3+ Msg # 3 FNET Conference To ALL Rcvd 09-03-90 1457 Re RELIGIOUS FREEDOM PROJECT PRESS RE

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3+ Msg #: 3 FNET Conference From: JANARDANA DASA Sent: 06-01-90 16:37 To: ALL Rcvd: 09-03-90 14:57 Re: RELIGIOUS FREEDOM PROJECT PRESS RELEASE: March 15, 1990 Religious Freedom Project Media Contact: Mary Anne Ahmed, (312) 348-7788, for the Church of Scientology RFP Contact: Johnathon L. Nordquist, (312) 508-0595, for the Religious Freedom Project -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- EDUCATION GROUP FORMED TO FIGHT NEW WITCH-HUNT HYSTERIA CHICAGO - March 15, 1990 - The Religious Freedom Project has been established in Chicago by a group of volunteers to reaffirm the commitment of area religions to Freedom of Religion in the United States. Over the past year, a few groups have been fanning the fires to create a new wave of religious bigotry under the guise of "education" about the threat of Satanism. A recent article in the WALL STREET JOURNAL by Anson Shupe entitled the "Pitchmen of the Satan Scare" pointed out the mania that certain self- proclaimed experts are pushing to forward their secret assault on the Freedom of Religion guaranteed by the First Amendment to our Constitution. Foremost of these anti-religious groups is the notorious Cult Awareness Network (CAN) which has now sounded the satanic conspiracy alarm far and wide. This small group which operates out of its secret and well-hidden headquarters at 301 East Main Street in Barrington, Illinois, has taken in gullible professionals such as policemen and teachers, to look for a problem that does not, in truth, exist. CAN does this knowingly as an entrence point from which it can spread its anti-religious propaganda against established religious communities which it labels as cults. Chief spokesperson for CAN is the groups Executive National Director, Cynthia Kisser of Wonder Lake, Illinois. She has been heard on local talk shows and occasional interviews in local newspapers putting out the groups satanic message. The Religious Freedom Project, working in cooperation with representatives of religious freedom groups and churches from around the country, is established to monitor anti-religious activities and educate the public to this new form of Witch-hunt hysteria that is being created by CAN and its front groups. The project is composed of members from the Wisconsin Committee of Religious Liberty and Freedom, the Chicago-based American Freedom Coalition, the Washington, D.C.-based Coalition for Religious Freedom, the Chicago Hare Krishna (ISKCON) temple, the Virginia- based Friends of Freedom, and the Church of Scientology of Illinois. Johnathon Nordquist, director of the Project, was himself a deprogrammer associated with CAN and who took part in kidnapping and anti-religious terrorism at CAN's direction. Deprogramming is CAN's euphemism for a process of mental coercion using Korean War brainwashing techniques that were used on American prisoners of War. Mr. Nordquist relates that physical and sexual abuse have been tools applied to deprogramming victims to break their wills. For more information, or to find out how you can help, contact the Religious Freedom Project at Box 86, 1744 West Devon Avenue, Chicago, Illinois 60660 (312) 508-0595 --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-7729 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 4 FNET Conference From: JANARDANA DASA Sent: 06-01-90 16:37 To: GARTH BIGELOW Rcvd: 06-26-90 09:36 Re: RELIGIOUS FREEDOM PROJECT PRESS RELEASE: March 15, 1990 Religious Freedom Project Media Contact: Mary Anne Ahmed, (312) 348-7788, for the Church of Scientology RFP Contact: Johnathon L. Nordquist, (312) 508-0595, for the Religious Freedom Project -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- EDUCATION GROUP FORMED TO FIGHT NEW WITCH-HUNT HYSTERIA CHICAGO - March 15, 1990 - The Religious Freedom Project has been established in Chicago by a group of volunteers to reaffirm the commitment of area religions to Freedom of Religion in the United States. Over the past year, a few groups have been fanning the fires to create a new wave of religious bigotry under the guise of "education" about the threat of Satanism. A recent article in the WALL STREET JOURNAL by Anson Shupe entitled the "Pitchmen of the Satan Scare" pointed out the mania that certain self- proclaimed experts are pushing to forward their secret assault on the Freedom of Religion guaranteed by the First Amendment to our Constitution. Foremost of these anti-religious groups is the notorious Cult Awareness Network (CAN) which has now sounded the satanic conspiracy alarm far and wide. This small group which operates out of its secret and well-hidden headquarters at 301 East Main Street in Barrington, Illinois, has taken in gullible professionals such as policemen and teachers, to look for a problem that does not, in truth, exist. CAN does this knowingly as an entrence point from which it can spread its anti-religious propaganda against established religious communities which it labels as cults. Chief spokesperson for CAN is the groups Executive National Director, Cynthia Kisser of Wonder Lake, Illinois. She has been heard on local talk shows and occasional interviews in local newspapers putting out the groups satanic message. The Religious Freedom Project, working in cooperation with representatives of religious freedom groups and churches from around the country, is established to monitor anti-religious activities and educate the public to this new form of Witch-hunt hysteria that is being created by CAN and its front groups. The project is composed of members from the Wisconsin Committee of Religious Liberty and Freedom, the Chicago-based American Freedom Coalition, the Washington, D.C.-based Coalition for Religious Freedom, the Chicago Hare Krishna (ISKCON) temple, the Virginia- based Friends of Freedom, and the Church of Scientology of Illinois. Johnathon Nordquist, director of the Project, was himself a deprogrammer associated with CAN and who took part in kidnapping and anti-religious terrorism at CAN's direction. Deprogramming is CAN's euphemism for a process of mental coercion using Korean War brainwashing techniques that were used on American prisoners of War. Mr. Nordquist relates that physical and sexual abuse have been tools applied to deprogramming victims to break their wills. For more information, or to find out how you can help, contact the Religious Freedom Project at Box 86, 1744 West Devon Avenue, Chicago, Illinois 60660 (312) 508-0595 --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-7729 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 5 FNET Conference From: JANARDANA DASA Sent: 06-01-90 16:42 To: DALEN GARRIS Rcvd: -NO- Re: RELIGIOUS FREEDOM PROJECT PRESS RELEASE: March 15, 1990 Religious Freedom Project Media Contact: Mary Anne Ahmed, (312) 348-7788, for the Church