To: Zhahai Stewart Msg #35, 14-Jan-89 08:18pm Subject: Re: Lilith In response to your requ

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From: Claudia Slate To: Zhahai Stewart Msg #35, 14-Jan-89 08:18pm Subject: Re: Lilith In response to your request for information on Lilith, I looked her up in "The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets" by Barbara Walker and published by Harper and Row. (1983). This book was strongly recommended to me by a Dallas parapsychology teacher, (male at that), who felt I might enjoy and benefit from this study of sexism, which is dealt with in the book from both historical and mythical viewpoints. I found this information, which I have paraphrased for the most part. Lilith, (also know as Lilit), was a relic of an early rabbinical attempt to assimilate the Sumero-Babylonian Goddess Belit-ili, or Belili, to Jewish mythology. to the Canaanites, Lilith was Baalat, the "Divine Lady". Hebraic tradition said Adam married Lilith because he grew tired of mating with animals, a common custom of Middle-Eastern herdsmen, though the Old Testament declared it a sin. Moslems were insistent on the male-superior sexual position and apparently Lilith was not Moslem, disagreed with Adam and flew away to the Red Sea. God sent angels to bring Lilith back, but she refused to return. She supposedly spent her time mating with "demons" and gave birth to "a hundred children a day". (Busy woman!) So God had to produce Eve as Lilith's more docile replacement. Lilith became the "Great Mother" of settled tribes who resisted invasions of nomadic herdsmen represented by Adam. Early Hebrews disliked the Great Mother who is said to have drank the blood of Abel after he was slain by Cain. Lilith's Red Sea was another version of Kali Ma's Ocean of Blood, which gave birth to all things. There may have been a connection between Lilith and the Etuscan divinity Leinth, who had no face and who waited at the gate of the underworld along with Eita and Persipnei, (Hades and Persephone) to receive the souls of the dead. The underworld gate was a yoni and a lily, which had no face. Admission into the underworld was often mythologized as a sexual union. The lily or lilu, (lotus) was the Great Mother's flower - yoni, whose title formed Lilith's name. The story of Lilith disappeared from the Bible, but her daughters, the lilim, haunted men for over a thousand years. The lilim were thought responsible for nocturnal emissions and the Jews still made amulets to keep away the lilim well into the Middle Ages. Greeks adopted the lilim and called them, Lamiae, Empusae, or Daughters of Hecate. Christians also adopted them and called them harlots of hell or succubae. They believed that Lilith laughed every time a Christian man has a wet dream. The Daughters of Lilith were supposedly very beautiful and presumed to be so expert at lovemaking that after an experience with one, a man couldn't be From: Zhahai Stewart To: Claudia Slate Msg #83, 20-Jan-89 01:29pm Subject: Re: Lilith Thanks for the information about Lillith. Unfortunately, it doesn't quite answer my questions about Lillith, which are not so much what the myth or legend is, as how was it propagated down thru history to us? A while ago, someone here suggested that Lillith was expunged from the Christian Bible. Others, more knowledgeable about that than I, gave reasons that that was unlikely as a Christian era event, without postulating a monumental conspiracy. OK, if Lillith is at least as old as the bible, how did the myth or legend get propogated? Was there lost ancient written material? Or was it propagated orally for many generations even after some or many of the books of the old testament were written down? Or did it arise later? As for the lovemaking of the daughters of Lillith, sounds kinda fun. (Maybe we should ask David Rice about that?) Do the sons of Pan spoil mortal women as well? :-) Barbara Walker's Encyclopedia is interesting, but seldom gives very thorough sources. It is apparently worth keeping that grain of salt on hand. I just got her Tarot cards & book; pretty powerful images, I thought. I haven't tried a reading with them yet. Thanks for the info! B*B ~z~ --- * Origin: Adelante - 300 meters above Boulder, CO (Opus 1:104/93) From: Tony Iannotti To: Zhahai Stewart Msg #116, 24-Jan-89 10:52am Subject: Re: Lilith As I understand it, Lilith is said to be as old as the bible, because she is mentioned in the Mishna, a form of commentary on the Pentateuch. Whether she was ever in what is now canonical, i.e. Genesis per se, is hard to prove or disprove. The Mishna was an oral tradition for much longer. She has been