the body was heavy enough. Message: #6983, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Wed, Aug 3, 1994 5:10:17 PM Subject: #6941-Catch a Gray ? From: Chris Malcheski 71232,360 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 Bob, >> I'm short, cute and blissfully divorced Well don't tell me! Tell Barbie Doll!!! (Hey Barb, are you taking all this in??) -- Chris Message: #6984, S/12 General Discussions Date: Wed, Aug 3, 1994 5:10:18 PM Subject: #6942-casting pearls From: Chris Malcheski 71232,360 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 Bob, >> Sorry, I'm not willing to get the lobotomy necessary to be a card carrying liberal. Dittos. Even as we speak, I'm proudly wearing my t-shirt purchased at Dan's Bake Sale. Dittos back! -- Chris Message: #269071, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Wed, Aug 3, 1994 7:59:06 PM Subject: #268936-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Dean Miller 75110,3417 (received) Dean: As far as I'm concerned, they can abduct my psychic a$$ anytime. Just leave my gonads alone. Bob Message: #7027, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Wed, Aug 3, 1994 10:52:07 PM Subject: #6764-Myke Reynolds From: Kirsten 73021,2047 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #7031 (1 reply) Bob, Take it all for what it's worth to you. Personally, I have nothing against Myke, and I take his opinions for what they are...his. I used to let them get to me, but not anymore. Someone has to draw the line, and it might as well be you (or me for that matter). If you are happy with your ideas, good for you. I am also happy with mine. Until certain people learn to accept the opinions of others and treat them with respect, just keep on deleatin' those messages!!! Works for me!! (G) Best wishes, Kirsten Message: #7031, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Thu, Aug 4, 1994 1:22:15 AM Subject: #7027-Myke Reynolds From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Kirsten 73021,2047 Thanks for the vote of confidence. Bob Message: #7000, S/3 Abductions Date: Wed, Aug 3, 1994 7:47:26 PM Subject: #6967-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Frank Turner 72540,736 Frank: It's axiomatic that when your neck deep and shoveling as fast as you can that you don't stop to call OSHA. U know, any port in a storm. If I had to, I'd take a leak to ground it out. Wouldn't do a lot for my leaker though. Re: Grounding I'm trusting that the third pin of the wire (the ground) actually does what it's supposed to. So far so good. Message: #7040, S/3 Abductions Date: Thu, Aug 4, 1994 6:26:08 AM Subject: #6940-Catch a Gray ? From: Robert Thrift 75545,1710 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 >>My partner in crime and her husband were abducted simultaneously with me. They are 3000 miles from where I live.<< This little observation raises a question which has not been adequately addressed, IMO, by most writers on ufology. If I read it correctly, you are saying that you and the other pair met for the first time during an abduction, and that you were picked up simultaneously, or nearly so, from locations 3000 miles apart. The usual picture most people have of the abduction scenario is one of a UFO hovering somewhere, high or low, in the vicinity of the abduction. You describe a situation where that picture does not fit. There are other instances recorded in which a group of people were abducted from widely separated points. Like, for instance, the American woman who was returned home wearing the wrong T-shirt. It had Japanese writing on it. How is this accomplished? People could get picked up locally by a UFO and then taken to some central location. Or else the USOBs are able to sit in a central location and pick up individuals from points thousands of miles apart. This would imply incredibly precise control and selectivity. Do you have any abduction memories that would allow you to shed any light on this? Best regards. --RLT Message: #7001, S/3 Abductions Date: Wed, Aug 3, 1994 7:47:30 PM Subject: #6966-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Frank Turner 72540,736 Frank I can't speak to the astral body. However, the ship has to be in line of sight for the tractor beam to work. They haul you out with that beam. Therefore, it is irrelevent if a 4D being could go thru the walls or the floor (they do). But if they can't get that beam to levitate your carcass, it's all academic. Second scenario, the sedate you, Grays pick u up and haul you to where they can get the beam into the room. Same deal. They have to drop their shields to get thru the wire - ie: risk of injury. Unless the can get a light beam to shoot around corners (and they can't) it doesn't make any difference if they come from above, the sides or underneath. They have to work within the limitations of their technology. Message: #7055, S/3 Abductions Date: Thu, Aug 4, 1994 10:43:08 AM Subject: #7000-Catch a Gray ? From: Frank Turner 72540,736 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #7062 (1 reply) Re: grounding. Is it plugged into the wall socket? Again I'm real curious to establish whether or not this is an earth ground or not. Message: #7062, S/3 Abductions Date: Thu, Aug 4, 1994 11:40:12 AM Subject: #7055-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Frank Turner 72540,736 Frank: Yes, plugged into a socket. Bob Message: #7063, S/3 Abductions Date: Thu, Aug 4, 1994 11:40:14 AM Subject: #7040-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Robert Thrift 75545,1710 Robert: I can't speak to the woman with the Japanese T Shirt, but we were picked up by different ships