AP_13.TXT FILE 13 of 15 - CompuServe Astral Projection Class by Don DeGracia, 1994 Astral

---
Master Index Current Directory Index Go to SkepticTank Go to Human Rights activist Keith Henson Go to Scientology cult

Skeptic Tank!

AP_13.TXT ------------------------------------------------------------------- FILE 13 of 15 - CompuServe Astral Projection Class by Don DeGracia, 1994 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Astral Projection Class on CompuServe by Don DeGracia: 72662,1335 Copyright 1994 None of this material may be reproduced without explicit permission from the author. IN THE OOBE REALM - PART 7 B. Meeting People (continued from FILE 12) 5> (Apparently, sometimes we astral projectors must look like ghosts to the people we meet in the planes. This is a cute episode where *I* ended up scaring instead of being scared!) "...At first the darkness was very "electric." Eventually the void seemed like a heavy fog. I got the idea to try to look at my hands. Watched my body and a red tile floor materialize around me as the fogginess of the void faded away. I was in an empty room with a red tile floor, it seemed like a small gymnasium or something. I started walking and noticed that my footsteps were very noisy. There were two open doors. One led out to a hallway, the other led to a storage closet. There was a light on in the storage closet and I heard someone moving and stacking chairs.. I approached the lit closet nervously and a little scared, not knowing what to expect. There was another entrance to the storage closet out in the main hallway, and as I walked by I saw a pile of chairs go crashing out into the hall. Then I heard grumbling and complaining come from the storage closet. I became a little amused and hovered out near the door to peek into the storage closet and see who was in there. Then, a guy dressed like a janitor walked out of the storage closet. He looked up and saw me floating there and I obviously startled him because he gasped at me. The whole situation was becoming very amusing to me so I flew down closer towards him. He ran scared back into the storage closet. I hovered for a second outside the door to the closet and the janitor reappeared, this time carrying a large garbage can, which he then proceeded to throw at me. He missed me and the garbage can struck the wall next to me, but I was surprised nonetheless. He ran back into the storage closet and I flew up towards a vent by the ceiling. I pulled the vent open and tried to climb into it, but I lost my lockmold and was back in my physbod." 6> (Here's one time when John and I, who shared a room at college were both sleeping. I projected and saw him sleeping on his bed and I tried to wake him while I was out-of-body.) "...Having some kind of dream. Had a false awakening, except I figured I was either awake, or maybe I could project. Tried to push out of my body. I was gyrating wildly. I flopped out sideways, like a fish, onto the floor next to my bed. I was in my bedroom. Stood up and went over to where J.C.'s bed was (he was sleeping there for real on the physical plane). I nudged him, "John, wake up." He rolled over, half awake, looking up at me. "John, it's me," I said, "Can you see me?" He said, still half asleep, "Ya, I know it's you." He didn't seemed too thrilled. "Can you see me? I'm projecting right now. I'm in my astral body." He said, "You look like a haze." I asked him, "Can you see my physical body lying on my bed?" He said he couldn't. But it was dark in the room and I figured he couldn't see my physbod in my bed because there was no light. So I stood up and told him to watch me. And I shot up through the ceiling. I felt myself pass outside, but at the same time I completely lost my lock-mold..." 7> (The following is an interesting episode. I met a stranger, a woman, and I think she may have been a deceased person. This, I feel, is an example of consoling a person.) "...Felt myself laying on my bed again. I didn't make any attempt to "push out" though, I just started flying forward through the void. Almost instantly, a scene materialized around me. It seemed to be dusk, and I was standing on the front lawn of a house overlooking an unfamiliar neighborhood. It reminded me somewhat of the older and bigger houses in Detroit. There were a few people walking about on the sidewalks. I noticed a woman coming up the sidewalk that passed in front of where I was at. Without really thinking, I ran across the lawn, jumped the row of bushes separating the lawn from the sidewalk, and stood there on the sidewalk waiting for this woman to approach. She was an older woman with graying blond hair, wearing a long brown coat. She was acting scared as if she wanted to avoid me. She was only a few feet from me and I asked her, "What's your name?" She stopped, but turned away from me and said, "I don't look at faces." I could sense her fear and caution and I said, "Don't worry, I know how people are up here." Then she turned back towards me, brightened up with interest and said, "You do?" I was glad to have gotten her attention. But then I noticed as I was staring at her