Xref: helios.physics.utoronto.ca rec.martial-arts:76323 rec.answers:7407 news.answers:2940

---
Master Index Current Directory Index Go to SkepticTank Go to Human Rights activist Keith Henson Go to Scientology cult

Skeptic Tank!

Xref: helios.physics.utoronto.ca rec.martial-arts:76323 rec.answers:7407 news.answers:29405 Path: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!faqserv From: pals@ipact.com (Randy Pals) Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts,rec.answers,news.answers Subject: rec.martial-arts FAQ part 1 of 2 Supersedes: Followup-To: rec.martial-arts Date: 19 Sep 1994 03:41:38 GMT Organization: IPACT, Valparaiso IN Lines: 1166 Approved: news-answers-request@MIT.EDU Expires: 31 Oct 1994 03:40:54 GMT Message-ID: Reply-To: pals@ipact.com NNTP-Posting-Host: bloom-picayune.mit.edu Summary: General martial arts information X-Last-Updated: 1994/08/13 Originator: faqserv@bloom-picayune.MIT.EDU Archive-name: martial-arts/faq/part1 Last-modified: 01 August 1994 Posting-Frequency: monthly in *.answers, every two weeks in rec.martial-arts rec.martial-arts FAQ - Part 1 of 2 ================================== This FAQ is based on previous versions of the FAQ maintained by Izar Tarandach and Alex Jackl. The current maintainer of this FAQ is Randy Pals (pals@ipact.com). Work on this FAQ is ongoing. Comments and additional information are solicited. Archive-name at cs.huji.ac.il: martial-arts-faq Ftp-site: cs.huji.ac.il:/pub/doc/faq/rec/martial-arts URL: http://archie.ac.il:8001/files/CS-HUJI.html =============================================================================== Topics Contained in this FAQ ====== ========= == ==== === Part 1 of 2 1) Introduction. 2) What is a Martial Art? 3) What kind of Martial Arts are there? (the descriptions of the various arts are in section 16, which is in part 2.) 4) Which Martial Art should I study? 5) How do I choose a School? 6) (a) This guy says that his style will make a Full Certified Warrior & Killer out of me in 3 months- is it serious? (b) What do I do to become the deadliest person in the world ? 7) Should children study Martial Arts? 8) I believe/don't believe in X. Should I train Y? 9) Rankings/Color Belt Systems 10) What is Greenoch? 11) What is Ki/Qi/Chi? 12) Martial Arts Glossary 13) Bibliography 14) Sources of information a) non-electronic b) electronic 15) Sources of equipment and material. Part 2 of 2 16) What are the different Arts, Schools, Styles? 17) The people that made this list possible. =============================================================================== 1) Introduction This FAQ is not intended to be a Martial Arts Bible, but to give some help to those that are looking for a place to start, or those more experienced that would like to know more about some different style, have a particular doubt, etc. Please note that this is not the Absolute Truth(TM) but rather an attempt to give clear and basic information about this group and the martial arts. Your suggestions, opinions, and additions would be most welcome. Send e-mail to pals@ipact.com. Here are the items in the original rec.ma "charter" as they appeared in the request for discussion before the group was formed: 1) A new group proposal for the discussion of all aspects of the martial arts, both by martial arts practitioners and the general public interested in knowing more about the martial arts community. 2) Increasing public awareness of the commitment of martial artists to public service, for example the D.A.R.E. program, its use in rehabilitation of prisoners, recovering substance abuse users, rape prevention, and increased quality of life for the handicapped. 3) Personal experiences, anecdotes, myths, and folklore pertaining to the martial arts and information on the existance or location of a specific item, style, form, system. 4) Postings of events, competitions, demonstrations, and seminars. 5) ANY/ALL bigotry, grudge challenges must be E-mailed! Rank does not mean authority in rec.ma, for rank without wisdom means nothing. There may be wisdom in the words of a child, and even a 5th dan can be a fool. One more thing. Please don't post the question "What is the best martial art [for self-defense]?" (or similar) in rec.martial-arts. That question has become a chronic irritant in this group, and there is no simple answer to it; some would say it has no answer at all. There are reasonable procedures for how one should go about choosing an art/school here in the FAQ, and in another rec.martial-arts periodic post, the Newbie Guide. Read them first, then consult the group if you have more specific questions. ========================================================================== 2) What is a Martial Art? A Martial Art can be defined as a system of techniques, physical and mental exercises developed as an effective means for self-defense and offense, both unarmed and with the use of weapons. The origin and history of Martial Arts is a controversial issue. We can see signs of Martial Arts in Greek, Egyptian, African, Japanese, Chinese, Thai, as well as other