of Scientology RFP Contact: Johnathon L. Nordquist, (312) 508-0595, for the Religious Freedom Project -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- EDUCATION GROUP FORMED TO FIGHT NEW WITCH-HUNT HYSTERIA CHICAGO - March 15, 1990 - The Religious Freedom Project has been established in Chicago by a group of volunteers to reaffirm the commitment of area religions to Freedom of Religion in the United States. Over the past year, a few groups have been fanning the fires to create a new wave of religious bigotry under the guise of "education" about the threat of Satanism. A recent article in the WALL STREET JOURNAL by Anson Shupe entitled the "Pitchmen of the Satan Scare" pointed out the mania that certain self- proclaimed experts are pushing to forward their secret assault on the Freedom of Religion guaranteed by the First Amendment to our Constitution. Foremost of these anti-religious groups is the notorious Cult Awareness Network (CAN) which has now sounded the satanic conspiracy alarm far and wide. This small group which operates out of its secret and well-hidden headquarters at 301 East Main Street in Barrington, Illinois, has taken in gullible professionals such as policemen and teachers, to look for a problem that does not, in truth, exist. CAN does this knowingly as an entrence point from which it can spread its anti-religious propaganda against established religious communities which it labels as cults. Chief spokesperson for CAN is the groups Executive National Director, Cynthia Kisser of Wonder Lake, Illinois. She has been heard on local talk shows and occasional interviews in local newspapers putting out the groups satanic message. The Religious Freedom Project, working in cooperation with representatives of religious freedom groups and churches from around the country, is established to monitor anti-religious activities and educate the public to this new form of Witch-hunt hysteria that is being created by CAN and its front groups. The project is composed of members from the Wisconsin Committee of Religious Liberty and Freedom, the Chicago-based American Freedom Coalition, the Washington, D.C.-based Coalition for Religious Freedom, the Chicago Hare Krishna (ISKCON) temple, the Virginia- based Friends of Freedom, and the Church of Scientology of Illinois. Johnathon Nordquist, director of the Project, was himself a deprogrammer associated with CAN and who took part in kidnapping and anti-religious terrorism at CAN's direction. Deprogramming is CAN's euphemism for a process of mental coercion using Korean War brainwashing techniques that were used on American prisoners of War. Mr. Nordquist relates that physical and sexual abuse have been tools applied to deprogramming victims to break their wills. For more information, or to find out how you can help, contact the Religious Freedom Project at Box 86, 1744 West Devon Avenue, Chicago, Illinois 60660 (312) 508-0595 --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-7729 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 8 FNET Conference From: JANARDANA DASA Sent: 06-07-90 18:26 To: ALL Rcvd: 08-29-90 22:17 Re: TERRORIST.COM AVAILABLE TERRORST.COM, a collection in self-viewing format of the major CAN deprogrammers is now available for download. --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-7729 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 9 FNET Conference From: JANARDANA DASA Sent: 06-08-90 13:04 To: ALL Rcvd: 08-29-90 22:17 Re: CAN EXPOSED From Religious Freedom Alert, Washington, D.C. -- From: RELIGIOUS FREEDOM ALERT April 2, 1990 Date: March, 1990 Page: 3 HEAD: Interviews Confirm Cult Awareness Role In Criminal Kidnappings ------------------------------------------------------------------- Three "anti-cult" activists have recently confirmed the role of the Cult Awareness Network (CAN) in setting up illegal kidnappings of adults belonging to minority religious groups. In published inte.rviews, Mr. Arnold Berendsen of Illinois, Rev. Art Morgan of Oregon, and Mr. Bob Geary of Ohio each named CAN as responsible for putting them in contact with "deprogrammers" whom they then hired. to commit criminal acts. Victims of deprogrammings have long reported that their abductions were orchestrated by the Cult Awareness Network. Last August Ginger Brown, a Christian woman in San Diego, identified CAN as responsible for her five-day ordeal at the hands of so-called "deprogrammers". More recently, Johnathon Nordquist, a deprogrammer formerly employed by CAN, gave press conferences in New York and Chi.cago exposing CAN's role in setting up deprogrammings. Now three CAN supporters have confirmed the Brown and Nordquist accounts in separate newspaper interviews. In the Peoria, Illinois _Journal_Star_ of October 24, 1989, Arnold Berendsen tells of CAN's role in kidnapping his adult daughter, a member of The Way International church. "Finally, Ber.endsen sought the help of Cult Awareness Network Response Center in Evanston, which bragged a deprogramming success rate of 80 percent, Berendsen said." Berendsen paid his daughter's kidnappers "about $10,000," but it is not known how much of the $10,.000 was received by CAN. According to ex-deprogrammer John Nordquist, CAN usually rec.eives donations from both the parents and the deprogrammers when it sets up a deprogramming. Rev. Art Morgan of Corvallis, Oregon told the _Corvallis_Gazette_Times of January 19, 1990, about CAN's role in the kidnapping of his daughter-in-law. "Through the Cult Awareness Network her parents traced her to Texas, kidnapped her screaming and fighting, and had her deprogrammed.... It cost about $25,000 to get her out." The Akron, Ohio _Beacon_Journal_ of January 21, 1990 tells of how Bob Geary found a deprog.rammer for his wife Dorothy through CAN. "The Geary's sought help from the local chapter. of the Cult Awareness Network, and were referred to a Canadian deprogrammer...." "In the Geary case, however, it is possible that Mrs. Geary consented to being. deprogrammed." Despite such evidence as this, CAN officials continue to deny that the organization has any ties to deprogramming. According to the Creskill, New Jersey _Teaneck_Suburbanite_ of November 1, 1989, "CAN President, Ron Loomis, a youth services administrator at Cornell University, and other CAN officials vehemently denied that the organization was ever involved with the kidnapping method or deprogrammers like Ted Patric.k." Critics of CAN, howev.er, point to a 1980 memo as evidence that CAN has a deliberate policy of lying about its role in deprogramming. The memo is by John Sweeney, National Director of CAN, which was then calling itself the Citizens Freedom Foundation (CFF), Sweeney writes: "CFF is an anti-cult organization and like it or not we're involved in rescues, deprogramming and lobbying. So it is okay to present another face to. the public but lets not try to conn (sic) each other. --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-7729 