Job User ID Nod Ch Tlk Handle - 20 75376,1620 CVK 18 Dale Wedge 26 71250,2740 PPA 18 Aaron

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Job User ID Nod Ch Tlk Handle --- ----------- --- -- --- ------------ 20 75376,1620 CVK 18 Dale Wedge 26 71250,2740 PPA 18 Aaron 45 75326,3453 CGL 18 GL 49 74766,1150 NRK 18 Fallon 50 73170,54 STC 18 Elizabeth Clark 57 76703,303 HPV 18 Dick DeLoach 64 72326,3625 DCI 18 bruce maccabee 72 72135,424 PNC 18 Drax 80 71260,2620 PNX 18 ERIC 84 76703,266 CSJ 18 G-WIZ 110 73217,704 OCM 18 STARRIDER 114 71450,3260 TSA 18 james mcgaha Optical physicist with the US NAvy.... and head of the Fund for UFO Research. He is a proponent... of the reality of UFOs, and will be hosting the.... 1987 Mutual UFO Network Symposium in Washington DC in June of this year... Couple of quick conventions: Please use 3 periods to signify.... that you have more to say. When you are finished, type GA (Go Ahead)... Please signify that you have a question by... typing a ? and I will recognize you in order. Now then, welcome, Dr. Maccabee. How are you this evening? (18,Aaron) ? Say something, Bruce, anything. (18,bruce maccabee) bye Not that, Bruce! (18,G-WIZ) he's gone. (18,Fallon) aliens kidnapped him. stdby, hes on the phone with me (18,Dale Wedge) Klass and Ranndi Flim Flamemed him!!!! (18,G-WIZ) maybe my old friend dick can help! (18,G-WIZ) ga (18,Dick DeLoach) Glad to, Georgia. What would you like me to do? ga (18,G-WIZ) talk about UFOs. (18,G-WIZ) ga OK, he's coming back on.... (18,Dick DeLoach) Aha! ... I'd like it if... (18,Dick DeLoach) (Will if you need me to, Georgia, but... I were the only one telling him what to do, he is a bit confused. OK? (18,Dick DeLoach) will hold up as Bruce seems to be coming back) (18,G-WIZ) ok. Would like you to participate, though, Dick, need a REASONED skeptical voice. (18,Dick DeLoach) (Agree with Jim. Let's the rest of us pipe down. ) Gracias. (18,Dick DeLoach) (Ready when you are, Jim) OK. While we wait for Bruce, I might tell you that... one of the things he will be talking about is the new book, "Communion" by Whitney Strieber. ... its a supposedly true story of his abduction experience (streibers). (18,G-WIZ) ok he's here. Welcome back, Bruce, we promise to be more orderly. (18,bruce maccabee) Hello . This is Bruce Maccabee. I hope someone hear's (sees?) me this time.? Yes, loud and clear. Thanks for returning. (18,bruce maccabee) OK. What would you like to talk about? (18,Dick DeLoach) ? (18,ERIC) ? OK, aaron had the first question, then dick then dale. Arron? (18,Dale Wedge) ? (18,Aaron) what is the subject GA (18,Dale Wedge) hahaha The subject is UFOs. Why dont we come back to you... and go right to Dick DeLoach. Dick? (18,Aaron) ok ga (18,Dick DeLoach) ok... (18,Dick DeLoach) Dr Maccabee .... (18,Dick DeLoach) I understand you administer what might be... (18,Dick DeLoach) the largest computerized database of UFO info there is. ... (18,Dick DeLoach) Can you tell us a little bit about it and ... (18,Dick DeLoach) is it possible for others besides yourself to .. (18,Dick DeLoach) log in and access this? Also ... (18,Dick DeLoach) Can you give us the mailing address and number of ... (18,Dick DeLoach) the Fund for UFO Research? ga (18,bruce maccabee) Should I answer now? Yes, please (and others, please remember that... Dr. Maccabee has a 40 column screen) (18,bruce maccabee) You are probably referring to the computer UFO Netweork (18,bruce maccabee) In seattle, Washington. You can log onto that data base (18,bruce maccabee) And the number for logon is206 722 5738. (18,bruce maccabee) ... The mailing address of the Fund for UFO Research is (18,bruce maccabee) Box 277 , Mt. Rainier, MD 20712 (18,bruce maccabee) ga I should mention here... that our original guest, Dale Goudie, ... is the administrator of that database,... and couldn't be here tonight... He (may) be here next week. Dr. Macabee is a ... user of that database, however. OK, Dale Wedge? (18,Dale Wedge) Dr. Maccabee - have you had a chance to look... (18,Dale Wedge) at Dale Goudie's film on his UFO?....and... (18,Dale Wedge) since there is a lull in