Msg#: 67 SATANIC RUMOR 06/20/87 15:12:25 (Read 158 Times) To: ALL Subj: SATAN FACT OR FICT

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Msg#: 67 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 06/20/87 15:12:25 (Read 158 Times) From: COSMIC MESSIAH To: ALL Subj: SATAN FACT OR FICTION The Truth about the Satan and his Origin. Man tends to worship that which he fears, to pledge his allegiance to forces beyond his control, to placate the gods whatever he concevies them to be. When new gods appear, man dethrones his old gods without having to deny thier power, by simply making demons of them. One of Indias' greatest gods is "the goddess of a hundred names", which represents nature in both its creative and destructive guises. To Buddhist of Tibet this same goddess is a devilish demon called mKha's Groma. In Egypt Set was dethroned when the worship of Osiris dominated Egyptain culture, as time passed Set was increasingly linked with discord, disease, evil and violence, until finally he was known only as the god of night and darkness. Herne the Hunter, whose appearance was strikingly similar to that of the horned god of hunting, was a vicious woodland demon of England. The daevas, gods of India and Iran, were the devils of the Zoroastrian system. The early Christians rebelled against the horned god of hunting, long worshiped by the pagan or primitive folk of the countryside , and neither found it nessary to deny the former god, but only had to point out the evil inherent in its nature to find converts from amoung the ranks of the older order. Early Christians found the wildness and sexuality of many of the older gods made them suitable representivites for christian Demonology. Baal, the two-horned nature god of the Phoenicians and Syrians, conqured death, chaos and drought. But by biblical times he become the greatest rival of the Lord God of Israel. Pan, Dionysus, Isis, Lucifer, Belial, Beelzebub, Apollo and the satyrs all came to represent the powers of evil. William Woods in "A History of the Devil" points out that refrences in the Old Testament and Talmud go no further than casting him as "a divinity belonging to some other tribe". Lucifer is called "the son of the morning" by the prophet Isaiah and in II Kings Baal is refered to as "an oracular deity of the Ekronites." Only in the New Testament is he called "prince of the demons." In the temptations of Job, Satan appears not as a devil but as an adversary of God and is in fact introduced as "one of the sons of God." In the early days Satan had been a spirit but by the Fifth Century, he had become weighty, and of course visible. God became the guiding light of the establishment, and thus if only by implacation, the devil (became) the leader of thoese who opposed them. In thoese early days there were many who opposed the powers of the established order. There were thoes who refused to give up the old religion, for the old gods suited the humble folk far better than the new, whise, agents were sever taskmasters who brought bloodshed and terror. Thus it was in the fight to stamp out the old religion that the devil was concived by the so called desert fauthers who piced together from thier recolections of gods (such as the cloven-footed Pan) the visulation of the Devil as the grotesque man. Woods writes, "our devil is almost entirely an invention of Hebrew moral law and the Christian church." And so it was that the devil was legalized by the Council of Toledo in A.D. 447 and Staan beacme as Woods States, "an efficient cat-o-nine-talis with which to whip people into line. Women who knew the old legends and magic traditions were turned into witches. Traditional gatherings like the druids festival, the bacchanals, the Diana feasts, became the witches Sabbath. The broom, acient symbol of the sacred hearth, became the evil tool of the witch's flight. Wherver the voice of freedom was heard or an original idea was expressed the athorities deceted the activities of Satan. The theroy of witchcraft was initiated by the papacy to warm the fires of puratory and fill the pockets of the cleargy, who burned witches and confiscated thire property for the church. The devils that Christ had seen simply as spirits who possessed and overcame the rational man were now the servants of the one devil who, was unbearably ugly, appearing in this world as an imp, a gargoyle, or a goat with a human face. The devil, now accepted as the evil archenemy of God, was no longer remembered in the establishment circles as the horned god of hunting, the divine goat of Arcadia, the dusii of the celts or Dionysus. His godly heritage had been successfully abolished, his wicked place in the world determend and truly, Lucifer had been cast from heaven. Man makes his divinities, good or evil, in his own image, the result depending on the stage of his personal development and that of the age in which he lives. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor - Los Angeles, CA (1/1) Msg#: 76 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 06/27/87 00:55:32 (Read 132 Times) From: THOMAS KROENKE To: COSMIC MESSIAH (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 67 (SATAN FACT OR FICTION) Your is a very good recap of historical development of the popular Satan. I believe however it misses the point. The real question is not it the popular image of Satan is a correct one, or even that man tends to replace old beliefs with new or to deify that with he fears. I think the real question is one of evil and good. Does evil exist as a force seperate from good or God. Are we to view good and evil as oppisits of the same force or being? In short is the concept of good and evil as forces outside of human thought a valid one? Regards Tom --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor - Los Angeles, CA (1/1) Msg#: 138 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/28/87 20:54:46 (Read 112 Times) From: BUZZ DIXON To: THOMAS KROENKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 76 (SATAN FACT OR FICTION) One other minor quibble in the SATAN FACT OR FICTION msg chain; There was no single Baal to worship. Ba'al meant "lord" and ba'al worship was the worship of local pagan dieties wherever they were, in the brook, on the mountaintop, etc. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor - Los Angeles, CA (1/1) Msg#: 473 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/12/88 01:40:00 (Read 48 Times) From: DAVID BOWMAN To: COSMIC MESSIAH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 138 (RE: SATAN FACT OR FICTION) The Devil is a fiction invented by the "Christians" to explain away the presence of "evil". I believe that they used the image of PAN because they have good reason to fear Him. The Devil reminds me of the stuff my family used to tell me as a child when they sought to control me. Besides, as long as there is an enemy to fight, no one has time to notice all the things wrong at home (or in the country or in the religon in question). --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 486 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/13/88 23:31:00 (Read 44 Times) From: MOON DOG To: DAVID BOWMAN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 473 (RE: SATAN FACT OR FICTION) There's an old saying concerning religions, David. "The gods of the old become the demons of the new..." And it's quite true. What would be more logical than to convince your followers that the "old gods" were really demons who were intent upon deceiving and causing harm??? Once they've bought that line, you've got 'em. MOON DOG --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 490 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/15/88 23:28:11 (Read 45 Times) From: STEVEN GRANT To: MOON DOG Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 486 (RE: SATAN FACT OR FICTION) Actually, a lot of the gods of old -- and their sacred places -- were absorbed by the Church and converted into saints and their shrines. Those they couldn't assimilate by this means -- usually the most powerful gods (I'm speaking in terms of their grip on the imagination, not in terms of any real power) -- were converted into demons and declared anathema... --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 498 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/14/88 23:16:00 (Read 44 Times) From: DAVID BOWMAN To: MOON DOG Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 490 (RE: SATAN FACT OR FICTION) Moon Dog, I couldn't agree with you more. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 501 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/16/88 17:50:41 (Read 44 Times) From: SUSAN SAFEL To: THOMAS KROENKE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 76 (SATAN FACT OR FICTION) As far as God and Satan go they are just names given to the positive and negitive "cosmic" forces. Light is good.. many people choose to follow that path. And there are "Angels" and "Demons" but they are just forces from different paths. The Bible is not wrong, just misinterpreted. Susan --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 521 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/16/88 20:22:00 (Read 40 Times) From: MOON DOG To: STEVEN GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 501 (RE: SATAN FACT OR FICTION) Also, some powerful beings were turned into "benevolent servants of God", as in the cases of the Archangels Michael, Raphael, Gabriel, and Uriel. (Along with "hosts"(all puns intended) of other "angels".) MOON DOG --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 524 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/17/88 01:29:00 (Read 41 Times) From: DAVID BOWMAN To: STEVEN GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 521 (RE: SATAN FACT OR FICTION) What I find interesting is that Pan terrified them the most of all. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 527 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/18/88 20:43:25 (Read 40 Times) From: STEVEN GRANT To: DAVID BOWMAN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 524 (RE: SATAN FACT OR FICTION) Actually, Dionysus terrified them most of all, as Dionysus has a great many qualities (and titles, like King of Kings) in common with Christ. Pan was identified as a servant/avatar of Dionysus by the early Church... --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 647 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 05/12/88 20:08:24 (Read 31 Times) From: THOMAS KROENKE To: SUSAN SAFEL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 501 (SATAN FACT OR FICTION) Susan, "cosmic" forces?? Please describe. Demons and Angeles?!? Again please describe them and how you know they exist. Regards, Tom K. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 677 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 06/01/88 20:06:39 (Read 31 Times) From: MICHELLE HASS To: COSMIC MESSIAH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 67 (SATAN FACT OR FICTION) What interests me is that there is much in pagan belief, primarily the mysteries of Mithra, Osiris, Dionysius and Tammuz that seem to be almost a carbon copy of Christian concepts of Jesus. There's good proof that Y'shua ben Yousef of Ha'Galil probably existed. There were messiahs galore in ancient Israel. But the supernatural aspects attributed to Jesus, particularly the Resurrection and Virgin Birth, were elements of these mysteries tacked on to the story. I'm sure your'e also aware of the Gilgamesh-Noah connection as well...MK-H --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 759 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 06/18/88 21:06:21 (Read 30 Times) From: ROBIN POMARSON To: COSMIC MESSIAH Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 67 (SATAN FACT OR FICTION) Actually, I have thought of the possibility that Lucifer the angel was simply trying to stop God from becoming too powerful. God promptly threw Lucifer out, called him a "devil", and blamed every subsequent wrong on him. Does this remind you of two other fellas names Stalin and Trotsky? --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 916 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 06/27/88 00:31:00 (Read 18 Times) From: BILL RAGSDALE To: ROBIN POMARSON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 759 (RE: SATAN FACT OR FICTION) The angelic character of Lucifer is a myth, as far as my knowledge of the bible goes. In the passage "how fallen art thou..." in reference to "Lucifer", that referrs to an earthly prince who thought of himself as a God. There are several instances in the bible of satan and his angels falling from heaven, but I have never seen the classic story anywhere in the scriptures. The classic story is the one in which Lucifer was top angel in heaven, decided he wanted to be God, found several sympathizers and was "booted out" of his place. There are scriptures which tell of a great war in heaven, etc....but I think the story has been added to, beyond biblical text. I dont view satan as a real being per se....I hold that satan is the carnality and materialism of this world that blinds man and stands in the way of spiritual growth. It is also the source of death. If there is such a being, most likely his perverse nature is such that he created his own hell rather than God creating this place for him. There are so many things we dont know....that is part of what makes life fun. --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: нн Pillars Of Hercules нн *BoomTown* нн (918)627-7796 (1:170/224) Msg#: 77 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 06/27/87 01:01:14 (Read 149 Times) From: THOMAS KROENKE To: WAYNE BRYANT (Rcvd) Subj: MESSAGES "The devil made me do it!" How many times I've heard that or something very close to it e.g. I was drunk, I was angry, I was desperate. To me it's all the same, a way of avoiding responsibility for ones own acts. If people are allowed to say the devil made me do it or some such non- sence, then by what right do we arrest and punish wrong doers? Our law is clear, if you are "forced" by another into wrongful acts, then you are not responsible. If a man does evil, e.g. something that he knows and understands to be wrong, then that is a choice he alone muct take credit for. Regards Tom --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor - Los Angeles, CA (1/1) Msg#: 299 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 11/11/87 15:55:34 (Read 86 Times) From: BILL BOZO To: WAYNE BRYANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 77 (MESSAGES) Dear Mr. Bryant and Others, I appreciate your eagerness to become more aware of the world around you, and I also appreciate your willingness to hear from others. This is a very important thing; ability to learn from others. When we speak of such things as "evil" or "the devil" we must also consider such things as "good" and "God". All these dualities; good & evil, God & the devil, hot & cold etc., ought to be understood. First of all, what is the definition of "evil" or anything else. This obviously is another crucial point in the clear understanding of anything. For example, I may say that someone was clearly evil, but upon investigation you find out that actually, he is a nice guy. How is this? The reason is that we each have our own rrelative definitions. When we each establish which set of definitions we accept, then we can have a basis for further phlosophical dialog. For example, we may both accept that "killing" or "murder" is a great "evil", but do we both agree that killing an animal for human consumpton is "evil". Some would say yes and some would say no. So by this we can all see that such discussions go deeper than just a casual fireside chat. It was nicely expressed in the opening message of this dialog that that person felt compelled by some external force (the devil, whoever that may be-by definition?) to commit seemingly sinful activities. This was followed up with the reply that this notion of a devil causing us to commit "sin" was merely a cop-out and a means of avoiding your reponsibility as a human being to "take control" of your mind, body and actions. So briefly stated, we need to understand some basic philosophical points; 1) what is a definition of sin 2) who is the devil if there is such a thing/person 3) how accountable are we for the things we do or are forced to do by external/internal forces 4) and most importantly, whose opinion on these subject matters are we going to accept as a final authoritative decision? 