Transcription of interview on Radio 4 PM.
Studio."...Children from Rochdale who are involved in allegations of
ritualistic child abuse. The children were made wards of court after claims
that they had been subjected to emotional and sometimes physical abuse
during whats been loosley termed "satanic" rituals. Five children have
since been returned to their parents. Meanwhile the director of S.S. in
nearby Manchester confirmed today that 13 children there have been taken
into care since late last year in connection of similar allegations, though
there is no direct link with the Rochdale investigation. P.A.I.N. claim
that recommendations in the Buttler-Shloss inquiry into events in Cleavland
wernt followed in Rochdale, their chairman, David Monk, outlined his
David Monk(PAIN)"it's clearly shown that Cleavland was not a one off. I
think following Cleavland the Dept of health issued a guidance document
which is called "working together" and whats happend is some local
authorities have incorporated those recommenations into their policies, but
other authorities have virtually ignored them."
Studio "Where do you say Rochdale did'nt follow the Buttler/shloss
D.M. "..Well I think there was some fundamental principals inshrined in
those recommendations, one of which was that parents should be involved in
case conferences. And I understand that in Rochdale they were not notified,
either verbally or in writing, or given the right to attend. As a result of
that they were, they did'nt infact have their basic human rights of hear
the allegations and be able to make reply to those allegation, they did'nt
have those met. Secondly,ermm, we are concerned about the length of time
that seems to have been taken over the investigaive interviews, ermm, and
in fact after six months of the children removed from their parents and not
having access to their parents some of those investigative assessements are
still taking place, and we would suggest there need to be a time limit on
Studio." What do you want this enquiry to establish?"
D.M. "I think that one of the things we would like from the enquiry is to
suggest that some of these guidlines that the dept of health have been
laying down need to have some power behind them and perhapes need to be
Studio "Some of the details of what is alleged to have happend to these
children are quite horrific is'nt it of the utmost concern that the
children should be protected from parents who may be exposing them to
allsorts of..very strange things. Is'nt that the primary concern of S.S.?"
D.M." That must be the primary concern, but there is a danger that if you
remove children for six months, and not allow them accsess to their
parents, and they turn out to have been normal loving parents, the abuse
that you will have done to that child could be as great or greater than the
abuse you are trying to protect them from.
Studio "David Monk, chairman of PAIN. Well Bob Lewis is honorary secretary
of the association of directors of social services, and he's taken a close
interest in the case. I asked him if he would welcome an official enquiry."
Bob Lewis "I think the call is very premature. First of all as I understand
it the S.S. committee in Rochdale are to recieve a report tomorrow, and
they will have to obviously will have to make a decision as to wether they
are satisfied with the way in which their staff have delt with the
investigation so far. Secondly I would remind you as against in Cleavland
the local authority approching magistrates and obtaining place of safety
orders, and interim care orders, which are more difficult, if not
immpossible to challenge. In Rochdales case they did go to the high court,
they wardship initialy only ran for 21 days and they had to go back to the
high court with fer,,, with the evidence that gave them concern and to
prove to the judge that they had grounds for their concern. And of course
in a wardship case it is possible for a parent or another party to
challenge the wardship ruling at any time."
Studio "Bob Lewis"