activity... (18,Dale Wedge) have you gone back over your... (18,Dale Wedge) findings on the Trent photos... (18,Dale Wedge) and the New Zealand Film... (18,Dale Wedge) for any new discovery.ga (18,bruce maccabee) I have not seen Goudie's videotape, although (18,bruce maccabee) he has promised that I will see it eventually (shortly?) (18,bruce maccabee) There really has been no lull in activities related to the UFO (18,bruce maccabee) phenomenon, although there has been a lull in the number (18,bruce maccabee) of sightings reported in the media. I should point out that (18,bruce maccabee) Goudi'es data base shows MORE THAN 300 reports since May 1985 when (18,bruce maccabee) he started. ... (18,bruce maccabee) AS for going over ould work, yes I have revisited the Trent Photo case (1950) (18,bruce maccabee) in order to prepare a paper for the Center for UFO studies (18,bruce maccabee) to publish in the next Journal of UFO studies (18,bruce maccabee) up lot of my time up until about a year ago. (18,bruce maccabee) ... (18,bruce maccabee) I have written several papers on it which have been presented at (18,bruce maccabee) meetings ot eh Society for Scientific Exploration (18,bruce maccabee) (SSE). I'm afraid all the "discoveries" were made a while ago when I was working (18,bruce maccabee) more or less continually on i. I (18,bruce maccabee) .... questions I won't forget. However, I obviously do keep (18,bruce maccabee) forgetting to stop before I get to 80 charactes. Sorry. I'll try to (18,bruce maccabee) do better. Also, I'm typing as fast as I can without making complete (18,bruce maccabee) garbage of the English language. Take your time, no real rush....If I may briefly followup... how do you answer the charge that the Trent photo... contains a shadow that indicates .... it was shot at a time other than... what the photographer said? GA (18,bruce maccabee) found to be not completely consistent with a sun shadow . The (18,bruce maccabee) details are quite complex, related to (18,bruce maccabee) the brightness of the shadow compared (18,bruce maccabee) to what would be expected for shadow contrast (18,bruce maccabee) if the shadow were due to the sun. (18,bruce maccabee) However, I have to admit that the shadow is there and I can't (18,bruce maccabee) prove that the sun didn't , in some (18,bruce maccabee) and which had "edges" which were much (18,bruce maccabee) "longer" then would be expected from the (18,bruce maccabee) sun (which would give sharp shadow edges." (18,bruce maccabee) ga Thanks, OK, beforeI call on Eric.... let me reiterate, if youhave a question... for Dr. Maccabee, please type a ? and press ENTER. Eric? (18,ERIC) can you tell me if you are familiar... (18,ERIC) with a book published in the 60's by an engineer.. (18,ERIC) at white sands proving grounds who rode in a ufo to.... (18,ERIC) new york city? .. i would like to know the... (18,ERIC) name of the author and the title... (18,ERIC) ga GA, Dr. M. (18,bruce maccabee) acceptable as evidence for UFOs. On the other hand, since you (18,bruce maccabee) mentioned White Sands, I should (18,bruce maccabee) who worked at White Sands while they were (18,bruce maccabee) tracking rockets. (18,bruce maccabee) ga Bruce...when you... type over 80 characters, we lose the line. Could you repeat the... first line, which I guess held the title and author? GA (18,bruce maccabee) I am not familiar with the book that you are referring to (18,bruce maccabee) and know neither the title nor the author (although I (18,bruce maccabee) might recognize it if someone else mentions it.) ga I think he's referring to Dan Fry, a noted contactee. OK, Aaron, you were next, then Dale. GA Aaron Wait, yes Dale? (18,ERIC) thank you ga (18,Dale Wedge) The book is entitled? The White Sands Incident. (18,Dale Wedge) No. It is Daniel Fry... (18,Dale Wedge) aand is entitled On Board the Flying Saucers... (18,Dale Wedge) by Gavin Gibbons... (18,Dale Wedge) I'll send it to anyone who wants it ... (18,bruce maccabee) keep it! (18,Dale Wedge) leave name and address after the Co.ga (18,STARRIDER) ? Ha haha!! I agree Bruce... anyway... Aaron, I