(118) Fri 7 Jul 95 10:57 By: DAVID RICE To: GORDON HAYES Re: Molech St: @EID:bfd5 1ee75720

---
Master Index Current Directory Index Go to SkepticTank Go to Human Rights activist Keith Henson Go to Scientology cult

Skeptic Tank!

(118) Fri 7 Jul 95 10:57 By: DAVID RICE To: GORDON HAYES Re: Molech St: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ @EID:bfd5 1ee75720 @TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 10280 -=> Quoting Gordon Hayes <=- That's "Moloch" by the way. The Hebrew is "Mo^lek." The Greek is "Molokh." The Latin (late) is "Moloch." GH> First of all, idols depicting Molech were in the shape of GH> a bull sitting on its' haunches with its' front legs GH> extended. The belly of the idol was hollowed out and there GH> was a shelf made between the outstretched front legs. GH> Normally the idols were made of bronze or some similar GH> metal. Now to the mode of worship. A fire was built in the GH> cavity of the belly of the idol. When sufficient heat was GH> acquired, (the shelf was glowing hot) a child was placed on GH> the shelf and was thus sacrificed or caused "to pass through GH> the fire to Molech." Usually it was a firstborn male child GH> that was sacrificed. But not always. The above fable is not supported by any evidence. Even more so, it is a much-added-to rendition of an earlier fable. The only "Moloch child sacrifice" stories I'm aware of come from early Christian writers who's honesty is greatly suspect. The Phoenicians were well-known, well-traveled traders and sailors. They "invented" money and the alphabet that was later used by Greeks and Romans (and later, English). They were discussed and written about throughout the Mediterranean. The writings of Phoenicia, Carthage, Greece, Sicily, and Rome (among others) do not mention any "child sacrifice" traits of the Phoenicians. In a word: the fable is BULLSHIT. For additional research, I suggest you read about "The Protocols of the Learned Elder of Zion." ... Newt does -NOT- speak for me! * Shy.David@EdenBBS.com --- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.3H1G * Origin: "And furthermore, 'Don't call me brother.'" (1:124/9005) SEEN-BY: 102/2 138 435 752 835 851 890 943 1326 147/7 270/101 280/1 9 10 25 SEEN-BY: 280/31 45 53 115 135 333 378 398 290/627 396/1 @PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 280/1 102/2 835 943 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (122) Fri 7 Jul 95 10:40 By: DAVID RICE To: J.J. HITT Re: Serious Question St: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ @EID:a623 1ee75500 @TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 10280 -=> Quoting J.j. Hitt to Preston Simpson <=- >>CF> Who or what is Molech? Does this passage refer to >>CF> masturbation? >PS> Molech (or Moloch) was a god worshipped in the areas around >PS> Israel (and in Israel a few times). One of the more >PS> important aspects of worshipping Molech was tossing one of >PS> your children into a large furnace made in his shape. I think that claim is not supported by evidence other than early Christian writers' wishful thinking and slander. While I have several sources that claim "children were sacrificed to Moloch," most lack referrences and one self-referrencing (the author provide rederrences to his own writings). The only "reason" I can find for the claim that the Ammonites and Phoenicians "sacrificed their children" is because it makes a nice story for Christian. Anyone familure with the Nazi "Protocols of the learned elders of Zion" will spot the same theme. Also "The W.I.C.C.A. Letters." JH> How is it that I've never seen a photograph of one of JH> these metalic, baby-cooking, furnace idols? Er, brick would be more likely. :-) There was a dig a decade ago that found a mass grave site of children that was thought to be Phoenician. Christian apologists, whom had been desperately looking for evidence of "child sacrifice" were eager to grab onto this site as "proof" of the early Christian writer's claims. But the bodies showed no sign of fire or trama (broken bones). They more than likely died from a disease that swept the city. JH> There must be a museum somewhere that has (at least) JH> peices of one of these early Phonecian BBQ grills. The Phoenicians had a written (Semetic) language which does not mention killing their children (or anyone elses, come to that). JH> How is it that so many of these Biblical stories have JH> no supporting archeological evidence? Same reason the "Protocols" stories have no supporting evidence. I've written to the author of _Holly_Hatred_ and have asked him to provide evidence for his claim that the Phoenicians "sacrificed children." His scholarship in both of his books seems, to me, to be sadly lacking--- I do not expect an answer from him. JH> (ESPECIALLY when the author is detailing something about JH> his enemies?) Unfortunately, many religious people do kill their children. In the "Western" part of the globe they are overwhelmingly Christian. In parts of India female infants are still "exposed." Throughout the globe infants are mutilated, though the female ones are generally mutilated much worse than the males. It would not surprise me too much if some day there WAS evidence found that showed that the Phoenicians "sacrificed children." But as it currently stands, the lack of evidence makes the stories highly unlikely. ... I never have sex before the first date. * Shy.David@EdenBBS.com --- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.3H1G * Origin: "And furthermore, 'Don't call me brother.'" (1:124/9005) SEEN-BY: 102/2 138 435 752 835 851 890 943 1326 147/7 270/101 280/1 9 10 25 SEEN-BY: 280/31 45 53 115 135 333 378 398 290/627 396/1 @PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 280/1 102/2 835 943

---

E-Mail Fredric L. Rice / The Skeptic Tank