face, that her features kept shifting from that of an old lady to that of a beautiful young woman. Looking into her eyes I said, "You're very beautiful." She giggled embarrassed. I didn't know if I should make a sexual move on her or not. I decided against it cause it was obvious that she had been afraid, but now I had her confidence. I realized that she seemed scared and lonely and I figured she simply needed to be consoled. I hugged her and we began walking off. Then I faded out..." 8> (This is one of the most interesting times I've met someone I knew during an OOBE. The fellow I meet, Eric, was a good friend I jammed with in a band. He had left school, but I was still at school. I met Eric while I was projecting. It seems very reasonable to conclude that where I ended up going in my projection was where Eric happened to go that night in his dreams. I tried to get him to call me. Notice how little lucidity he has. Also, note how I am "sly" in interacting with Eric.) "...Had been up all night studying for an exam and gabbing with John. Went to bed about 5:00 AM. I fell asleep almost immediately. Next thing I knew I was walking thru a dance club, very reminiscent of the Detroit dance club scene. The place was large and dark, and there was a huge dance floor filled with very underground looking people. I was not lucid at this point, but I had a very strong feeling that something was up. I walked off of the dance floor into another room that was a bar. Sitting at the bar was my good friend Eric, with whom I had jammed in a band. When I saw Eric it dawned on me - I was in the dream world! And also, at this realization, I most definitely experienced the "headrush" feeling. My lucidity was incredible. Everything was absolutely clear and vivid. I felt exactly like I do when I'm awake. Once my lucidity clicked in though, I became very aware of my potential to fade out so I moved very slowly and carefully. I approached Eric, vividly aware that we were in the dream plane. I decided not to say anything to him about this fact at first. I wanted to experiment and play with the situation. I approached him exactly as I would have done if I really had unexpectedly run into him in a club on the physical plane. I casually walked up to the bar and nudged him. "Eric, what's up?" I said, extending my hand in greeting. He turned and recognized me and showed the typical surprise one would show when seeing a friend one hasn't seen for a while. We hadn't seen each other for over a year. "Don!, How are you?" We were shaking hands. Eric had a drink in his hand and he was acting as if he was slightly drunk, which I found quite novel knowing that we were in the dream world and one's dream body simply cannot get drunk! We gabbed about what we had each been doing since we last saw each other. Eric told me that he was working at a radio station (which was true, and I knew this anyway). I told him I was still in school working towards graduation. I kept up this small talk, but I was trying to figure out what I should do next. Finally, right in the middle of our small talk, I looked at Eric and very casually, but seriously said, "By the way, Eric, we're dreaming right now." He looked at me and started laughing as if I was joking. I responded, "Look, Eric, I'm totally serious. I'm in Houghton right now, and my body is sleeping in my bed. You and I are on the astral plane right now." Eric said something about me always having been a great kidder. There was a young woman sitting next to Eric at the bar and she was listening to us. She looked at me very snidely in response to what I was saying. I looked at her and said, "Look, woman, We're dreaming right now. Just wake yourself up, then you'll believe me." Then I made some nasty remark to her about the fact that she was just another typically stupid dreamer. Meanwhile, Eric was watching this getting a big kick out of it. Then I felt myself begin to fade out. I grabbed Eric and said, "Uh oh! Look, Eric! I'm gonna disappear right before your eyes, then you'll know that this is a dream!" And I was gone. {At this point read, FILE 10 , entry 3 under "iv. The Surreal Regions"} ...This time I tightened my focus so much that the entire bar scene faded in around me! I was back in the bar again! My lockmold was again very strong, but again, I moved slowly and cautiously so as not to get too excited and fade out. I wondered if Eric was still here. I walked off the dance floor, through a neon lit hallway, back into the bar where I had seen Eric. And no shit - there he was in the same room! I was extremely lucid and I really had to fight to keep myself calm because I knew I would fade if I got too excited. This time Eric was standing next to the wall and he seemed much drunker than before. Not only that, he was acting incredibly unlucid, just like any other ordinary dreamer. This time, I decided, I wouldn't waste time with small talk. An idea occurred to me. I went up to him, grabbed him and said, "Hey, Eric, I'm back." "Hey, Don, where'd you go?" he said smiling and slurring his speech. Just that I got this response from him was amazing because it implied an interesting memory continuity. Very seriously I said to him, "Look, Eric, we are dreaming. Didn't you see me disappear? Can't you understand? This is a dream!" His attention, however, was wavering. I didn't seem to be getting through to him. I shook him and continued, "Look, Eric, I'm in Houghton right now sleeping. I want you to wake up and call me on the telephone right now. My number is 7449. Do you understand? 