think your next/ (18,Aaron) what evidence is there that.. (18,Aaron) governments actually do have... (18,Aaron) a greater knowledge of UFOs... (18,Aaron) that we do and if so then... (18,Aaron) what is it that they know... (18,Aaron) and what about those seven... (18,Aaron) angels Soviet Cosmnauts... (18,Aaron) photographed? Is that a totally... (18,Aaron) spurious report? GA (18,bruce maccabee) about it since the original announce,ent. Expect it was a (18,bruce maccabee) "christmas Present" mfor the rest (18,bruce maccabee) of the world courtesy KGB or something (18,bruce maccabee) like that. As for (18,bruce maccabee) information which leads us to believe that at least the US (18,bruce maccabee) government knows more than it is saying I point to the (18,bruce maccabee) testimony of the "Roswell Incident" story for example. (18,bruce maccabee) I have just completed a paper to be published in The International (18,bruce maccabee) UFO REporter (IUR) published by the Center (18,bruce maccabee) for UFO Studies. In the paper I point out that (18,bruce maccabee) none other than Admiral Roscoe Hillenkoetter, (18,bruce maccabee) the director of the CIA in 1947-1950 roughly ( (18,bruce maccabee) (He was the first CIA director) joined an (18,bruce maccabee) organization called NICAP in 1957 (run by Donald Keyhoe (18,bruce maccabee) a pro- UFOlogist if there ever was one) (18,bruce maccabee) and in 1960 Hillenkoetter publically called (18,bruce maccabee) for an investigation and said that we must (18,bruce maccabee) find out "why they are here". He went further (18,bruce maccabee) and criticized the Air Force for using (18,bruce maccabee) special regulations and ridicule to (18,bruce maccabee) successfully cover up the fact of the (18,bruce maccabee) existence of extraterrestrial craft. (18,bruce maccabee) I could go on, but proabbly there isn't time (18,bruce maccabee) I suggest you read coming UFO journals and some material that has been published already (18,bruce maccabee) material that has been published already by MUFON and CUFOS. (18,bruce maccabee) I should also mention that in the last several years (18,bruce maccabee) there have been numerous "leaks" some of which (18,bruce maccabee) are going to end up being a newsmedia story (18,bruce maccabee) in the next few months. ga How's that for a teaser? Would anyone care to respond or ask... follow up? (18,Dale Wedge) follow your order jim OK, Dale, I think you were next, then Aaron again. (18,Dale Wedge) Dr. Maccabee - with the death of A.P.R.O..... (18,Dale Wedge) and I am a member of that and MUFON.... (18,Dale Wedge) do you see yourself asing the next ek... (18,Dale Wedge) to ccarry the torch of this... (18,Dale Wedge) phenomena...and do you ever see a day in which we can... (18,Dale Wedge) have a national database.... (18,Dale Wedge) and jim - can you talk about "Blue Witness?" (18,bruce maccabee) answer? I will at the end, if there's time. Go ahead, Dr. M (18,bruce maccabee) OK. I think you will find that there are a lot of torch (18,bruce maccabee) bearers in the wings (18,bruce maccabee) wating to take up after the deaths (18,bruce maccabee) of Hynek and Lorenzen. I do not (18,bruce maccabee) personnally want to carry the whole thing (18,bruce maccabee) on my shoulders. I also have a family to (18,bruce maccabee) worry about. Right now, for example, (18,bruce maccabee) my 3.5 year old is asking for her (18,bruce maccabee) bedtime snack.(cereal!) (18,bruce maccabee) Fortunately I think my wife can handle (18,bruce maccabee) that right now. Go ahead, Jim. What about (18,bruce maccabee) ........BLUE WITNESS?....... ga ga blue witness is something I dreamed up.... in hopes of culling all the different military "witnesses"... that each investigator claims to have met.... My thought was that there is "safety in numbers" ..GA, Aaron' (18,Aaron) ok Could the ET angle be a (18,Aaron) smokescreen to hide the fCould UFOs be aarth earth craft (18,Aaron) based on Tesla technology... (18,Aaron) Maybe they are experimental... (18,Aaron) and all the talk of... (18,Dale Wedge) Newman is a spaceman!!!! (18,Aaron) extraterrestrials ... (18,Aaron) is a smokescreen..GA (18,Aaron) GA Any response, Dr. M? Bruce? (18,bruce maccabee) After all, we saw/had them first. (18,bruce maccabee) ga Bruce, we missed a bunch ofyour lines. Just caught the last. Please... try again. (18,bruce maccabee) If UFOs are earth craft, why haven't we won? After all, (18,bruce maccabee) we had them first. (18,bruce maccabee) ga Good point. Starrider, then Dale, then Eric. (18,Aaron) maybe they are too... (18,Aaron) advanced to be... (18,Aaron) let out GA Oh, come now, Aaron. (18,bruce maccabee) Then why did anyone see them? (18,bruce maccabee) ga (18,STARRIDER) first of all... (18,STARRIDER) i want to say hello from the... (18,STARRIDER) eastern shore of md and assure.. (18,STARRIDER) Dr. Maccabee that my handle... (18,STARRIDER) isnt in ref to UFO's... my question... (18,STARRIDER) is if our govt is trying to... (18,STARRIDER) cover up the reality of these sightings... (18,STARRIDER) sorry...have an emergency will be back GA OK, Dale? (18,Dale Wedge) FFirst Off Dr. Maccabee.... (18,Dale Wedge) If you wpould show up every week... (18,Dale Wedge) you'd help Speiser's ratings.. (18,bruce maccabee) Neilson? (18,Dale Wedge) second there needs to be a ... (18,Dale Wedge) consolidation of reports in one place... (18,Dale Wedge) and who is going to do it... (18,Dale Wedge) and not profit... (18,Dale Wedge) it seems that if Klass profits - he is a debunker... (18,Dale Wedge) if Macabbee tells the truth... (18,Dale Wedge) then he is pro... (18,Dale Wedge) where is the middle ground. - see you next week.haha (18,bruce maccabee) Should I attempt an answer? Give it your best shot, Bruce. (18,bruce maccabee) OK. There can be no consolidation of ALL UFO reports ever made (18,bruce maccabee) in one place without MUCH BUX since many (tens of thousands) are paper reports in the (18,bruce maccabee) are paper reports in the Files of NICAP (yes the NICAP (18,bruce maccabee) files still exist) APRO, CUFOS and numerous (18,bruce maccabee) other smaller organizations. (18,bruce maccabee) On the other hand, Goudie's data base will be quite complete, but (18,bruce maccabee) it starts only in May 1985. (18,bruce maccabee) As for who profits... I didn't quite (18,bruce maccabee) understand the question. By profit do you mean $$$? (18,Dale Wedge) I mean... (18,bruce maccabee) Or do you mean "who wins? in (18,bruce maccabee) in the debate? (18,Dale Wedge) If Klass has no interest... (18,Dale Wedge) why is he writing books... (18,Dale Wedge) like Randi...menzel...and oberg in Omni... (18,Dale Wedge) tell us about your book Dr. Macabbee? Waait, let me jump in... The book I mentioned before was Whitney Steibers "Communion"... it was ENDORSED by Dr. Maccabee. Could you tell us about that one? GA (18,bruce maccabee) I am not writing a book. I have written numerous articles. I have been paid by Fate (18,bruce maccabee) magazine for several of them. However, most of the (18,bruce maccabee) stuff I do costs me..... (18,bruce maccabee) As for Streiber's book, I endorsed it with the (18,bruce maccabee) phrase "Assuming (18,bruce maccabee) these events are factual... and I (18,bruce maccabee) THINK... they are, then we human beings (18,bruce maccabee) must begin a reevaluation of (18,bruce maccabee) ourselves and our place in the Universe. (18,bruce maccabee) I think they may have happened but I can't prove it. (18,Dale Wedge) ? (18,bruce maccabee) On the other hand, there are some...280 similar stories in the literature. Finished, Dr. M? (18,bruce maccabee) Where is every boady? OK, I think we should... (18,bruce maccabee) yes. start to wrap up, if I may... (18,STARRIDER) ? just ask a couple here.... First, I've been asked to .... query you on your reactions to the book, "Sky Crash", and the... Bentwaters incident itself (which the book covers). What do you make of it? (18,bruce maccabee) I expect to have one of the major witnesses at the (18,bruce maccabee) UFO symposium here in Washington, D.C. (18,bruce maccabee) June 26-28 to present (18,bruce maccabee) his version of the sighting (I refer (18,bruce maccabee) to Larry Warren, for those of you (18,bruce maccabee) who have been following the case. ga And the book? GA (18,bruce maccabee) Like (As) I said, the book is nice but (18,bruce maccabee) doesn't do (18,bruce maccabee) justice to the case. Some facts wrong, (18,bruce maccabee) etc. Mostly a history of the investigation. (18,bruce maccabee) Larry Warren himself refers to it as "Sky Trash." ga Ha ha! ....second, .... I forgot. So let me ask Bill to ask the last question. GA Bill. (18,STARRIDER) thank you... (18,STARRIDER) Dr. Maccabee.... (18,STARRIDER) why in your opinion... (18,STARRIDER) would it be to the advantage... (18,STARRIDER) of our govt, or any govt... (18,STARRIDER) to cover up the reality of these things? (18,bruce maccabee)End of question? (18,STARRIDER) sorry yes...GA (18,bruce maccabee) I guess soOK. I think that at present the gov't is (18,bruce maccabee) following a "tradition" of secrecy set (18,bruce maccabee) some 35 years ago. (18,bruce maccabee) I think that within the first year or even (18,bruce maccabee) the first few months of the first sightings (18,bruce maccabee) the gov't knew for a fact (i.e., had hardware) (18,bruce maccabee) that UFOs are real extraterrestrial or (18,bruce maccabee) from somewhere, but at least not from (18,bruce maccabee) '"here". I think the top leaders (including (18,bruce maccabee) great imConcluded that the information had such great implications for humanity that (18,bruce maccabee) that they didn't know exactly what the reaction (18,bruce maccabee) would be but suspected worldwide panic (18,bruce maccabee) of some sort. (18,bruce maccabee) Then, of course, there were the military (18,bruce maccabee) aspects.....whoever has "flying saucers" first, wins. (18,bruce maccabee) And you can't tell your friends without your enemies finding (18,bruce maccabee) out. (18,bruce maccabee) The government (really a small highly (18,bruce maccabee) select group) could not control the sightings (18,bruce maccabee) by individuals so the government (18,bruce maccabee) was NOT TRYING TO COVER UP SIGHTINGS. (18,bruce maccabee) What the government was covering up was the (18,bruce maccabee) HARD EVIDENCE. Without same, all sightings could be (18,bruce maccabee) explained/ridiculed out of existence. (18,bruce maccabee) As long as there was no reason for the scientific (18,bruce maccabee) community to think that sightings were real (18,bruce maccabee) no scientist would exert any effort to learn (18,bruce maccabee) more about what the government knew. You don't spend a lot of time searching for (18,bruce maccabee) that in which you don't believe. Thus the (18,bruce maccabee) "in group" within the gov't managed to pull off (18,bruce maccabee) the world's greatest disinformation coup. (18,bruce maccabee) I should point out that the coverup has not (18,bruce maccabee) been perfect. If it had been, we would have no (18,bruce maccabee) indication of what the government knows. (18,bruce maccabee) However, loos lips sink ships, and , in this case, a number of apparently indepeden (18,bruce maccabee) independent sources over the years had (18,bruce maccabee) supplied little bits and pieces of (18,bruce maccabee) information which, when combined, point (18,bruce maccabee) to the cosmic watergate (a phrase coined (18,bruce maccabee) by Stanton Friedman). (18,bruce maccabee) Keep watching the newsmedia in the next month (18,bruce maccabee) or two. (18,bruce maccabee) ga OK, we have to wrap it up,boys and girls, at least.... I have to go...but I want to thank you for... (18,STARRIDER) thank you spending this time with us, Dr. Macabee, and I ... apologize for the initial confusion.... I hope you can join us again sometime.... If you'd like to make yourself available... to the users who are left on line, please feel free... to take any questions. Thank you again for your substantive answers. GA (18,bruce maccabee) I have to go myself. It's been fun, but my wife is calling..... and you know what that (18,bruce maccabee) that means. (18,bruce maccabee) ga Yes...well, no, Im not married. But thanks again. See you all later.

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