[ref001] apologetics: DEBATE LOGS - 3/12/96 apologetics: DEBATE LOGS - 3/12/96 [01:10] Bea
[ref001]
apologetics: DEBATE LOGS - 3/12/96
apologetics: DEBATE LOGS - 3/12/96
[01:10] Bear (goau@bryn1-cs-1.dial.bright.net) joined
#Apologetics.
[01:10] hey bear
[01:11] hello what's this all about
[01:11] phileo (phileo@os-ppp14.datasync.com) joined
#apologetics.
[01:11] bear well its like so
[01:11] apologetics is the defense of the Christian
Religion using Evidence and Reason
[01:12] Amen
[01:12] hey phileo
[01:12] oh well this isn't my place then
[01:12] hello acolyte
[01:12] bear why?
[01:13] hello batteries
[01:13] well i was just looking around i'm pretty
new to this ... and i am an athiest
[01:13] It takes more faith to be an athiest
[01:14] why don't you believe in God Bear?
[01:14] amen paul
[01:14] paul. i have my beliefs and you have yours
[01:14] phileo. it's just my way
[01:14] What are your beliefs?
[01:15] faith in the wrong things that is
[01:15] paul. myself
[01:15] Your a god unto youself?
[01:15] athiest might not really be the best word
for me .
[01:15] I'm not down on you for your beliefs
Bear... we have all not believed before
[01:16] jako (yoyo@204.50.229.75) joined #apologetics.
[01:16] paul. no i just believe in myself
[01:16] But do you provide the air that you
breath>
[01:16] Did you set the sun in the heavens
[01:16] We are dependent on all that God has
provided us
[01:16] phileo. i didn't think you were
[01:17] phileo. that's what you believe
[01:17] I agree, that's what I believe
[01:17] But only one belief can be true
[01:17] well this is where you should be
[01:17] phileo. for you
[01:18] Either there is a God or there isn't
[01:18] yep...
[01:18] Cassidy_ (cassidy7@irv-ca13-21.ix.netcom.com)
joined #apologetics.
[01:18] phileo. meaning what
[01:18] Aco...have you seen Bons picture?
[01:18] ex nihilo existence is highly improbable
occurence
[01:18] cassidy no why?
[01:18] Mode change '+o Cassidy_ ' by ApoloBot!bibleman@xlab1.fiu.edu
[01:18] The nature of truth is that it cannot
be a contradition
[01:18] Either something is or is not TRUE
[01:18] i think thats the proper term
[01:18] Cassidy relic says hullo
[01:18] Bear so you are a relativist
[01:18] Aco...she had me goin for two hours
last niite with all these disclaimers about her pic
on her web-sight.......she is beautiful (if that's
truly her).
[01:18] hello relic (I dont know him)
[01:18] Cassidy_ Relic=Nad
[01:18] hullo jako
[01:18] OH!!! :-)
[01:18] relic! did you name her that?
[01:18] phileo. true
[01:18] Well, Bear... either what we believe
is true, or it is not!
[01:19] phileo. I didn't say it wasn't true for
you it's just not true for me
[01:19] vistor: scroll up i did
[01:19] oops
[01:20] How is truth possible bear?
[01:20] Or there are many gods
[01:20] hello Ac
[01:20] Cassidy found a fiesty ACC guy on irc
last night
[01:20] Aco...who?
[01:20] i don't want you guys to thnk i came here
to stir up trouble... I was just looking around
[01:20] cassidy ace-62
[01:20] where does he go?
[01:20] Well, we don't exactly get to pick and
choose what is true and what isn't
[01:20] cassidy parish in the midwest
[01:20] hmmmm...did he know his stuff?
[01:20] cassiy yeah
[01:20] cassidy real kick-butt kinda attitude
[01:20] Phileo true
[01:20] heh
[01:20] really.
[01:21] paul. it depends on who you are
[01:21] <^aa^> BBL
[01:21] There is absolute truth
[01:21] bear...perhaps what you believe is
false for you, true?
