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By: Autopost Re: HOLYSMOKE FAQ - HOLYFAQ.0 The Fidonet HOLYSMOKE Frequently Made-up Questions sheet Originally by David Rice, updated and maintained by C. J. Henshaw Last Revised 02 Jun 1994 INTRODUCTION by various echo members selected at random: "Welcome to the lovely world of HolySmoke! Watch out! The sugar-coating you now wear will probably wear off before long. It doesn't take very long, here. We're the Comet Cleanser of religion." Questor Thews "Argument from popularity. There was a time when a hundred percent of the world's population thought the world was flat (if they thought about it at all). Did the make the world flat? Hardly! It make a hundred percent of the people stupid, and nothing more." - Marylin Burge "Take your bible banging and shove it where the sun don't shine. It is a farce and totally unnecessary to a worthwhile, virtuous life, if only you were adult enough to know it." - MB "The fundies that come through here start out by trying to display an attitude of thoughtful discussion. When they find that their mythologies are systematically disassembled and found to _be_ myths, coupled with the friction specifically designed to remove their sugar coating, the actual Christian under said sugar coating is exposed. "And you can guess what's under it. I couldn't begin to enumerate those who specifically stated that they wished they could be around to watch the hurtful, educated HolySmoke participants `burn in 'hell.''" - Fredric Rice "Have you worshiped Satan today?" - FR "I've already addressed this in one message to you, but to emphasize: I AM NOT A FUNDAMENTALIST. Do NOT make assumptions about me thinking I am." -- Michael Hardy "`Quack,' said a certain flight-capable aquatic fowl. You persist in trying to include the unaffected in your beliefs. If you have webbed feet, quack and waddle like a duck, chances are, you are, indeed, a duck." -FR "We have far too many lawyers in the United States for anything approaching justice to ever be served." -FR "To believe in something without reason, that is to say, without reasonable grounds, is superstition, whether it is a belief that a black cat crossing your path will bring you bad luck, or God may pass judgement over your soul and send you to Hell for your evils." -Michael Gothreau "Perhaps you would send some [newspaper articles] my way...yeah...I know it's like the rest of your big circus of lies." Ron Stringfollow "We're not here to discuss religion, we're here to be disgusted by it." Gwen "Gwenny the pooh" Todd "Sorry, I must have misunderstood your question. I believe that the Holy Spirit caused one of Mary's eggs to become a fetus without sperm." Steve Bedard "In vertebrates, the phenomena of parthenogenesis (look it up) is well documented in the classes Pisces, Amphibia and Reptilia, but not in Aves nor Mammalia. Therefore, we are forced to conclude that ol' Jesus must have been either a land shark or the original lounge lizard." Marty Leipzig answers Steve Bedard. "This ain't the harmony echo, dipshit." - Robert Curry. "This echo is abomination. This echo is also filled with those who will one day bend their knee to Jesus Christ and call him Lord, whether they like it or not! And to think how much fun I'm gonna have fun watching you say it." Martin Riley "The fact that a Jewish hasid lived in the 1st century CE in the country of either Galilee or Judaea, was very charismatic, a little brilliant and a little looney is not in question." - Simon Ewins "To accept as truth what the gospels (which were written after Paul's letters and were designed to support his ideas) say about Jesus, is to accept as truth what Goebbels says about Hitler. To accept as truth what Paul says about himself as supported by what the author of Acts says about Paul, is to accept what Hitler says about himself as supported by what Goebbels says about Hitler as truth." -SE "Christianity has nothing to be proud of. Any good that it may have done has been completely offset by the perpetuation of racial and religious hatred that it has fostered and encouraged." -SE "Paul only quotes Jesus twice. Why would that be if he is basing his entire theology on the life and work and resurrection of Jesus?" -SE "Anybody that brags about hearing voices in his/her head concerns me." Steve Quarrella "It is like arguing with a lump of shit. The longer one argues with shit, the sillier one appears, and the shit ain't listening." David Rice "God told me the Book of Mormon was true." Conrad Knudson "One thing at a time. Answer the question, godling." Ron Stringfellow "Calling [Bob Larson's] radio theater show 'hard-hitting' would be like comparing the intellect of Dan Quayle favorably with that of Leonardo da Vinci or Albert Einstein." Sean McCullough "If god breathed on a pile of dust all he would get is a cloud and maybe a sneeze or two." Lonny Bethany "It's rather like having Freedie Kruger babysit children. Or asking Pee Wee Herman to teach human sexuality. Or asking Jim Bakker to be treasurer of the United States. Or asking Jim Jones to look over the refreshments." Fredric Rice "'God' is the name of a