From: Janardana Dasa on 1:129/34
To: Max Borisoff
Re: WHAT CULTS DO NOT ALLO
> You have raised the correct question. Under the democracy
> You are 'allowed' to become a Hare Krisna; but once You have
> become a Hare Krsna, what are You allowed?
Thank you for responding. Under this democracy, I am allowed to become
a Hare Krishna, at least for the time being. Groups like Cult
Awareness Network (CAN), however, do not even hide the fact that they
intend to push for amendments to the first amendment, so this right, if
they are successful (which I doubt they will ever be) is not absolute.
> If I had ever met a person whose mind was 'slammed shut', he
> was that man. He was in a severe psychotic phase, mumbling
> constantly - Hare.. Hare.. His speach was incoherent, and I
> don't mean fanatic, I mean incoherent.. There was no person,
> or individual to relate to 'at home'. He was not only brain-washed,
> but truly 'brain-drowned', dead..
Okay, let's assume your analysis of this guy is correct. I have heard
of such, devotees "blissing-out", and I have heard of devotees killing
themselves, or trying to, for a number of reasons, usually having to
deal with guilt. But how many? Of the many thousands who have, in the
West, taken to Krishna consciousness, I can think of only a few such
instances. So say this guy was in the state you describe. How can any
rational person automatically attribute this to the religion rather
than the person himself? I am not hungry. I do not babble. I don't
know of any babbling devotees (well, maybe one, but not incoherently),
and I don't know of any hospitalized for self-induced (or otherwise)
starvation. If this were characteristic of Hare Krishna devotees,
geez, don't you think the hospitals would be filled with them? Don't
you think the newspapers would be telling of the conditions? A small
salmonella outbreak occurs in Pekin, Illinois and it's national news.
> Yes, there is nothing to stop You from becoming a Hare Krnsa,
> but once You are 'brain-washed', you are no longer there to make
> any other choices.. If this what 'devotee' is, who needs it. God
> made man so free, that we can deny even His Existence, who does
> have a right to rob us from this 'freedom'!
No one has the right to rob us of that freedom. I am very much against
atheism, for example, but I'll most certainly defend their right to
choose whatever beliefs they settle upon.
So, I'm brainwashed? Amazing! I wonder if my girlfriend, or mother
and father know (y'know, I live in their house, they should probably be
notified). I work 12 hours a day downtown, I wonder if my boss knows
I'm brain-dead. Geez, maybe I'd better not tell him or he'll take back
my raise! Oh my Gosh! For Criminy Sakes! I interract with people all
day! Maybe I should wear a sign and tell them all I'm not responsible
for my deeds or words since my guru controls my mind? Naw, I should
just follow suit I guess and starve myself to death, babble
incoherently, just to let everyone know I'm a Hare Krishna. Is that
what you expect?
Have a nice day.
PS: Of Hare Krishna's in the professional world, the majority are
surgeons and doctors of other sorts. Better watch out. You may be in a
dentist's chair, and as the drill is going in, Dr. Krishna Das might go
into a starving, babbling "brainwashed" fit and "Clank!", there goes a
From: Janardana Dasa on 1:129/34
To: Max Borisoff
Re: CULT LEADERS
> + Praise the Lord! +
+ Yes, Chant Hare Krishna! +
> One thing that You seem to overlook about the cults is that
> at the center of most of them there is a power-structure, and
> a 'cult-leader'. There is a total absence of 'freedom' as we
> recognize it in democracy. Almost all cults are 'counter
> cultural' , which separates an individual from a larger mass
> of other individuals, making him vulnerable to the domminant
> personalities in the cult. There is very little creativity
> there, and children educated within cults ('Hare Krisna in
> one case) scored lower on IQ 'learning-curve'. Nor is there
> any 'alternative life-style experience'. Doing things only one
> way, does not offer any 'alternatives'. So we can not say that
> 'cults' offer anything but emotional, psychological, and spiritual
You know, I was going to ignore this one, til I saw your post directed
to me later.
You throw alot of sweeping generalizations out here that, at least some
I KNOW you cannot substantiate, ESPECIALLY the one about Krishna
children. Provide us DATA, FACTS, SOURCES on that one, please...
60 MINUTES did a segment on Krishna children a number of years ago and
concluded that they were far BEYOND the children of their age and grade
group in school levels.
TIME Magazine, ditto
The US Department of Health, Education and Welfare, ditto.
The State of Pennsylvania, in certifying the Krishna school at Port
Royal, PA, had to ask the school to take the tests a second time,
because they couldn't believe that ALL of the children scored so
highly, on average two years ahead of State standards.
Even my enemies in Cult Awareness Network, as slick and slippery as
they can be, have never said what you've said, because they know the
data, the facts, prove otherwise.
ANYONE WANTING DOCUMENTATION FROM NON-HARE KRISHNA SOURCES, meaning
public reports, newspapers, etc., please contact me and I'll be very
happy to send them. Hare Krishna's have always been very happy to
boast about the childrens' academic levels.