7449. Wake up and call me." For an instant it seemed that he had come out of his dreamer mind and seemed to be understanding what I was saying. A glint of recognition passed over his features. I repeated my phone number and told him to wake up and call me. He said, "7447." I corrected him, but he just kept getting the phone number more and more wrong. At this point now, we were both floating about five feet off the ground, and we were in front of a long mirror up over the bar. I turned Eric towards the mirror. "Look," I said pointing into the mirror, "We're floating, Eric. You can only do stuff like this in a dream. Don't you get it? We're dreaming Eric!" Again, a definite glint of recognition passed through his eyes. For a second he seemed to understand the situation. I started shaking him violently, telling him to wake up while I was repeating my phone number to him. As we were floating, I looked over on the wall and saw a flyer posted there that said something about Ferndale. I thought, "he knows I'm from Ferndale". I pointed it out to him, but continued pleading to him to wake up and call me. But by now he was acting, not only like a typical dreamer, but like he was very drunk as well, and I gave up on him. He began to float away from me, what little lucidity he did display was completely gone. "This is futile," I thought, and I let him float away..." {I then went on, in this same projection to meet the flying minotaur which is described in FILE 11, entry 5, under "Nonhuman Denizins Of The Planes "} 9> (Sometimes you will encounter a person who appears highly lucid. The following entry is such an example. As you will see, I was surprised by this woman's lucidity and actually had a somewhat meaningful conversation with her. I think she was a dead person from the past.) "...(I had been in a surreal space, the...) I "bent" out of the crystal and was standing in a relatively large, very beautiful room. It looked Victorian in its decor. There was a butler standing there shinning shoes and staring at me. I ignored him, and looked about the room. It was very elegant. Intricately etched wood lined the contours of the wall and a large beautiful tapestry covered most of the wall next to me. A large glistening chandelier hung from the ceiling. Large windows on the opposite wall revealed a court yard outside and beyond this, a mansion-like building with stained glass windows. I was very impressed. I haven't been in such a beautiful place out here in the planes for a while. There was a smaller room cut off from the first by intricately carved wood dividers. I looked into this smaller room and saw that it was a dining room. Then I felt myself begin to fade. I quickly clung to the wooden divider and concentrated on stabilizing myself. Luckily, I restabilized myself. I went back around to where the butler was shinning shoes. He was an older man, bald on top, curly gray hair around the sides. He was wearing spectacles and a typical butler outfit. He seemed to be slightly attentive to my presence and he looked at me with a leer. On a small table next to the butler was a dish of brown pudding with little bits of chocolate in it. I went up, completely disregarding the butler, figuring he was at best half conscious anyway, and took a handful of the pudding. It tasted great! I proceeded to eat most of it. The butler seemed irritated but I continued to disregard him. Beyond him I saw a group of women sitting in front of the big windows on the opposite wall. I rudely and purposely climbed over the butler (with an attitude akin to what Monroe calls a "wild one") and approached the women. There were four women sitting there in front of the window. One was seated in the center in what looked like a throne and she appeared to be in her 30s. She had a sophisticated beauty about her. She was dressed in Victorian finery and I thought that she might be nobility. Surrounding her were three older women and they looked to be in their 50s. They looked like old maids. As I neared the window I was captured by the beauty of the building across the courtyard. As the women noticed I was approaching I spoke out: "This is some great pudding." The younger woman in the middle addressed me immediately, "Oh my," she said, "you seem to have eaten all of Ducheme's (pronounced "due shames") pudding!" She spoke with confidence and surety and I was very surprised by this. Usually the people I speak with in my projections are idiots. This woman was not. She seemed as lucid as I was. Meanwhile, the three older women eyed me with suspicion but said nothing. "That's a beautiful building over there," I said, pointing out the window across the courtyard, "What is it?" "Oh yes, it is very