particular god, the Christian one." Bob Winn "In Cyber-Space, no one gives a damn if you scream." Steve Rose "Peter, I know what pi r2 is and have since the beginning. . . and I am sure that god took that into account." Ron Stringfellow "Any god who was elected a god by majority vote, like Jesus, must have a severe identity crisis." David Rice "I missed being god by one vote!" Odin "Jesus is Isis!?? Christ! I've been fucking the wrong god!" Steve Rose "'I am saved.' From what? Having to think for yourself?" Fredric Rice "When we believe that our individual will is the superior force in the cosmos we deny the harmony which creation itself seeks. Jesus's struggle in Gesthemane shows us that there is a will to be served beyond our own self-interests. . ." Jesse C. Jones ". . . Jesus had nothing to loose, either." Fredric Rice answers Jesse "Lies are hard to keep straight in an era without sophisticated communications, it would seem." Simon Ewins "BUT... if I told you that 1+1=1, as idiotic as it seems, until I am proven wrong, I am right." Zach Webb "Faith in yourself will not help when the problem is beyond your control." Steve Bedard "The use of pepper is the only blasphemy." Robert Curry "My my, I have the false Christian scum (and their infidel, reprobate brethren), the Sodomites and the general filth of FidoNet all ganging up on me." Steve Winter "Aids cures queers" Steve Winter "By-the-way, Mary is still a slut and your precious Jesus is long dead and rotted in the grave. I've profaned your Savior, now what do you intend to do about it?" Shelby Sherman "Do you imagine that sexuality began with mammals? Cockroaches are male and female, as you would notice if you paid any attention to your congregation." Don Martin "Okay. I'll retract the story about the man who was arrested for praying in the Florida restaurant. But only because you and others are hung up on it. This should clear the way for what I really want to prove. That is the Historicity of Jesus. So, Robert, you have my retraction for what it's worth. (Not that it's a lie.)" Joe Savelli "I see now why Jesus said the Jews' father is the devil. Beware! The Jew is the antichrist." Keith Baxter / Larry Rollins / Gerald Norris "If 'Jesus' does come to Earth- is it the first coming (as per Jewish tradition), second (Xian), or third (Mormon)? I wonder- and I hope he lands feet first on ALL televangelists. (Preying on fear sickens me!!!)" Rachael Roth "That god's dead" "He moved!" "You pushed him!" "Is not!" C. J. Henshaw "Matt, do you suppose incest is why we have fundamentalists?" Liz Saunders "Jesus made claims that have been proven to be wrong... Mark 9:1, Matthew 16:28, Matthew 23:36, Luke 9:27, Matthew 24:21- 34, Matthew 10:23... all claiming foreknowledge of his return, all wrong. Gee, maybe he's dead." Simon Ewins "Star Goat is a blasphemous tool of your cunning." Jesse C. Jones "I'm so ugly I could make a buzzard throw up." David Rice "If the theists all shut up, the gods would be speechless." Robert Curry "We already have the necessary proof - the Scriptures. God has already told us what happened. Why do we need further proof?" Derek Williams "What scares the shit out of me is that here in southern Tennessee (and probably many other areas) the psychological clinics are LINKING religious beliefs and psychological well-being. That's kind of like giving someone AIDS to cure sexual dysfunction." Tim Bennett "Creation 'Science' is to science what Rap 'Music' is to music: a lot of noise and utterly incoherent." David Rice "`In God we trust' - David Koresh" Sunjester "If atheism is a religion, then health is a desese" - Unknown "Blasphmy is good for the soul" - Robert Curry This is the introduction to the HOLYSMOKE FidoNet echo conference FAQ. It attempts to ask the question, "Why is there holy smoke?" The quick answer is, "Because it fills a need." The long answer is slightly more complicated. There are many religion-based echo conferences in FidoNet, most of which are sponsored and moderated by members of various religions. The majority of these conferences are various forms of monotheism such as Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, with various Christian cults dominating (in Zone 1). Many other religious conferences are polytheistic or pantheistic, such as Wiccan, Pagan, and neo-Pagan. And then there are what can loosely be clumped together as "New Age," though much of "New Age Thought" is not religious, but rather philosophical and ideological--- this observation varies from one "New Ager" to another. The latter two echoes welcome honest inquiry and criticism. The Wiccan religion, of which there are several "Traditions,", REQUIRE honest inquiry, relentless questioning, and harsh criticism from their members and students to any dogma that may be presented--- the Wiccan echoes reflect this free inquiry, and all queries are generally answered in the spirit of honesty and mutual respect. Nither of us have spent any time in the "New Age" echoes, so we can't tell you about them. If you have spent any time at all reading the monotheist echoes, and particularly the Christian and Islamic ones, you will have discovered