(118) Fri 7 Jul 95 10:57 By: DAVID RICE To: GORDON HAYES Re: Molech St: @EID:bfd5 1ee75720

(118)   Fri 7 Jul 95 10:57
By: DAVID RICE
To: GORDON HAYES
Re: Molech
St:
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@EID:bfd5 1ee75720
@TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 10280
 -=> Quoting Gordon Hayes <=-

That's "Moloch" by the way. The Hebrew is "Mo^lek." The Greek
is "Molokh." The Latin (late) is "Moloch."

GH> First of all, idols depicting Molech were in the shape of
GH> a bull sitting on its' haunches with its' front legs
GH> extended. The belly of the idol was hollowed out and there
GH> was a shelf made between the outstretched front legs.
GH> Normally the idols were made of bronze or some similar
GH> metal.  Now to the mode of worship. A fire was built in the
GH> cavity of the belly of the idol. When sufficient heat was
GH> acquired, (the shelf was glowing hot) a child was placed on
GH> the shelf and was thus sacrificed or caused "to pass through
GH> the fire to Molech." Usually it was a firstborn male child
GH> that was sacrificed. But not always.

The above fable is not supported by any evidence. Even more
so, it is a much-added-to rendition of an earlier fable. The
only "Moloch child sacrifice" stories I'm aware of come from
early Christian writers who's honesty is greatly suspect.

The Phoenicians were well-known, well-traveled traders and
sailors. They "invented" money and the alphabet that was
later used by Greeks and Romans (and later, English). They
were discussed and written about throughout the
Mediterranean. The writings of Phoenicia, Carthage, Greece,
Sicily, and Rome (among others) do not mention any "child
sacrifice" traits of the Phoenicians.

In a word: the fable is BULLSHIT.

For additional research, I suggest you read about "The
Protocols of the Learned Elder of Zion."


... Newt does -NOT- speak for me!
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(122)   Fri 7 Jul 95 10:40
By: DAVID RICE
To: J.J. HITT
Re: Serious Question
St:
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@EID:a623 1ee75500
@TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 10280
 -=> Quoting J.j. Hitt to Preston Simpson <=-

>>CF> Who or what is Molech?  Does this passage refer to
>>CF> masturbation?

>PS> Molech (or Moloch) was a god worshipped in the areas around
>PS> Israel (and in Israel a few times). One of the more
>PS> important aspects of worshipping Molech was tossing one of
>PS> your children into a large furnace made in his shape.

I think that claim is not supported by evidence other than
early Christian writers' wishful thinking and slander. While
I have several sources that claim "children were sacrificed
to Moloch," most lack referrences and one self-referrencing
(the author provide rederrences to his own writings). The
only "reason" I can find for the claim that the Ammonites
and Phoenicians "sacrificed their children" is because it
makes a nice story for Christian. Anyone familure with the
Nazi "Protocols of the learned elders of Zion" will spot
the same theme. Also "The W.I.C.C.A. Letters."

JH> How is it that I've never seen a photograph of one of
JH> these metalic, baby-cooking, furnace idols?

Er, brick would be more likely.  :-)

There was a dig a decade ago that found a mass grave site of
children that was thought to be Phoenician. Christian
apologists, whom had been desperately looking for evidence of
"child sacrifice" were eager to grab onto this site as
"proof" of the early Christian writer's claims. But the
bodies showed no sign of fire or trama (broken bones). They
more than likely died from a disease that swept the city.

JH> There must be a museum somewhere that has (at least)
JH> peices of one of these early Phonecian BBQ grills.

The Phoenicians had a written (Semetic) language which does
not mention killing their children (or anyone elses, come
to that).

JH> How is it that so many of these Biblical stories have
JH> no supporting archeological evidence?

Same reason the "Protocols" stories have no supporting
evidence. I've written to the author of _Holly_Hatred_ and
have asked him to provide evidence for his claim that the
Phoenicians "sacrificed children." His scholarship in both
of his books seems, to me, to be sadly lacking--- I do not
expect an answer from him.

JH> (ESPECIALLY when the author is detailing something about
JH> his enemies?)

Unfortunately, many religious people do kill their children.
In the "Western" part of the globe they are overwhelmingly
Christian. In parts of India female infants are still
"exposed." Throughout the globe infants are mutilated, though
the female ones are generally mutilated much worse than the
males. It would not surprise me too much if some day there
WAS evidence found that showed that the Phoenicians
"sacrificed children." But as it currently stands, the lack
of evidence makes the stories highly unlikely.


... I never have sex before the first date.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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