cultures. There is a clear trail leading from the Southern China-regions up to Korea, Okinawa and Japan. The details before that, and the exact details of that transfer, are greatly debated by historians and Martial Artists. =============================================================================== 3) What kind of Martial Arts are there? There are many ways in which martial arts can be divided. Here are a few of them that might be useful to use in defining Martial Arts and discussing them. These are not necessarily consensus definitions but they are commonly held. It is also useful to remember that very few of these martial arts are just one way or another...they are all mixtures of these elements in various degrees. When we say a style is "hard" what we mean is that the predominant expression of that style is hard. If we say Shotokan is linear, it does not mean Shotokan has no circular techniques. "Sport" vs "Fighting Art" vs. "Exercise" vs. "Philosophy" These are usually NON-useful comparisons because people tend to be very strongly opinionated on this matter. Most people want to think their art is an ancient "fighting art" and can be applied thus on the street. Some styles truly are all four, and to some degree all styles contain all four elements. In discussions of a style it is most useful when people highlight which area or areas their style emphasizes. "Linear" vs. "Circular" This distinction refers to lines of movement, attack and defense. "Circular" styles use circular movements to block, attack, or move. Around and aside... "Linear" styles use direct, straight-on movements, attacks, or head-on blocks. In and out... Styles can, and sometimes do, mix circular blocks with linear attacks. This is a subtle distinction and not absolute, but it gives some information. "Soft" vs. Hard" "Soft" styles tend to redirect energy, channeling and diverting momentum to unbalance an opponent, or to move them into striking range. They tend to be lower commitment and use less force. Thus, they are less likely to be unbalanced and can recover from redirection easier. Examples are Tai Chi, Aikido, Ninjutsu, or many Kung Fu styles and sub-styles. "Hard" styles tend to direct energy outward and meet energy with energy. They will tend to strike more, and deliver more force with each strike. Hard stylists will often damage with their blocks, turning them into attacks. They deliver more power, and thus are harder to turn aside, but they are higher commitment, and thus don't recover as well from mistakes. Examples are Karate, Tae-Kwon-Do, Muay Thai, and some Kung Fu styles and sub-styles. "Internal" vs. "External" "Internal" styles are styles that emphasize the more non-tangible elements of the arts. They utilize chi/ki/qi flow, rooting, and those elements which some people consider "mystical". They tend to emphasize meditation, body control, perception, mind control (self, not others!), and pressure points. `Typically' internal styles are soft. Tai Chi is an internal style. "External" styles tend to emphasize body mechanics, leverage, and applied force. They tend to use weight, strength, positioning, and anatomy to optimal advantage. `Typically' external styles are hard. Tae-Kwon-Do is an external style. "Complete Art" or not The term "complete art" is sometimes applied to arts that include strikes, kicks, throws, pressure points, and joint locks. The arts most often mentioned in this regard are some Kung Fu styles, Jujutsu, and Hapkido. Although some arts contain more techniques than others, no art is "complete" in the sense that it includes all the important techniques from other arts. In general, every art has its strong and weak points, and each has something to offer to the lexicon of martial arts techniques. =============================================================================== 4) Which Martial Art should I study? That's a question that only you can answer, maybe with a little help of your physician. While some people advocate that "my style fits any individual", it is very debatable if any single individual would adapt to *any* style. It depends heavily on your objectives, but remember, these may change with time. Many people who begin martial arts training strictly to learn self-defense become quite interested in other aspects as their training progresses. (a) What are you looking for? For instance, if you are looking for on the street self-defense training Tai Chi or Kendo might not be your first choice. Some choices: Jujutsu, Hapkido, some Kung Fus, Karate, Kenpo (or Kempo), Tang Soo Do, Muay Thai, Tae-Kwon-Do, Ninjutsu, Kali, or Silat. If you are looking for meditation and philosophy Western Boxing is probably a poor choice as well. Some choices: most Kung Fus, Aikido, Tai Chi, Kendo, Kenjutsu, or Iaido. If you are looking for a sport and competition, Shao-Lin Long Fist would probably be a bad choice. Some choices: Fencing, some Karates/Kung Fus, Judo, Boxing, Kendo, Tae-Kwon-Do, and Savate. If you are looking for intense body conditioning and muscle development, Aikido is probably not the style for you. Some