that the moderators, without exception, are authoritarian, dictatorial, and grim "control freaks" who will not tolerate honest inquiry of their ridged dogma--- questioning "virgin births," "bleeding / weeping statues," and asking "Why would god pray to himself?" are immediately ruled "off topic," and the person posing the question may have her echo feed severed, usually with a lot of hell and damnation thrown in, sometimes with threats of legal action, and then she is ordered to repent from her sin of questioning "god" (i.e. the moderator's occult beliefs). Since these cults refuse to accept anything less than unquestioned obedience to their religious dogma, another echo was required where one may go and ask the right questions and discover the truth. The HOLYSMOKE echo exists so that off-topic religious issues from other echoes in FidoNet may be moved to an echo where they are topical. No one in the past four years has yet succeeded in helping any theist think past their brainwashing and self-deception to see the truth, but there's always the chance that some ignorant god- believing savage will be saved from their delusions, so we have to try. *wink!* Q: What is "HOLYSMOKE?" A: HolySmoke, the "McLaughlin Group" of FidoNet echoes, is an arena wherein people with deeply-held religious convictions may come and set the ignorant Godless heathens straight, or not, as the case may be. This is the echo where echovangelists are banished when they are off-topic in other FidoNet echoes, such as A_THEIST and COOKING. (See "Echovangelist" entry below). It is the "electroshock therapy for religion addicts" cure that so many FidoNet members are so richly and clearly in need of. The moderator is Styx Allum of 1:152/20. If you don't like his name, insult his parents. It's REAL! Q: Why is the phrases "You seem bitter" and "My, you're so full of anger" so often used by religionists in HolySmoke? A: These phrases are often used as replies to excessively abrasive arguments by an agnostic or atheist that has demonstrated the religionist's pet assertions false; the religionist resorts to eliciting an emotional response instead of addressing the topic at hand. Q: "You seem bitter / full of anger! Why?" A: From John Musselwhite: that, because he did it so well: "You may be missing the point. The people who are ridiculed (as it were) are not those who profess a simple belief in a creator; they are those who insist their beliefs are correct and we MUST ALL bow down before GOD before we all roast in Hell. Then there are those who make ridiculous claims about the veracity of their "Book" and attempt to use pseudo-science to "prove" they are right. As for myself, I could care less who a person worships, although I usually strongly disagree with their intent. As a secular student of biblical times, I have learned a lot about what Christianity was really all about (IMHO) and what life was like in first-century Judah. Personally, I feel those who take the Bible literally and those who follow Pauline thought should study more, and attempt to understand what was REALLY going on! By far the biggest problem though, are those who insist I should pay to support their religion. Our city supports a separate school system for Catholics, and the duplication of services and buildings costs every one of us. There are many examples of religion being pushed on those who do not wish it. We who do NOT wish to have anything to do with religion must suffer through innumerable disturbances from people who insist their religion should be in the forefront. THOSE are the people who are the targets of ridicule in this echo!" Q: What is a `fundi`? (Also, fundy, fundies) A: From Marty Leipzig: FUNDIE (fun'dee) n. and adj. (Var. Fundy; pls. Fundies, Fundys), A member of an American conservative religious movement that believes in biblical inerrancy. This movement had its roots in the nineteenth-century orthodox reaction to the higher (historico- literary) criticism of the Bible that originated among European theologians and was accepted by American "modernists". Fundamentalism owes its name to the "Five Fundamentals", a list of five beliefs that the Presbyterian General Assembly drew up in 1910 as being essential to the Christian faith. Among those fundamentals was the doctrine of biblical inerrancy. Fundies (scientifically: Homo nesciens idiotus) come in two varieties; (about more later) but are united by the belief that each and every word ("jot and tittle") of the Holy Writ (at least, their latest authorized version) is unequivocally true. When they find a text convenient to an argument, it is quotable as the ultimate truth. But when confronted with an apparent contradiction, however rational and logical, they sail away upon the wings of a symbol, an analogy of hidden or recondite significance. Although two separate and distinct "kinds" of fundies exist, (H.n.i. var. ruralensis and H.n.i. var. urbanensis), they can be typically identified by their ubiquitous possession of a heavily thumped (but seldom read) Bible; an almost cataleptic and unquestioned adherence to dated dogma and the extraordinarily annoying ability of being able