and transfered to a 3rd where we were all together. The Grays did transport, the perps were Hybrids. No they don't have a 'Beam me up scotty' transporter. Bob Message: #7056, S/3 Abductions Date: Thu, Aug 4, 1994 10:43:14 AM Subject: #7001-Catch a Gray ? From: Frank Turner 72540,736 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #7061 (1 reply) The problem I have with this is that any 4D creature could easily penetrate into 3D space from any side. So they'd easily be able to come from under the bed unless there's something in their technology that isn't 4D. The question would then be is the laser or whatever 3D or 4D? I think that in all of the studies I've seen the beam does in fact work the way you'd suppose a physical craft would work. Hmmm this is weird. Again, there's only so far that supposition will go with little actual facts. I have no doubt at all that an astral being could go right under the bed. So could any other 4D being. The problem may be in any technology that materializes a 4D being into 3D space. Geez that's outta my league. I've read about dimensional analogies in at least a few books. A very simple analogy would be to compare 1D to 2D space, then 2D to 3D space, then 3D to 4D space.. Looking at 2Dto3D a being going down to 2D space can perform all sorts of magic on a 2D being. He could reach into the 2D's square box from a side that the 2D being doesn't even suspect is there! Extrapolate that up to 4D space and you'll see why I think a 4D being could run circles around us. Reaching "around" a F cage shouldn't be that difficult. The problem of course is again how are the 2 different spaces meeting up? Message: #7061, S/3 Abductions Date: Thu, Aug 4, 1994 11:40:11 AM Subject: #7056-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Frank Turner 72540,736 Frank: I think you're confused because you're making it more difficult (conceptually) than it really is. 4d light? Energy is energy. So it makes no difference as to dimension. That is an aspect of its use, not its nature. Re: coming thru the floor. Ok, Gray #1 comes thru the floor. How is he going to get your 3d carcass out? Answer: They open the 4d door and put you on the tractor beam and up you go. The door way must be shot against a 3D surface like an interior wall for it to work. Therefore, it is a combination of 4D physics using light (energy) and a 3D element (wall) that = doorway. Light travels in a straight line. Therefore, unless the ship is under thehouse, they won't be taking you out via that route. Bob Message: #7070, S/3 Abductions Date: Thu, Aug 4, 1994 12:30:15 PM Subject: #7062-Catch a Gray ? From: Frank Turner 72540,736 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 Then it's earth grounded. Is there a current flowing? If so this is more in keeping with the problems Monroe encountered when he got near high voltage wires. In fact they may not have even been high voltage. I'll look this up now...... Message: #7069, S/3 Abductions Date: Thu, Aug 4, 1994 12:30:13 PM Subject: #7061-Catch a Gray ? From: Frank Turner 72540,736 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 He might be able to materialize inside the cage with a smaller version of the.... whatever it is that paralyzes you. You'd think that they could knock you out and then physically drag you out of the cage. >> Energy is Energy Yeah. That's why your cage set up bothers me. They've figured out how to either travel FTL and/or made a dimensional shift and yet they cannot unplug an extension cord? I'm trying very hard not to burst at the seams from laughing and won't do so only because I very well understand the seriousness of the situation having encountered it in many others. But you'll have to admit these appear to be the dumbest advanced ET's around. Which again leads me to think that we may simply be dealing with high-tech demons or rather demons that have turned high tech. Who said a devil is constrained to having pitchforks and horns anyway? Maybe they've traded them in for flying saucers! Message: #269425, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Aug 4, 1994 1:19:08 PM Subject: Believe ! Westbrook !! From: Hardy Rupp 100336,255 To: westbrook 71705,262 heyNow, westbrook! having kept my mouth short for a long time reading all (!) of your messages, today i can't hold no longer. it's just because i saw bill clinton (the "willing pimp", as you call him) on cnn talking 'bout health insurance'n' stuff, and then i re-read your messages. for me, as a german, the discussion about health care seems ridiculous. for us it's one of the most normal things that every citizen in this country has this security. this assurance- system was introduced by BISMARCK! but, i'm shure, even he was a liberal in your opinion sorry, but your argumentation on that point has a smell of an evil conspiracy as everything you write. everywhere are people 'selling their souls to the devil' - the devil???? yeah, that's your theme, and that's why i read your messages, i love to see your personal fears, but - i don't share them. it's just your private hell, enjoy it! >> Any, in depth investigation by an objective party will reveal a pattern ... objective? please, westbrook, you're verything, but OBJECTIVE ?????? if someone objective reads your messages he'll have as much fun on them as i have . >> The liberal press, not only hides and conceals these things from the public ... oops, and i believed america had a conservative majority 'till 1992. but i'm shure, ronny was a liberal too in your opinion ... please, westbrook, check out for reality. the word 'liberal' seems to have a bad smell to you americans, for us 