To: Max Borisoff Re: WHAT CULTS DO NOT ALLO > You have raised the correct question. Under

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From: Janardana Dasa on 1:129/34 To: Max Borisoff Re: WHAT CULTS DO NOT ALLO > You have raised the correct question. Under the democracy > You are 'allowed' to become a Hare Krisna; but once You have > become a Hare Krsna, what are You allowed? Thank you for responding. Under this democracy, I am allowed to become a Hare Krishna, at least for the time being. Groups like Cult Awareness Network (CAN), however, do not even hide the fact that they intend to push for amendments to the first amendment, so this right, if they are successful (which I doubt they will ever be) is not absolute. > If I had ever met a person whose mind was 'slammed shut', he > was that man. He was in a severe psychotic phase, mumbling > constantly - Hare.. Hare.. His speach was incoherent, and I > don't mean fanatic, I mean incoherent.. There was no person, > or individual to relate to 'at home'. He was not only brain-washed, > but truly 'brain-drowned', dead.. Okay, let's assume your analysis of this guy is correct. I have heard of such, devotees "blissing-out", and I have heard of devotees killing themselves, or trying to, for a number of reasons, usually having to deal with guilt. But how many? Of the many thousands who have, in the West, taken to Krishna consciousness, I can think of only a few such instances. So say this guy was in the state you describe. How can any rational person automatically attribute this to the religion rather than the person himself? I am not hungry. I do not babble. I don't know of any babbling devotees (well, maybe one, but not incoherently), and I don't know of any hospitalized for self-induced (or otherwise) starvation. If this were characteristic of Hare Krishna devotees, geez, don't you think the hospitals would be filled with them? Don't you think the newspapers would be telling of the conditions? A small salmonella outbreak occurs in Pekin, Illinois and it's national news. > Yes, there is nothing to stop You from becoming a Hare Krnsa, > but once You are 'brain-washed', you are no longer there to make > any other choices.. If this what 'devotee' is, who needs it. God > made man so free, that we can deny even His Existence, who does > have a right to rob us from this 'freedom'! > No one has the right to rob us of that freedom. I am very much against atheism, for example, but I'll most certainly defend their right to choose whatever beliefs they settle upon. So, I'm brainwashed? Amazing! I wonder if my girlfriend, or mother and father know (y'know, I live in their house, they should probably be notified). I work 12 hours a day downtown, I wonder if my boss knows I'm brain-dead. Geez, maybe I'd better not tell him or he'll take back my raise! Oh my Gosh! For Criminy Sakes! I interract with people all day! Maybe I should wear a sign and tell them all I'm not responsible for my deeds or words since my guru controls my mind? Naw, I should just follow suit I guess and starve myself to death, babble incoherently, just to let everyone know I'm a Hare Krishna. Is that what you expect? Have a nice day. PS: Of Hare Krishna's in the professional world, the majority are surgeons and doctors of other sorts. Better watch out. You may be in a dentist's chair, and as the drill is going in, Dr. Krishna Das might go into a starving, babbling "brainwashed" fit and "Clank!", there goes a tooth!) From: Janardana Dasa on 1:129/34 To: Max Borisoff Re: CULT LEADERS > + Praise the Lord! + + Yes, Chant Hare Krishna! + > One thing that You seem to overlook about the cults is that > at the center of most of them there is a power-structure, and > a 'cult-leader'. There is a total absence of 'freedom' as we > recognize it in democracy. Almost all cults are 'counter > cultural' , which separates an individual from a larger mass > of other individuals, making him vulnerable to the domminant > personalities in the cult. There is very little creativity > there, and children educated within cults ('Hare Krisna in > one case) scored lower on IQ 'learning-curve'. Nor is there > any 'alternative life-style experience'. Doing things only one > way, does not offer any 'alternatives'. So we can not say that > 'cults' offer anything but emotional, psychological, and spiritual > slavery. You know, I was going to ignore this one, til I saw your post directed to me later. You throw alot of sweeping generalizations out here that, at least some I KNOW you cannot substantiate, ESPECIALLY the one about Krishna children. Provide us DATA, FACTS, SOURCES on that one, please... 60 MINUTES did a segment on Krishna children a number of years ago and concluded that they were far BEYOND the children of their age and grade group in school levels. TIME Magazine, ditto The US Department of Health, Education and Welfare, ditto. The State of Pennsylvania, in certifying the Krishna school at Port Royal, PA, had to ask the school to take the tests a second time, because they couldn't believe that ALL of the children scored so highly, on average two years ahead of State standards. Even my enemies in Cult Awareness Network, as slick and slippery as they can be, have never said what you've said, because they know the data, the facts, prove otherwise. ANYONE WANTING DOCUMENTATION FROM NON-HARE KRISHNA SOURCES, meaning public reports, newspapers, etc., please contact me and I'll be very happy to send them. Hare Krishna's have always been very happy to boast about the childrens' academic levels. Thank you.

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