[ref001] apologetics: DEBATE LOGS - 3/12/96 apologetics: DEBATE LOGS - 3/12/96 [01:10] Bea
apologetics: DEBATE LOGS - 3/12/96
apologetics: DEBATE LOGS - 3/12/96
[01:10] Bear (email@example.com) joined
[01:10] hey bear
[01:11] hello what's this all about
[01:11] phileo (firstname.lastname@example.org) joined
[01:11] bear well its like so
[01:11] apologetics is the defense of the Christian
Religion using Evidence and Reason
[01:12] hey phileo
[01:12] oh well this isn't my place then
[01:12] hello acolyte
[01:12] bear why?
[01:13] hello batteries
[01:13] well i was just looking around i'm pretty
new to this ... and i am an athiest
[01:13] It takes more faith to be an athiest
[01:14] why don't you believe in God Bear?
[01:14] amen paul
[01:14] paul. i have my beliefs and you have yours
[01:14] phileo. it's just my way
[01:14] What are your beliefs?
[01:15] faith in the wrong things that is
[01:15] paul. myself
[01:15] Your a god unto youself?
[01:15] athiest might not really be the best word
for me .
[01:15] I'm not down on you for your beliefs
Bear... we have all not believed before
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[01:16] paul. no i just believe in myself
[01:16] But do you provide the air that you
[01:16] Did you set the sun in the heavens
[01:16] We are dependent on all that God has
[01:16] phileo. i didn't think you were
[01:17] phileo. that's what you believe
[01:17] I agree, that's what I believe
[01:17] But only one belief can be true
[01:17] well this is where you should be
[01:17] phileo. for you
[01:18] Either there is a God or there isn't
[01:18] Cassidy_ (firstname.lastname@example.org)
[01:18] phileo. meaning what
[01:18] Aco...have you seen Bons picture?
[01:18] ex nihilo existence is highly improbable
[01:18] cassidy no why?
[01:18] Mode change '+o Cassidy_ ' by ApoloBotemail@example.com
[01:18] The nature of truth is that it cannot
be a contradition
[01:18] Either something is or is not TRUE
[01:18] i think thats the proper term
[01:18] Cassidy relic says hullo
[01:18] Bear so you are a relativist
[01:18] Aco...she had me goin for two hours
last niite with all these disclaimers about her pic
on her web-sight.......she is beautiful (if that's
[01:18] hello relic (I dont know him)
[01:18] Cassidy_ Relic=Nad
[01:18] hullo jako
[01:18] OH!!! :-)
[01:18] relic! did you name her that?
[01:18] phileo. true
[01:18] Well, Bear... either what we believe
is true, or it is not!
[01:19] phileo. I didn't say it wasn't true for
you it's just not true for me
[01:19] vistor: scroll up i did
[01:20] How is truth possible bear?
[01:20] Or there are many gods
[01:20] hello Ac
[01:20] Cassidy found a fiesty ACC guy on irc
[01:20] i don't want you guys to thnk i came here
to stir up trouble... I was just looking around
[01:20] cassidy ace-62
[01:20] where does he go?
[01:20] Well, we don't exactly get to pick and
choose what is true and what isn't
[01:20] cassidy parish in the midwest
[01:20] hmmmm...did he know his stuff?
[01:20] cassiy yeah
[01:20] cassidy real kick-butt kinda attitude
[01:20] Phileo true
[01:21] paul. it depends on who you are
[01:21] <^aa^> BBL
[01:21] There is absolute truth
[01:21] bear...perhaps what you believe is
false for you, true?
[01:21] major lag tonight
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[01:21] bear thats kewl
[01:21] We are hear to discuss and debate such
things for the growth of the Church
[01:21] bear we can tell ;)
[01:21] not on my server...
[01:21] Action: Acolyte notes that Reality is not a
[01:21] amen Paul
[01:21] Action: Acolyte notes the non-democratic properties
[01:21] OUCH!! that hurt!
[01:21] paul here here!
[01:22] paul: and here
[01:22] cassidy. you might believe so but i don't.
just like what you believe may be false for you
[01:22] I am so luck to be alive
[01:22] lucky, if you believe in such things,
(and I dont)
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[01:23] Can you prove it bear?
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[01:23] can you disprove it
[01:23] Im not the one making the claim you are
[01:23] is 1 = 1 right or wrong?