'liberal' stands for protecting the civil rights. the conservatives & the social-democrats are both everytime willing to cut off my rights to regulate something for me that i don't want to be regulated. okay, enough words. you're a curious guy, and i look forward to your next postings on every conspiracy-theme you may find. as i said, i love your stuff, but believe in you???? NOOOOOOOOOOOO! having fun on it? YEAH! one love hardy Message: #269507, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Aug 4, 1994 5:03:28 PM Subject: #269071-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: Dean Miller 75110,3417 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Bob, I said "reasonable percentage". I certainly think your abductions were physical. However, the characteristics of abductions reported by many others seem to be more of an OBE nature. Dean Message: #269514, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Aug 4, 1994 5:22:17 PM Subject: #269425-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Hardy Rupp 100336,255 Hardy: Every American has a constitutional guarantee to the rights of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. It does not guarantee a definition that happiness is that which can be bought with money other than your own. It assumes you will work for your own keep and pay your way. Your country's socialized medical schemes do not fit well with the American psyche. It rewards non-producers at the expense of those who do produce and provides incentives to be a non-producer just as our welfare schemes have here. You neglect to mention the high unemployment rate and fiscal turmoil that your country suffers from this and other related projects. Nor do you comment on the fact that German's fiscal health relates directly to it's American market place. In financial circles there's a saying. If American catches cold, Europe gets pnemonia. I have never proposed that people can sell their souls to the devil. If you wish to quote me - please do it accurately. As a German, you can appreciate a desire for precision. Your facts are wrong. America has not had a conservative majority in Congress for over 40 years. There are two things American liberals do. They raise taxes and legislate away your freedoms. American conservatives have never done this. The policies of liberal governments (who protect your civil rights as you say) also get the money out of someone else's pocket to give to you. This eventually destroys governments and civilizations. As for me being fearful. I am not. In fact, I am the most fearless person I know. Your attempts at ridicule sir, are juvenile and sophomoric at best. Like a good liberal, you base your arguement upon false, misleading, or inaccurate information. The point of this forum, however, is ufos. If you've been reading my work and, in particular, the descriptions of Nordics, you will not the common Aryan elements in their appearance. Is it ironic that a sociopathic government developed in your country espousing a philosophy that so closely resembles the practices of our ufo Nordics? Is it coincidental that Nordics hold human life in high disregard and this past German regime turned Europe into a graveyard generating over 40 million dead? The Third Reich operated under a variant of a liberal agenda. Take from the Jews and give to someone else. The idea being that Jews were bad guys and rich and the average poor German suffered from their contrivances. In a lesser extreme we do the same thing here. Victimizing the rich (defined by Clinton in the 35,000.00 per year bracket) for the benefit of the poor (those who have babies they can't afford to support). This same scenario reappears throughout the histories of various countries which, incidentally, no longer exist. Bob Message: #269667, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Thu, Aug 4, 1994 11:15:30 PM Subject: #269514-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: Peter Partridge/UFOLOGY 70762,1512 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #269686 (1 reply) To Hardy and Bob, If you guys want to debate societal politics, go email. If you want to score points on each other go games. If you want to discuss Ufology, please do so with civility if not mutual respect. While the discussion of Nordics is topical, the comparison of them to Third Reich Aryan stereotypes is insensitive and insulting as well as inflaming. If you want to re-fight the war, go elsewhere. If you have any regard at all for the people paying to download and read this section, discuss Ufology. Thanks. Pete Message: #269686, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Aug 5, 1994 12:23:23 AM Subject: #269667-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Peter Partridge/UFOLOGY 70762,1512 Ah...... The thought police speak..... Message: #7097, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Thu, Aug 4, 1994 6:31:12 PM Subject: #6941-Catch a Gray ? From: Michael Lee Finney 71573,1075 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) Bob, HOw cute are you? Single women want to know. Barb Message: #7131, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Thu, Aug 4, 1994 11:05:09 PM Subject: #7031-Myke Reynolds From: Kirsten 73021,2047 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) Bob, You're welcome. Kirsten Message: #269799, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Aug 5, 1994 11:14:24 AM Subject: #269514-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: Hardy Rupp 100336,255 To: westbrook 71705,262 hi! i was shure, you're answer would be SERIOUS. i hoped to get a little smile in your face . don't feel bad