to interject their own personal version of ethics and morality into almost any subject, no matter how abstruse. As a group, they are exasperatingly uni-dimensional. H.n.i. var. ruralensis can be typified as a backwoods rustic living among the 'possums, 'coons, 'dillos and magnolias who is functionally illiterate. Though some may become transplanted to more municipal settings; they stubbornly adhere to old habits: mouth breathing, barefootedness and brainless Bible-based bleating. A macroevolutionary jump (although most would argue that it is really a regressive event) is responsible for the other variety: H.n.i. var. urbanensis. They arose from their humbler cousins in the deep, dark, dank backwoods but have evolved to exploit the trophism of bright lights, television cameras, teleprompters and wireless communication. Basically, a member of this group can be described as a country bumpkin of the wacko-right turned religious zealot and usually named Billy, Jimmy, Oral or some other familiar sobriquet. They drape the mantle of Christian piety around their shoulders (which they carefully interweave with the American flag), and stomping off on a witch hunt; ferret out "fellow travelers", "one- worlders", that archenemy of all right thinking people: the "secular humanist", and other assorted bogeymen. With a primitive view of this world and a psychedelic view of the next, they harangue lost sinners (and those with the ability to think for themselves) in an impassioned and declamatory style to "REPENT!" and be born again. Ranting and raving; and spouting smoke, fury, fire, brimstone and stained glass blather; they pace whatever stage they can usurp like a whirling dervish with a caffeine addiction. The venue may change, but the song always remains the same. Usually, such narrowly unspecialized organisms as the ones cited above represent an evolutionary dead-end. In these cases, though, it is more of a U-turn. A: Someone who hates for God, and calls it "love." These can come from any cult: Born Against Christians, Krishna Devotees, Mormons, Cult Awareness Network, Pat Robertson's, Jerry Falwell's, Jimmy Stewart's. While there are a great many of these, they are usually the fringe minority from any given cult. Q: Nice humor, A: We think so. Q: Stop interrupting me! A: Sorry Q: I've forgotten what I was going to say. A: No great loss. Q: "Why is everyone picking on me?" A: Chances are, you deserve it. When someone asserts wild and baseless claims, and then insists that others believe these claims, one may expect a little heat. Some assertions that generate heat: "My book was written by god because it says so, and god wouldn't lie." "God hates such-and-such." "God loves such-and-such." "I'll pray for you, you stupid ignorant gibbering idiot pitiful atheists." Some of the theists in HOLYSMOKE are not picked on or abused, because they do not bring it upon themselves. Most atheists and agnostics, Pagans and Wiccans and other disreputable folks in HOLYSMOKE get their toast fried now and then, too, so don't feel you're alone in your "persecution." Q: "But this is serious stuff! Don't you realize you're in danger of hell?!" A: Don't you realise you're in danger of being murdered? Q: "But what if Satan is real? You owe it to yourself to be ready just in case." A: What if Allah is real? You owe it to yourself to be ready just in case. A: From Jason Rosendale: Which has the better probability of being realized: The existence of Satan, or the existence of a letter bomb in your mail box? Hint: If you cower in fear of Satan because "there's a remote chance that he COULD exist", you must be REALLY phobic about opening your mail! Yet you open your mail gleefully each day, as you cower in fear of Satan. This makes it obvious that your talk about probability is just a pathetic excuse to continue to believe in a baseless superstition. Q: What is "Hir?" A: Politically correct gender-neutral noun, "Her + Him = Hir." Q: What is "Per" A: An ultra-Politically correct version of "Person". Q: What is "Crucifixation?" A: A state of mental duress, usually inside a fundamentalist Christian brain, that admires blood, guts, suffering, agony, drinking blood of God and eating His body, and usually wishes to be crucified and martyred hirself. This fixation prevents those afflicted with it to question why Jews would crucify a heretic in the Roman fashion, when death by stoning was the preferred method of disposing of sons of Gods. Q: What does "Athiest" mean? A: Bile-ed if I know! Christian Comics use this word to represent people without morals; heathens without ethics; lawyers; baby-eaters; perverts; sodomites; people who voted Democrat. This word is universally used by theists, to demonstrate the abysmal lack of education and spelling ability of the USA (from whence most HOLYSMOKErs reside). Q: What is the "Flood Of Ignorance?" A: The Creationist's claims of a global flood, survived by Noah and his clan, whereby millions of humans died horribly; whereby billions of animals died in screaming terror by drowning--- your typical Christian Death Cult story, which they get off on so much. Q: What's this "IHS!" thing? A: This can mean a great many things! It was originally coined by a HolySmoke Regular to mean "In His Service!" though it is not clear just who "His" may be. Usual variations may mean "I'm Happy Stupid!" SHIt backwards, "I'm Helping Satan!" "In Hitler's Service!" "I Hate Science!" "Idiot Has Spoken!" "I heat sausage!" "I Hate Spam!" and others far too numerous to mention. The most common usage in HOLYSMOKE means "BULLtIHS!" The original meaning is "In Hoc Signum Vincit," referring to the Christian crucifix as "By this sign we conquer." Q: And what's this "TIHS!" thing? A: SHIT backwards. Q: What is "One Nation Under God?" A: Iran. Q: What is a "Creationist?" A: What apes evolved from. Q: Really, what is a "Creationist?" A: Someone who is stupid enough to 'think' the FACT of evolution is false just because their hol(e)y book(s) tell them so. Q: What is a "Not Real True Christian?" A: Any Christian that isn't a member of the same cult as the one talking right now. A: When murder, mayhem, rape, and atrocities are performed by Christians in the name of God, their partners in religion say they were not Real True Christians. Some famous Not Real True Christians include Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Jones, Hitler, Jerry Falwell, All Catholics, Jeffrey Dahlmer, Mike Warnke, John "Todd" Collins, Mormons, God Jehovah, and the IRA/Provos. Q: What is a "Real True Christian?" A: The Christian that you happen to be talking to at this minute. A: A Christian, individually or grouped in a herd, that has not yet been exposed as child molesters, pornographers, whore-mongers, serial killers, or income tax cheaters. (See "Not Real True Christian.") Some famous Real True Christians are Gandi, who wasn't, Buddha, who isn't, and Jesus, who never existed. Q: Now hold on here. You can't responsibly group those obviously psychotic fringe groups that claim to be of God with the true Christians among us. A: From Paul Boyer: Why not group "those obviously psychotic fringe groups" with the rest of the *cough, cough* "True Christians"? You "True Christians" do exactly the same thing you decry above, against groups with which you disagree -- i.e., you characterize all gays and lesbians from the actions of extremist ACT UP affinity groups; you characterize all pro-choice people from the activities of a few doctors who perform late-term abortions [in emergencies]; you characterize all Liberals from the views of a few who are doctrinaire Leftists. You and your kind demonize your opponents from the actions of a few of the most extreme of their kind, yet expect to be exempt from similar stigmatization? Q: What is "Christian Double Standard Time" A: This is the standard that some Christians use to judge who is and is not Christian. If a Christian commits a crime for Jesus, the perpetrator may or may not be a criminal or Christian, depending on the crime. See "Not Real Christian." Q: What is a "Christian Comic?" A: In a great many FidoNet echoes, there are days when a Christian Fundamentalist waltzes in, says something hilarious, then waltzes out without regard for topical relatedness, quality, protocol, or desire for rational dialogue. Humorous stuff like "You're forever damned for all time," or "The first law of thermodynamics says evolution is false (they don't know how to count to two)," or "They aren't Real True Christians." Such jerks often get refered to HOLYSMOKE. Most of them are "cowards for Christ" and never show up. Q: What does "IS NOT!" mean? A: This is the Theory of Creation Science. Q: What is the "Theory of Creation Science?" A: "IS NOT!" Creationists refuse to provide a theory of Creationism, because they do not have one. Therefore it is damn hard to teach it in public school, yet they still demand that it should. Creationists assume that if they can find holes in evolutionary theory, their religious beliefs become true via default. Therefore their efforts are never to find evidence to falsify their non- existent theory, but to "prove" evolutionary theory unsound-- this effort they call "Creation Science," which it isn't. Go figure. Q: What is the "$15.00 God Challenge?" A: David Rice will give US$15.00 to anyone who can prove He isn't God. Previous attempts have failed miserably, as contestants assume that He must perform some miracle for them, which would be Him proving He is God, and not them proving He is not. This challenge is a thought experiment for theists to consider when they assert proof of their tiny little gods and disproof of Others like the One True God, David Rice. If they can prove their god(s) are real, surely they can prove Omnipotent Rice isn't? Frederic Rice aparently has $1000 U.S. up for grabs if anyone can prove any god exists. NOTE: These offers are from their respective parties. I am in no way connected with them. I have not verified the truthfulnes of either offer. Q: What is the "Mutant Star Goat?" A: The One True God, Who created life, the universe, and everything. Now prove me wrong! This is another thought experiment for theists. Everything they claim for their God(s) can be said for Star Goat with equal validity. Star Goat (braise His name) sent His