[01:23] Paul very good
[01:23] If you cant agree that the Truth
is absolute and not relative, theres not much point
in going further.
[01:23] actually cassidy first made the claim
[01:23] Action: Acolyte pins a medal on Paul
[01:23] bear...tell me...can everything that
posesses a truth value be true for one person and false
[01:23] Why LOn?
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[01:24] I agree amigo
[01:24] it might
[01:24] hullo merrin
[01:24] bear it might?
[01:24] bear and aliens MIGHt love grilled
cheese sandwiches too, SO?
[01:24] bear...what claim? Im willing to defend
[01:24] but if you say that the truth is relative
and not absolute, there is absolutely no basis for
science, math, philosophy or logic
[01:24] kinda shoot yourself in the foot
[01:24] yes... the people that followed jim jones
thought that was true
[01:25] phileao kinda?
[01:25] bear but was it true?
[01:25] even in math you have to agree on
founding principles before you can go on
[01:25] for them it was to the rest of the people
no it was not
[01:25] Gotta hole in my foot to prove it
[01:25] bear is it true that the people that
folloed Jim jones though it was true?
[01:25] (by the way, that was not true, the
[01:25] phileo hehhe
[01:25] it must be or they would still be alive
[01:26] bea oh no it is only true for you.
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[01:26] take care folks, i gotta go
[01:26] se ya amigo
[01:26] see ya
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[01:27] philoe not bad
[01:27] If I say that the answer on question
1 of my midterm is true, and my professor says it is
false, I am wrong
[01:27] Because it cannot be both
[01:28] it must be one or the other
[01:28] yes i understand that
[01:28] there is no such thing as something
being something it is not
[01:28] but some things can be true for some people
but not true for others
[01:29] the word you are using for true is not
the true meaning of the word.
[01:29] perhaps a word other than true would
[01:29] oh yes there is.... for me pizza could
be the best food in the world for me and that would
be true... but it might be false for you or someone
[01:29] bear...thats obvious...like if I have
an alergy to grass and you dont, its true I will geet
a rash and its false you will get a rash. Like that?
[01:29] not gravity
[01:29] not mathematics
[01:29] not breathing
[01:29] cassidy. exactly
[01:30] judith oh sure it is ;)
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[01:30] not many many many many things
[01:30] That is not a statment of preference
having nothing to do with the nature of pizza
[01:30] judith try if I cover your mouth/nose
if Ithink you are breathing, sure you are ;)
[01:30] hey flant
[01:30] which I believe to be quite tasty
[01:31] if i think it's ok to go bash babies
agasint trees is it ok for me to do?
[01:31] i agree that somethings there is definately
a line of true and false
[01:31] well, bear...I dont think anyone here
will disagree with that!!! Thats obvious...but the
other examples I've seen given will leead you into
absurdity if you deny there universal truth!!!
[01:31] were do you draw the line?
[01:31] Judith!!! :-)
[01:31] bear, now there ARE absolutes?
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[01:32] what's ok for me is not ok really?
[01:32] And that is what we are talking about...
Either there is a Supernatural God who created everything
or there is not!
[01:32] both cannot be true!
[01:32] Good point Judith
[01:32] judith. not for me or anyone else with
morals. can you guys slow down a little : )
[01:32] hey poascoe
[01:32] hello Acolyte. 8)
[01:32] no matter how much I believe something,
that doesn't make it true if it is not
[01:32] phileo: right.
[01:32] but it's ok for someone without morals
[01:33] pascoe just wanted to let you know
that I have not had a chyance to look that ref up ye
cause 1. I am still at my old place, and all my bks
are at my new place. and 2 I have not finished moving
[01:33] and then if it's ok for them, there
should be no punishment if they do it/
[01:33] pascoe but give me a day or two and
I will lokk ok?
[01:33] Acolyte: understood. just let me know.
[01:35] bear...if you really look at the subject,
you must concede. You cant even set out such a position
without violating it! think about it. "there are no
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[01:35] no i think that it's wrong for anyone
[01:35] Aco: I'm on the chanel arent I? hehehe
[01:35] phileo. if someone wants to disbelieve
in god and they are happy what;s the big deal
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[01:36] yeah but you ain't doin' nothin'!!!!!!!!!!
[01:36] it's not ok
[01:36] achimoth :P~
[01:36] sorry, we got a revolt on #bible..