treated by my rough letter, as i said, i love your stuff, as one color in the bride colorbox of life ... >> American has a constitutional guarantee to the rights of >> Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. i know. this garantees you to have the right to posess a weapon. as i heard this right made los angeles a very dangerous place >> It assumes you will work for your own keep and pay your way. yeah, and if you don't have the money to pay medicine support, you have the right to be dead or ruined ... >> Your country's socialized medical schemes do not fit well with the American psyche. america, i think, is a big place with many people with another 'psyche'. i suppose you meant the psyche of a "good american" >> You neglect to mention the high unemployment rate and fiscal turmoil >> that your country suffers from this and other related projects. right. but the reasons for that are more to find in the believe of our (conservative) chancellor kohl in spending money he doesn't have. my children & their children will pay for that. not a question of our social sytem ... the normal people doesn't have anything from that, but those who are cold blooded have now their chance to grab their part ... >> I have never proposed that people can sell their souls to the devil. oops, i never thought you 'propose' that, i understood you well that you suppose that some popoular people (hollywood guys, all the liberals etc.) had done that in making a "deal" with the nordics, right?. >> There are two things American liberals do. They raise taxes and legislate >> away your freedoms. American conservatives have never done this. like the politicians in the GDR. there were no taxes at all . but i suppose, that's not your ideal ... >> This eventually destroys governments and civilizations. no, i think that a loss of perspective destroys it. as you know, we got a problem with 'skinheads' here. these guys have no ideals, no education, no job. the same as your street gangs. this loss of respect against the community they're living in will destroy our countries in the near future. politicians will never do that 'cos that will make them loose their jobs ... >> As for me being fearful. I am not. In fact, I am the most fearless person I know. i know, you've constructed a wonderfull wooden box to hide in, when nordics are on the run ... ----------------------------------- enough of that, it's interesting but .... >> The point of this forum, however, is ufos. right. and that's why i'm here, listening to all of you, interested in everything, open-hearted even for strange visions, as yours is ... >> The Third Reich operated under a variant of a liberal agenda. 'variant of a liberal agenda' ?????? please, westbrook, anything else but this! the time of the "weimarer republik" (198-1932) was beside the french revolution in 1792 my favourite themes when i studied history in university. the stuff i was searching for, was conspiracy, illuminati!, rosecrucians and the thule. there's a book "before hitler came" (released only one time in 1932) by freiherr rudolf von sebottendorf, the founder of the thule in munich in 1915, in which he claims to be the creator of the "phenomenon hitler". check out for this, westbrook, and you'll see that the whole nazi thing isn't a political movement at all, it's an occult religion, founded in the the believes of the "german order" and the writings of a guy named lanz von liebenfels, the journal "ostara". if you got the time & the chance to read this book you'll be very suprised finding very familiar themes ... on the ufo theme: yeah, westbrook, that's what we're talking about, but if i look at the "market" of theories, yours is unique. there are many believing them as friends, time travellers, superior beeings, military hoaxes etc. you, westbrook, see them as enemies. if they're really enemies, we're simply lost, no chance ... but, that seems to me a very humanoid point of view. i prefer seeing us like 'star seed', watched by our fathers or brothers, and i really can't believe they're as stupid & primitive as we humans are. but even that's a very 'material' POV and i'm shure that the whole thing is more complexe we can imagine. all our tries to explain the phenomenon are like children talking about einstein's theories. some of the folks in here try to look forward in developping 'new' ideas. yours seems to look backward, enemies everywhere. in times like ours we see the results of this in yougoslavia. they kill each other just because of the past. ooops, so much words ... pardon me for taking your time, but as i said, i really enjoy your writings (there are none of your books translated in german, as far as i can see, so i only know your threads). stay in good humour, w. one love hardy In a lesser extreme we do the same thing here. Victimizing the rich (defined by Clinton in the 35,000.00 per year bracket) for the benefit of the poor (those who have babies they can't afford to support). This same scenario reappears throughout the histories of various countries which, incidentally, no longer exist. Bob Message: #7159, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Fri, Aug 5, 1994 10:57:19 AM Subject: F cage Confirmed!! From: Frank Turner 72540,736 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 Bob, I've confimed your Faraday cage experiment! This is extremely important because for the first time I have some tangible correlations to my hypothesis that UFO abductions are probably astral phenomena. Look at this entry from Bob Monroe: 7/7/60 Afternoon This was an experiment I don't want to try again. I was in the charged Farady cage (copper screen mesh, above ground, D.C. charge 50kv). I attempted to move through the cage. I got out of the physical OK, then I seemed to be entangled in a large bag made of flexible wire. The bag gave when I pushed against it, but I couldn't go through it. I struggled like a trapped animal in a snare, and finally went back into the physical. In thinking it over, quite evidently it was not the wire itself, but the electrical field pattern set up in fundamentally the same shape as the cage, but more flexible. Maybe this could be the basis for a "ghost catcher!"" 