beautiful," she agreed, "It is our clothes palace." I was not sure what she said, "I'm sorry, I didn't understand you." It is our clothes palace," she repeated. "Wow! A whole palace just to store their wardrobe", is what I thought. I was surprised and taken aback by this woman's lucidity, the quickness and relevance of her responses. Such communication is rare for me out here. I thought that she must be a dead person still living out her astral life. I struggled for a moment trying to think how best to respond to this unique circumstance. All I figured to ask her is "What year is this?" "1890," she said. "Wow! She is dead!" I thought. There wasn't the least indication she was constructing her responses from my thoughts. Her responses were too natural for that. Besides, I would have felt it if she was pulling concepts out of my mind. Also, I asked her this question in total sincerity, with no preconceived notion of what answer I would get. "Wow!" i exclaimed, "I'm from the future. I've come from the year..." For the life of me I couldn't remember what year it was back on the physical plane! I was stymied. I struggled trying to remember. I knew it was 19 something, but what? All I could blurt out was, "the nineteen eighties." But the whole situation was making me too excited. My lockmold began fading and so did I. My vision was gone, but I heard her say, "My how interesting..." Then my hearing was gone too. I awoke back in my physbod frustrated by losing the opportunity to converse further with her, but also happy that I had encountered her. I don't think I ever had such a natural and meaningful conversation with anyone in a projection before this." 10> (Here's an example of a time I was at a "rehab center" which is one of the places that recently deceased people go. The following excerpt is from a very long projection. I was in this place for a long time. Here I am only presenting one particular meeting from this projection. I met a man who I suspect had just died (of course I have no way to confirm this, though you will see I tried to get information from him). He was in bad shape and needed help of sorts, as you will see.) "...I was in the void and I struggled immediately to fade back in. I spun round and round, and faded in again at the place I had just left. It was apparent to me by now that I must be at some tremendous rehab center, like the type Robert Monroe described in his books. I was standing outside by the entrance I had seen moments ago. Through the door I could see the bar I was just at. When I actually faded in, I found myself flopping around on the ground like a fish out of water. When I had completely materialized, I pulled myself to my feet and jumped through an open window next to the entrance doors. I found myself in a room adjacent to the bar, and I saw the bar in the next room over. This room was little, with pasty green walls and a wooden table in the middle of the room. There was a steam radiator against the wall and a wooden bench next to this, and a bum was sleeping on the bench. There were two doors; one leading back to the bar, the other, opposite this, closed. There was a hospital push cart sitting in front of the closed door and there was a guy wrapped in bandages sitting on this cart. He was staring at me and I started to say something to him. He seemed angry at me and then he lunged at me and attacked me. Needless to say, I was surprised. I said something to him to the effect, "That was the wrong move buddy, I know more about what's going on around here than you do. There ain't no way you can hurt me. And I know that you don't know I can't hurt you." Actually I wasn't in the least bit angry or mad at him cause I'm sure he had no idea what was going on. Still, I felt like being macho, and I had to do something to settle him down. I flipped him to the floor and started pounding him into the ground. I literally flattened him out like a pancake! It was like a cartoon. But when I saw that he wasn't being aggressive anymore, I stopped thrashing and helped him "pop" back out to 3-D , and helped him to his feet. He seemed surprised that neither of us was in the least bit scathed after our scuffle. His attitude was significantly different. He was more submissive and friendly. He got back on his cart and I started to push him out towards the bar. I asked him if he was dead (seeing that he was on the hospital stretcher and all). Quite to my surprise, he said he had died the night before. I asked if maybe it's that he's been dead for a year (As I write this entry I don't remember what my logic was in asking him this). He said something about getting into a fight with his Dad. I asked him where he was from and he said "the Land-O-Lakes, from Idaho." I asked for his address but he mumbled nonsense. He told me his name but I can't remember it now. His demeanor was interesting. He seemed contemplative, quite absorbed in his thoughts. He had responded more intelligently to me than anyone had to this point in the projection. I wheeled him up to another door and faded out..." 11> (Here is an example of how paradoxical it is to try to tell