5) then who is an authority and 6) what are the qualifications of an authority. In this connection the previous two gentlemen on this message section both made some very "authoritative" statements about some very crucial subject matters, but the question remains, "are they qualified to make such statements?". If not, then who is? If so, then where do they derive their authority, or are they the ultimate authority? I am not saying either way or the other, but that we must carefully consider these points before entering into any serious search for the truth. Now I could sit here and give you my definitions on these subject matters, but again what is my authority to do so. Even if I wre to claim t be some bona fide authority on these subject matters, would any one accept that "self-proclaimed authority"? So we must question the definitions we ourselves hold, and then ask where we got them from; the local priest, our parents, our friends, our own speculations, the television, a magazine, etc....? Are any of these sources real authorities on any of these subject matters? Who really knows for sure? Aother question we sshould all be asking (being users on this bullitin board) is what is the definition of a "cult". Anyway, I think that this open dialog of ideas and opinions is very good, and I would like to thank woever is responsible for starting up this system. I invite everyone out there to a challenge. The challenge is for everyone to closely examine their personal definitions of these various topics {namely: 1)what is "sin" 2) "the devil" 3) what is a "cult" 4) who s "God" and any other related topic. After etering your ddefinition, then the real challenge is to figure out where you got this definition, in othe words who you accepted as an authority. Then I challenge you to come up with a definition for who qualifies as an authority. And when you have done all that then I think we can all have a more in depth and honest understanding of what we really accept as truth, and why we accept it. For those of you out there who are interested in these subject matters, I invite you to reply to my challenge and look forward to seeing what you believe......and more importantly, why you believe it. Sincerely Trying To Understand Life, BILL BOZO --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 123 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/27/87 00:24:37 (Read 70 Times) From: PHILIP RAILSBACK To: BOB MORRIS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 98 (NEW BOOK) The book you're talking about is called THE ULTIMATE EVIL by Maury Terry (check the spelling on that). I have heard enthusiastic comments from a couple of people who have read it. The thesis of the book seems a bit far fetched to me, however. As you said it attempts to connect the Manson Family and Son of Sam killings through an orginazation called the Process. I'm planning on reading the book fairly soon. I'd sure like to see a major review or two by some people who know more about this sort of thing. -Philip --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor - Los Angeles, CA (1/1) Msg#: 373 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 02/10/88 19:36:09 (Read 29 Times) From: MARIE JOHNSON To: BOB MORRIS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 98 (NEW BOOK) I've read the book. The name is " The Ultimate Evil" by Maury Terry. It's spooky stuff. I'm not sure at all that I buy his premises, but it was an interesting read. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 2541 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 09/23/88 10:17:21 (Read 18 Times) From: SYSOP To: PHILIP RAILSBACK Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 123 (NEW BOOK) I agree Maury Terry's book is scary stuff. I particularly disagree with his statement that there cannot be a cult without drugs. That is untrue. I am also skeptical of many of his conclusions: when Terry investigated the site where the body was found off the 5 on Hungry Hollow, he found an open Bible. It is my impression he therefore concludes it was a "satanic" crime. What ever happened to coincidence and evidence? Msg#: 2548 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 09/23/88 21:24:34 (Read 20 Times) From: JOE TOTARO To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2541 (NEW BOOK) I'll admit that some of Maury Terry's methods are underhanded, but an open Bible under a low bush behind a corpse in the middle of nowhere? I'd say the odds are against it. Besides, the "tokens" left at such scenes are not unique -- in fact they're a consistent pattern of physical evidence in these crimes. There is something about low-level satanists that drivesthem to scrawl everywhere -- even at the scenes of capital crimes, when a normal (sane) person wouDid think TWICE about leaving ANYTHING incriminating behind. I'd remind you of the killings by John Kogut in Lynbrook, L.I. , the slaying of the couple in West Patterson, N.J. (which was deliberately ceremonial). As to drugs: With whackos like the above (leaving Bibles, hair, grafitti, etc. behind at murder scenes or with dumped bodies) -- are you REALLY surprised their brains are fried? They're imbeciles, clearly. What's really interesting is the people who find them useful -- who share their values & rites but stay in the shadows and use these fools for their criminal enterprises and for vicarious thrills. Ciao GT Msg#: 2553 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 09/24/88 22:37:23 (Read 23 Times) From: SYSOP To: JOE TOTARO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2548 (NEW BOOK) Have you been in touch with the New York/New Jersey Cult Awareness Network? There was a very interesting commentary in their most recent newsletter questioning whether CAN should deal with these activities. Yes, there are surely nuts and bimbos out there doing horrid things but that does not qualify them as destructive groups with authoritarian control, enslavement, deception or thought reform. They are criminal activities and must be looked at as that. We need tons more evidence to prove there is any kind of network, let alone a giant conspiracy. When I hear any wiff of conspiracy, I have to fear Lyndon LaRouche has made his mark on our society and I quake. Msg#: 145 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/31/87 21:39:54 (Read 66 Times) From: BUZZ DIXON To: JASON MOORE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 140 (FOI DOCUMENT) Maury Terry's excellent book, THE ULTIMATE EVIL, makes a pretty convince case for a connection between the Son of SAm killings and the remnants of the Process Church of the Final Judgement, a weird occult/satanic group that was founded by two former members of Scientology. One of the Process' favorite ploys is to infiltrate groups like the Scientologiests, est, Moonies, etc to look for potential recruits to their cult; the infiltrators will try to get positions as counselors, therapists, auditors, etc. in whichever group and channel the more promising members off to the Process Church. Manson was a Processian and claimed as much when he was arrested; apparently a couple of people from cult HQ showed up while he was in jail and told him to keep his mouth shut about the cult or else. You really ought to get THE ULTIMATE EVIL and take a look at it; it'll send hackles straight up your back. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor - Los Angeles, CA (1/1) Msg#: 146 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/31/87 23:29:25 (Read 69 Times) From: STEVEN GRANT To: BUZZ DIXON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 145 (FOI DOCUMENT) Amen to that, Buzz. THE ULTIMATE EVIL is damned near close to the ultimate cult book. I'd love to get Maury Terry tied into this board... --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor - Los Angeles, CA (1/1) Msg#: 185 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 08/25/87 15:28:17 (Read 68 Times) From: JASON MOORE To: BUZZ DIXON (Rcvd) Subj: PROCESS CHURCH MANSON OCCULT (Buzz I used such a strange "subj:" so each phrase can be used as a keyword search using "selective retrieval" on this board.) Thanks for the information on the book "Ultimate Evil". I will try to get the book. Until then, I wonder if you could look up what the names of the former scientologists were. It is my understanding that Manson, imprisoned around 1961 (before the murders) had a scientology cell mate--a guy with the last name of "Ramer". Manson claimed to have gone "clear" in prison. The Manson connection was a "PTS" (potential trouble source) for the church, and Church PR started tracking it down. I have heard there are lengthy documents of research the Church did on this subject in the public domain. I also heard that in the book Helter Skelter, that author Vince Bugliosi was "caved-in" (church jargon) from printing any scientology reference in the book. Although , certain Homicide Detectives whom investigated the tragic murders mention the connection. Interesting is that Manson, and Watson are up to the same sort of religiouso branwash tricks. I hear Manson is associated with "the Church of Jesus Christ Christian--Aryan Nations--the KKK-like prison religion for controlling ethnics; and Tex Watson is a prison chaplin, claiming to be born again. Your Process Church is real interesting. Help me learn more about it. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor - Los Angeles, CA (1/1) Msg#: 189 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 08/26/87 16:42:00 (Read 67 Times) From: BUZZ DIXON To: JASON MOORE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 185 (PROCESS CHURCH MANSON OCCULT) According to LARSEN'S BOOK OF CULTS, the Process Church of the Final Judgement was founded by Robert de Grimson. This same info appears in THE ULTIMATE EVIL but I forget which chapter (Terry didn't provide an index -- rats!); however Terry also reveals Grimson's real name, his wife's name, and goes into more history of the cult. The basic Processian teaching was: "Jesus says love your enemies. Satan is the enemy of God. Therefore we should love Satan." Grimson and his wife were English members of the Church of SCientology but split off in the late fifties. The Process Church flowered in the early and mid-sixties but started to decline in the early seventies. Terry ascribes this to the number of small cults, covens, churches, whatever, that sprang up nationwide; they all gradually splintered away from the main church. There are several known Process spl;inter groups including The Foundation Faith of the Millenium and the Foundation Faith of God. And there are the various splinter groups Terry cites in THE ULTIMATE EVIL. I don't know what their current status is. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor - Los Angeles, CA (1/1) Msg#: 379 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 02/16/88 01:39:00 (Read 52 Times) From: GAME MASTER To: ALL Subj: SATANIC SHIT Ok, Now I've seen it all... A satanic area on a bbs. (God I wish I had one! I run a haunted motel that leads to hell! Haha) Anyway. If your all really interseted in the true evil one... look at the Japanese literature and you'll see the Ying-Yang is the representation of God verses Devil or Good verses evil. So if ya look at the vast majority of life... And their belifes in such... You will find that there really isn't a devil... Or a fallen one... Cause god forgives all... so if he fell, he was forgiven. And one speculative satanic worshiper once told me, there really is no devil... What we belive is the devil is really the dark side of us. The part we hid from the light. Cause if we release it to the world, we show how primative we really are and in a sense show the devil in us all... The need to hunt and survive. So rest your fears... The great evil and anti-christ won't show up, cause from what alot of people have predicted... he was supposed to have been here last year and the world was to have been destroyed by today... (Cute isn't it? Today was the end of the world... well really yesterday at 11pm. Have a book of some profit who predicted the year and day... Wrong day... right year for the month, but wrong day!) So in essence if ya wanna belive in the devil... he's real. If ya don't... he's really a part of us deep inside trying to survive. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Computer Connections - Hoboken,NJ. HST 9600 (201)-798-0065 Msg#: 384 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 02/21/88 10:26:11 (Read 54 Times) From: DAVID RICE To: GAME MASTER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 379 (SATANIC SHIT) I believe that's "Yin/Yang", not "Ying-Yang" --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 385 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 02/21/88 11:07:08 (Read 49 Times) From: MICHAEL JEMKINS To: BOB HENRY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 384 (SATANIC SHIT) You are incorrect. I have read the news reports regarding the Aquino affair. He was NEVER charged with child molestation. He was investigated for it. No charges were made, none are pending. Get your info right before you pass around that type of damaging gossip. It is obvious the whole point of the Oprah Show went by you. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 386 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 02/21/88 22:35:21 (Read 46 Times) From: SYSOP To: MICHAEL JEMKINS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 385 (SATANIC SHIT) It would be nice for you to say what the point of the show was for the people who didn't see it. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 388 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 02/21/88 14:47:00 (Read 44 Times) From: GAME MASTER To: BOB HENRY Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 386 (RE: SATANIC SHIT) Well I didn't say there weren't any exceptions... The general rule to all is the practice of black magic that deals with spells and hair and shit... But there are those who go over the line. Those jerks are the dangerous ones... But if you ci=onsider the facts... They are nuts anyway, not due to their religion... They just want to kill, but prefer to have a reason unlike the common killer who goes out and kills a few hundred just for the fuck of it. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Computer Connections - Hoboken,NJ. HST 9600 (201)-798-0065 Msg#: 392 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 02/22/88 12:09:00 (Read 46 Times) From: GAME MASTER To: DAVID RICE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 388 (RE: SATANIC SHIT) Well, no one said I was perfect... thanks for the help in correcting my spelling. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Computer Connections - Hoboken,NJ. HST 9600 (201)-798-0065 Msg#: 393 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 02/22/88 12:12:00 (Read 41 Times) From: GAME MASTER To: ALL Subj: SATANIC SHIT AGAIN! Well let me take a slight pole here... Since we all feel differently in the belief of the devils existance... 1 --- How many here belive there really is a devil? 2 --- How many don't belive? 3 --- How many feel there is a great evel but it has no form? 4 --- How many feel the Black and White Magic are the two forms of expression for the two great forces? Now, as I had said and asked in a few other confrences... I belive in magic... But not as you belive in it. I belived in it like Merlin did... No evil magic... Just evil people who use the magic for their own gain. I belive in a superior force that creats and controls magical events. I belive in Evil... But not in the force of evil... or the devil... But in the Power it contains... Evil is just the dark side of good... People loved the day but feared the night... The night was assumed to be the Evil time. Day was the good time. I feel that the power of evil is created by us and can be destroyed by us... We control it's very existance and if we wish we can discard it forever. Good is the same way. People who choose the paths they follow never really know that there are more than two paths... A good path and a Bad path... There's also their own path that they must make themselves by simply knowing what they feel is right. You all were raised in a religous form of one way or another... and were incouraged to practice that activity till you decided you didn't want to anymore... I wasn't incouraged... I chose to make my own path and go by what I feel is right... And people... That really is the smart move... but this is my opinion. You all in one way or another belive in a magical force called evil... I don't... I belive each creats that force he needs to belive in. Look at the past... Every culture had a religon of some kind that delt with good and evil... or if you prefer a light side and a dark side... I belive there is no side... You make the sides inside you. Well I gabbed enough... See ya all later. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Computer Connections - Hoboken,NJ. HST 9600 (201)-798-0065 Msg#: 396 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 02/23/88 16:09:00 (Read 42 Times) From: WILD BRAZILIAN To: ALL Subj: DEVIL POSSESION AREA:CULT_MONITOR Hi. I just wanted to get a fact straight! These ass holes you see on shows like Oprah saying they were possesed by the devil is BULLSHIT! The devil is a lazy person who has OTHER people do his work. Usually some ass hole entity will go and possess a person and cause him/her to do something they would normally not do! And the person (as well as the entity) get the Karma for it!!!!!! Yes, ALL entitys reincarnate.. All beings reincarnate (usually to a higher level). I just wanted to point out the the devil possesionshi[ is BS! -Wild --- * Origin: GrapeVine - Head first dive with the drive! (Opus 1:141/760) Msg#: 448 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/08/88 20:30:00 (Read 38 Times) From: LADY QUICHE To: WILD BRAZILIAN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 396 (RE: DEVIL POSSESION) YOU ARE RIGT. tHE DEVI;L--(OK LET ME START OVER) You are right. The devil is a lazy person that has others do his dirty work! He is ,however, not omniscient, He will pick on a strong willed person and tempt that person. If the person resists, the devil will leave them alone. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 554 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/21/88 17:24:00 (Read 30 Times) From: WILD BRAZILIAN To: LADY QUICHE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 448 (RE: DEVIL POSSESION) > You are right. The devil is a lazy person that has others do his > dirty work! He is ,however, not omniscient, He will pick on a > strong willed person and tempt that person. If the person > resists, the devil will leave them alone. I couldn't have said it better myself!! You are probably the first who aggrees and understands what I am saying! Have a good one! -Wild B --- OverDrive b.15 * Origin: Heartbreak Hotel, America's WOC address 203-270-1913 (141/790) Msg#: 593 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/26/88 08:49:00 (Read 30 Times) From: LADY QUICHE To: WILD BRAZILIAN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 554 (RE: DEVIL POSSESION) Gee, thanx. Not all of the people I know agree with me in this area. Thank you for your input! --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 678 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 06/01/88 20:17:12 (Read 23 Times) From: MICHELLE HASS To: WILD BRAZILIAN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 396 (DEVIL POSSESION) In the tradition that I am a part of (shamanism) there is acknowledgement of a negative force as well as a positive force. In Chiricahua Athapascan, this force is collectively identified as the Gan'n (both a singular and plural form) The Gan'n were originally identified as entities living in the mountains, but since the Chiricahua Teneh were moved away from their holy place in SE Arizona, they have used that term to refer to any discarnate entity that is of a non-good nature. I worry about channelers, because when one opens themselves up to discarnates of any sort, you have the chance of contacting these nasties. The "earthbounds" (spirits of the departed that are either lost or refuse to go "home") are almost as bad, being as most of them are very jealous of the living and want to relive the sensations of being embodied, and that they are, in general, very disturbed in a clinical sense, and some are downright Psychotic. Either one can literally take over your mind if you're not careful. That's why when my board is up, I am NOT going to run channelled material. That includes "The Book Of The Law", or anything having to do with "A Course In Miracles". Both are channeled. Then again, some believe that the Bible is also "channelled". Then again, wot do I know? Michelle Klein-Hass --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 404 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/01/88 23:50:00 (Read 42 Times) From: LORD METALLICA To: ALL Subj: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS First of all, I didn't get to see the Oprah Winfrey show with Mr. Aquino (what was his full name, by the way?) because I was at work. My mother said she heard he was the High Priest of the First Church of Satan at Chicago and was a staunch supported of Anton LaVey, founder of the First Church of Satan in San Francisco. Did they reveal anything else about him? Also, have any of you heard anything about a Satanic cult known as the Process Church of the Final Judgement? We're discussing them over on Scientology right now, and this cult (which reportedly has disbanded) was one of the weirdest cults I've ever heard of. The Process had three gods: Jehovah (symbolizing justice and law), Lucifer (symbolizing energy and life), and Satan (symbolizing hatred, death, and gore). The weirdest thing of all is the Jesus Christ was supposedly the unifier of the three. He preached, "Love your enemies," and apparently the Process has taken this to heart. One minute, they'll read passages out of the Book of Daniel or Revelation; the next minute they'll celebrate a Black Mass. The reason we're discussing them on Scientology is that the Process broke away from Scientology in 1963. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 416 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/03/88 22:56:00 (Read 38 Times) From: DRACO ... To: LORD METALLICA Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 404 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) The High Priest of the Temple of Set is Dr. Michael Aquino. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 417 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/03/88 22:59:00 (Read 38 Times) From: DRACO ... To: LORD METALLICA Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 416 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) Dr. Michael Aquino is the High Priest of the Temple of Set. The Church of Satan was the first Satanic Church and the predecessor of the Temple of Set. It is now defunct on account of the entire infrastructure resigned in disgust when Anton LaVey, (The High Priest of the COS), announced all grades of initiation is available by CASH contributions only. (Gee, I thought Satanists were supposed to be materialistic. What's more materialistic than cash promotion?) --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 428 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/05/88 01:04:00 (Read 38 Times) From: LORD METALLICA To: DRACO ... Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 417 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) Hmmm...so it isn't in Chicago, after all. Thanks for the name. If it's the "Temple Of Set," do they still call their deity Satan, or do they call him Set (after the Egyptian god of evil and the night)? Just curious, as I haven't seen the show myself. (I was told he looked like a member of Kraftwerk, only his eyebrows were pointy.) --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 436 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/06/88 02:17:00 (Read 38 Times) From: DRACO ... To: LORD METALLICA Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 428 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) The don't really refer to Satan as a deity but as a concept. Satan embodies materialistic values. (Greed, pleasure etc...) They also enjoy the symbology and the drama of Satanic imagery. Personally, I think Aquino is an idiot. He gets in above his head then he keeps talkin'.... --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 446 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/08/88 20:19:00 (Read 40 Times) From: LADY QUICHE To: DRACO ... Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 436 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) Do satanic cults really kill people and animals? Are you part of a satanic cult? --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 447 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/08/88 20:26:00 (Read 41 Times) From: LADY QUICHE To: LORD METALLICA Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 446 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) Often satanic cults and memebers of them-even non-satanic people will pick references out of the Bible that they choose to beleive if they disagree with any one passage, then they will hold ceremoniesw-mostly people in satanic cults-and they will burn that portion because they think that it is something man made up. Then they will go ahead and add their portion that praises satan or something. I am not a satanic person, I am a Baptist. At church training sessions, sometimes we talk about satanic cults and their impact on society --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 451 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/09/88 00:32:00 (Read 41 Times) From: DRACO ... To: LADY QUICHE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 447 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) I am not part of a Satanic cult. I am Wiccan: A nature-based religion that respects all life. Some people, who claim to worship Satan, have been involved in ritualistic slayings. They are, by far, the minority. I have contacts with the Temple of Set, and though I disagree with their theological standpoint, they are very intelligent nice people. If you wish, I'll attempt to describe how I see their organization... --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 455 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/09/88 21:53:00 (Read 42 Times) From: LORD METALLICA To: DRACO ... Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 451 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) Are you aware of the Temple of Set being a Satanic cult? Might be a dumb question, but... I had also heard that one of the leaders of the Temple was a Lieutenant Colonel in the U.S. Army with expertise in psychological warfare. Is there any truth to this story? --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 477 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/13/88 19:51:41 (Read 32 Times) From: MARIE JOHNSON To: LORD METALLICA Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 455 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) You are right. Penthouse magazine did an article on Satanism a couple of years ago, and they said that the leader of the Temple of Set was a Lt. Colonel in the army with a background in psychological warfare. Constance cumby has also noted this fact in several of her lectures and tapes. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 481 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/14/88 00:08:14 (Read 30 Times) From: STEVEN GRANT To: DRACO ... Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 451 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) There is PLENTY of evidence that Satanists do murder animals (particularly german shepards) and people in their rites. However, it is a common error to confuse Wicca (a term I hate, but since that's what they've elected to call themselves), a feminine principle dominated religion, with Satanism, a very militant, male principle dominated religion. In fact, I have this theory that Satanism is actually Mithraism, which was widespread in Europe at the same time Christianity was flourishing and which was especially widespread among soldiers for its worship of military virtues. Connects perfectly to a lot of Satanic activity today. Christianity did its best to confuse Wicca and Satanism in the middle ages, and that confusion still exists with us. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 482 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/14/88 00:13:01 (Read 30 Times) From: STEVEN GRANT To: LORD METALLICA Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 455 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) Yes, Lt. Colonel Aquino, who's involved in a Presidio Day Care Center child molestation scandal in San Francisco, is head of the Knighthood Of Set, and was an expert in mind control with the Deltas (and with one Lt. Col. Oliver North!) in Vietnam... I've been following his case... --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 492 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/14/88 10:44:00 (Read 33 Times) From: MOON DOG To: STEVEN GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 482 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) Steven, I am *very* interested in your evidence regarding Satanists killing animals and humans. (*Especially the evidence of them killing humans.) By all means, don't stop there. Share with us the evidence of their murderous ways. Perhaps this dangerous group can be halted. MOON DOG --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 494 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/14/88 12:43:00 (Read 34 Times) From: LORD METALLICA To: STEVEN GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 492 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) You made an interesting observation that Satanic cults usually killed German shepherds. The Process, for some reason unknown to me, ALWAYS kept a lot of German shepherds at each of its churches/headquarters, and when many factions broke away from the Process, they started killing those German shepherds as a symoblic gesture to their former masters, if memory serves me right. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 496 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/14/88 14:22:00 (Read 33 Times) From: DRACO ... To: STEVEN GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 494 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) Why do you dislike the name Wicca? It is our religion. Mithraism is not necessarily Satanic. I know a few guys who like Mithras and they're not Satanic in any way shape or form. As far as Satanic groups sacrificing humans or animals, some do, most don't. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 497 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/14/88 14:23:00 (Read 34 Times) From: DRACO ... To: STEVEN GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 496 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) What evidence is there to support the charges againstt Aquino? (He, of course, denies everything.) --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 503 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/16/88 23:48:19 (Read 33 Times) From: STEVEN GRANT To: MOON DOG Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 492 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) You've read, I take it, THE ULTIMATE EVIL. In addition, up in San Francisco area there are several trials and investigations going on -- one was covered in the WEEKLY a couple weeks ago -- involving murders and tortures by Satanists. Stories keep popping up in the papers, usually buried somewhere in Section 1. I suggesting reading the Frisco papers and the San Jose Mercury. There was also a very interesting speech a few months back by the California Attn. General -- virtually unreported by media -- in which he stated that evidence indicated one in every 5 missing children in the state of California was EATEN, and he specifically named Satanism as a prime culprit... --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 504 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/16/88 23:52:47 (Read 33 Times) From: STEVEN GRANT To: DRACO ... Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 496 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) I just have always thought Wicca was a silly artificial name, and despite it's supposed "ancientness," it seems to me it was made up by whatsername who started the modern version of the witcheraft/nature worship. But that's just a personal feeling, with no weight intended to it. It strikes me in much the same way that Crowley's pretentiousness with the spelling of "magick" does. There are still practicing Mithraics? Tell me more... --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 505 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/16/88 23:55:32 (Read 33 Times) From: STEVEN GRANT To: DRACO ... Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 497 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) According to the newspaper articles I've read about Aquino, there is testimony of at least one child who not only recognized Aquino but was ale ... pardon my typing... able to accurately describe both Aquino's wife and the inside of his house, even though Aquino claims the child has never been there. Plus there's time elements that have been checked out. I doubt they have enough to convict Aquino of anything, the Army isn't giving any cooperation whatsoever (they are perfectly willing to try to drive out homosexuals who have done nothing and do their jobs well, but they refuse to even put on suspension a Satanist suspected of child abuse, torture and possibly murder), and very few child testimonies sway juries. But there are very strong indications that Aquino is very heavily involved in the activities he's accused of being in. Just to make you feel real comfortable about the situation, did you know that Aquino has the highest security clearance available in the Army? --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 508 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/15/88 08:24:00 (Read 33 Times) From: BRIGID DRAGONCHILD To: STEVEN GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 505 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) Just out of curiousity, what term do you prefer to Wicca? Dragonchild --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 537 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/18/88 10:15:00 (Read 31 Times) From: DRACO ... To: STEVEN GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 508 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) I have no idea who you mean by "whatsername". To my knowledge, the current revival of Wicca was revived by Gerald Gardner. I don't know much about the Mithraics other than they're a blast to party with. (Don't know them well enough yet.) --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 538 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/18/88 10:17:00 (Read 30 Times) From: DRACO ... To: STEVEN GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 537 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) I have nothing against Aquino because of his religion, but I do have something against him because of his profession.... --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 547 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/21/88 23:17:06 (Read 30 Times) From: STEVEN GRANT To: DRACO ... Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 537 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) I mean Margaret (I think) something something. Some woman who used all three names. I wish I could remember, as I used to know it quite well... --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 548 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/21/88 23:18:20 (Read 28 Times) From: STEVEN GRANT To: DRACO ... Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 538 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) I honestly don't believe that one is separate from the other... --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 565 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/25/88 00:26:44 (Read 35 Times) From: JOHN MARSHALL To: DRACO ... Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 497 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) Mr. Grant, The FBI dropped the investigation on Aquino, the Army dropped the investigation on Aquino, the SFPD has returned the confiscated Aquino property, when you say that there is evidence against the man you feel is strong what is it? It's obvious you have problems dealing with Aquino, is it because he has a PHD, has taught at the UNiv. of Santa Barbra? he's an Army officer, is an expert on psychological warfare? --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 566 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/22/88 10:26:00 (Read 34 Times) From: DRACO ... To: STEVEN GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 565 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) The only Margaret I think you may be thinking of is Margaret Murray O'Hair, the founder of the American Atheism movement. She had nothing to do with the Neo-Pagan movement. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 567 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/22/88 10:27:00 (Read 35 Times) From: DRACO ... To: STEVEN GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 566 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) I see your point. Maybe the U.S. Army is a Satanic front! ;) (Gee, guess I better get this one on Conspiracy.... --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 569 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/22/88 21:33:00 (Read 32 Times) From: LORD METALLICA To: DRACO ... Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 567 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) Her first name is Madalyn, not Margaret. ;) --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 570 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/22/88 21:34:00 (Read 33 Times) From: LORD METALLICA To: DRACO ... Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 569 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) Better tell Robert Anton Wilson about this...a novel about a Satanic Army would certainly make one hell of a book! I know it's a bad pun, but... --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 577 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/25/88 23:15:33 (Read 32 Times) From: STEVEN GRANT To: DRACO ... Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 567 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) It's funny you should mention it... --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 597 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/27/88 21:53:00 (Read 32 Times) From: DRACO ... To: JOHN MARSHALL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 577 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) Think you have the wrong guy.... --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 679 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 06/01/88 20:30:54 (Read 24 Times) From: MICHELLE HASS To: DRACO ... Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 451 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) All I consider so-called "Satanists" to be is just Christian Heretics. I am Pagan (shamanist) too. Satan has nothing to do with my belief system or paradigm. There IS negative energy/entities. But Satan is as much a Christian paradigm as Jesus Christ. MK-H --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 680 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 06/01/88 20:33:49 (Read 23 Times) From: MICHELLE HASS To: STEVEN GRANT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 481 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) THEY MURDER GERMAN SHEPHERDS???? Better tell my friend to lock up her dog... That makes me MAD! MK-H --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 777 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 06/21/88 20:00:05 (Read 22 Times) From: JOE TOTARO To: STEVEN GRANT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 481 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) How interesting! Satanists like the Mithriades! Very good analogy. True Satanist organizations use Nazi symbols: swastika and SS especially. Mythras was too much even for the Romans! GT --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 778 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 06/21/88 20:06:21 (Read 22 Times) From: JOE TOTARO To: STEVEN GRANT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 503 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) Cal. Attorney General and disappearing children -- Very interesting, Steven. Has anyone attempted to cross-reference children's disappearances [not custody fights] with Satanic holidays? Do the abductions spike up two weeks prior to key observances? Perhaps the same statistical profile for rapes of young girls? Random attacks? GT --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 955 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/01/88 08:16:00 (Read 12 Times) From: ELIAS LEVI To: JOE TOTARO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 778 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) I would agree! The Process is beyond question a dangerous group of people! Manson and Son of Sam have strong ties to the Process. This is not conjecture! It has been verified and documented absolutely! Not to mention the admission of same by the above named murderers! Manson has been visited by Process representatives in prision. --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: нн Pillars Of Hercules нн Led ZedZap нн (918)627-7796 (1:170/224) Msg#: 956 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/01/88 08:18:00 (Read 12 Times) From: ELIAS LEVI To: JOE TOTARO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 955 (RE: SATANISTS AND THE PROCESS) I beg to differ! Mithrias (correct spelling) was a god and organization whose membership included most of the Roman army! Where did you get your information? --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: нн Pillars Of Hercules нн Led ZedZap нн (918)627-7796 (1:170/224) Msg#: 456 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/10/88 00:49:00 (Read 39 Times) From: DRACO ... To: LORD METALLICA Subj: SATANISTS Yes. The Temple of Set is the only Federally recognized Satanic church. It's predecessor was the Church of Satan founded by Anton LaVey. After Anton said that all grades were attainable by cash contribution only, almost the entire infrastructure resigned and formed today's Temple of Set which is now headed by Dr. Michael Aquino. Michael is a LtCol woth U.S. Army intelligence. (Great qualifications for a Satanic High Priest, eh?) T.O.S. also has a BBS in Michigan. I'll dig up the number if you want it.... Sure wish their were some real Satanists here. Their "religion" really is quite fascinating. I disagree with 99.9% of it, but it's still somethin'......... --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 458 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/11/88 06:51:41 (Read 40 Times) From: SYSOP To: DRACO ... Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 456 (SATANISTS) I would like to get the number of the T.O.S. BBS. I think they have called here before and checked this section, but didn't post messages. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 459 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/10/88 18:50:00 (Read 36 Times) From: LORD METALLICA To: DRACO ... Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 458 (RE: SATANISTS) I don't think I'd ever call a Satanist board, but thanks anyway. One more question: Do they view their diety as the traditional Satan, or do they view him as the Egyptian god Set? --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 462 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/10/88 22:59:00 (Read 36 Times) From: DRACO ... To: LORD METALLICA Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 459 (RE: SATANISTS) As far as I can tell, both. (Please understand that as Pagans, we may worship multiple deites. The Satanists do the same thing.) They enjoy Satanic imagery of all kinds and Set is pretty obviously left-hand path... --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 517 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/17/88 20:31:56 (Read 31 Times) From: DAY LILY To: DRACO ... Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 456 (SATANISTS) Who would expect any Satanists to actually speak up when there are people out there muttering about eating babies and sacrificing dogs? Seems to me that these people have the same public relations problem as the Wiccans, only much worse. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 779 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 06/21/88 20:14:21 (Read 18 Times) From: JOE TOTARO To: DRACO ... Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 456 (SATANISTS) Are you so sure there are no Satanists here, Draco? Your notice about Aquino being in Army Intelligence (this was the first example of the charming term "oxymoron" that I ever heard: "Army Intelligence") is quite fascinating. Are you aware that the perpetrators of the Son of SAM murders in New York were known to the intelligence community before any of the investigations hit pay-dirt? Perhaps your Colonel Aquino knows more than he lets on. GT --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 967 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 06/30/88 22:11:00 (Read 14 Times) From: DRACO ... To: JOE TOTARO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 779 (RE: SATANISTS) I posted that message some 3 months ago, so I know not what you are talking about. At that time, there were no Satanists present. Welcome.... --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 969 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/04/88 19:58:41 (Read 11 Times) From: JOE TOTARO To: DRACO ... Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 967 (RE: SATANISTS) Hello Draco. I'm not a Satanist -- was just wondering if there were any here. Thank you for the welcome, GT --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 523 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/16/88 22:49:00 (Read 26 Times) From: MOON DOG To: STEVEN GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: HUMANS? BTW, Steven, I'm still waiting for some evidence from you, that Satanists are killing humans. If they are, and you have evidence of it, something MUST be done to stop them. MOON DOG --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 528 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/18/88 20:45:08 (Read 26 Times) From: STEVEN GRANT To: MOON DOG Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 523 (HUMANS?) It depends what you call evidence, Dog. I haven't personally witnessed any Satanic murders, and the police say they've never had any proof that Satanists kill people. All I have to go on is newspaper reports of trials involving Satanists. As I said, the most recent article I read along those lines was in the LA WEEKLY of two weeks ago, which talked about a San Francisco case that's currently underway. A man says he was recruited by Satanists and as his initiation, he had to kidnap, torture and kill another man. He tried to avoid it, and eventually managed to bring the cops in. A few nights ago on Channel 13 news, they interviewed a woman who claims she was tortured and raped by a Satanic cult while a child, that her parents were in on it, that she witnessed other children being dismembered WHILE ALIVE and subsequently killed. She said it has taken her many years of therapy to go public with this, that everyone involved was tortured and terrified of death at the hands of the cult should they ever say what they saw or experienced, which is why she has kept her mouth shut up until now. Cops interviewed dismissed the whole things. There are plenty of these reports around, little noted and not long remembered. But all of them are surprisingly consistent. So I dunno... I'm just keeping track of these things as best I can... you'll have to make up your own mind about what's real and what's not... --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 542 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/20/88 00:07:00 (Read 23 Times) From: MOON DOG To: STEVEN GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 528 (RE: HUMANS?) Automatically, I see a couple of problems, here. One: Much of what people are referring to, as far as claims of "Satanists" doing this or that come from newspapers. Despite *any* lofty claims, newspapers are in business to sell newspapers, not to disseminate the truth. So, Joe Bloe, who lives next door claims that "a buncha these here Satanists came to me to rent this place and...". Of course, the newspaper quotes him, and starts using the term Satanist all thru' it's article, because everyone knows that articles about Satanism sell papers. (I, by the way, am guilty of having written for two legitimate newspapers, and several "underground" newspapers in my illustrious career.) TWO: There is no (that I know of) copyright on the term Satanist, and anyone can bandy it about at will. (Of course, even if it DID have a copyright on it, people could still misuse it.) Because I call myself a Satanist (just an example, I *AM NOT* really a Satanist), does that automatically make me one? Likewise, because I call myself a Christian (again, just an example, I *AM NOT* really a Christian), does that automatically make me one? So...some atrocious acts *MAY* have been committed, and these alleged acts *MAY* have been committed by someone who *calls* themselves Satanists. Or....some atrocious acts *MAY* have been committed, and SOMEONE ELSE may have called the alleged perpetrators Satanists. Any time the police find evidence of burned candles, and/or a pentagram, they label the area "the scene of Satanist activity". I've seen it happen time and time again. So....WHAT DO WE REALLY HAVE HERE??? Do we have a crime committed by Satanists? Do we have a crime committed by people who just call themselves Satanists? Do we have a crime committed by people that others have labeled Satanists? Or could we have even ANOTHER possibility???? Could we have a crime committed by a person or persons who WANT others to think that they are Satanists????? Remember...just because I call myself a Satanist does not make it the truth. Just because I call YOU a Satanist does not make it the truth. And just because someone finds something that they LABEL as being Satanist, does not make the people that were there Satanists. A pentagram does not a Satanist make....any more than a cross makes a Christian. (The KKK use crosses in their rituals, but I certainly would not call THEM Christians.) So what evidence do you really have? MOON DOG --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 551 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/21/88 23:26:45 (Read 26 Times) From: STEVEN GRANT To: MOON DOG Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 542 (RE: HUMANS?) If newspapers were selling Satanism, I'd agree with your point. But most newspapers bury such stories way back in the first section. If they were out for sensationalism, they'd put them on the front page. And yes, there IS a lot of sloppy journalism in this country, and there is a lot of putting the wrong name on things. But most journalists ARE relatively honest, and I don't believe they go around applying the name "satanic" to things just because they're there. That sort of thing is done by the moral majority, but it's the sort of thing that loses reporters their jobs. What evidence do I have? If you reject printed accounts and testimony as overblown, faked or irrelevant, none. I don't personally know any Satanists anymore, I haven't seen any of the Satanic snuff films (with ceremonies) that I hear are available on the black market (one particular one made by Satanists in Indianapolis that I've heard of), and I haven't witnessed any Satanic masses. So, no proof. You're welcome to try to track down a Satanic cult and watch them slaughter someone if you like... But they probably wouldn't do that in front of you, anyway. I'll transcribe the article I've got on the S.F. Aquino case if you want... --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 556 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/21/88 21:12:00 (Read 25 Times) From: LORD METALLICA To: MOON DOG Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 551 (RE: HUMANS?) Interesting that you should mention the pentagram...before Satanists started using it, the pentagram was actually a Christian symbol, displayed with one point upwards instead of two. The pentagram, to the early Christians, was composed of three interlocking triangles, each one representing a person of the Holy Trinity. Pentagrams can still be found in some of the older Christian churches in Europe. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 559 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/23/88 23:37:46 (Read 24 Times) From: STEVEN GRANT To: LORD METALLICA Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 556 (RE: HUMANS?) The pentagram pointing up is still a Christian symbol, if a bit arcane. The pentagram pointing down is a Satanic symbol... --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 564 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/25/88 00:15:02 (Read 25 Times) From: JOHN MARSHALL To: MOON DOG Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 542 (RE: HUMANS?) Excellent points. I would disagree with the gentleman who says that Satanism does not make front page news. I have a file full of 'em. To date no member of a legally recognized Satanic Organization has been found guilty of the atrocities which are oftesaid to be the handiwork of Satanists. Actual Satanism is completely misunderstood by the public sector as can be seen by the materials regading Satanism which are on this system. The Temple of Set -america's only fully recognid legal non-profit Satanic Church has a BBS in Mich. called the National Satanic BBS. It is excellent. The number is 517-694-1273. Glad to see someone use the devil's tool of logic and see a bit clearly about the whole matter. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 576 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/25/88 23:13:28 (Read 26 Times) From: STEVEN GRANT To: JOHN MARSHALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 564 (RE: HUMANS?) Yes, well, we'll see what happens as the Michael Aquino/Presidio case continues... --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 580 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/24/88 23:05:00 (Read 25 Times) From: MOON DOG To: LORD METALLICA Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 576 (RE: HUMANS?) Thanks, Metallica, for that information. I was not aware of that *at all*. The earliest use of the pentagram that I have is pre-Xtian. The Seal of Solomon, I believe, features the five pointed star. Incidentally, as a Wiccan, I wear the pentagram. (With one point upright.) MOON DOG --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 582 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/26/88 14:06:54 (Read 25 Times) From: JOHN MARSHALL To: STEVEN GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 576 (RE: HUMANS?) Gee, haven't you heard the latest? The Army called off its investigation months ago, as did the FBI and the Army investigative services. The little girl you mentioned who allegedly pinned Dr.Aquino is the daughter of an Army Chaplain, this same child did the same thing to another person the year before-the case was thrown out of court then- methinks dad may be trying to influence the 3 year old? Maybe Army Chaplain doesn't like Satanic High Priest's in the Army? At any rate the Chaplain now faces possible court-martial charges for bring up a false charge against a fellow officer. Yes, we'll wait and see, it's only been going on nine months and no charges have been made. As far as the Presidio case goes all charges were dropped against the Hambreight(?) fellow. Aquino has been completely exonerated by all official investigative service involved in that affair -which couldn't place the man there anyways- he was in Wahington D.C. -across the country- going to school for the Army. Take care.... --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 586 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/26/88 01:37:00 (Read 23 Times) From: LORD METALLICA To: MOON DOG Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 582 (RE: HUMANS?) I believe you're right. It just sort of took me by suprise when I looked through a book of Christian symbols and found the pentagram sitting right in the middle of the page!! But I think the design itself had older origins than with either the Christians or the Satanists, as you pointed out. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 587 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/26/88 01:41:00 (Read 23 Times) From: LORD METALLICA To: JOHN MARSHALL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 586 (RE: HUMANS?) America's ONLY recognized Satanic establishment? Whatever happened to LaVey's church? (By any chance, are you a Satanist?) --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 526 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/18/88 20:40:02 (Read 24 Times) From: STEVEN GRANT To: BRIGID DRAGONCHILD Subj: NAMES OF THE GODDESS I don't know. What are my choices? I didn't say I had a BETTER name than Wicca, I just thought I said Wicca sounded kind of silly... Earth worship, I guess. Gaia. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 557 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/21/88 21:21:00 (Read 27 Times) From: BRIGID DRAGONCHILD To: STEVEN GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 526 (RE: NAMES OF THE GODDESS) How does Earthcraft strike you? It's my personal choice... Dragonchild --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 560 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/23/88 23:38:46 (Read 26 Times) From: STEVEN GRANT To: BRIGID DRAGONCHILD Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 557 (RE: NAMES OF THE GODDESS) Yeah, Earthcraft is nice. I like it. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 681 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 06/01/88 20:39:05 (Read 22 Times) From: MICHELLE HASS To: STEVEN GRANT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 526 (NAMES OF THE GODDESS) I prefer to think of Wicca (which is a legitimate Saxon word for Witch, or Wise Woman, and has a little less bad rep than Witch) as European Shamanism. It is amazing how much the shamanism of Siberia and the Americas has in common with Wicca. MK-H --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 543 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/20/88 00:42:00 (Read 23 Times) From: DAVID BOWMAN To: STEVEN GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: PAN Very true, but my point was that they chose to use Pan as the image of thier adversary. Pan and Dionysus are two separate enitities, one is not the servant of the other despite what some may have thought. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 552 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/21/88 23:35:07 (Read 23 Times) From: STEVEN GRANT To: DAVID BOWMAN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 543 (PAN) Historically, Pan worship predates that of Dionysus and the other Olympian gods by some time, true. But the Christians dealt with Pan long after Dionysus and Pan had become commonly identified with each other in the Hellenized East, mostly due to them both being associated with goats and fertility. And they continued to identify Pan with Dionysus and thought of Dionysus as one of the worst enemies of the Christian cult, because of characteristics Dionysus had in common with Christ... --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 595 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/27/88 19:33:00 (Read 25 Times) From: DAVID BOWMAN To: STEVEN GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 552 (RE: PAN) Would you give me some references concerning all this: Dionsysus, Pan, and their relations with early Christianity. I would greatly appreciate the info. Thanks. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 601 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/30/88 21:30:47 (Read 29 Times) From: STEVEN GRANT To: DAVID BOWMAN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 595 (RE: PAN) Okay. Give me a few days to look up the titles. Two good books about Dionysus -- don't recall if they have any specific info on this topic or not -- are DIONYSUS:MYTH AND CULT, by Walter F. Otto, and SHIVA AND DIONYSUS, by Alain Danielou. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 606 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/31/88 15:27:00 (Read 26 Times) From: DAVID BOWMAN To: STEVEN GRANT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 601 (RE: PAN) Thanks, and I appreciate you taking the time to hunt up the other references. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 561 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/24/88 22:48:08 (Read 25 Times) From: JASON MOORE To: ALL Subj: SATANIC CHURCH & STATE APn 03/21 1513 Prison-Satanism ATMORE, Ala. (AP) -- A federal magistrate denied a prisoner's request for materials to worship Satan, ruling that Satanism is not a religion and the knitting needles he wanted for bloodletting would pose a security risk. Holman Prison inmate Charles McCorkle had filed a lawsuit against state officials, claiming he was prevented from practicing Satanism at the maximum-security prison. Besides asking for the Satanic bible and other books on the occult, McCorkle asked for knitting needles to draw blood for his rituals. U.S. Magistrate William Cassady ruled earlier this month that "Satanism is an unreligion," instead of a religion. "It is a philosophy of life that rejects all religions and promotes the idea that man should not be subservient to any natural or supernatural being," Cassady ruled. If McCorkle's requests were granted, the magistrate ruled, he would "create a severe security risk to prison officials and other inmates." McCorkle's suit earlier was dismissed as frivolous, but the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta ordered a hearing on the claim, which prompted Cassady's review. In his 11-page recommendation, the magistrate said McCorkle has a history of psychiatric disorders, has attempted suicide by slashing his wrists and has admitted to a previous addiction to numerous drugs, including heroin. Assistant Attorney General David Christy, who defended the prison system, applauded Cassady's decision. "This is the first time I've seen where a judge held unequivocably (Satanism) is not a religion," Christy said. McCorkle is serving a 40-year sentence on three separate burglary convictions. He claimed if he had the proper reading materials and articles needed for his rituals, he could practice magic and gain mental and physical prowess over others, including prison officials, and could "curse others even to the point of death." --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 563 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/24/88 23:54:52 (Read 25 Times) From: JASON MOORE To: STEVEN GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: CHICAGO AREA MURDERS 3-23-88 Supreme Court upholds three death sentences By CAROL KNOWLES SPRINGFIELD, Ill. (UPI) _ The Supreme Court upheld the murder convictions and death sentences of three men Wednesday, including Edward Spreitzer, an alleged member of a devil worshiping cult believed responsible for as many as 18 deaths in Cook and Du Page counties in 1981 and 1982. Justices upheld Spreitzer's conviction for the mutilation death of Linda Sutton, a 26-year-old Chicago prostitute, who was found dead in a field in Villa Park in 1981, her breasts amputated and her hands cuffed behind her back. They set a Sept. 13 execution for the 27-year-old Chicago man, who is on Death Row at the Pontiac Correctional Center, but that date likey will be postponed pending further appeals. During discussions with police, Spreitzer, who has an IQ of 76 and was described as "borderline defective" in intellectual ability, confessed to his involvement in as many as nine murders, many of which also involved breast amputation and "having sex" with the women victims' wounds. The Sutton case was Spreitzer's fifth murder conviction. He also is serving four life sentences for the murders of four other individuals. Spreitzer had challenged his conviction and sentence in the Sutton murder on several grounds, including conflict of interest because a lawyer from the state's attorney's office became a public defender during his case and because prosecutors tried to prejudice the jury by bringing up the question of whether Spreitzer and the others involved participated in devil worship with the breasts. The Supreme Court rejected all of Spreitzer's arguments, saying any errors in the trial were not great enough to change the outcome. But it reduced to 30 years his original 60-year-sentence for aggravated kidnapping. Robin Gecht, 34, of Carpentersville, who police say was the ringleader of the cult, is serving an extended sentence at the Menard Correctional Center for attempted murder, rape, aggravated kidnapping and deviate sexual assault. Andrew Kokoralelis, 24, is serving a life sentence for murder at Menard, while his brother, Thomas, 27, is serving a 70-year-term at Pontiac on murder charges, but his conviction was overturned. Both men, also believed by police to be members of the alleged cult, have their cases on appeal. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 588 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/26/88 02:13:00 (Read 24 Times) From: LORD METALLICA To: JASON MOORE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 563 (RE: CHICAGO AREA MURDERS) I wonder if perhaps these Satanists were connected with the Process or one of its offshoots? There was this California art dealer named Andrew Crispo who was a member of a Satanic cult believed to have descended from the Process (and who was also a homosexual) who helped stab to death a Norweigian homosexual named Eigil Dag Vessil (or something like that) and sexually penetrated the wounds, as you said was done with the mutilated women in Chicago. (The Process once had a few chapters in operation there, from what I understand.) --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 591 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/27/88 19:48:22 (Read 25 Times) From: STEVEN GRANT To: LORD METALLICA Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 588 (RE: CHICAGO AREA MURDERS) The Process indeed had very active chapters in Chicago and in Madison, WI in the early to mid seventies. I used to run into the black caped geeks all the time... --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 622 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 04/13/88 15:27:00 (Read 23 Times) From: MARIBETH DREHER To: STEVEN GRANT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 591 (RE: CHICAGO AREA MURDERS) The Process was really big in New Orleans, too. A good friend in Canada says they were really bit in Toronto. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 573 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/25/88 18:40:08 (Read 25 Times) From: JASON MOORE To: JOHN MARSHALL (Rcvd) Subj: TEMPLE OF SET The trouble with the Temple of set is what the lady said on the Oprah Winfrey Show: It's up-side-down. Black is white, good is evil, evil is good, truth is lies, peace is war--or in the case of the Army Colonel, maybe ware is peace. They hang the Christian symbol of the five pointed star upside-down and make it their symbol. They use the Crucifix upside down. You say that logic is the tool of the devil, but in the inverse nature of this reasoning, then did you really mean a lack of logic? When you say you're telling the truth, then does that mean you're telling a lie? Are these paradoxes what this revolting organization is all about? You talk about the talents of Dr. Aquino. I found it interesting that it was hard for him to defend himself from Ophra. His "Psychological Warfare" talents don't make me shudder. I appall his admiration of the Third Reich because of its use of occultism. Set has an image problem. If you are all just a great bunch of guys, then why do you call yourself "Satanists". I understand that in a world of conventional communication, that Satanism connotes "evil." Come on, what is this really all about? --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 581 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/26/88 13:50:26 (Read 24 Times) From: JOHN MARSHALL To: JASON MOORE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 573 (TEMPLE OF SET) Mr. moore, It is obvious you are entirely ignorant about the Temple of Set's philosophy. I would hardly think that Dr. Aquino didn't defend himself well against Oprah. The thing is he wasn't there to defend anything. He was there to provide information regarding the Temple and did so very well. It wasn't confrontational -except by those whose intent it was to do so- it cetainly wasn't the Dr. Aquino's. Your simple minded concept of the Temple as being some kind of inverse christianity is ridiculous. Mentioning the Pentagram etc.. showed your ignorance on the subject. The reason that there is interest in the Pentagram has to do with its mathematical structure -i.e. it being built upon the "golden mean" or "golden ratio" of the ancient egyptians -far outdating christianity by thousands of years. The essential dichotomy of the Temple of Set lies upon inclusion into the natural order of the universe or separation from it. Inclusion implies the dissolution of the individual personality into the fabric of the universe, strengthening the separation is probably the only method to avoid that loss of self and ego. There is nothing evil -in the doing bad to other's context- involved in this. It is personal, individual and unique to each. as far as image problem goes, it comes with the territory. What do you expect when you have to fight centuries of propaganda, begun during the inquisitions, and taken from the confessions of tortured inquisition victims. The christians claimed 13 million lives during that period, not to mention decimation of the Inca race and few other goodies. So it's an uphill battle-fighting narrow views, which are based upon ignorance- but its one that's going well. BBS'S such as this and the National Satanic BBS in Mich and Connecticut allow ACTUAL views on Satanism to be cast out. You see Mr. Moore, there is a Satanic line of thought which can be traced back to ancient egypt, it is a line of thought which has nothing to do with the popular conception of Satan as espoused by the Judaeo-Christian mainstream. Take care jm --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 596 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 03/27/88 20:24:00 (Read 26 Times) From: LORD METALLICA To: JOHN MARSHALL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 581 (RE: TEMPLE OF SET) You're forgetting something. You would have to search far and wide to find ANY Christians nowadays who believe that the atrocities the Spanish Inquisition performed in the 1500's were sanctioned by God. It's just that they were supported by the Holy Mother Church in Rome, which was still the only church in the whole of southern Europe. No one dared to speak out against the Inquisition because they knew that if they did, they would face the same fate as the Inquisition's other victims. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 985-9054 Dallas, Tx (124/214) Msg#: 613 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 04/08/88 19:46:11 (Read 21 Times) From: MARIE JOHNSON To: LORD METALLICA Subj: PENTAGRAMS There is a Gregorian chapel in Shawnee Okla. that has a pentagram and a pyramid with the all seeing eye in the stained glass windows --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (213)876-9343 (102/744) Msg#: 657 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 05/22/88 11:04:33 (Read 25 Times) From: JASON MOORE To: ALL Subj: SATANIC CULT? ATLANTA 4 05-21-88 04:38 ped Police grow more wary of devil-worshipers ATLANTA (UPI) _ Some metro Atlanta police officers are paying closer attention to reports of devil-worship, believing the practice may be increasingly related to crimes in the area. The most notable crime linked to the occult in the area occurred in Douglas County in January, when a 15-year-old runaway girl was murdered in what investigators said was a Satanic ritual. One defendant in that slaying, Terry Belcher, was convicted of murder last week and sentenced to life in prison. Belcher admitted he had been involved in the killing but denied any cult involvement, and the case shed no light on widespread allegations that devil-worship was involved in the girl's death. But several law enforcement officers say occult connections in crimes seldom are mentioned in court, since prosecutors are wary of trying to prove a motive that many judges or jurors find hard to believe. "You have a dead body, malice, a murder," he said. "Why complicate it with all these allegations about rituals?" But police nevertheless are increasingly interested in learning about Satanism as an aspect of crime, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported in Sunday's editions. Dabblers in Satanism are likely to leave evidence such as animal remains or symbols such as the number 666 or a pentagram at crime scenes, investigators say. "Worshiping the devil is not a crime, but there are sometimes crimes related to the rituals," said Douglas County District Attorney Frank Winn. "When you find literally dozens of officers communicating, and the facts being very similar in cases, it makes you sit up and take notice that there must be some truth to it," said Cobb County Police Sgt. Joe Renner, who has attended several seminars about Satanism in the past year. Cobb Police Capt. Sharon Moody said she knows of no convictions in which Satanism was a factor in the cases. "But I know some of these officers and they don't overreact," she said. "I don't think you can chalk this up to us looking for something that isn't there. I do think it's out there." Renner said more parents are calling him to discuss their children's possible involvement in the occult, and officers say much of the alleged Satanism involves teenagers. Cynthia Kisser, executive director of the Cult Awareness Network, a non-profit group in Chicago that distributes information about cult activity, said she knows of only one case involving Satanism in which the practice was proven in court. But she noted an apparent increase in public interest in the occult. Kisser estimates that 95 percent of teenagers who dabble in Satanism are interested only in trappings such as heavy metal rock music, clothing or jewelry and do not become seriously involved. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 658 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 05/22/88 11:06:29 (Read 23 Times) From: JASON MOORE To: ALL Subj: SATANIC CULT? AKRON, COLORADO APn 05/21 2301 Satanic Cult AKRON, Colo. (AP) -- An 11-month investigation into reports of sexual abuse at a day-care home has triggered fears that a satanic cult may have preyed on children, a Denver newspaper reported. No criminal charges have been filed, and the day-care home operator denies the charges. The Denver Post said in a story in its Sunday editions that seven children who attended the home have recently received therapy. Five continue with therapists, paid for through the state's victim compensation fund. Authorities believe at least two other children could be victims, the Post reported, but their parents have refused to cooperate with investigators. "These are by far the most severely disturbed children I have ever seen," an unnamed child-care expert told the newspaper. "The emotional impacts are astounding. Entire families are thrown into chaos over this." One youngster described vivid details involving a ceremonial decapitation of a young boy named Bobby. Washington County Undersheriff Steve Vosburg says he regards that report "very seriously," although no body has been found and no local children have been reported missing. Other children told of rape and sodomy inflicted by masked and hooded adults during ceremonial torture sessions. One 4-year-old identified a pentagram -- a common satanic symbol -- and associated it with the day-care home, the Post said. During therapy or as told to parents, the Post said, the children have described adults who frightened them with guns, knives, swords, power saws and cattle prods. The day-care home was operated by Hazel Riggs, 67, who surrendered her license Sept. 15 -- 10 weeks after she was questioned by Vosburg and a social worker. "I completely deny all these charges ... and hope you look into this case thoroughly because this is not true," she wrote in a Sept. 15 response to a letter from Elizabeth Kester, the state's licensing administrator. "I do not wish to do any more day-care." Vosburg says the case remains open. A search of the day-care home on May 5 turned up no evidence, Vosburg said. His investigation is further harmed, he said, by parents who refuse to allow their children to be interviewed. District Attorney Doyle T. Johns, who is responsible for filing charges, refused to comment, saying he does not discuss active investigations. Although he is skeptical of any links to devil worship, Vosburg adds, "I'd like to know where (the children) are getting these stories if there's nothing to them." Therapists, parents and social workers are less willing than Vosburg to dismiss a satanic link. "We know it is going on," an unnamed county official told the Post. "We just can't prove it." Disturbances among the children, who range from preschool age to about 12, include depression and suicidal feelings, nightmares, regressive development, outbursts against other children, spells of fear and terror, and general distrust, the newspaper said. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 659 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 05/22/88 11:09:34 (Read 21 Times) From: JASON MOORE To: ALL Subj: SATANIC CULT? OVERTON, TEXAS 1 05-16-88 09:54 pcd OVERTON, Texas (UPI) _ An East Texas sheriff said Monday he believes Satan worshippers broke into a grave at an East Texas cemetery last Friday, scattered bones and took some of the remains for use in a worship service. Smith County Sheriff J.B. Smith said the remains were found Sunday scattered around a cemetery near Overton, about 20 miles east of Tyler. Smith said he believes the grave was broken into on Friday the 13th, which he said is a holy day for Satan worshippers. "I think it was done on Friday the 13th. That's one of their holidays," Smith said. "All we have is circumstantial evidence, but that's part of their ritual, having a human bone in part of their ceremonies." No satanic symbols were found in the area, and only one grave was disturbed, Smith said. The graverobbers apparently took a bone from the right forearm of the corpse and scattered other bones around the gravesite, he added. County Marshal Larry Farquer of Overton said he doubts the damage was the work of a devil-worship cult because no satanic symbols were found in the area. Jud Morrison, a policeman from nearby Whitehouse who attended a recent seminar on the practices of Satan worshippers, said true cultists normally take a leg bone from a corpse. But he said some graverobbers are teens "who make up their own rules as they go along." --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 660 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 05/22/88 11:11:02 (Read 22 Times) From: JASON MOORE To: ALL Subj: ALTOONA, PA GRAVE ROBBERS 2 05-18-88 07:21 ped Police: Suspects opened graves to get coffin handles ALTOONA, Pa. (UPI) _ Two unemployed men Wednesday confessed to digging up and plundering two graves to get antique metal coffin handles to sell for scrap, police said. The two unidentified men confessed to the March grave robberies during interviews with authorities, said Police Chief Peter Starr. "I think I could find an easier way to make a living myself," Starr said. "The ground at these gravesites contained a lot of shale. It would have been a difficult undertaking. I just couldn't see doing that." The gravesites were located in Black's Cemetery, a burial ground named after a local family and dating back to the early 1900s. Police previously believed the grave openings were the work of satanic cult members. But the suspects said they did not know anything about several mysterious symbols left on the graves, and said the marks had been there for some time, the chief said. Police expected to file a criminal complaint next week charging the two suspects with grave tampering and criminal mischief. The suspects told police they did not see any human remains, just relics of the caskets, from which they allegedly removed the metal handles, the chief said. "We haven't had a professional reopen the graves yet," Starr said. "All I'm going by in this statement is what the individuals told us. They didn't see the bodies, any human remains. All they saw was the remains of the caskets. And they removed the handles." --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 672 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 05/30/88 11:55:17 (Read 19 Times) From: JASON MOORE To: ALL Subj: SATANIC SLAYING? JOPLIN, MO CAMDENTON, Mo. (UPI) _ An 18-year-old rural Joplin man Wednesdaywas sentenced to life in prison for his role in the beating death of ahigh school classmate, who authorities say was sacrificed in some typeof satan worship. James Hardy, who was an honor student and senior class president at the time of his arrest, was sentenced to life in prison without possibility of parole by Camden County Circuit Judge James Franklin. The case was moved from Jasper County on a change of venue. Hardy pleaded guilty April 29 to first-degree murder in the slaying of Steven Newberry, 19, also of rural Joplin. Newberry's body was found Dec. 7, along with the beaten body of a cat, in an abandoned well near the Kansas border in southwest Missouri. Authorities said the youth had been struck repeatedly with baseball bats the night before his body was discovered. Hardy and two other students charged in the slaying attended Carl Junction High School with Newberry. Prosecutors said the three were involved in satanism, violent rock music and drugs. Hardy was the leader in the plan to kill Newberry in a satanic sacrifice, testimony has indicated. Earlier this month, Ronald Clements, 17, of Carl Junction, was convicted of first-degree murder in Jasper County Circuit Court after a three-day trial in Carthage. He also was sentenced to life in prison without possibility of parole, though prosecutors sought the death penalty _ the only other sentence under a first-degree murder conviction. Theron Roland, 17, also of Carl Junction, is scheduled to be tried on a charge of first-degree murder June 14 in Sedalia. The prosecutor said he will seek the death penalty if the youth is convicted. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 675 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 05/30/88 12:41:56 (Read 21 Times) From: JASON MOORE To: ALL Subj: ITALY SATANIC CULT? APn 05/28 1240 Italy-Satanic Cult COSENZA, Italy (AP) -- Police arrested 35 people at an isolated farmhouse and discovered indications of satanic ritual, along with piles of money, an arms cache and a corpse bearing signs of Mafia-style execution, newspapers said Saturday. "We still don't know how much the Mafia and black magic were involved in this affair," investigating magistrate Luigi Belvedere was quoted as saying in the Paese Sera newspaper. The raid was ordered after a man showed up Wednesday night at a hospital in this southern city. He was suffering from gunshot wounds and said he had been involved in a bizarre religious ritual. Following the tip, police went to the farmhouse and found 35 young people holding hands and murmuring "Hail Mary" around a table with a picture of the Virgin Mary and one of Antonio Naccarato. On the floor lay a dismembered cat. Naccarato, who died in 1983, was a southern Italian who sought work in the northern city of Turin and was regarded by some as a saint and healer, newspapers reported. The worshipers reportedly took no notice of the police and would only say: "I am an apostle of Christ." The police knocked down a metal door and found the corpse of a 27-year-old man who had been shot to death a few days earlier. Police said the victim was bound in a way that the 'Ndrangheta -- the Calabrian version of the Mafia -- reserves for traitors. The body was surrounded by 18 rifles, guns, knives, thousands of bullets and nearly $800,000 in cash and checks. Lidia Naccarato, 36, the niece of Antonio Naccarato, was one of those arrested. Police said she was found in a trance-like state in a room adjacent to the ceremony and denied knowing anything about the dead body. Last page ! --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 775 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 06/21/88 19:33:05 (Read 19 Times) From: JOE TOTARO To: JASON MOORE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 675 (ITALY SATANIC CULT?) Italian Satanists -- does this surprise you? You must remember that Satanists are the Mafia's dream in real life? Who else would take drugs so heavily? Kill with such abandon? And then kill the killers, their own co-religionists, to end the trail? These are very deep waters. For a good book on Satanist and the drug world, you should read The Ultimate Evil. Many devil-worshiper cults allow themselves to be used for drug matters. They want nothing more than drugs, sex, power (of life and death). They are being used by richer, crueler men. GT --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 715 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 06/11/88 09:06:00 (Read 10 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: MATTHEW DUNHAM Subj: RE: MORMONISM Ok. when I decided to become a Witch, it was a conscious decision on my part, but I did not do so out of rebellion against Christianity or God or anything connected with rebellion. It was a metter of discovering a spiritual path that fulfilled my needs. It was a path on which I felt I could be of use to my fellow man and to the Goddess. I have no quarrel with Christ, only with some who would persecute others in the NAME of Christ. No, I'm afraid I haven't had much time to do the holidays thing. I've been really tied up with my duties as Okla. chapter head of the Witches League for Public Awareness and trying to organize one pagan festival for Sept. and prepare to teach at another one in Aug. I'll get to it as soon as I can. Blessed Be. Rowan Oh, BTW, what software do you want me to use. I've got PC Write, WordPerfect and Word Star. Which would you prefer? BB Rowan --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: Rock Island (on) Line - Newalla, Ok.- (405)391-9488 (1:147/3) Reply has been deleted Msg#: 764 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 06/20/88 20:47:02 (Read 18 Times) From: JASON MOORE To: ALL Subj: SATANIC MURDER? DOUGLASVILLE, GA. APn 06/10 2355 Human Sacrifice DOUGLASVILLE, Ga. (AP) -- A 16-year-old boy accused of taking part in a satanic human sacrifice of a 15-year-old girl, was convicted of murder Friday and sentenced to life in prison. The jury deliberated less than three hours before convicting Robert McIntyre. The life sentence, imposed by Superior Court Judge Robert L. James, was mandatory because the state did not seek the death penalty. Krontz called prosecution star witness Terry Belcher a "demented child" and a liar. Belcher, 15, was convicted of murder last month in the Jan. 17 slaying of Theresa Simmons. Belcher, who has been sentenced to life in prison, McIntyre and Malisa Earnest, 17, were charged in the slaying, accused of strangling her and then performing a crude Satanic ritual over her body. Miss Earnest is to be tried later this month. McIntyre's lawyer, Kenneth Krontz, rested his case without calling a witness and unsuccessfully sought a mistrial. Krontz complained the prosecution used allegations of devil worship to cloud the case and improperly introduced evidence such as rock music records with alleged references to Satan. "They have taken a murder trial and turned it into a virtual witch hunt," Krontz said. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 792 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 06/22/88 11:31:04 (Read 16 Times) From: JASON MOORE To: ALL Subj: SAN FRANCISCO ARMY DAYCARE CASE 8 06-20-88 11:29 ppd SAN FRANCISCO (UPI) _ The federal investigation into alleged sexual abuse of children at the Presidio's day-care center has been closed for lack of evidence, U.S. Attorney Jospeh P. Russoniello said Monday. His announcement ended a 19-month federal probe into allegations that at least 60 children were sexually abused. There were also reports of bizarre satanic rituals. Russoniello told the San Francisco Chronicle that the federal legal system "failed" the parents and children by making it difficult or impossible for young children to take the witness stand. Meanwhile, a spokesman for the San Francisco District Attorney's Office said a related investigation into possible abuse of Presidio children at sites off the base "is nearing the end" and that a decision on whether to file charges will be made within a week. The case surfaced in November 1986 when a 3-year-old boy who attended the day-care center told his parents that one of the teachers had performed sexual acts on him. Gary Hambright, the boy's teacher, was removed from his post and was indicted the next month. However, attempts to prosecute him collapsed and the charges were dismissed in March 1987. The investigation continued, encompassing many children, and Hambright was indicted again on 12 counts of molesting 10 children in September 1987, but that case was dismissed in February for lack of evidence. Experts consulted by attorneys said the victims might not be able to discuss what actually happned to them for 10 or 11 years. By then, Rusasoniello said, the statute of limitations for the alleged crimes would have expired. Presidio families of the alleged young victims have filed $53 million in claims against the Army on behalf of themselves and their children. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 793 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 06/22/88 11:32:29 (Read 16 Times) From: JASON MOORE To: ALL Subj: MUSCATINE IOWA BABY DEATH 5 06-16-88 11:15 pcd Defendant's mother says woman took baby MUSCATINE, Iowa (UPI) _ The mother of a man charged with first-degree kidnapping in the beating and dismemberment death of a 7-month-old baby says her son told her a woman took the child while he as babysitting. "He'd been doing cocaine and he got a severe headache from doing it," Madonna McKillip, the mother of Leslie Ray Brockert, 28, said in an interview with KWQC-TV Thursday. Brockert was being held in lieu of $287,000 bond on charges relating to the disappearance and death of Amber Hayes last week. "He was laying on the couch with a pillow over his head, and a woman came in and described where Mary was at and things about her that led him to believe that Mary did indeed send her after the baby, and so he let her take the baby," McKillip said. "This woman packed the diaper bag and took the baby," McKillip said he relaying the account her son gave her during a visit to his jail cell Sunday night. Amber Hayes' decapitated skull and legs were found 15 miles from her home Sunday afternoon by two youngsters riding all-terrain vehicles near Lake Odessa in a wooded area of Louisa County. A pink diaper bag and blanket were found near the baby's remains. Investigators were considering additional charges against Brockert, the boyfriend of the baby's mother, Mary Hayes, 24. Police Sgt. John LeMar has said one of the charges under consideration is first-degree murder. Convictions of either first-degree kidnapping or first-degree murder carry a mandatory sentence of life in prison in Iowa. Authorities have declined to say whether they have other suspects in the baby's disappearance and death after interviewing more than 100 people in the case. Mary Hayes said she returned home after an evening out with a friend and discovered her daughter was missing at about 1:30 a.m. June 9. Hayes had left the child with Brockert, who lived with the baby's mother. Authorities said Brockert came out of the back door of the Hayes home as Mary Hayes returned early Thursday, took her car keys and drove away. Hayes went inside the house to check on Amber and found the baby was gone. Documents filed in Muscatine County District Court indicate Brockert may have had a troubled relationship with a child in the past. A June 1983 presentence investigation report stated that Brockert "said that he has, in the past, received treatment at the Great River Mental Health Center after he alleged to have physically abused his girlfriend's child." In the past, Brockert had been sentenced to jail time for burglary, theft and marijuana possession conviction, but he has not faced abuse nor assault charges. However, Renee Brockert, said she has trusted her brother-in-law with her children on numerous occasions. "He always loved playing with them and letting them sit on his lap and stuff like that," Renee Brockert told KWQC. "I've never seen him violent. He was not and never has until this day been able to stand the sight of blood, he'll pass out. He just simply will pass out." Meanwhile, Marvin Flake, Mary Hayes' stepfather, said Brockert repeatedly listened to a bizarre rock song called "Devil's Child," but authorities said they have not established any connection between satanic cult activity and the baby's death. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 794 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 06/22/88 11:33:35 (Read 19 Times) From: JASON MOORE To: ALL Subj: SEDALIA MO. YOUTH MURDER 7 06-19-88 12:10 pcd SEDALIA, Mo. (UPI) _ A teen-ager has been convicted of first-degree murder in the death of a fellow student who was beaten to death with a baseball bat in a Satanic cult ritual. A Pettis County jury delibertated five hours before finding Theron Roland of Carl Junction, Mo., guilty of first-degree murder Saturday night. Roland was one of three teen-agers charged with participating in the death of Stephen Newberry, who was hit 70 times with a baseball bat Dec. 6. Newberry's body was dropped into 10 feet of water in a cistern near the town. Roland's defense attorney had asked that Roland be found innocent by reason of mental disease or defect. --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 878 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 06/28/88 17:37:29 (Read 12 Times) From: JOE TOTARO To: FIONN MACCUMHAIL Subj: SATANISM, ET AL Hello Michelle & Fionn. You are probably right about Satanism being more sound than fury, but it is furious (if Shakespeare will forgive me...). My point is that you cheapen the phenomenon when you say someone "just" slaughters a baby/rapes a young girl/butchers animals/burns down a house because they are Satanist -- or a sociopath who is playing at being a Satanist. The very essence of the Satanism danger is that it has given such people a common bond. They will meet other such people, perhaps seek them out. REAL organized Satanists actively screen the nuts, weirdos & convicts they come across, looking for the one{ to choose. The most dangerous Satanists don't get caught as a rule, and their crimes fade into the background "noise" of each day's bad news, with no inkling that the vanished 12-year-old, the fire set at the hospital, and the crossbow attack in the same town could all be somehow related. Do you see my point? GT --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 913 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 06/29/88 21:01:00 (Read 13 Times) From: BILL RAGSDALE To: FIONN MACCUMHAIL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 878 (RE: SATANISM, ET AL) Ive had some problems with some supposedly "tame" pagans. People who follow Aleister Crowley and are into practicing Magick and mind expansion techniques. The people you are claiming that are basically tame are not. I have noted from their behavior that they are not your everyday rational run of the mill person. They have sent me threatening mail and phone calls and embarked upon a mini-terrorist campaign against myself and my family and somehow feel justified by doing it. I read excerpts from their "Book of the Law", and I can see brainwashing passages that gives them this idea. I must say that all of the pagans I have met thus far are quite nasty people and I would rather deal with the most radical fundamentalist christian on any given day. --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: нн Pillars Of Hercules нн Led ZedZap нн (918)627-7796 (1:170/224) Msg#: 920 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 06/30/88 10:51:18 (Read 16 Times) From: PHILLIP HANSFORD To: JOE TOTARO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 878 (SATANISM, ET AL) Media blitz aside, I think you will find (if you seriously research this) that there are very very few hardcore Satanists who go so far as to commit murder (or even animal sacrifice). There is certainly no conspiracy or networking of those types. To say that there is is the terrorist tactics of Christian Hysterics...//Phil// --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 921 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 06/30/88 10:56:04 (Read 14 Times) From: PHILLIP HANSFORD To: BILL RAGSDALE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 913 (RE: SATANISM, ET AL) Amazing, how in one message you have managed to step on thousands of people's toes. You are, of course, entitled to your opinions, but if you treat pagans the way you write about them, it is understandable that you may have had bad experiences with them. I could say the same thing about Christians. But obviously it wouldn't be valid to generalize on the basis of few experiences that all Christians are narrow-minded hypocrites (would it??)... When I was in high school I knew a red-headed bully who swore a lot. On the basis of that shall we conclude that everyone with red hair is a bully who swears a lot? Get reasonable... //Phil// --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 922 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 06/30/88 17:44:52 (Read 11 Times) From: JOE TOTARO To: PHILLIP HANSFORD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 920 (SATANISM, ET AL) But the problem with Satanists is that they }iDO NETWORK. They'll drive across country to meet at someone's house in Yonkers (for example). They can and do arrange for "bad things" to happen to people 3000 miles away. As to your paganism remarks, please believe that I feel that Satanists are the sort of pagans that a Christian like Torquemada would be right at ease with (until one of them killed the other). Problem with blood sacrifice is that its a step backward sociologically. Get used to that and your grandchildren can get used to more atavistic things. Eventually you're appologizing to things ... and then eating them. Finally you're discoursing with your enemies (in fetish form) ... and eating THEM when you catch up with them. I guess what I'm saying and what my investigations are revealing to me is that this is a slippery slope. Modern Christians can degenerate into Santaria rites ... modern pagans can degenerate into practicing Satanists. But with the old religion, it's Moloch that's waiting for you at the end of your slide. All this beside the point. Satanists are stupid as well as savage. They are being used and they know it. They have given up their loved ones as hostage to their master(s) and soon realize they can't escape -- it's like Russian Roulette. Sure the media trivialize Satanism, but consider: If for every deranged teenager who is captured murdering playmate/animals/opening graves/robbing churches/starting fires ... another teenager finds his way into a group}i (that offers sex, dru{s, money & other blandishments) THEN what are we dealing with? I know this is unpleasant for you people to deal with, but there it is. GT --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 929 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/01/88 21:57:00 (Read 11 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: FIONN MACCUMHAIL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 922 (RE: SATANISM, ET AL) I know what you mean. Any more, every time the police find a body, I cringe, just waiting for the dreaded W and S words to pop up. BB Rowan --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: Rock Island (on) Line - Newalla, Ok.- (405)391-9488 (1:147/3) Msg#: 933 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/01/88 09:29:56 (Read 13 Times) From: MICHELLE HASS To: JOE TOTARO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 922 (SATANISM, ET AL) Are you a meat eater??? If so, you already kill animals for your food, either directly or by paying another to do so. The act of asking permission of the Spirit of the animal is an act of RESPECT. That animal you eat is a SENTIENT (feeling) being. Same with the plants that a strict vegetarian eats. They're also sentient. Hard to tell from just looking, but a plant DOES seem to react to stimuli. So we, as omnivores (creatures that eat both meat and vegetable matter) are part of the food chain. For someone to not honor the creature you feed on is to commit murder, in my view. You can't just simply go Vegetarian, or Vegan, for the plant kingdom is sentient too. Asking permission is an act of respect. it isn't worship. And it certainly does NOT lead to human sacrifice. Do we understand each other??? MK-H --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 937 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/01/88 14:58:50 (Read 12 Times) From: JOE TOTARO To: MICHELLE HASS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 933 (SATANISM, ET AL) We understand each other. Reread my post. Do you slaughter your own animals for food/clothing/soap etc.? Or have you foresworn meat? Just curious. GT --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 951 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/01/88 07:53:00 (Read 10 Times) From: ELIAS LEVI To: BILL RAGSDALE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 937 (RE: SATANISM, ET AL) Of course (not in defense of the OTO) you fail to mention that you placed yourself in the middle of the bullseye with a lot of chest beating and I have read many messages where you dared them to take a shot at you, up to and including listing in a public area your name, address and phone number! Under the circumstances (coupled with your irritating mesages, etc), its hard to have any sympathy for your situation. Its like walking into a biker bar and calling everyone in it a wimp and then complaining after you find your teeth on the floor. If you wish to avoid conflict just remember; Out of sight, out of mind! --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: нн Pillars Of Hercules нн Led ZedZap нн (918)627-7796 (1:170/224) Msg#: 957 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/01/88 10:43:00 (Read 10 Times) From: BILL RAGSDALE To: ELIAS LEVI Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 951 (RE: SATANISM, ET AL) Its not that easy to brush off. You are forgetting the person I was debating with ASKED me for some verification as to who I was. He stated "I did some checking today and I called all the Ragsdales in the phone book". Sooner or later he would have said "aha! I know who you are!". Up until this time he had made no threats or negative actions against my person and therefore I trusted him with the information that he sought. I will add to this that there is a big difference between a person who draws the line and dares someone to step over it, to the actual person who steps over the line first. Carrying a personal war beyond the bbs level is not only ridiculous it is immature as well. They were the first ones to cross the line. If they do not have the maturity to leave it where it belongs then they shouldnt be allowed on the modems. Another case in point is that their messages are at least just as irritating and insulting as my messages and have been since day one. --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: нн Pillars Of Hercules нн Led ZedZap нн (918)627-7796 (1:170/224) Msg#: 962 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/03/88 12:07:00 (Read 9 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: PHILLIP HANSFORD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 875 (RE: SATANISM, ET AL) Phil, have you read "Satan Wants You" by Arthur Lyons? I'm readiong it right now and it's very interesting. Lyons hypothesizes that the whole Satanic conspiracy is a giant job of media hype. I can believe it too, from my own studies. There are only a very few cases with any hard evidence and virtually all of these are cases of wacked out teens on drugs getting into strange stuff. My questions about all these supposedly adult survivors of Satanic cults are as follows: 1. Are the police investigating the claims of these people who are admitting to being accessories to everything from rape and kidnapping to murder? 2. If these claims have been investigated and found to be true, has anyone been prosecuted? 3. If these claims have been investigated and found false, why hasn't someone denounced the liars? Seriously folks, IF what these people say is true, they must have names, dates, places, etc. If they went to the cops and the cops investigated it, if could be shut down right? One woman who spoke at a Pagan gathering claimed that her husband was a cop. She herself claimed to be one of these survivors. Why wasn't he doing something? It's a CRIME to withold evidence from the cops. !!! BB Rowan --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: Rock Island (on) Line - Newalla, Ok.- (405)391-9488 (1:147/3) Msg#: 963 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/03/88 12:10:00 (Read 15 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: JOE TOTARO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 962 (RE: SATANISM, ET AL) Again, I ask you for PROOF that these so called Satanists will travel miles to engage in horriffic practices. THIS STUFF IS URBAN LEGEND !!!!! --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: Rock Island (on) Line - Newalla, Ok.- (405)391-9488 (1:147/3) Msg#: 976 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/05/88 11:09:01 (Read 13 Times) From: PHILLIP HANSFORD To: ROWAN MOONSTONE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 962 (RE: SATANISM, ET AL) Hello! Thanks for the note...Yes, I have considered the Satanism thing to be media hype. Also, it is a *way to make money*. (Have you seen the prices some of those so-called experts charge for their seminars etc??). And it is a power play. Certain Christian Fundamentalists realize they are losing power, so they invent a 'problem' with Satanism in order to try to gain it back. Oh maybe some of them are hystical enough (Christian Hysterics) to believe their own lies. But obviously the facts don't match the verbiage. For example, 'File 18' claims there are 40,000-60,000 ritual murders a year! Where are the bodies?? I think the only conspiracy here is those kinds of *lies*...