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 10 FNET Conference From: JANARDANA DASA Sent: 06-08-90 13:14 To: ALL Rcvd: 08-29-90 22:17 Re: GEORCE VS. ISKCON 2 12-08-88 03:46 pps Multimillion-dollar award to ex-Krishna Slashed... SAN DIEGO (UPI) _ A state appellate panel indicated Thursday it will likely throw out most of a $9.7 million jury award to a former Hare Krishna devotee who claims she was brainwashed and falsely imprisoned by the religious sect. Chief Justice Daniel J. Kremer said he and two other justices had reached a tentative decision that damages should not be awarded to Robin George on grounds of false imprisonment, intentional infliction of emotional distress and libel. Because the young woman voluntarily accepted the religious tenets of the Krishna sect when she joined a temple in 1974, "the panel has difficulty finding any restraint that in any way overcame Robin's will," said Kremer. However, Kremer said, damages awarded to Robin's mother, Marcia George, for emotional distress, libel and the wrongful death of her husband, who died of a stroke following his daughter's Krishna stay, might be upheld. The justices' final decision is due by March. If they rule against the damages to Robin George, the $9.7 million jury award, which threatened to bankrupt the Krishna sect, would be reduced to approximately $2.5 million. An Orange County jury originally awarded the Georges $32 million in 1983. A judge reduced the award to $9.7 million and placed assorted Krishna property in the United States and Canada in receivership pending appeal. Both parties have predicted the case will eventually go before the California Supreme Court, which in October ruled in favor of two plantiffs who similarly charged they were brainwashed by The Rev. Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church, which has been widely criticized for its alienating influence on young people. At age 15, Robin George left her parents' Cypress, Calif., home to live at a Krishna temple in Laguna Beach. A year later, following discussions with her parents and the Citizens Freedom Foundation, an organization devoted to cult deprogramming, she broke with the sect, returned home and later filed suit. The Georges' appeals attorney, Louis E. Goebel, argued that Robin, as a minor, was psychologically coerced into staying with the sect and forbidden to communicate with her parents. Krishna leaders went so far as to transfer the teenage girl to temples in New Orleans, La., and in Canada to distance her from her parents, said Goebel. The Krishnas "controlled her resources, her money, her clothing and her ability to travel," said Goebel. "The Little Sisters of the Poor do that all the time," Associate Justice Don R. Work responded, referring to the Catholic order. On the issue of Marcia George's damages, defense attorney Alan Martin said Robin's voluntary conversion to the Krishna religion "was at the heart of the emotional distress claim." "She adopted and embraced the religion (and) that was distressing conduct to her parents," said Martin. The justices agreed that George, even though she was a minor, was not coerced into staying with the sect for a year. "She willingly participated ... with every single element that (she) postulates as a barrier to moving back (home). She cooperated almost enthusiastically," said Kremer. --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-7729 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 14 FNET Conference From: JANARDANA DASA Sent: 06-16-90 23:48 To: ALL Rcvd: 08-29-90 22:17 Re: CAN CHALLENGE... Well, the challange went out over a month ago, both publicly and privately to many different people within the "Cult Awareness Network". No response... The challenge was: give even one proven instance where the Hare Krishna movement "deceptively recruited" someone, or engaged in "unethical indoctrination" techniques on new members. Both are buzz-terms used by the "Cult-watchers' to determine whether or not a religious group is a 'destructive cult'. The Cult-watchers' routinely throw the Hare Krishna movement in as a destructive cult... So, I challenged them. Prove even one case of deceptive recruitment in the quarter-century history of the Hare Krishna movement in America, and I'd issue a public apology to CAN and end my involvement with the Religious Freedom Project. If they could not do so, as the challenge went, they would issue a public apology to the Hare Krishna movement and discontinue their illegal and unconstitutional activities against them., I don't know. I thought the challenge was quite reasonable. If the Hare Krishna's are a cult, and CAN is in the business of exposing these cults, they'd gladly tell people HOW and WHY they determined that. But, as I suspected from the start, they declined the challenge. You be the judge. Questions/Comments? Religious Freedom Project Janardana Dasa, Director 1744 West Devon, No. 86 Chicago, IL 60660 (312) 508-0595 Or leave message here. --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-7729 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 15 FNET Conference From: JANARDANA DASA Sent: 06-25-90 14:56 To: ALL Rcvd: 08-29-90 22:18 Re: CAN ATTACK ON NARCANON DATELINE: Chilocco, Oklahoma, 06-25-90 Religious Freedom Project On-Line HEADLINE: Cult Awareness Network Blasts Anti-Drug Group ======================================================= Chilocco, Oklahoma, site of a one of the country's largets new drug rehabilitation centers, is coming under attack by a group calling itself "Cult Awareness Network". Under the guise of an educational, non-profit organization, Cult Awareness Network, or CAN as it likes to be called, is known for its vehement support and activities related to deprogramming, the process of kidnapping and, through mental and physical coersion, forcing persons to give up their sincerely held religious beliefs... So why is CAN going to Oklahoma to attack a drug rehabilitation center? We asked a representative from the Anti- drug group, called Narcanon.. "CAN is attacking us because we're founded by the Church of Scientology, even though our program has nothing to do with Scientology... CAN just cannot stand the fact that the Church is succeeding in getting people off drugs". It has been learned by Narcanon that CAN is sending their President, Mike Rokos, to Enid, Oklahoma, where he will meet with the CAN contact there (the Cook Family), to personally arrange for the strategy to ruin the grand opening event for the Narcanon facility on Thursday, June 28th, 1990. The grand opening event is currently attracting many VIP guests from around the world who work and study within the drug rehabilitation world. Says our Narcanon contact: "We certainly hope CAN can use restraint and keep their hate-philosophy and bigotry out of the Anti-drug campaigns... we have a very successful program in getting people off drugs... but since it seems