only begotten Son, Billy, to Earth to die on the Holy Bar-Be-Que Pit for us. Those who continue to deny this truth will be eaten on Judgment Day by Star Goat, to stew in the Holy Bile for all eternity. If a theist believes she or he can punch a hole in Star Goat theology, they should come to realize eventually that every hole they create APPLIES EQUALLY to their God(s). No one can prove Star Goat is not the One True God, and Goatees know in their hearts that He is, therefore He is! QED. Q: What is a "Goatee?" A: A devotee of Star Goat. Q: What is "Bile-ed" and "Bile-it?" A: When evil sinners, or anyone else who did not worship Star Goat in life, find themselves dead, their souls will be swallowed by Billy, Star Goat's only beGoatten Son, to stew in the Holy Bile for all eternity. This is roughly equivalent to "damned" but unlike the falsehood of Hell, the Holy Bile EXISTS! Goat save you if you don't hurry and accept Billy as your Personal Savior! Send money! We are the advocates of the Goat Life! Honest. (No refunds.) Q: "Pink, invisible, flying hippo?" Excuse me? A: Yes. Her name is Daisy, and she leaves invisible, smell-free turds on the keyboards of every fundy that posts in HOLYSMOKE. Now prove she doesn't! When someone brings up the non-measurability of their favorite god (Jesus, Satan, Yahweh, Jehovah, Zeus, Odin), others bring up Daisy and point out that the evidence she exists is identical to the evidence their god(s) exist. Q: What is an "Atheist?" A: From Usenet's alt.atheist FAQ: Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of God. Some atheists go further, and believe that God does not exist. The former is often referred to as the "weak atheist" position, and the latter as "strong atheism". It is important to note the difference between these two positions. "Weak atheism" is simple scepticism; disbelief in the existence of God. "Strong atheism" is a positive belief that God does not exist. Please do not fall into the trap of assuming that all atheists are "strong atheists". Some atheists believe in the non-existence of all Gods; others limit their atheism to specific Gods, such as the Christian God, rather than making flat-out denials. "But isn't disbelieving in God the same thing as believing he doesn't exist?" Definitely not. Disbelief in a proposition means that one does not believe it to be true. Not believing that something is true is not equivalent to believing that it is false; one may simply have no idea whether it is true or not. Q: What is an "Agnostic?" A: One who doesn't know, or give a shit, if God exist or not. Q: What is "God?" A: God is God because He is. Q: No really: what is "God?" A: God is someone theists attribute all the good things that happen, like "I thank God for letting me win this football game," or "Thank God they didn't catch me molesting these alter boys," or "Thank God for my job / spouse / slaves." This Guy gets all the credit for other people's hard work and devotion. Q: I'm serious, now! What is "God?" A: God is someone theists attribute all the bad things that happen, like hurricanes that kill hundreds and leave thousands homeless ("It was God's Will"), earthquake disasters, plane crashes, New Jersey never winning the Pennant, floods, death by lightening strike, and virginity. Q: What is an "Echovangelist?" A: Steve Winter Q: Who or what is "Steve Winter" A: A jerk who writes crap like this: The moderator of HOMESCHL demands an echo where a Sodomite or witch etc, can feel comfortable, an echo devoid of any standard of morality or decency (or any referrence to such). That type of sub-canine immorality is what has provided society with such things as AIDS, openly Sodomite public school teachers, and scoutmaster child molesters (read the news where they have dismissed 1700 scoutmasters for child molesting?)) If the terms "morality" or "decency" hold a positive meaning for you, please keep reading. I, though being an Apostolic Pentecostal (just basic true Biblical Christianity) preacher, do believe that homeschooling needs to be regarded as a political rather than a religious issue. HOWEVER, even as a political movement, basic foundational principles of decency and morality must not be disguarded. I think that the news of a Sodomite public school teacher passing out pornography is "newsworthy" and should be considered by those who are considering homeschooling. - And, crap like this: The Bible is clear regarding the sin of homosexuality. Steve Winter FidoNet 1:18/98 Here are both old testament and new testament scriptures that document that homosexuality is totally incompatable with true Christianity or true Judaism. Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination. Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them. Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; I Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor EFFEMINATE, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, I hope I've been "exhaustive" enough here with this brief Bible study. It does seem from these verses that God does have strong feelings concerning certain matters.... I encourage anyone deceived into the sewers of homosexuality to repent and find a true Acts 2:38 Church. The sin is fatal, but it is not unforgivable. - Worst of all, he beleves every word of it. Q: How does one deal with Echovangelists?" A: Ignore them and let the moderator deal with them. You see, these sorry, pathetic souls NEED, and WANT, and DESIRE to be ridiculed and abused. They lust after the feeling of being persecuted, because they think it's for "defending God" when in fact it is for being an anal-retentive asshole. If they are not feeling persecuted, they feel they are not doing their job well enough to keep out of hell. Q: What is "Penis Envy?" A: This is what Randal Terry's wife, who has never seen one, suffers from. For most people, however, this is a male affliction, not a female one. According to Satan, in His book "Satan: His Psychotherapy and Cure (by the Unfortunate Doctor Kasser, J.S.P.S.)" the first words out of Eve's mouth was "Where do I get one of those?" (But then, Satan is a Freudian.) Q: What is the "Fundi-Of-The-Month" club? A: HOLYSMOKE. Almost every month, a new group of fundies shows up, spouting the same old religous/creationism claptrap. The most brainless ones have been here for upto 2 years, but most depart in a month or so Q: What is a "Republican?" A: Someone who spends 12 years annihilating American freedoms, destroying the Supreme Court, making being black illegal, raids Social Security of 500 million dollars when they promised they wouldn't, starts wars in South Amarica, invades Panama in defience of international law had the second largest tax increase of all time -- a net increase of $125 billion over five years. [Wall Street Journal, 8/12/92], then blames the damage on his successor. A: A very sore loser. A: The political arm of the Amarican fundamentalist MOOvment. Q: What is a "Democrat?" A: A commie pinko socialist traitor bleeding-heart liberal anarchist who Republicans can use as convenient scapegoats. Q: What is a "cult?" A: Anyone who doesn't belong to the same religous group that you do. A: A religon without political power. Q: What is the "OFTEN_BABBLE" (AKA "OPEN_BABBLE") echo? A: The echo is actually called OPEN_BIBLE. Q: Tell me about the "HOLY_BIBLE" echo. A: This echo is run by the emotionally ill Steve Winters, who has professed it to be THE ONLY =REAL= Christian echo on FidoNet, disregarding the dozen or so other Christian echoes, which aren't really, but just clever simulations by Satan into fooling people into believing that the echoes are Christian-based. No, really! Just ask Steve! As part of my annoy Steve campaign, I placed an entry for HOLIER_BIBLE in the echolist. This echo does not exist, so stop sending me netmail about it.... Q: What is the "HERESY_WATCH" echo? A: The true name for Harvey Smith's CULT_WATCH echo (which doesn't). This is your basic Christian hate cult promoting ignorance, hysteria, and propaganda for God. This echo is sponsored by a messianic Jewish cult. Q: What about the "CULT_INFO" echo? A: This is a very fine echo, that constructively addresses religious differences, and seeks to find a common dialog among the various religions that are represented in the echo's readership. It is moderated by the Priestess Rowan Moonstone. This echo is ONLY accessable from PODS. Q: And the echo "BURNING_TIMES?" A: This is an echo that addresses violence in the name of religion / God. There are often newspaper articles posted here, keeping readers up to date on the "Satanic Crime" myth, and discusses attacks against such groups as Pagans, Wiccans, Christians, Homosexuals, and Jews by religionists and bigots. Q: What is the A_THEIST echo? A: A place to discuss the importance of state / church separation. We don't do god(s) here! See also CHURCH&STATE. Both are backboned, but C&S isn't avalible on Plannet Connect due to a lack of requests. Q: What does "fundagelical" mean? A: Someone who is so narrow minded to be able to look through a keyhole with both eyes at the same time. Example: Joe Savelli and Steve Winter. Q: What is a "religiocrit?" A: Someone who has a special commission from upon high, or a special mandate from their cult, to be a religious hypocrite. Examples are Duane Gish and Henry Morris as well as just about 100% of all creationists. Q: And "Contradictianity?" A: This is a Christian belief that claims obvious, glaring, naked biblical contradictions aren't. Q: What is "Fundi Disk Failure?" (Also: "Sheenism") A: We often get Christians on the echo who claim they will shortly, in a few days, provide proof of their god's existence, or proof of a global flood, or proof that Earth is flat, or proof that evolution didn't and isn't occurring-- just to vanish at the appointed time, later showing up claiming a "hard disk crash" ate their proof (I hate it when that happens!). The first time someone made this claim, he blamed it on Satan. The next person this happened to blamed it on his god, Jesus-- so they got us coming and going, eh? Of course -I- believe them unconditionally. . . would a Christian lie? Q: What is "The Rupture?" A: Every few months someone claims that their "Rapture" is imminent, and we must all "get right" with his gods. This causes people