[01:21] major lag tonight
[01:21] ^aa^ (tm125@dialup02.geko.net.au) left #Apologetics.
[01:21] bear thats kewl
[01:21] We are hear to discuss and debate such
things for the growth of the Church
[01:21] bear we can tell ;)
[01:21] not on my server...
[01:21] Action: Acolyte notes that Reality is not a
Democracy
[01:21] amen Paul
[01:21] Action: Acolyte notes the non-democratic properties
of Gravity
[01:21] OUCH!! that hurt!
[01:21] heheh
[01:21] paul here here!
[01:22] paul: and here
[01:22] cassidy. you might believe so but i don't.
just like what you believe may be false for you
[01:22] I am so luck to be alive
[01:22] lucky, if you believe in such things,
(and I dont)
[01:23] Dizi (cysmic@cysmic.u-net.com) left #Apologetics.
[01:23] Can you prove it bear?
[01:23] Xristian (Micah@ppp137.ihug.co.nz) left #apologetics.
[01:23] can you disprove it
[01:23] Im not the one making the claim you are
[01:23] is 1 = 1 right or wrong?
[01:23] Paul very good
[01:23] If you cant agree that the Truth
is absolute and not relative, theres not much point
in going further.
[01:23] actually cassidy first made the claim
[01:23] Action: Acolyte pins a medal on Paul
[01:23] bear...tell me...can everything that
posesses a truth value be true for one person and false
for another?
[01:23] Why LOn?
[01:23] Merrin (exxcella@aladdin.bc.ca) joined #Apologetics.
[01:24] I agree amigo
[01:24] hello
[01:24] it might
[01:24] hullo merrin
[01:24] bear it might?
[01:24] bear and aliens MIGHt love grilled
cheese sandwiches too, SO?
[01:24] bear...what claim? Im willing to defend
it.
[01:24] but if you say that the truth is relative
and not absolute, there is absolutely no basis for
science, math, philosophy or logic
[01:24] kinda shoot yourself in the foot
[01:24] yes... the people that followed jim jones
thought that was true
[01:25] phileao kinda?
[01:25] bear but was it true?
[01:25] even in math you have to agree on
founding principles before you can go on
[01:25] for them it was to the rest of the people
no it was not
[01:25] Gotta hole in my foot to prove it
[01:25] bear is it true that the people that
folloed Jim jones though it was true?
[01:25] (by the way, that was not true, the
hole part)
[01:25] phileo hehhe
[01:25] it must be or they would still be alive
[01:26] bea oh no it is only true for you.
[01:26] what
[01:26] jako (yoyo@204.50.229.75) left irc: Ping timeout
for jako[204.50.229.75]
[01:26] Merrin (exxcella@aladdin.bc.ca) left #Apologetics.
[01:26] take care folks, i gotta go
[01:26] se ya amigo
[01:26] see ya
[01:26] Lon_Amigo (Mike@ppp-2.ts-5.la.idt.net) left
#apologetics.
[01:27] philoe not bad
[01:27] If I say that the answer on question
1 of my midterm is true, and my professor says it is
false, I am wrong
[01:27] Because it cannot be both
[01:28] it must be one or the other
[01:28] yes i understand that
[01:28] there is no such thing as something
being something it is not
[01:28] but some things can be true for some people
but not true for others
[01:29] the word you are using for true is not
the true meaning of the word.
[01:29] perhaps a word other than true would
be better
[01:29] oh yes there is.... for me pizza could
be the best food in the world for me and that would
be true... but it might be false for you or someone
else
[01:29] bear...thats obvious...like if I have
an alergy to grass and you dont, its true I will geet
a rash and its false you will get a rash. Like that?
[01:29] not gravity
[01:29] not mathematics
[01:29] not breathing
[01:29] cassidy. exactly
[01:30] judith oh sure it is ;)
[01:30] judith...right!
[01:30] flant (blairej@143.207.68.54) joined #apologetics.