they are indeed going to come to attempt to ruin the program here, it wil; be used against them to get their tax-exempt status stripped.." CAN has been fueding with Scientology, and other groups it deems as not "real religion" for the past 15 years. CAN members have been indicted and convicted across the country for criminal activities in relation to their anti-religious campaign. RFPFile:COS.900625 --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-7729 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 17 FNET Conference From: SARVOPAMA DASA Sent: 07-01-90 05:47 To: JANARDANA DASA Rcvd: 07-27-90 13:22 Re: (R)CAN ATTACK ON NARCANON > facility on Thursday, June 28th, 1990. > The grand opening event is currently attracting many VIP > guests from around the world who work and study within the drug > rehabilitation world. > Says our Narcanon contact: "We certainly hope CAN can use > restraint and keep their hate-philosophy and bigotry out of the > Anti-drug campaigns... we have a very successful program in > getting people off drugs... but since it seems they are indeed > going to come to attempt to ruin the program here, it wil; be used > against them to get their tax-exempt status stripped.." > CAN has been fueding with Scientology, and other groups it > deems as not "real religion" for the past 15 years. CAN members > have been indicted and convicted across the country for criminal > activities in relation to their anti-religious campaign. So, hey, I give a hoot and a hollar... What's with Barbara Mandrell and John Travolta? What happened on the 28th? Come on- fill us in on all this stuff. Did the Cook family come storming down out of the hills with rifles blazing? Did the Scientologists prevail? Did the meeting convene? What the heck happened? --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-7729 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 18 FNET Conference From: JANARDANA DASA Sent: 07-03-90 11:53 To: SARVOPAMA DASA Rcvd: 08-18-90 16:43 Re: (R)CAN ATTACK ON NARCANON > So, hey, I give a hoot and a hollar... What's with Barbara Mandrell > and John Travolta? What happened on the 28th? Come on- fill us in on > all this stuff. Did the Cook family come storming down out of the > hills with rifles blazing? Did the Scientologists prevail? Did the > meeting convene? What the heck happened? Haribol! Did the Scientologists prevail? I'ma gonna told you a story... I spent one of the most rewarding and educational weekends I ever spent in this lifetime. Seriously. I don't know where to begin, or how to explain just how special this program at Chilocco NARCONON was... Imagine a few thousand people from around the world, Sweden, France, New Zealand, Spain, UK, Ireland, Italy, Germany, Belgium, Denmark, (it goes on and on), all converging on one spot in the middle of desolute Oklahoma, on an ancient Indian holy ground... Imagine everyone there filled with spiritual energy, loving every minute of the day, happy to see every other person there, laughing, crying, smiling, enjoying... Imagine even stodgy folks like United Nations representatives, big businessmen, Pentacostal, Methodist, Catholic, (etc.) leaders, all enjoying, all exhibiting this high energy, despite temperatures averaging 104 degrees in this dry, desert-like region... Imaginethe leaders of all the major Indian nations and tribes, Comanche, Ponca, Apache, etc., all meeting there in one spot to convene the first ever combined Indian Nations Council of War since General Custer was handled... Imagine music and concerts around the clock, Barbara Mandrell, Nicky Hopkins (the 6th Beattle), Maxine Nightengale, David Pomeranz, and personalities like John Travolta and Kristie Alley, and footbal hero Joe Theissman, among thousands, there for the same spiritual energy, the same goals... Probably sounds like one of the famous New Age Namby-pamby Airy Fairy whoodoo-gooroo gatherings, eh? All is one, we are god, etc? Nothing of the sort, this was a war council on drugs... as cold, clinical and hateful most drug programs can seem, this place convened the largest gathering of persons dedicated to winning the drug war ever.. and as a new note to the drug crisis, this group laid the blame right where it belongs, on the government and psychiatry, who make all this possible... Ther weekend was sponsored by the Chilocco Indian tribes (a five tribe council), and Narconon, the drug rehabilitation system established by L. Ron Hubbard.. I was there because CAN, the Cult Awareness Network, actually had hopes of disrupting the festival... these creeps would rather see people on drugs in the major cities, gutter-hyped, dying, than to see Scientology do something successful. Talk about envy! Man, I had the most wonderful time! I hung out with Heber Jentzsche, the successor to L. Ron Hubbard, who is an amazing and profound individual... he knows an awful lot about Krishna consciousness, likes it, and we spent a good long time comparing the similarities between Scientology and Bhagavat-dharma... in summary, there are no fundamental points where SCI and HKM could not agree, even with respect to the authority of the Vedas.. I presented him with my small altar and the Gita, and ... well, running outta space.. I really am having a hard time trying to tell people just how heavy and wonderful this experience was... Hare Krishna! --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-7729 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 19 FNET Conference From: SARVOPAMA DASA Sent: 07-03-90 13:05 To: JANARDANA DASA Rcvd: 07-27-90 13:22 Re: (R)CAN ATTACK ON NARCANON > I was there because CAN, the Cult Awareness Network, actually > had hopes of disrupting the festival... these creeps would > heavy and wonderful this experience was... Hare Krishna! So did any CAN crumbs show their faces? Sounds like they really would have had their hands full had they tried. --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-7729 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 21 FNET Conference From: SARVOPAMA DASA Sent: 07-08-90 11:34 To: JANARDAN DASA Rcvd: -NO- Re: PHILLIPS Tried to get you on the phone but with no luck so here goes... We lend credibility to Phillip's side of the argument by not letting him bring in a class.. Randy said when pressed on the point that the violence that Phillips claimed was inevitable when anyone becomes involved wiht a cult is not so much on the physical as the mental level.. So if we take that seriously we tend to support the whole notion of mind control.. Beyond that, if we deny entry to someone who isn't actually drunk or violent or smelly... We indicate that we're afraid of them for the same reasons- their ability to use mind control.. Ultimately that's what yoga is all about.. The point is we want to control our minds and senses for the pleasure of Krishna.. --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-7729 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 23 FNET Conference From: MATTHEW KOWALSKI Sent: 07-12-90 22:52 To: JANARDANA DASA Rcvd: 07-27-90 13:22 Re: I'M HERE.... I just logged on here for the first time. Am pleased to see all the discussion. Looks good. --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-7729 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 24 FNET Conference From: JANARDANA DASA Sent: 07-13-90 10:22 To: ALL Rcvd: 08-29-90 22:18 Re: RESIGNATION... Dear Friends of Religious Freedom, As of today, 13 July 90, I am no longer the director of the Religious Freedom Project. I have certainly enjoyed working with the various participants of the project in the past, and have particularly enjoyed the many triumphs gained over the Anti-religion networks... The reasons for this resignation are as follows, in the order of priority: 1) I have been spending much too much time on Religious Freedom Project activities and neglecting my own religious duties and activities... Sort of misses the mark there. 