'Journeys Out of The Body', P. 174 Softcover Edition Then in another incident Monroe got attracted to some high power wires when attempting to go somewhere else. 10/30/60 ...........I looked up at the approx position I had been over the sidewalk, and got a suprise. At just about the exact height I had floated over the sidewalk were power primaries containing fairly high voltage electrical current. Do electrical fields attract this second body? Is this the medium through it travels? IBID P. 175 Now, this is probably the most important correlation I've made to date Bob. If your abductions have stopped, then are you still gonna try and tell me we're dealing with ET's OR astral beings? Look, I don't know for sure. They could be physical ET's that are using the astral to travel through. But it doesn't look that way at all. In all of the documentation in the astral literature, the astral denizens aren't always "advanced" as compared to us. Sometimes the opposite is true. Or sometimes they're just a little ahead. As I said these appear at times to be dumb advanced ET's. On top of all that every time I read an abduction account I could just as well be reading an OBE account! I hope to god someone sees the significance of what we've just uncovered here. Your ET stopper probably works and was "confirmed" (albeit subjectively) in an experiment done 34 years ago! The only real question is are they erally ET's or something else. I need to know a few other things. Is there a current flowing? And I'll assume it's 120V AC? I probably won't be in touch until Mon. Message: #269955, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Aug 5, 1994 6:04:19 PM Subject: #269799-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Hardy Rupp 100336,255 Hardy: No, if you don't have the money, you can get free medical care at the tax payers expense. We don't let people die. However, they go to a public hospital where the standard of care is considerably less than a private facility. Ie: Government does not run good hospitals. Adequate, sure, but good is a different matter. No, I didn't mean 'good American'. There are many of us who don't think the world owes us anything. We expect the government to provide an equal chance through the equal enforcement of laws. The rest, we're willing to work for. Your comment, about the rich getting richer, is the same tripe used to generate class division here. It is the chant of the liberal to divide the country into special interest groups and then set them fighting with each other for their chance to feed at the public trough. You illustrate my point well. We expect government to perform the functions necessary to make us unified and viable. That requires taxation. I have no gripe with contributing my share to the common good. I don't think Germany's Neo-Nazi groups will be the threat Hitler and his brown shirts were in the past. Yet, they promote the same agenda. My box isn't wooden. And I do not use it out of fear, but common sense. Having been an abductee most of my life, I CHOOSE not to be anymore and have made the means to negate their technology. That is not an exercise in fear but control. Consider this my friend. What IF the ideals you espouse as a middle class German were the product of subtle indoctrination? Further, WHAT IF the progenators of this philosophy were set upon the distruction of your country's infrastructure? At what point, would you be willing to reconsider the correctness of your position? These people have been manipulating us for thousands of years. They know the 7 deadly sins preferred by humanity as well as we do. Your comment that the Hitler movement was an occult thing, well illustrates this particular point. The Illumanti, is a nice word for Nordics. Who then was on the other end of the occult connection? Hitler on one side, Nordics on theother ? No sir, we are not lost as perpetual victims of the Nordics. We are creatures of Free will and we can choose to fight. My cage is the first step in that battle. Removing ourselves from the list of victims. And we have allies. My message here may have seemed to be one of despair. It is not. I promote a message of hope and my progress in my quest for the truth is on going. I am not paranoid, nor fearful. I am truthful and write it as I see it, and occasion injecting some wit and humor to keep the crowd from getting bored. My purpose for coming to this forum is completed and I will be backing out (see next message). Bob Message: #269956, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Aug 5, 1994 6:04:05 PM Subject: Farewell From: westbrook 71705,262 To: Westbrook 71705,262 Folks: I have completed the tasks I came here to perform. These were to 1. Inform as to the nature and purpose of ufos and those who operate them. 2. Inform as to a defense against these intrusions. 