//Phil// --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 981 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/05/88 21:12:14 (Read 13 Times) From: JOE TOTARO To: PHILLIP HANSFORD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 976 (RE: SATANISM, ET AL) Phillip, excuse my butting in, but what is this File 18, or Vile 18 as someone else called it? It doesn't seem to be in the file section, but I'm still figuring out how this bulletin board works. Is it here? Sorry to interrupt. GT --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 982 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/06/88 16:29:21 (Read 12 Times) From: PHILLIP HANSFORD To: JOE TOTARO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 981 (RE: SATANISM, ET AL) Not sure if File 18 is in the file section here or not. Probably not... It is actually a series of 'newsletters' which are distributed to thousands of police around the country at tax payers expense. (some kind people have typed several issues up into electronic form)...The scary thing is that these things are filled with false information that attempts to tie in everything from Jews and women's lib and rock music to traditional pagans with a satanic conspiracy and ritual murder... To hear the 'Christian Hysterics' who write this junk talk, there are 40,000-60,000 ritual murders a year. The Unicorn is the anti-Christ. The New age movement is satanic....And it goes on (and gets worse). You may not want to read it, but if you do, it is online on my board (Mysteria, 818-353-8891, PC Pursuitable), along with a lot of other similarly upsetting material (and also a lot of interesting articles on metaphysics religion, and the occult)...//Phil// --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 1016 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/07/88 18:42:00 (Read 14 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: PHILLIP HANSFORD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 875 (RE: SATANISM, ET AL) you bet your boots I've seen those prices. And the folks who are the "experts" in this are making a quite tidy living doing the talk show circuit and selling books. Pat Pulling at BADD had been known to bring in $600 a head for her seminars. Plus book sales, and video sales( Dr. Walter Martin has a series on the Kingdom of the Cults. 13 videos for $60 @) and on and on. I've already invested quite a bit in books and subscriptions to magazines for my research. Indeed, it's a growth industry for sure. BB Rowan --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: Rock Island (on) Line - Newalla, Ok.- (405)391-9488 (1:147/3) Msg#: 1017 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/07/88 18:46:00 (Read 18 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: JOE TOTARO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1016 (RE: SATANISM, ET AL) File 18 is a publication put out by a police officer in Boise Idaho, which purports to deal with facts concerning "occult crime". In reality,k it is full of unproven allegations and misinformation. There is quite a brouhaha going on right now over it. I don't know if it is on line at Cult Monitor, but I think Earthrite has it in the file area, and I know Wierdbase in St. Louis has at least 4 issues in the files by now. I've got all of the issues except one in my files. If you can't find them anyplace else, leave me an address and I'll send you xeroxes of them. I'm one of the 3 folks who "discovered" and procured this little jewel, which says" For police use onlyl!!! lDo not release to the public or the press"R I G H T !!!!! BB Rowan --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: Rock Island (on) Line - Newalla, Ok.- (405)391-9488 (1:147/3) Msg#: 1062 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/08/88 19:14:00 (Read 19 Times) From: KEN ARBUCKLE To: PHILLIP HANSFORD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 875 (RE: SATANISM, ET AL) Dear Sir, Are you suggesting that Satanism has no Jonestown's to its credit? ken --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: Maltese Alien * Carnegie, PA * (412) 279-7011 * FidoNet (1:129/41) Msg#: 1065 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/09/88 18:51:00 (Read 20 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: KEN ARBUCKLE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1062 (RE: SATANISM, ET AL) I'm afraid it has not been PROVEN that Satanism exists, outside of the established Church of Satan in S. F. and the Temple of Set, and some pretty weird , wacked out , drug crazed teen agers. The numerous allegations of "ritualistic child abuse" have NO hard evidence to go on , and one by one, the cases are falling apart. I've followed the McMartin Day Care thing for quite a while, and it's a comedy of errors all the way. Even one of the DA's assistants quit because he said the children were being manipulated. The FBI doesn't believe it exists, and neither does the Wisc. Governor's Task force leader on "cult Crime" All the hard evidence is in the area of crazy teens. --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: Rock Island (on) Line - Newalla, Ok.- (405)391-9488 (1:147/3) Msg#: 1078 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/10/88 21:23:00 (Read 20 Times) From: BRAD HICKS To: KEN ARBUCKLE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1065 (RE: SATANISM, ET AL) KA> Are you suggesting that Satanism has no Jonestown's to KA> its credit? If he's not, then I am. I'm not a Satanist, but I insist that there is nothing like enough evidence to convict Satanists per se of crimes, or to link any Satanic group or organization to any massacre, mass or individual. --- Sirius 0.50 * Origin: WeirdBase * St. Louis * 1-314-741-2231 * (Opus 1:100/523) Msg#: 1120 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/13/88 17:51:00 (Read 23 Times) From: ROWAN MOONSTONE To: FIONN MACCUMHAIL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1078 (RE: SATANISM, ET AL) Fionn, have you read "Satan Wants You!" by Arthur Lyons? He goes into that very fact quite a bit and uses the case of the Finders as an excellent example. Bb Rowan --- QuickBBS v2.01 * Origin: Rock Island (on) Line - Newalla, Ok.- (405)391-9488 (1:147/3) Msg#: 1128 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/14/88 11:20:19 (Read 24 Times) From: PHILLIP HANSFORD To: KEN ARBUCKLE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1062 (RE: SATANISM, ET AL) I am suggesting that Satanism (so called) and such things as ritual murder are unrelated to one another most of the time. My impression is that genuine Satanism is pretty rare, and even when it does occur, it need not be the dangerous variety. While I am not advocating Satanism, they have the right to exist under freedom of religion. I think Satanism (and even the occult movement in general) is being treated as a 'scape goat'. Somebody's been watching too many cheap movies...//Phil// --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 973 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/00/88 00:03:00 (Read 9 Times) From: SHARON CROKE To: ERNEST SEERING Subj: W & S WORDS > What is a "W" or an "S" word? > "witchcraft" or "satanism" - referring to the lumping of the two together whenever something untraditional occurs, especially a gory murder. Witches greatly resent having Satanists lumped with them as a class - Satanists are more properly a Christian sub-cult (being anti-Christian but within the J-D structure), not a separate religion. And while you can find Satanists who claim to be witches, you'll have a terrible time locating a Wiccan who claims to be a Satanist, or will accept the practices of one. --- Opus 1.03b <> NoOrigin 3.1 --- ConfMail V3.31 * Origin: TIDMADT 703-370-7054: The Cultevader (1:109/728) Msg#: 979 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/05/88 19:41:53 (Read 15 Times) From: MICHELLE HASS To: JOE TOTARO (Rcvd) Subj: MEAT No, I do not slaughter my own animals for food. The facts of life in living in "civilization" preclude such a thing. Besides, there's not much game to be had where I live, unless you count the *&^$&^$&^ Peacock across the street....tell me, do you know if Peacock is good roasted or stewed?? (grin) Ideally one who chooses to be a meat eater should hunt for themselves. But since that is a virtual impossibility in urban or sub-urban areas, you do what you can. I honor and thank the animal that gave its life for my food. I have posted several times about my belief (which is shared by most nutritionists, BTW) that although the human body is not made for a meat-only diet, it is also not made for a strictly vegetarian one either. I eat both. MK-H --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 980 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 07/05/88 20:48:09 (Read 14 Times) From: JOE TOTARO To: MICHELLE HASS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 979 (MEAT) Peacock is supposed to be pretty good, actually. Gamey, but nice. They are obnoxious birds, aren't they. Foul fowl. Actually, animal protien (lean meat) is supposed to be good for dieting, because you burn as much energy digesting the protien as it adds to your body. Problem is the fat. We digest it easily use some of it for energy and store the rest in various places including our arteries. I'm a lusty meat eater but I've tempered my habit lately while contemplatin g my mortality, FYI. GT --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 1743 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 08/19/88 23:14:50 (Read 14 Times) From: JAMES MACCURDY To: DAVE BAUR Subj: RE: SATAN The God you describe seems similar (to a beginner in these things, at least) to the Ain Soph of the Qabala. I would recommend that you pick up a copy of Israel Regardie's "The Tree of Life". It is a very clear explanation of the Qabalistic view of these things, and a very interesting book. --James R. MacCurdy --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 2173 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 08/26/88 23:05:00 (Read 13 Times) From: PAUL EKDAHL To: DAVE BAUR Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1743 (RE: SATAN) Dear Dave...Why do you believe that Satan does not exist?... Do you believe that there is a God? . Have a good day... Paul --- * Origin: <> (Opus 1:143/5) Msg#: 2286 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 08/29/88 15:38:00 (Read 11 Times) From: WILL SUTTER To: SENDAR MAJERE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2173 (RE: SATAN) I have a close friend who thought that she was in a seance where this type of "evil spirit" appeared. Scared the heck of her for a few days. Her conclusion was that the "spirits" most likely to appear would be those who never detached themselves from this earthly existence, that they never began to enjoy the bounties of the spiritual existence, had virtually no spiritual characteristics to begin with at the time they "left the physical vessel". Sounds logical to me. The conclusion was if thats the type of "spirits" that might show up, why bother to contact them. --- ConfMail V3.31 * Origin: Rock Island Online (405) 391-xxxx (1:147/3) Msg#: 2472 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 08/31/88 06:18:00 (Read 15 Times) From: PAUL EKDAHL To: DAVE BAUR Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2286 (RE: SATAN) Dear Dave..... I don't know how much studying you have done... but to understand something or to be good at something you must study. Having a good imagination is niece... but it must be tested to see if it has any value. For myself I do believe there is a Devil... but this is because I believe in the Bible. Dave...it took a lot of studying though before I trusted the Bible...(about a year). I first studied evolution/creation and then the major religions...before I decided the Bible could be trusted. Dave...do a test....(Bible)...Is the (history, health, science and prophecy) true or not. There is a good book that you should read.. "EVIDENCE THAT DEMANDS A VERDICT by McDowell. He first started out trying to disprove the Bible... but 2 1/2 years later became a Christain. Remember... I wise man always understands both sides. Do have a good day..... Paul --- * Origin: <> (Opus 1:143/5) Msg#: 2170 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 08/28/88 20:09:26 (Read 15 Times) From: SENDAR MAJERE To: ALL Subj: SATAN I have a friend that is interested in calling a spirit up from the underworld. He would like to talk to someone who has actually done this and know what all can and does happen. Please leave me a message here if you can be of any help. Thanks.. SENDAR MAJERE --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 2292 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 08/30/88 15:36:47 (Read 13 Times) From: PHILLIP HANSFORD To: SENDAR MAJERE Subj: CALLING UP SPIRITS Calling up a spirit from the underworld? I assume you mean demon. It can be done I guess, but why would you want to? If you attempt this most likely nothing will happen at all. Or if it does, it may be very dangerous...In magick we say there is a connectedness in all things, so if you try to call up a spirit from the underworld you are calling up an aspect of yourself (primitive atavism)... If you are interested in this as a 'parlor trick', you may be better off just to go rent a B movie from your local video store. It would probably be more dramatic...Generally, for evocation to visible appearance (I assume that is what you are looking to happen) you need to have someone there who has special mediumistic qualities...//Phil// --- TBBS v2.0 * Origin: Cult Monitor LA (818)985-2701 (102/744) Msg#: 2521 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 09/17/88 20:00:10 (Read 17 Times) From: ANDY VANN To: ALL Subj: GERADO RIVERA SHOW APn 09/08 0120 Names ------ LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Geraldo Rivera says he'll be host of a weekly news show called "The Investigators" patterned after "60 Minutes" and "20-20," and will examine devil worship in an NBC special this fall. Rivera said Wednesday he would make room in his busy schedule by not renewing his contract with "Entertainment Tonight." The contract expires Oct. 2. Rivera said he will serve as host, narrator and in-studio interviewer for the new syndicated news show, which is being offered for broadcast on Saturday and Sunday evenings and will make its debut this spring. The Oct. 25 NBC special, to be called "Devil Worship: Exposing Satan's Underground," will include coverage of satanic rituals and, Rivera hopes, a real exorcism. Msg#: 2524 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 09/18/88 15:55:38 (Read 18 Times) From: JOE TOTARO To: ANDY VANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2521 (GERADO RIVERA SHOW) What could be more insipid than Geraldo on satanism? Geraldo on satanism with an exorcism thrown in! That loudmouth buzzard will only add to the hysteria by trying to cash in on it. As an investigator, the only thing that gives me comfort in THIS development is that Geraldo is always the LAST to cash in on a craze. Problem is that when people write a topic off as b*llsh*t -- usually when they see Geraldo exploiting their interest and wasting their time -- then GENUINE developments tend to get lost in the collective amnesia that follows. It's either feast or famine: widespread public interest or nobody could care less. By the time Geraldo's finished, nobody could care less. GT Msg#: 2525 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 09/18/88 22:01:06 (Read 16 Times) From: ANDY VANN To: JOE TOTARO (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2524 (GERADO RIVERA SHOW) Joe, you say that you are an investigator--what do you investigate? Can you tell us more about it and what you've found out? Msg#: 2527 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 09/18/88 22:47:16 (Read 17 Times) From: JOE TOTARO To: ANDY VANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2525 (GERADO RIVERA SHOW) I always have a couple of projects in the works. One of them is on Satanism -- cults & associated crimes. For what it's worth, my conclusions on the subject of satanist cults and gangs is not much different from Maury Terry's or Larry Kahner's. They're real, they're out there,y number between 2,00 and 10,000 individuals who range from high-school dabblers toxD sexual sadists to multi=generational families that practice ritual sexual abuse & sacrifice within a family unit. They have definitely developed links to drug gangs and porno gangs, and there is a distinct possibility -- only possibility, mind you -- that they serve as contractors for intelligence agencies of one or more governments. GT Msg#: 2528 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 09/19/88 09:34:44 (Read 15 Times) From: ANDY VANN To: JOE TOTARO (Rcvd) Subj: GANGS & INTELLIGENCE Your message is very interesting. Could you elaborate more on the drug and porno gangs angle. I totally don't understand the intelligence angle to it, unless you are talking about Lt. Col. Aquino. Could you be more specific. Are you a Private Investigator or a cop? Msg#: 2530 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 09/19/88 16:30:41 (Read 15 Times) From: JOE TOTARO To: ANDY VANN (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2528 (GANGS & INTELLIGENCE) Neither a P.I. or a cop. I'm a writer/journalist. The drug connections are relatively low-level transportation & distribution. The porn connection is more difficult for me to gauge, though I know it's there to s{me extent I don't know to what extent and whether it involves children, students being blackmailed or just more or less willing women/men who do it for drugs or money. gt Msg#: 2587 *SATANIC_RUMOR* 09/30/88 10:10:07 (Read 13 Times) From: FELIS CONCOLOR To: ALL Subj: AD IN LA READER LAST WEEK This is something that kinda piqued my curiosity that showed up in the LA Geekly...Here goes: "Teachings from 'The Compleat Witch' and 'The Satanic Bible' by Anton La Vey offered by his daughter, Zeena Le Vey (Recently seen on AM LA and The Late Show) (213) 969-0852/ PO Box 93982 Hollywood, CA 90093." Will investigate further on this. I'm always out for a few good laughs...The Highly Irreverend Felis Concolor, Church of the Subgenius.

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