2) I will not be responsible for letters distributed in my name, or implying my support, that I haven't seen or approved of, only to be told of them later... (I am not a rubber-stamp). 3) Since taking on RFP tasks and projects I have only experienced loss. Loss of jobs, loss of family support, etc., and there have been no gains. (All give, no take). 4) Frankly, to fight against the Anti-Religion Network is a dirty business. My philosophy has always been to particularly not dwell upon the negative, but work within what's positive. The Anti-Religion Network, (CAN, AFF, etc.), is full of sleazy-slimy dirt-bags, and perhaps I'm getting contaminated as a result of dwelling upon their sleaziness... Stay tuned for the announcement as to the new director of the Religious Freedom Project. I will still contribute to this Conference regularly. Thank you. --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-7729 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 25 FNET Conference From: JANARDANA DASA Sent: 07-17-90 11:31 To: MATTHEW KOWALSKI Rcvd: 07-24-90 22:16 Re: (R)I'M HERE.... > I just logged on here for the first time. Am pleased to see all the > discussion. Looks good. > Wonderful! Glad to see you made it. Incidentally, as of yesterday this FNET conference is being sent out to Tocoma, Washington, and perhaps others between here and there will pick up on it. We invite everyone to contribute. This is that one conference where all the various religious groups can come together with something in common, the threat to their very existence! _ _ Janardana Dasa --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-7729 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 26 FNET Conference From: JANARDANA DASA Sent: 07-22-90 01:46 To: ERIC PEMENT Rcvd: 08-25-90 23:13 Re: REPLY Eric, Received your note on the Computers for Christ BBS and figured I'd have a better chance getting it to you here on HKBBS than anywhere else since I know nothing of UNIX systems. I'll try to answer your questions as fully as possible. > If you don't mind a few personal questions, please let me > know more about yourself. > (1) Are you still a Krsna devotee? If so, to which group > or association of Krsna devotees do you most nearly identify > with? Yes, I consider myself a devotee, although I am not associated directly with ISKCON anymore. I'm not sure what you mean by "to which group or association of Krishna devotees...", but if you refer to the West Virginia group following Bhaktipada, you should know that they no longer count themselves Hare Krishna devotees, but have converted to a quasi-Christian-neo-Catholic-New-Age something or another. The have broken their connections with Srila Prabhupada's movement. I am participating in a new Krishna program coming to Chicago that is designed to bring back the many who have become disaffected or expelled for lack of faith in the leadership of ISKCON. (stay tuned!) > (2) Is the Religious Freedom Project simply an "interfaith" > association of people who reject deprogramming? What groups > fund the RFP currently? The Religious Freedom Project was designed to be pretty much what you describe, although more than just an association, it was designed to actively counter the propaganda of the Cult Awareness Network and other groups engaging in illegal deprogramming activities. I have since resigned as Director of the Project for personal reasons (the resignation letter can be found if you J)oin the FNET Conference on line here and read messages to ALL, 07-13-90) CONTINUED -------------> --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-7729 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 27 FNET Conference From: JANARDANA DASA Sent: 07-22-90 01:48 To: ERIC PEMENT Rcvd: 08-25-90 23:13 Re: REPLY > (3) Do you think that such a think as "cults" or > "destructive cults" exist today? If so, what specific groups > would you name as being representative of this category? Do cults exist? Certainly. Do destructive cults exist? I don't think that can be established as provable. By destructive cult, the Cult Awareness Network describes "deceptive recruitment" as the primary attribute. Then they list the Hare Krishna movement as one of the chief destructive cults. You tell me, how on earth can a person be deceived into shaving their heads (keeping a small pony-tail), wearing saffron robes, marking their foreheads, chanting and dancing? Is there anyone so mindless that he wouldn't know what he was getting into? A person joining the Krishna movement has to wait at least six months, studying and examining, before he can be considered a candidate for initiation. It's a lot of work becoming a devotee, it's not as if someone can be tricked. "Oh! I thought I was joining the Peace Corps!" Through my work with the Religious Freedom Project, I have come into contact with many representatives of the various CAN target groups, and I saw absolutely nothing "destructive" in their nature. They weren't mindless, they were simply practicing their sincerely held religious beliefs, and you or I or CAN or anyone else has ZERO rights to take those beliefs away. If the religious group they believe in is bogus, well, that's too bad. We are all entitled to our own mistakes in life. If we feel we have the right to "correct" a persons philosophy, where do we draw the line? That kind of sentiment is dangerous and has many lessons historically. > (4) Did that anti-cult BBS you mentioned in area code 815 > ever get off the ground? Or was that an idea you had going > while you were still in your anti-cult phase? If the BBS you > mentioned in your _first_ message to me on the Hare Krishna BBS > is up and running, please give me its phone number, even if > you disagree with its present philosophy. While I was with the Cult Awareness folks, we did indeed establish a BBS, called ICIX BBS. We set up a Spitfire Board, and began a full scale program of getting files on-line about every "cult" imaginable, including JPUSA, Willow Creek Community, Vinyard Christian Fellowship, Jews for Jesus, and other Christian groups (as well as the standard "BIG-5", Scientology, Hare Krishna Movement, Unification Church, The Way International, and Church Universal & Triumphant). I can give you the number, but warn you of two things: 1) Mary Krone, the SysOP, lists you as one of the so-called "cult-dogs", particularly dangerous because you educate people about cults. >--------------------CONTINUED-----------------------> --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-7729 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 28 FNET Conference From: JANARDANA DASA Sent: 07-22-90 01:51 To: ERIC PEMENT Rcvd: 08-25-90 23:13 Re: REPLY <--------------------PART 3--------------------------< You have been described as a very serious threat to Cult Awareness. 