3. Inform as to the nature of our universe, our places in it and future events. For myself personally, I came to seek out 40 special people with whom I must make contact. In this effort, I have located 2. The others are scattered around the planet and the means for locating them has only recently surfaced. I've attempted to convey the ideas of free will and choices. If tried to proffer the idea that fear can be conquered by rational thought and intellect. It is with these tools alone that we will survive the coming years, individually and collectively. I am aware that I have inspired some people to considerable extremes. Consider that this reaction belies the fact that I have hit a nerve, one that inspires considerable emotional responses both postive and negative. This fact alone should demonstrate, if nothing else, that something is going on. I will not be posting any more material on this forum. I have reached a point where the nature of the material is too sensitive to commit to a public forum. However, I will say this: The lid is going to blow off the subject of ufos in the next few months. A ship will appear and will slowly cruise the major cities on the globe allowing itself to be photographed and documented. This craft will be manned by humans and renegade hybrids in revolt against the Nordic regime. If you read Revelations, you will note a passage about a pregnant woman who crushes Satan. That woman is alive and is pregnant with a hybrid implanted during an abduction. The Nordics can't harvest the fetus due to the protection of my shield. Revelations further states she will flee the Earth to a place of refuge. This too is in progress. Also, that the child will become a great future leader. That remains to be seen. The truths of my writings will become self evident as these events occur. The Nohsaimus are training humans (obe) with the skills necessary to deal with the upcoming war. The battle for Earth will be fought in space with humans and hybrids working side by side using a combination of stolen Nordic technology and Nohsaimus techonology. Satan and his Nordics will not stand in the face of this hurricaine. The bulk of the humans utilized in this war will be taken from the ranks of those taken in the Rapture, approximately 2 years from now. All will serve voluntarily and willingly. All will represent the best of what lives in the hearts of man. We're in for some interesting times. While I will not be posting here, I will still be available in email for a while for those who wish to seek me out. I wish you all well and good luck for the future. Bob Westbrook Message: #7195, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Fri, Aug 5, 1994 6:05:00 PM Subject: #7159-F cage Confirmed!! From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Frank Turner 72540,736 Frank: Yes, I have a 120 current flowing. I think you're hung up on the semantics here and aren't visualizing the word 'astral' correctly. My ET's are using the 4th dimension to perform their deeds. Astral projection is moving your mind into the 4th dimension. There is no difference. It's the same thing Get it? Bob Message: #7197, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Fri, Aug 5, 1994 6:05:14 PM Subject: Farewell From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Westbrook 71705,262 Folks: I have completed the tasks I came here to perform. These were to 1. Inform as to the nature and purpose of ufos and those who operate them. 2. Inform as to a defense against these intrusions. 3. Inform as to the nature of our universe, our places in it and future events. For myself personally, I came to seek out 40 special people with whom I must make contact. In this effort, I have located 2. The others are scattered around the planet and the means for locating them has only recently surfaced. I've attempted to convey the ideas of free will and choices. If tried to proffer the idea that fear can be conquered by rational thought and intellect. It is with these tools alone that we will survive the coming years, individually and collectively. I am aware that I have inspired some people to considerable extremes. Consider that this reaction belies the fact that I have hit a nerve, one that inspires considerable emotional responses both postive and negative. This fact alone should demonstrate, if nothing else, that something is going on. I will not be posting any more material on this forum. I have reached a point where the nature of the material is too sensitive to commit to a public stage. However, I will say this: The lid is going to blow off the subject of ufos in the next few months. A ship will appear and will slowly cruise the major cities on the globe allowing itself to be photographed and documented. This craft will be manned by humans and renegade hybrids in revolt against the Nordic regime. If you read Revelations, you will note a passage about a pregnant woman who crushes Satan. That woman is alive and is pregnant with a hybrid implanted during an abduction. The Nordics can't harvest the fetus due to the protection of my shield. Revelations further states she will flee the Earth to a place of refuge. This too is in progress. Also, that the child will become a great future leader. That remains to be seen. The truths of my writings will become self evident as these events occur. The Nohsaimus are training humans (obe) with the skills necessary to deal with the upcoming war. The battle for Earth will be fought in space with humans and hybrids working side by side using a combination of stolen Nordic technology and Nohsaimus techonology. Satan and his Nordics will not stand in the face of this hurricane. The bulk of the humans utilized in this war will be taken from the ranks of those taken in the Rapture, approximately 2 years from now. All will serve voluntarily and willingly. All will represent the best of what lives