identified with Ishtar in much the same ce" way as Mercury to Thoth to Wotan. I don't think there is a literal or philological connection. --- * Origin: OPERA DEII = BaphoNet-by-the-Sea (718)499-9277 (Opus 1:107/293) From: Antony Landsman To: Zhahai Stewart Msg #122, 10-Jan-88 03:58pm Subject: Re: Lilith > Have you any insight as to where the Lillith myth > originates? For example, what are the oldest documents > that mention Lillith? If indeed Lillith goes back at least > as far as the beginnings of the old testament, was that > myth carried verbally even while the rest of the Adam & Eve > show was written? Or did Lillith originate later? Lillith is mentioned in an esoteric Jewish text called the Midrash. It is a compilation of mystical interpretations surrounding the Torah (old Testament). It was handed down orally along with the rest of the Talmud and was written down in the middle ages when the Rabbis thought that these teachings might be forgotten. Apparently Lillith was created at the same time as Adam (see the initial reference to the creation of man "Man and Woman" he created them) but somehow disappeared from the scene due to her rebelious nature. I think that she was probably the primary Goddess in the region prior to the advent and revolution of the Jehovah followers. I also tend to believe that Innana was one of her descendants. Blessed Be --- QuickBBS v2.03 * Origin: Canyonlands BBS, Moab Utah: The most scenic place on Earth (1:15/27) From: Inanna Seastar To: Antony Landsman Msg #145, 25-Jan-89 07:32pm Subject: Re: Lilith ***** Quoting message from Antony Landsman to Zhahai Stewart ***** I think that she was probably the primary Goddess in the region prior to the advent and revolution of the Jehovah followers. I also tend to believe that Inanna was one of her descendants. ***** End Quote ***** The only Lilith likely to be found in _my_ family huluppu-tree is Lilith Velkor... :-) On a more sirius note (even though I don't use Sirius any more; I use Gnome), there is no question that Inanna is a third- or later-generation goddess in the Sumerian pantheon. I rather suspect that the image of Inanna as THE Goddess before whom all other deities at least swear a little fealty comes from Uruk. Inanna was the matron goddess of Uruk, and most of our legends and such concerning her were dug up (literally) in Uruk. The myth of the huluppu-tree shows a young Inanna, in a young Uruk, trying to get help from other deities of other, older cities to get rid of a problem that was too big for her to handle at the time. The problem is solved by Gilgamesh, King of Uruk, rather than by any foreigner. Likewise, the tale of Inanna & Enki & the _me's_ (civic virtues), shows a young goddess of a young city who has managed to elevate her city into the first rank. In winning the _me's_ from Enki, Inanna adds to them by the time she gets her virtuous cargo back to Uruk. I do not recall whether Lilith was formally mentioned as being in Inanna's lineage, though. Blessed Bheer--drinking Enki under the table-- Inanna --- Gnome v1.30 * Origin: The Lizard King--Inanna Seastar's Place (1:104/45.5) ZS> "As for the lovemaking of the daughters of Lillith, sounds ZS> kinda fun. (Maybe we should ask David Rice about that?) Er, were you interested in some phone numbers? It's extreamly hard work to love a daughter of Lilith, but the rewards are undeniably worth it. I've started an extended study on strong Lilith women vs. the domesticated Eve ones. So far, with only about 18 tallies in (painstakingly and personaly researched with great, er, debauch, with plans on adding many hundreds of more into the study), the following has been observed: Most American men give out long before the Lilithian woman (or any other) will. Lilith will say "Excuse me, kind sir," (as she can't remember his name at the moment). "You're not finished, are you?!" and Eve will say "Gee, that was great!" and reach for the batteries and flee into the bathroom for an hour. Lesbians tend to be strongly Lilithian. This may be because "the only thing men are good FOR they aren't good AT," as the true and valid saying goes. Also, most if not all men are little cry babies, and Lilith can't stand for that nonsence. Conversly, Eve women always knew men make horrible lovers, but resign themselves to 4 minutes of sex twice a week, when they'd rather have 16 hours of sex every day. This is why, perhaps, Eveian women make such good Catholics. If your typical male pig says, rightly, that a woman's place is in the bed, Lilith will say "Eat shit and die!" and Eve will say "Yes, dear," and hate herself.


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