2) The ICIX BBS has 9 public conferences and file sections, and 9 PRIVATE/HIDDEN ones. Guess where you'd find the cult-related files? In the Hidden ones. I have no access, even though I set up the whole system and was SysOp. Access is given only to those who tote the party-line. They do have a few bulletins on Cults, but they are fearful of law suits if they make all the files public. Logging on as Eric Pement will infuriate her. (Apparently you spoke at her Church once years back, and she has a special place in hell reserved for you ) > (5) Has the Cult Awareness Network as an organization ever successfully been found guilty of unlawful restraint kidnapping/depriving someone of their civil rights/etc.? I'm speaking of the CAN as an organization, not of various CAN members who may have been so convicted. In fact, I would like to know if you have a file of any and all litigation (civil or criminal) which is directly related to the Cult Awareness Network. Now this is the loaded type of question that can get us nowhere. No, CAN has not been directly indicted. How can a prosecutor hope to win a case against a deprogrammer if he has to prove the entire organization is guilty? Aside from my own knowledge, however there is TONS of documentation to the effect that CAN National promotes, arranges and solicits deprogramming. I myself was a deprogrammer, solicited BY CAN to help kidnap a Hare Krishna devotee and deprogram him. CAN actually denies promoting deprogramming, claiming they have nothing to do with deprogrammers, yet EVERY deprogrammer knows they cannot remain in business without the referrals from Cynthia Kisser, Carol Giambalvo, and the various local CAN presidents. It's impossible. They even set the price in many cases. > Thanks for your help. I may visit the HKBBS once again to see how it's changed in my absence. (It was pretty lonely, being the only evangelical Christian on the board!) Take care. Eric Pement Any time. Although I am no longer associated with the Religious Freedom Project, I am the moderator of the FNET Conference here on-line. We certainly welcome any input from you. Hare Krishna _ _ Janardana Dasa (the number for the CAN bbs is 1-815-459-0825.... have at it!) --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-7729 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 30 FNET Conference From: JANARDANA DASA Sent: 08-10-90 22:27 To: ALL Rcvd: 09-04-90 02:19 Re: ANNOUNCING..... Dear Friends of Religious Freedom: Beginning next month, Johnathon Nordquist (that's me), in conjunction with the Hare Krishna movement, the Church of Scientology, and various other church organizations from across the country, is innagurating a new program designed to prevent Cult Awareness Network attacks against religion in America. Beginning in September, Nordquist will begin a nationwide tour offering seminars to churches as to how they can protect themselves from CAN's attacks, centering primarily upon the role of young, new converts in handling their responsibilities toward family and not using the church as a vehicle to further their personal rebellion against parents. It has been the case many times over that young kids who join various non-traditional religious organizations, will immediately cut ties to their parents, on the one hand telling the church that the parents are against their conversion, while on the other hand telling the parents that the church commands such a seperation, thus using the church to aid in their rebellion. Many churches, including my own, the Hare Krishna movement, have never addressed this issue properly, and in the case of ISKCON, it has resulted in lengthy legal battles, and has consumed tens of thousands of dollars in PR and legal expenses. Our program will be to educate both the church leaders and the newer members to "handle" their family matters to the satisfaction of all concerned before taking radical measures. It is important to keep the comm lines open between children and parents, even if strained, thereby minimizing the effects of anti-religous instigators like CAN who prey of the distraut parents of young new converts to virtually any religious tradition. At any rate, keep updated on the progress of the tour! Log on regularly to the FNET conference. Any advice, suggestions? Please post, or call as the FNET Contact person: MaryAnne Ahmed Church of Scientology (312) 348-7788 Chicago - voice line --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-7729 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 31 FNET Conference From: JANARDANA DASA Sent: 08-10-90 22:28 To: SARVOPAMA DASA Rcvd: 08-18-90 16:43 Re: ANNOUNCING..... Dear Friends of Religious Freedom: Beginning next month, Johnathon Nordquist (that's me), in conjunction with the Hare Krishna movement, the Church of Scientology, and various other church organizations from across the country, is innagurating a new program designed to prevent Cult Awareness Network attacks against religion in America. Beginning in September, Nordquist will begin a nationwide tour offering seminars to churches as to how they can protect themselves from CAN's attacks, centering primarily upon the role of young, new converts in handling their responsibilities toward family and not using the church as a vehicle to further their personal rebellion against parents. It has been the case many times over that young kids who join various non-traditional religious organizations, will immediately cut ties to their parents, on the one hand telling the church that the parents are against their conversion, while on the other hand telling the parents that the church commands such a seperation, thus using the church to aid in their rebellion. Many churches, including my own, the Hare Krishna movement, have never addressed this issue properly, and in the case of ISKCON, it has resulted in lengthy legal battles, and has consumed tens of thousands of dollars in PR and legal expenses. Our program will be to educate both the church leaders and the newer members to "handle" their family matters to the