in the hearts of man. We're in for some interesting times. While I will not be posting here, I will still be available in email for a while for those who wish to seek me out. I wish you all well and good luck for the future. Bob Westbrook Message: #7180, S/3 Abductions Date: Fri, Aug 5, 1994 3:22:10 PM Subject: #6870-Catch a Gray ? From: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #7196 (1 reply) Bob Anello asks: > Its obvious from all accounts that they are very predictable in following >procedures and the sequence of their actions very rarely changes. But with >that hive intellect, I would think we humans are very unpredictable to them as >we all are quite different from each other. For this reason I tossed up the >question about whether or not they really know us. Yes, I know you believe >their scheme has been orchestrated for thousands of years and they've had this >long-time "practice" to know everything about us. But......hasn't there been >any time in your opinion that we humans collectively have been so >unpredictable that we've thrown a monkey-wrench into their plans? And Bob Westbrook answers: >Indeed we can monkey wrench their plans. But first about the hive. >The Grays have a hive mentality and must stay within it. The Nordics >and Hybrids can connect to the hive, but it's optional. They are allowed >a degree of independant thought. This naturally makes me think of the Star Trek episodes about the Borg. . . I'm fascinated by this description of aliens, it very muchs changes my view on such things as the nature of how they are "undead" or use undead technology to mantain immortality. Bob & Bob , What do you know about these hives, the dynamics by which it operates as a hive, and most importantly, the limitations of the hive mentality; what it can and can't do? Myke Message: #7196, S/3 Abductions Date: Fri, Aug 5, 1994 6:05:03 PM Subject: #7180-Catch a Gray ? From: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 To: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 Myke: The hive produces a nonindividual state of being. You are a part of the whole without your own identity. The Borg is a good example. They have all the animal survival instincts most living creatures have, but can not make the leap of faith needed for imagination. They are extremely limited to the service functions for which they were designed. I wouldn't describe immortality as being 'undead'. It gives imagery of vampires. A matter of perspective I imagine. Bob Message: #270080, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Fri, Aug 5, 1994 11:02:25 PM Subject: #269955-Believe ! Westbrook !! From: Hardy Rupp 100336,255 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) >> I am truthful and write it as I see it, and occasion >> injecting some wit and humor to keep the crowd from getting bored. and you did it well, even if i don't agree with your ideas, westbrook. as i said, you made one color in my colorbox and i'm shure everyone in the forum enjoyed having talked to you. i'm sorry if you felt hurt by my quick letters, on my side they were ment kind-hearted. one love hardy Message: #270110, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Aug 6, 1994 1:03:22 AM Subject: #269956-Farewell From: *Xena* 72230,2401 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Bob, Nice meeting you online. Take care. Keep in touch if there's anything important? Cindy/Xena Message: #270113, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Aug 6, 1994 1:12:03 AM Subject: #269956-Farewell From: Marty 70223,151 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) To westbrook or whoever chooses to read this, I got but one thing to say. It's one of the 2 quotes I've found to have any insight, that've been said on Star Trek. And how ironic, eh? "The universe is not so badly designed." If a purpose is needed for you in life - please don't preach of a destruction or war & your grand purpose of warning & search in the scheme of things. In my heart, where it counts, I know this won't come to pass. And quite frankly - it's not a "what if" situation. They're selling messiahs by the crate, now they've come out with the Intergalactic Messiah! (maybe more than 1 thing to say ) Marty Message: #270132, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Aug 6, 1994 3:13:05 AM Subject: #269956-Farewell From: Peter Partridge/UFOLOGY 70762,1512 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #270173 (1 reply) Hi Bob, I'm sorry to hear you've decided to depart for good from this forum as I've enjoyed almost all of your contributions, and I remain fascinated by your evolving story. Even your accusation of my being "thought police" for trying to steer you away from another flaming argument here was, perhaps unintentionally, good for a laugh. Anyway, I hope you change your mind and come back with updates from time to time. If not, I'll harrass you by email occasionally to satisfy my curiosity about your personal crusade against the flying forces of evil. I don't mean to sound flippant in saying that as I have experienced a similar intrusion into my life and I would have preferred to remain your ally as you uncovered more about the nature of the enemy, the good guys and the battles ahead. Regardless, take care and sincere thanks for your participation with us. Pete Message: #7240, S/3 Abductions Date: Sat, Aug 6, 1994 5:04:00 AM Subject: #7196-Catch a Gray ? From: Myke Reynolds 74660,1740 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 >The hive produces a nonindividual state of being. You are a part of the >whole without your own identity. The Borg is a good example. They >have all the animal survival instincts most living creatures have, >but can not make the leap of faith needed for imagination. They are >extremely limited to the service functions for which they were designed. There are very different sorts of hive members aren't there? As in, full time members, those that are inseperable, and others who can disconnect and have varying amounts of independent will. These later guys must have a very strange dual-existance, part insect hive, part independent will. . . >I wouldn't describe immortality as being 'undead'. It gives imagery >of vampires. A matter of perspective I imagine. How is their immortality involved this? I think theres more to it than simply that they take a pill and live forever. . . I think this genetic cyborg technology is involved somehow. Myke Message: #270383, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Aug 6, 1994 8:38:17 PM Subject: #269956-Farewell From: Alain Beaulieu/ASYSOP 70403,3645 To: westbrook 71705,262 We will miss you. Be sure to drop in once in a while for updates though. Alain Message: #270402, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Aug 6, 1994 10:04:26 PM Subject: #269956-Farewell From: Jack Boyle 70322,2171 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Bob, Sorry to see you go. You were one of my main reasons for hanging out here. I wish you the best of luck in the coming years. Jack Message: #270406, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sat, Aug 6, 1994 10:12:24 PM Subject: #269956-Farewell From: Robert C. Arthurs II 71052,1146 To: westbrook 71705,262 (received) Bob, Good luck! Sorry to see you go, I enjoyed the information you presented here. Best wishes, Bob. Message: #270630, S/16 UFOlogy/Contacts Date: Sun, Aug 7, 1994 4:02:17 PM Subject: #269956-Farewell From: Shannon + Sara Smith 73521,3045 To: westbrook 71705,262 Thanks Bob. Your input will be missed here. I wish you well and good luck for the future. Sara :-) Message: #7394, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Mon, Aug 8, 1994 9:34:31 AM Subject: #7195-F cage Confirmed!! From: Frank Turner 72540,736 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 Yeah- I'd say that's correct. Or at least it's a good hypothesis. OTOH, sometimes I think we're all crazy. Message: #7438, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Mon, Aug 8, 1994 7:54:27 PM Subject: Your abduction From: David M. Cvet 74267,2064 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 (received) Reply: #7441 (1 reply) Bob: I read with intense interest your script of the encounter you had experienced along with Angelfish in Hawaii. Your account was extremely interesting and fantastic. I have a casual interest in this sort of stuff over the years and have, for some reason, felt some sort of affinity for abductions and UFO and the like. I don't understand why, but it's always been there. I do have an experience that I had when as a child. I would like to describe it to you, however, details are extremely fuzzy and sparse. The only thing that is outstanding, that I can remember is the feeling of time lost. I believe that I was about 7 years old. I remember it was around Nov, 1962. The point was that it was November 1962, not September. It was like I missed the rest of September, completely missed October and was in November. I remember asking my dad what month it was and he told me. Yet there was nothing apparently wrong. I wasn't missed or nothing unusal happened. I guess that this is a pretty weak account, but its the best I can do. I have often thought about going under hypnosis to try to wrench this from my deepest parts of my mind. I have also experienced various "psychic" phenomena over the years. Nothing earth shattering, but things. I don't know why I'm telling you this stuff. Perhaps you recognize something. Perhaps I am not "crazy" or odd. Maybe you can shed some light on the subject. If this is only an over active imagination, then tell me. Are these the manifestations of an earlier incident? I don't know. Anyway, you can ignore this message and I will understand. You must get a lot of this sort of thing. I want to believe that yours and Anglefish's experiences are true and encompass another reality. One that humans cannot touch because of their focus on only the tangible realities. Good luck with the "greys". David Message: #7609, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Wed, Aug 10, 1994 8:31:28 PM Subject: #5678-UFO Encounter From: Laura Roy 74507,3520 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 Bob: Do you know about the contactee book wrtten by Lt. Col.Wendelle Stevens. We are trying to locate it?How immediate was your intelligence reaction? Do you feel that it was intracranial? I think that is very interesting. I remember seeing videos stating that a metallic pellet was placed in the nose, through the nostril into the pineal gland. Laura Message: #8326, S/1 UFO/Alien Contact Date: Tue, Aug 16, 1994 2:06:09 PM Subject: #6692-Catch a Gray ? From: ALVIN B MCCLURE 76660,2170 To: Bob Westbrook 71705,262 Bob, I've been following this thread for the last few weeks, and I want to say I really appreciate ALL the information provided. As I read the descriptions of the Nordics, grays, and Noshuimes (sp?) I was struck by the similarity to beings described by Carlos Castenedas nin his most recent Don Juan book. According to him, the old ones (early sorcerers) discovered this ability to keep their life forces going and essentially become immortal. Could they be one and the same beings? Inquiring minds want to know

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