[01:30] not many many many many things
[01:30] That is not a statment of preference
having nothing to do with the nature of pizza
[01:30] judith try if I cover your mouth/nose
if Ithink you are breathing, sure you are ;)
[01:30] hey flant
[01:30] which I believe to be quite tasty
[01:31] if i think it's ok to go bash babies
agasint trees is it ok for me to do?
[01:31] i agree that somethings there is definately
a line of true and false
[01:31] well, bear...I dont think anyone here
will disagree with that!!! Thats obvious...but the
other examples I've seen given will leead you into
absurdity if you deny there universal truth!!!
[01:31] were do you draw the line?
[01:31] Judith!!! :-)
[01:31] bear, now there ARE absolutes?
[01:32] pascoe (pasc8891@xslip07.csrv.uidaho.edu) joined
#apologetics.
[01:32] what's ok for me is not ok really?
[01:32] And that is what we are talking about...
Either there is a Supernatural God who created everything
or there is not!
[01:32] both cannot be true!
[01:32] Good point Judith
[01:32] judith. not for me or anyone else with
morals. can you guys slow down a little : )
[01:32] hey poascoe
[01:32] hello Acolyte. 8)
[01:32] no matter how much I believe something,
that doesn't make it true if it is not
[01:32] phileo: right.
[01:32] but it's ok for someone without morals
to do?
[01:33] pascoe just wanted to let you know
that I have not had a chyance to look that ref up ye
cause 1. I am still at my old place, and all my bks
are at my new place. and 2 I have not finished moving
[01:33] and then if it's ok for them, there
should be no punishment if they do it/
[01:33] pascoe but give me a day or two and
I will lokk ok?
[01:33] Acolyte: understood. just let me know.
8)
[01:35] bear...if you really look at the subject,
you must concede. You cant even set out such a position
without violating it! think about it. "there are no
absolutes" see?
[01:35] jako (yoyo@204.50.229.75) joined #apologetics.
[01:35] no i think that it's wrong for anyone
to do
[01:35] Aco: I'm on the chanel arent I? hehehe
[01:35] phileo. if someone wants to disbelieve
in god and they are happy what;s the big deal
[01:36] miche (mspring@206.21.85.39) joined #apologetics.
[01:36] yeah but you ain't doin' nothin'!!!!!!!!!!
[01:36] it's not ok
[01:36] achimoth :P~
[01:36] sorry, we got a revolt on #bible..
heh
[01:36] Milhous (hlm3mr@199.218.197.248) joined #apologetics.
[01:36] achimoth all the more reason to be
here
[01:36] Action: pascoe concurs with Achimoth.
[01:36] >:>
[01:36] judith. was it all right for christians
to slaughter innocent american indians because they
would not give up thier religious beliefs
[01:36] bear why is it wrong?
[01:36] ANybody can calim to be christain
[01:36] hey miche
[01:36] whats up?
[01:36] hullo milhous
[01:36] Bear - If someone wants to raft down
Niagra falls, and they are happy with it , what's the
big deal?
[01:36] ^aa^ (tm125@dialup02.geko.net.au) joined #Apologetics.
[01:36] I still don't understand the necessity
of this 'God' person
[01:36] no bear, it wasn't
[01:36] God allows men to disbelieve, but we
believe there are eternal consequences and don't wish
that anyone would see hell
[01:36] bear what are you talking about?
[01:36] and it was not ok for the indians to
slaughter entire settler villages either
[01:36] should there have been a pusnishment for
that
[01:37] Milhous real simple, No God=No Ethics
[01:37] bear there was
[01:37] Milhous make sense?
[01:37] Acolyte: Hi, just hangin out. :)
[01:37] cassidy. what subject
[01:37] Paul very true
[01:38] hmmm lag
[01:38] brb
[01:38] Acolyte (st_aidan@delta1.deltanet.com) left
irc: Read error to Acolyte[delta1.deltanet.com]: EOF
from client
[01:38] Milhous (hlm3mr@199.218.197.248) left irc:
Read error to Milhous[199.218.197.248]: Connection
reset by peer
[01:38] pascoe (pasc8891@xslip07.csrv.uidaho.edu) left
#apologetics.