choices: some Okinawan Karates, Judo, some Kung Fus, Muay Thai, Tae-Kwon-Do, Capoeira. Now these are general guides- in truth any art can be taught in a manner which promotes any of these things- Tai Chi masters have competed, some Aikido schools have rigorous workouts associated with the class, etc. The way to find out is to look at three things, only one of which is directly linked to the style. -The basics of the style (what does it teach, what is it used for) -The skill and the teaching style of the teacher -The purpose and the logistics of the school. See Section (5) "How do I choose a school" for the answers to the last two questions. Also remember that more "complete" arts (ones with more techniques) naturally require longer periods of time for a practitioner to achieve a given level of proficiency. This is neither good nor bad; there are good points on both sides of the debate. This is simply another facet to account for in your decision. (b) Advice of many experienced Martial Artists here on NetLand coincide in the point of "go, read, look around, ask---then decide". As above the teacher and the school have as much to do with what you will learn as the style. Check out the styles in your area. Go see some classes of the different styles and see what interests you and what you think you would stick with. (c) Many people change from one style to another. While this is a common practice, accepted as a means of development, it is known that the first style is normally the one that leaves the base, the more profound "marks". Try to choose a style that suits your needs and at the same time offers you a kind of "challenge" to go on learning. =============================================================================== 5) How do I choose a School? This question is integrally linked with Question 4 "Which Martial Art should I study?". A couple of things that are important parts to look at in the process of choosing a school: -The environment where you'll learn and train -The people that will be your partners -The instructor -The logistics of the school (a) The environment where you will learn and train Don't get impressed by the size of the place- just be sure that you feel "ok" in there. Also don't necessarily be impressed by huge number of trophies. They may indicate a very successful competitive school (if that is an aspect you are interested in) or they could be all show. Check carefully. If you are not allowed to watch any classes, you may not want to invest your time and money. Without seeing a class you will not be able to get a good feel for the school. Ask questions- don't worry about looking stupid or asking the "wrong" question. They are going to be teaching and training you- you want to get any concerns or considerations you have out before you commit to anything. If you feel bullied or threatened in any manner, look somewhere else. (b) The people that will be your partners Go, watch some classes (without participating), then ask to participate- see if the behavior of the students changes by the fact that there is a new person in their class. What follows is a quick and dirty check list, to which you can add your own points, based on what you consider important. Remember: these questions and suggestions are just guidelines, not hard and fast rules. There will always be exceptions. But if you look in these domains you will have a solid ground to choose from. - How good are the students? This is more of a measure of the quality of the students as students than their skill at martial arts. See if you can picture yourself with these people. Are they attentive, respectful, interested in being there? Those are all good signs... - Is there a mix of upper and lower ranks? This is not always obvious in the styles without belt rankings, etc. It is generally a good sign if advanced, intermediate and beginning students are practicing together. Check the approach the higher ranked students take to you- their help will probably be very important in your advancement in the Art you choose. Some schools have classes separated by rank though. Ask. -Is there a mix in the type of people in the class? Although this doesn't necessarily mean anything if it is not present, it is a good sign if there is a mixture of males and females, older and younger people in the class. It is a pointer to the efficiency of the Art if it can teach a wide variety of people together. - Do they move the way you would like to? This will give you some sense of what you can achieve. Look to the senior students and see if they move the way you want to move. - Do they help one another? In a small class this may not apply, but in larger classes it is a good sign if the senior students support and assist the junior students. This kind of personal attention will aid you greatly in your training. - Do the senior students seem fit and relaxed? This will give you a sense of the atmosphere of the school. If the senior students are uptight, nervous, unfit, out of shape, or unhappy, it may be a sign to move on. However, do not be put off by a single