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[01:36] achimoth all the more reason to be
[01:36] Action: pascoe concurs with Achimoth.
[01:36] judith. was it all right for christians
to slaughter innocent american indians because they
would not give up thier religious beliefs
[01:36] bear why is it wrong?
[01:36] ANybody can calim to be christain
[01:36] hey miche
[01:36] whats up?
[01:36] hullo milhous
[01:36] Bear - If someone wants to raft down
Niagra falls, and they are happy with it , what's the
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[01:36] I still don't understand the necessity
of this 'God' person
[01:36] no bear, it wasn't
[01:36] God allows men to disbelieve, but we
believe there are eternal consequences and don't wish
that anyone would see hell
[01:36] bear what are you talking about?
[01:36] and it was not ok for the indians to
slaughter entire settler villages either
[01:36] should there have been a pusnishment for
[01:37] Milhous real simple, No God=No Ethics
[01:37] bear there was
[01:37] Milhous make sense?
[01:37] Acolyte: Hi, just hangin out. :)
[01:37] cassidy. what subject
[01:37] Paul very true
[01:38] hmmm lag
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irc: Read error to Acolyte[delta1.deltanet.com]: EOF
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Read error to Milhous[126.96.36.199]: Connection
reset by peer
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[01:39] Nick change: Aco -> Acolyte
[01:40] Awful quiet all of a sudden
[01:40] re's Acolyte
[01:40] WHY DO PEOPLE INSISt THERE IS A GOD?
[01:40] judith. i agree with that so what are
you saying that was revenge. isn't that a sin besides
what would you do if someone moved into your house
and started eating up all your food
[01:40] Milhouse No God=NO Ethics
[01:40] Milhouse No God=NO Ethics
[01:40] Milhous - why do people insist there
[01:40] Mode change '+o Acolyte ' by ApoloBotfirstname.lastname@example.org
[01:40] People don't insist, God insist's
[01:40] There is a God because nature Points to
[01:40] server normon.ok.us.undernet.org
[01:41] I didn't want to insist there was a
God before I got saved, only after
[01:41] Without God, anything is permitted.
[01:41] he uses me to insist such things
[01:41] Kinda rude of people to tell God he
[01:42] Ethics, shmethics.
[01:42] well i'm gonna go it was nice talking
to you... and i'm sorry i didn't get to answer all
of the questions but they were coming pretty fast.
[01:42] milhouse tell that to the Jews, 6 million
[01:42] Altruistic instinct.
[01:42] milhous ever see Schinlder's List?
[01:42] What about evolution?
[01:42] Acolyte: your point?
[01:42] Milhouse NAturalism=Ethical Nihilism
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[01:43] Milhouse - Aint no such thing as altruistic
[01:43] Milhouse Evoltution does not tell you
what you OUGHT to do, it only describes what you do
[01:43] And evolution is blind and amoral.
[01:43] Acolyte: Ethical Nihilism=Extinction.
[01:43] Lack of ethics is maladaptive.
[01:43] Evolution is on the down fall
[01:43] Not necessarily.
[01:43] Milous how do you know?
[01:44] milhous what are ethics in naturalism
other than chemicals?
[01:44] Do any animals steal from their own
kind, as a whole?
[01:44] Paul naturalism is, not evolution
[01:44] milhous some do
[01:44] Milhous - YES
[01:44] milhous even if they did, it would
only be a description of a state of nature, not what
one should do
[01:44] Ever watch two dogs?
[01:45] Just because it refers to a God doesnt
mean it can't be true: 'A house divided can not stand'
[01:45] milhous some animals eat their own
[01:45] Milhous what do you mean?
[01:45] karen-2: Ever see a mother dog and
[01:45] Milhous in naturalism all you have
are chemical states, not obligation
[01:45] Evolution is emped in naturalism
[01:45] Milhous - I babysat my daughter's dogs
last week. Pal kept stealing all the rawhide bones
and sitting on them.
[01:45] acolyte: Their own young? Like what,
[01:45] milhouse yeah, my dog ate 2 of her
[01:45] milhouse dogs and cats
[01:46] milhouse very well documented
[01:46] they do it at times
[01:46] Jerash (tknterry@pool037.Max5.Chicago.IL.DYNIP.ALTER.NET)
[01:46] milhouse mice do it too