[01:38] Milhous (hlm3mr@199.218.197.248) joined #apologetics.
[01:39] Judith_ (Sandra@dial113.skypoint.net) left
#apologetics.
[01:39] Aco (st_aidan@delta1.deltanet.com) joined #apologetics.
[01:39] Nick change: Aco -> Acolyte
[01:39] hmmm
[01:40] Awful quiet all of a sudden
[01:40] re's Acolyte
[01:40] WHY DO PEOPLE INSISt THERE IS A GOD?
[01:40] judith. i agree with that so what are
you saying that was revenge. isn't that a sin besides
what would you do if someone moved into your house
and started eating up all your food
[01:40] lag
[01:40] Milhouse No God=NO Ethics
[01:40] Milhouse No God=NO Ethics
[01:40] Milhous - why do people insist there
ISN'T one?
[01:40] Mode change '+o Acolyte ' by ApoloBot!bibleman@xlab1.fiu.edu
[01:40] People don't insist, God insist's
[01:40] There is a God because nature Points to
a God
[01:40] server normon.ok.us.undernet.org
[01:41] ack
[01:41] I didn't want to insist there was a
God before I got saved, only after
[01:41] Without God, anything is permitted.
[01:41] he uses me to insist such things
[01:41] Kinda rude of people to tell God he
doesn't exist.
[01:42] .
[01:42] Ethics, shmethics.
[01:42] well i'm gonna go it was nice talking
to you... and i'm sorry i didn't get to answer all
of the questions but they were coming pretty fast.
: )
[01:42] milhouse tell that to the Jews, 6 million
of jthem
[01:42] Altruistic instinct.
[01:42] Evolution.
[01:42] milhous ever see Schinlder's List?
[01:42] What about evolution?
[01:42] Acolyte: your point?
[01:42] Milhouse NAturalism=Ethical Nihilism
[01:43] Bear (goau@bryn1-cs-1.dial.bright.net) left
#Apologetics.
[01:43] miche (mspring@206.21.85.39) left #apologetics.
[01:43] Milhouse - Aint no such thing as altruistic
instinct
[01:43] Milhouse Evoltution does not tell you
what you OUGHT to do, it only describes what you do
do
[01:43] And evolution is blind and amoral.
[01:43] Acolyte: Ethical Nihilism=Extinction.
[01:43] Lack of ethics is maladaptive.
[01:43] Evolution is on the down fall
[01:43] Not necessarily.
[01:43] Milous how do you know?
[01:44] milhous what are ethics in naturalism
other than chemicals?
[01:44] Do any animals steal from their own
kind, as a whole?
[01:44] Paul naturalism is, not evolution
[01:44] milhous some do
[01:44] Milhous - YES
[01:44] milhous even if they did, it would
only be a description of a state of nature, not what
one should do
[01:44] Ever watch two dogs?
[01:45] Just because it refers to a God doesnt
mean it can't be true: 'A house divided can not stand'
[01:45] milhous some animals eat their own
young
[01:45] Milhous what do you mean?
[01:45] karen-2: Ever see a mother dog and
her pups?
[01:45] Milhous in naturalism all you have
are chemical states, not obligation
[01:45] Evolution is emped in naturalism
[01:45] Milhous - I babysat my daughter's dogs
last week. Pal kept stealing all the rawhide bones
and sitting on them.
[01:45] acolyte: Their own young? Like what,
for instance?
[01:45] milhouse yeah, my dog ate 2 of her
pups, SO?
[01:45] milhouse dogs and cats
[01:46] milhouse very well documented
[01:46] they do it at times
[01:46] Hm.
[01:46] Jerash (tknterry@pool037.Max5.Chicago.IL.DYNIP.ALTER.NET)
joined #Apologetics.
[01:46] |