to laugh so hard they rupture a lower intestine. There have been claims of "imminent rapture" for hundreds of years, the latest being October 23, 1992. The next is scheduled for September 1994. There is even a Fundamentalist Christian text file telling us what to do when we find we've been left behind. Honest! Would I lie to you? Q: Why is evolution constantly a topic in HOLYSMOKE? A: Goat Bile-ed if I know! This is probably because Creationists refuse to go to the proper echo, called EVOLUTION, because there are several more well-informed scientists there than in HOLYSMOKE. As yet, no Creationist has failed to be properly corrected of their errors in HOLYSMOKE. There are several highly knowledgeable people in HOLYSMOKE who can and do refute Creationists claims. Now if the Creationists would just shut up long enough to listen . . . . Q: Are there any Satanists here? A: None that I know of. The best estimate of the number of Satanists in America is from 4,000 to 5,000 individuals ("Satan Wants You," by Arthur Lyons), so the odds of one showing up is rather slim. Many of us wish one or more would! If you are a Satanist, please stop by and say "Hello---" we want to crucify you! (You know you want to!) Q: Why don't you pick on Satanists like you pick on Christians and Muslims? A: For a couple of reasons. First off, we only "pick on" someone who makes irrational and absurd claims while expecting us to believe them-- we've yet to have a Satanist come along and do so. Second, and more importantly, it is Christians who are subverting our secular nation through political means, not Satanists (how many Satanists sue the State so they may lead students in prayer?). Q: Why do you hate God / Jesus? A: Have you stopped beating your spouse? Do not make the mistake of believing that attacks on stupidity is equal to an attack on a god just because the person making the silly claim asserts he's speaking for his god. In the three years I've read HOLYSMOKE I have yet to see a single person hate God or Jesus-- just those who claim to be these gods followers. Many Christians commit crimes in the name of their gods-- we don't blame their gods: we blame the criminals. Q: Are "flames" allowed? A: Flames are EXPECTED. You will be treated with respect and courtesy if you extend it. The most valuable contributors, who provide references to what they say, are very seldom flamed-- if you don't like flames, stick to posting what you know or can validate. Saying "Because I say so" or "Because I was told so" won't earn you much respect. It WILL get you VERY well-toasted. Q: Will "Argument by authority" get me flamed? A: Depends on the authority, and if you keep all quotes in context and content. Claiming that several bright people support your assertions therefore your assertions are true DOES NOT make it so. Don't quote an astronomer on issues of biology, and a biologist on cosmology-- which is standard Creationist tactics-- because you will get roasted. Saying "Einstein believed in God (he didn't) therefore you should" will also get you roasted-- bright people CAN and DO believe silly things; just because someone is well educated in one field does not make hir an expert in other fields. Q: Does- poor spelling get flamed? A: Often we see theists who mix up "Their, there, and they're," "Too, to, and two," "atheist" as "athiest," and "your" for "you're." They then in that very same message proclaim to reveal the secrets of God, the Universe, Life and all the Really Great Questions humans have pondered for a dozen millennia-- somehow a crappy speller telling us they know what no one else does just doesn't seem likely. If one does not know the difference between "Their" and "they're" worth a Goat Belch, isn't it rather PRETENTIOUS for one to be telling us all about how much one knows about god and the universe?! Q: What is / are the Dopefish mysteries? A: "Swim. . . swim. . . hungry. . . swim. . . swim. . . hungry." The rest is a secret, to be revealed to all shortly. Talk to the Chief Proselytizer, Steve Quarrella, for all of the facts of this Up And Coming Soon To Your Door religion. Q: "What's wrong with Fundies?" Bruce Kazee A1: "Not a thing. Unlike clay pigeons, they are capable of making amusing howls whilst being shot down. HolySmoke would not be a better place without them any more than a shooting gallery would be improved by removing all the little tin ducks." --Don Martin A2: "A more appropriate question would be 'What's right with fundies?'" --Marty Leipzig, keeper of the HOLYSMOKE Dyslexicon. Q: "Was the Necronomicon written in Damascus in 730 C.E. by Abdul Alhazred?" [Paraphrase Rick Vanderzwaag] A: "Howard Phillips Lovecraft invented Abdul Alhazred and the Necronomicon in 1921." [Paraphrase Hector Plasmic] Q: "Who the fuck are these idiots posting under 8 character hex names such as 3D145C81?" A: Certain people have taken to using one-use disposable handles to get around other's twitfilters. I use this technique to take pot-shots at fundies who may have twitted me in advance. C. J. Henshaw - Executive officer/Cosysadmin, TCS Concordia 1:250/820


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