satisfaction of all concerned before taking radical measures. It is important to keep the comm lines open between children and parents, even if strained, thereby minimizing the effects of anti-religous instigators like CAN who prey of the distraut parents of young new converts to virtually any religious tradition. At any rate, keep updated on the progress of the tour! Log on regularly to the FNET conference. Any advice, suggestions? Please post, or call as the FNET Contact person: MaryAnne Ahmed Church of Scientology (312) 348-7788 Chicago - voice line --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-7729 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 32 FNET Conference From: SARVOPAMA DASA Sent: 08-11-90 18:43 To: JANARDANA DASA Rcvd: 08-16-90 21:17 Re: (R)ANNOUNCING..... Sounds good to me. Since I usually only deal with schools and teachers when they invite me to speak or attend a press conference with the ambassador from India and the Consul General like yesterday, I guess I tend to be a little out of touch with some of the more covert or clandestine operations going on around and about. --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-6116 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 33 FNET Conference From: JANARDANA DASA Sent: 08-11-90 19:05 To: SARVOPAMA DASA Rcvd: 08-18-90 16:43 Re: (R)ANNOUNCING..... > Sounds good to me. Since I usually only deal with schools and > teachers when they invite me to speak or attend a press conference > with the ambassador from India and the Consul General like yesterday, > I guess I tend to be a little out of touch with some of the more > covert or clandestine operations going on around and about. On the parental end, it becomes clandistine and covert, as you say, but only after the intensive propagandizing and instigation of groups like Cult Awareness Network. Actually, the parental distress of having their child go into a non-traditional, or different religious persuasion than their upbringing, is normal and inevitable. Parents, especially mothers, oftentimes get hysterical over their soms and daughters going off to college, getting married, joining the army, this is normal reaction and to be expected. CAN, meanwhile, preys upon these emotions and turns the confusion, sorrow and distress into a diabolical channel of hatred, paranoia and fear by concocting parallels to these groups and Jonestown. It's a very severe and powerful chemistry there, which is why CAN is so destructive to our very basic right to freedom of worship. I don't know why I personally keep wandering back into the CAN busting business. I guess it is my obligation for my involvement with them in the past, but from the comfortable position of an educated devotee of Lord Krsna, like yourself, it is sometimes hard to feel the gravity of the situation these young new converts face with hostile, CAN manipulated parents. Try talking to some of them, the kids, and see what they feel. It would make an interesting study actually. --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-6116 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 34 FNET Conference From: JANARDANA DASA Sent: 08-16-90 21:17 To: SARVOPAMA DASA Rcvd: 08-28-90 18:29 Re: (R)ANNOUNCING..... > Sounds good to me. Since I usually only deal with schools and > teachers when they invite me to speak or attend a press conference > with the ambassador from India and the Consul General like yesterday, > I guess I tend to be a little out of touch with some of the more > covert or clandestine operations going on around and about. > .....and furthermore: I just got finished with a report on the matter of CAN influencing parents which is addressed to His Holiness Mukunda Goswami Maharaja, and although I don't have it in disk form (handwritten), you might be interested in the findings since we discussed these matters previously. The program we are initiating, a joint ISKCON/Scientology venture, is to carry out a program of educating each temple, church or other religious organization as to the real threat CAN poses to their respective churches. The program will be outlined as follows (although this is a very ROUGH draft, not yet ratified by all parties): IDENTIFY the various CAN members active in each church org's local area. IDENTIFY the various press agents sympathetic with CAN and target them with corrective literature, letters or visits, explaining in graphic detail what CAN and deprogramming is all about, using detailled accounts from CAN victims, legal court case transcripts, and the like (all supplied by Religious Freedom Project) IDENTIFY the various conditions within our own churches and temples that may have given rise to the accusations and attacks from CAN and correct them, if applicable. As an example of this program, I cited to His Holiness my account of that girl who hangs out at the temple now, not more than 16 years old, smart, attractive, (with a germanic accent). This girl has only been exposed to Krsna consciousness for a very short time, yet in my conversations with her I learn that she wears tilak at home, wears a Sari at home, chants at the dinner table, and calls her mother a dog-eater to her face. Okay. Sounds good, eh? Well the result was that the mother tried to physically pull her out of the Sunday program a couple of Sundays ago. Mitrasena Prabhu and I discussed it, and I guess he is going to have her mellow out a bit and treat her parents delicately and tactfully. Imagine though the results IF her parents were co ntacted by CAN and the girl continued to misuse her gift of Krsna consciousness to further her rebellion against her parents. Another Robin George fiasco. You may consider my program and service to be of little or no value, but I can assure you, when this program gets going full swing, you'll notice a marked difference in ISKCON's PR standing. Each temple president will be alert to the conditions that create BAD PR with parents, and the situation will be corrected. As for my service to the temple, how can I when attituded like yours prevail? You go hang out with the ambassadors (drunkard, from what I'm told), and I'll work on handling the parents of new converts, not just to ISKCON, but to ALL religious organizations. I feel this may be considered by Lord Krsna as service to Him, and my spiritual master likewise. Thank you. Hare Krsna _ _ Janardana Dasa --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-6116 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 35 FNET Conference From: SARVOPAMA DASA Sent: 08-17-90 07:33 To: JANARDANA DASA Rcvd: 08-20-90 20:12 Re: (R)ANNOUNCING..... > You may consider my program and service to be of little or no > value, but I can assure you, when this program gets going full I never said that and I certainly don't think it....