someone you meet that you are in the astral plane.) "...What the situation was was that, during an episode I had met an unfamiliar girl. We fell in love immediately and became lovers (and the feelings were quite sincere, I should add). I knew I was projecting, but everything was extremely real and I even felt that I did not have to go back. I felt that, if I chose, I could simply forget entirely about my physical plane life and stay right where I was at, and it wouldn't have bothered my soul in the least. I knew I could do this if I really wanted, and I was tempted by the possibility, but I ultimately decided that I would go back. At any rate, my lover and I had gone through some adventures together. We were coming out of a movie, and I felt I would have to spring the truth on her. I told her that I couldn't stay with her because I was from another plane of existence. She didn't follow me at first, so I elaborated and told her how I had a physical body and that it was sleeping back in the physical world, and that I'd soon have to go back there. She looked at me, with so much love in her eyes, and she thought I was joking with her. She said as much and gave me a hug and a kiss. I was completely lost for words and just left it at that. As it turns out, we started getting sexual shortly thereafter, and naturally, once I started getting sexually excited, I faded out. Now what was significant about this particular episode was when I was trying to explain to her that I was from the physical world. Here we are, her and I, walking arm in arm, down a sidewalk in the middle of the city. And I'm trying to tell her I'm from the physical world. But where I was standing at that moment felt just as real, if not more real than anything in my physical experience. To say that where I was standing at that moment was not real, not physical, sounded absurd even as I was trying to explain to her. I realized that it is impossible to really convey to these people in the astral world that they are not in the "physical world". To them, where they are at is completely real - to them. They don't have physical bodies to go back to. And dead people forget very quickly their physical lives. I knew I was in a realm of "dead people" - I just knew, instinctively. Dreamers act stupid - they do all the things that we, you and I, the people who dream, know we do in our dreams. Where I was at in this experience was simply life as usual. I was in some astral town where astral people (who we would call "dead people") were simply living out their astral lives, completely unaware that our physical plane exists. This was not to be the last time that I would confuse an astral person by telling them that they were not in a "physical" world." 12> (This final entry I shall present about meeting people was actually posted here on CompuServe the day after the projection occured (Dec. 14, 1992). In this projection I met someone who was aware that he was dreaming. This was a most astonding experience on my part and the first time anything like this has ever happened to me. You will notice, first, that I tried to get verifyable information from this person, and second, how difficult it was for him to concentrate.) "...The final episode I recall was the most dramatic. I was moving in the void and somehow locked into an episode. I seemed to be on an outdoor patio in a park or something. There was a group of people sitting at a picnic table and a few feet away another group sitting at one of thoses round, white metal patio tables. They seemed to all be together. I approached them with my standard question of the evening: I asked them if anyone knew the date. I got a bunch of nonsensical answers from the people at the round table, things like "Its the 2nd". I'd say "the 2nd of what?" and get no reasonable response. But then one of the guys at the picnic table said "There is no date, this is a dream". I heard this and was startled like I haven't been in a long time. I turned around and began talking to this guy. He was looking at all his friends as if to say 'you dummys, there can't be any date now because we are dreaming'. He looked to be about 35, brown hair, had on preppy clothes and looked about as modern American as you can get. I became very excited. I asked "you know we are dreaming?" He acknowledged this. I couldn't believe how lucid *he* was. He seemed confused a bit, as if he was not used to being so lucid while he was dreaming. I assured him he was correct. I said "That's right we are dreaming right now." Then I asked him where he was from. He said Minneapolis, Minnesota, and made some little joke about the town and chuckled. Again, I was overwhelmed by his lucidity. His answers were quick and succinct, though he had that subtle confusion that comes with being lucid in the dream world when you are not used to doing so. He looked as if he was surprised by his own responses as much as I was. I told him that I too was dreaming and that I was from Detroit, Michigan. I told him that we were both dreaming right now and then I asked him again what was the date. He thought about it for a second and said "The 21st, no, no, the 2nd of December". I sh*t my pants! He *was real*. I couldn't believe it! This had never happened to me before. I immediately said, "Look, tell me your name and phone number and I am going to wake myself up right now and call you in Minneapolis". He told me his name, which I do not remember now. He was sitting there trying to recall his phone number. I could tell he was having difficulty in doing so, which is not uncommon for me even when I project. And then, almost without warning, I faded out and was lying awake in my bed. As I felt myself fading I became infinitely disappointed. I awoke thinking "So close, yet so far". Yet, at the same time, I was very excited. This is the first time I ever met and talked to anyone in a projection that was so lucid and had a grip over physical memories like this guy did. I laid in bed for a few moments trying to gather the memories together, then I fell asleep for the night." (END OF ENTRIES) To wrap up this section on meeting people during OOBEs, I would like to make a couple of closing comments. At the start of this section I discussed ways to verify your meetings with people you encounter while in the OOBE realm. However, after reading through the excerpts from my journal, I hope you can appreciate just how difficult acquiring such information is. There are two factors that make this a difficult endeavor. First, as we have seen, is the fact that people are usually in a daze when you meet them in a projection. You ask them a simple question like "What is your name?" and you get a garbage answer, or mumbo jumbo, or they say "I don't know". Thus, if you can't get any information from them in the first place, you are obviously in no position to verify this person's identity, whether they were dreaming or were deceased. Now, the second reason it is so difficult acquiring verifyable information during an OOBE has to do with retaining the information you get. For, as is illustrated in the above entries, it is very difficult to remember simple facts or details that you learn in a projection. Many times someone would tell me their name or some other simple data, and I would forget what they said almost as soon as it was said. Or, perhaps I would remember during the projection, but once I awoke I would forget the information before recording it in my journal. And because I forget this information so easily does not mean I have a bad memory. Whatever is going on here is just not that simple. There is something about being lucid in the OOBE realm that makes it inherently difficult to remember stuff. And further, the process of carrying the information back here to the physical plane is also another factor that can cause one to forget what occurred during the projection. This is why I stressed early on the need to strengthen your ability to remember dreams and to always lay and try to remember as much of your projection as you can as soon as you wake up, or to make mental notes to yourself while IN the projection; all of these things help strengthen your memories so you can carry them across the border between the physical and the dream realms. So, the bottom line is that getting verifyable information during an OOBE is no easy task. Some people (especially parapsychology types) have simplistic and naive notions about acquiring information during an OOBE, as if memorizing a fact while out-of-body is the same as memorizing a fact while in your body. This just isn't what's going on. To repeat: it is hard to get simple facts out of the people you meet during an OOBE and, it is also abnormally difficult to retain these facts if you get them. If they are not immediately forgotten during the OOBE, then they can easily be forgotten as one's consciousness passes from the OOBE realm back to the physical realm. And again, these factors have nothing to do with how good or bad your memory skills are here on the physical plane when you are awake. These memory problems seem to be inherent to the OOBE state itself and to the nature of the transition from being lucid in the OOBE to returning here to the physical world. This fact is probably a vital clue to the nature of the OOBE state and its relationship to our waking consciousness. So, what can you do about this? I cannot stress enough how important the memory exercises I prescribed are. You have to do everything in your power to strengthen the memory connection between your waking and your dream mind, and you have to very conscientiously work to remember both your dreams and your OOBEs. You have to work to develop habits that will ensure that you can successfully carry your memories back and forth between this physical world and the world in which OOBEs and dreams occur. Obviously, these memory problems are not insurmountable barriers as my recorded experiences attest to. Once again, practice makes perfect and the more you practice, the more likely you will be successful. ------------------------------------------------------------------- END OF FILE 13 -------------------------------------------------------------------

---

E-Mail Fredric L. Rice / The Skeptic Tank