Note: The following is a transcript of a phone conversation between
Tom Mickus and Dr. Eric Walker which took place at approximately
10:30am on the morning of August 11, 1989. One word of caution,
a transcript of course is not the same as hearing it first-hand.
Tone and emphases of speech are not reproduced here, nor are
things such as pauses between responses recorded. Therefore
those who read the following should be aware of such deficiencies
before coming to any conclusions.
"Good morning, Dr. Walker's office."
"Yes, would Dr. Walker be in?"
"Yes he is, may I tell him who's calling?"
"Yes, this is Tom Mickus phoning, I called yesterday."
"Okay, and what company are you with please?"
"Actually I'm a university student."
"Okay, just a minute please."
(20 second pause)
"Hello, Mr. Walker?"
"Yeah, my name is, allow me to introduce myself, my name is
Tom Mickus, I'm a university student here in Toronto, at the
University of Toronto.
"And I'm phoning from Toronto right now. I'm also a reporter
with a computer BBS network. And just recently, actually two
days ago, we came into possession of a just released
research paper. It was put out by researchers Grant Cameron
and T. Scott Crain. You may be familiar with them? The
subject matter is quite controversial. The report itself is
180 pages and approximately 80 pages deal with yourself and
some of the reputed statements that you've made, etc. And
I'm just wondering if you'd be interested in making a comment
about the veracity of some of those statements.
"I'm not sure I know what you're talking about."
"Tell me a little bit more."
"Yeah, do you remember corresponding with someone by the
name of William Steinman?"
"Or Scott Crain, he supposedly lives close to you there in
"You know, I know nothing about this. I'm... Have you got
the right Walker, that's the problem .
"Well, you're the former President of Penn State University?"
"Yes, and you do have a very distinguished background I might
say, just from some of the material thats been released. So, I
guess assuming this is the right Walker, apparently you've
admitted to in the past when dealing with some of these
gentlemen, if you maybe forget them (now), about attending
Research & Development Board meetings in the early 50's,
back when you were a dollar-a-year man. Is that substantially
"Well I, huh , the early 50's you know is many
years ago and I attended a lot of meetings. Which one was
this supposed to be?
"I believe this was centered at the Wright-Patterson.
Apparently it was to deal with, sensational as it is, crashed
flying vehicles of some sort, UFOs if you want to say that.
And, like I say, I know its many years ago, but apparently
in a phone conversation with William Steinman, he has it down
that you admitted attending some of those meetings. Indeed,
it was the late Robert Sarbacher actually pointed you out as
the person who attended all of those meetings. Now I know
that's some 40 yrs ago now. Did you have any comment on that?
"(garbled)...well I did attend a lot of meetings, but I can't
remember any substantive conclusions or anything like that.
"Right, and as far as what was discussed there?"
"As far as the what?"
"What was discussed, the topic, the subject matter of those
"No, I couldn't remember that at all."
"But, you're saying that it had nothing to do with UFOs or
alien bodies, or anything like this?"
"Well I don't have any alien bodies in my office, I can tell
"Well, its quite extraordinary that this paper has come out,
right now its in limited circulation and due to the computer
network that I'm associated with, I've managed to obtain a
copy. And, like I say, approximately 80 pages deals with
material centered around yourself..."
"...and, I'm just interested if you'd be interested in seeing
some of this, if I could come down and meet you for instance?
And you could see some of this stuff first-hand, and comment
"Well, I don't think that would be very useful; you might
want to send it to me, and I'll see if it reminds me of
"Un huh. I guess being, ..from my own disposition here with
the Network and stuff, I'd be interested in trying to get a
reaction about some of this because..if these authors have
engaged in a bit of a fantasy, well then I would like to
"What's the Network, I don't understand."
"Its a fairly modest undertaking, but its a group of Bulletin
Board Systems linked up here in Canada and in the United
States, and that's something which I run, and this subject
matter is one of the things we primarily discuss. And so,
that's why I'd take the time to talk with you, and come visit
you if you wouldn't mind, and get a more in-depth response.
"Well, you know , this sounds to me like an
awful waste of time and...if people want to diddle around
that way, I say let them diddle, but don't involve me."
"I just don't have time for such crap."
"Now, just the fact that they spent so much time in this
paper...like I say, the paper is 180 pages, the title is
'UFOs, MJ-12 AND THE GOVERNMENT', and...I mean would you
have any reaction as to why they would place you in that
"Well I'll tell ya, I'll get interested when I see one of
of those little green men they talk about. Until they do,
I just couldn't spend any time on it."
"So, therefore you deny ever having any relationship whatsoever
in your earlier government dealings with the discussion of UFOs
or alien bodies, anything like that, you deny that was part of
the Research & Development Board meetings and subsequent
activities that you may have been involved with?"
" You know, you're just wasting your time and
money, and I'm sorry but I've got other things to do."
"Okay, but if I could just get an on the record comment,
response from you on that, because I don't know, I think you
may be hearing more about this because if this thing gets
in wide circulation you may have other people knocking on
your door trying to get a reaction."
"I don't have any reaction, I'm sorry."
"Do you deny it?"