**** ^^^^^ ^^^^^ I only always try to encourage anyone and everyone to take as much advantage of Prabhupada's program as possible and in that way give up more and more of the material problems I here them complaining about. The bread problem. This problem, that problem, the other problem. If you have chosen a particular way to serve the mission of Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and I'm somehow thwarting your efforts, then please tell me how and I'll immediately retrace all my steps and fall flat on my face at your feet begging your forgiveness. --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-6116 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 36 FNET Conference From: JANARDANA DASA Sent: 08-18-90 17:24 To: SARVOPAMA DASA Rcvd: 08-28-90 18:29 Re: (R)ANNOUNCING..... >> You may consider my program and service to be of little or no >> value, but I can assure you, when this program gets going full > > I never said that and I certainly don't think it....**** > ^^^^^ ^^^^^ > I only always try to encourage anyone and everyone to take as much > advantage of Prabhupada's program as possible and in that way give up > more and more of the material problems I here them complaining about. > > The bread problem. This problem, that problem, the other problem. If > you have chosen a particular way to serve the mission of Shri > Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and I'm somehow thwarting your efforts, then > please tell me how and I'll immediately retrace all my steps and fall > flat on my face at your feet begging your forgiveness. > > --- RBBSMail 17.3A > * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-6116 (RBBS > 1:115/800.0) Well, everyone will serve up to their own propensities, I suppose. It's not that I am "chicken-sh*t" for not taking direct temple service. I explained my position there to you many times over. I think I recall that Prabhupada never made real demands on those not living in his temples, but rather was happy with whatever they would offer as devotional service. To call me chicken-sh*t for my approach is really quite chicken-sh*t in itself. To call V. Dasa's program the same is ludicrous, when you consider that outside of IWR he has the only nationwide preaching program, and no one can deny that his preaching is first rate. Oh well, enough of this. It's chicken-sh*t, to say the least. Perhaps you'll make it to the program tonite to accept the OSA award for ISKCON? I look forward to you'r firey speach (even though they'll cut you off after about two minutes, I think. Hare Krsna. --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-6116 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 37 FNET Conference From: SARVOPAMA DASA Sent: 08-23-90 13:47 To: JANARDANA DASA Rcvd: 08-23-90 19:03 Re: (R)ANNOUNCING..... Oh, Oh, did I use a baaaad word? --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-6116 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 38 FNET Conference From: JANARDANA DASA Sent: 08-23-90 19:03 To: SARVOPAMA DASA Rcvd: 09-02-90 05:23 Re: (R)ANNOUNCING..... > Oh, Oh, did I use a baaaad word? You should know that FNET is not a private conference, but is sent out to a few places now. It would be better to leave off-topic messages in the Main Mailbox so that folks don't get the idea this is something it isn't. Haribol. --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Hare Krishna Electronic BBS Chicago 312/743-6116 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 39 FNET Conference From: SARVOPAMA DASA Sent: 08-28-90 18:35 To: JANARDAN DASA Rcvd: -NO- Re: KIDNAPPING Bhaktin Anna almost got kidnapped yesterday. They pulled a knife on her and got her all the way downtown before she escaped into the Woolworth's store on State St. Maybe if she gave you a description, you might be able to help. They were pretty organized with walkie talkies and a set plan with a car waiting somewhere and everything. If Anna hadn't managed to struggle free while the guy holding her was tapping his malfunctioning radio, there's no telling where she might be now. --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Krishna Yoga Foundation BBS Chicago 312/743-6116 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 40 FNET Conference From: JANARDANA DASA Sent: 09-01-90 01:08 To: SARVOPAMA DASA Rcvd: 09-02-90 05:49 Re: (R)KIDNAPPING > Bhaktin Anna almost got kidnapped yesterday. They pulled a knife on > her and got her all the way downtown before she escaped into the > Woolworth's store on State St. Maybe if she gave you a description, > you might be able to help. They were pretty organized with walkie > talkies and a set plan with a car waiting somewhere and everything. > If Anna hadn't managed to struggle free while the guy holding her was > tapping his malfunctioning radio, there's no telling where she might > be now. > Please, as soon as possible, have Bhaktin Anna call me. We're preparing a mug-shot book of all known deprogrammers down at "Lincoln Avenue" office. While it's still fresh, I'd like to ask her a series of questions. Personally, I think it would pay off and be safe to "bait" the deprogrammers. I can be reached at home anytime before 2pm daily, or at work AFTER 8:00pm M-F (Chicago Copy, inc., 812 Van Buren Street). I guess that message from "Elton" WAS you, eh? Hare Krsna ^^^ --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Krishna Yoga Foundation BBS Chicago 312/743-6116 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 41 FNET Conference From: JANARDANA DASA Sent: 09-03-90 16:01 To: ALL Rcvd: 09-07-90 04:01 Re: RELIGIOUS FREEDOM PROJ. In recent weeks, there has been alot of increased CAN/deprogramming activities directed against devotees of Krishna. Anyone with information where deprogramming is concerned with other groups are encouraged to contact me at (312) 508-0595, or here on-line, or you can contact the Religious Freedom Project coordinator, MaryAnn Ahmed, at (312) 348-7788 after 4:30pm Chicago time daily (at the Church of Scientology). Thank you and Hare Krishna. --- RBBSMail 17.3A * Origin: Krishna Yoga Foundation BBS Chicago 312/743-6116 (RBBS 1:115/800.0) Msg #: 42 FNET Conference From: RICH LANGSFORD Sent: 09-06-90 00:49 To: JANARDANA DASA Rcvd: -NO- Re: (R)RELIGIOUS FREEDOM PROJ JD> In recent weeks, there has been alot of increased CAN/deprogramming JD> activities directed against devotees of Krishna. Anyone with JD> information where deprogramming is concerned with other groups are JD> encouraged to contact me at (312) 508-0595, or here on-line, or you ca Seems like Vaish mentioned at one time that certain FidoNet-style echos were frequented by such folks. If you know of any that I might be able to request but that you cannot get in your region or because of your affiliations, I'd be happy to request same and pass them on to you. These people undermine the religious freedom America was founded upon. I don't like it. --- D'Bridge 1.30/001115 * Origin: AmoCat BBS * Tacoma Washington * (206)566-1155 (1:138/115)

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