occurrence, i.e. because on THAT day the senior student was in a poor mood. It should at least prompt you to look carefully though... - How common are injuries? As most martial arts involve vigorous physical activity and contact, injuries will occasionally occur. However, if injuries are common and/or serious, there is likely a problem in how training is supervised, and you will probably want to look elsewhere. It will be difficult to tell what the frequency/severity of injuries in the class is in one or two visits. Ask the instructor. (c) The Instructor -You'll need some basic trust in the individual, as a beginning. The instructor is the person who is going to be guiding your development as a martial artist. You need to feel comfortable with him or her, and feel secure in receiving instruction from them. If you have some unease or personality conflict with the instructor(s) you might want to look elsewhere. - Do the students get personalized attention? This will be a good judge of how valuable your time will be. If there is a good amount of instructor to student attention there will be more value for you. - Does the instructor differentiate between forms and function? Another good indication is to find out if the instructor(s) differentiates between form and function. In other words do they do it "because it looks good" or "because it works." This may not apply if you are looking for a martial art as a performance art or as an exercise (though then you want to look at the efficacy of their exercises...) - Does the instructor(s) differentiate between tournament and self-defense? As above, your reaction to this question's answer will depend on what your goals are. However, there is general agreement that tournament training and self-defense training, while highly related, are different. If the instructor does not differentiate the two- that may be a danger sign! - Violence in the class If you see an instructor hitting students, or a senior student hitting students, be very clear that it was appropriate before you consider that school. Though be aware - if you are unfamiliar with the art, medium or full contact sparring may seem overly violent to you. Violence as discipline is to be avoided. - Are adjustments made for students of differing body types and limitations? Another good sign is if the instructor adjusts the training of his or her student's physical realities: telling a slow person to work contact, a fast person to work ranges, a heavy person to work leverage, a light person to work speed, or, conversely, concentrating on their weak areas to compensate. (d) The logistics of the School -Money This is an important element to be clear about. You don't want to commit to a school if you can't afford it. It is impossible to address what a reasonable price would be here, because the benefits offered, the local economy, the quality of instruction, and the amount of instructor time are all variables in the equation. Find out if there are extra charges for going up in rank, find out if there are organizational dues, tournament fees, mat fees, etc. But do not be upset when a Martial Arts instructor charges money- they need to eat and have a place to stay. In our culture money is the way that happens. We do not feed and house wise old men. Now, some instructors, especially around colleges, or who have big garages;-) teach for free after their primary job. However, the costs of a school, equipment, and insurance are frighteningly high. The best way to determine if a school is being reasonable is to compare what they offer for the price compared to what other local schools offer for their prices. -Location If you are intending to spend a lot of time at the school you want it to be accessible, and convenient enough for you to get their after work, on weekends, etc. -Classes Another thing you want to be clear on is when you can go to the school and when classes are. Some schools are open almost all the time and have lots of classes. In some schools you can only come when an official class is being held. An open school is usually better for obvious reasons- convenience, practice time, access to mats, etc. -Commitments and Promises This is an important thing to know about any school you will be joining. Be very clear on what they will expect of you and what you expect of them. Some teachers want to teach only people who are willing to commit to them and their style, some are willing to introduce you to their style and let you dabble, some will teach you as long as you show up. None of these are intrinsically better or worse, but you want to know where they are coming from so you and they are not surprised. Find out if you are required to attend classes, find out about being late, find out what the policy is on school rules of behavior and etiquette. Find out how you are supposed to interact with the teacher and other students. There are many styles for all these things so make sure you find out. The easiest way is to ask these questions. There may be other questions you want to look at and specific questions you have about an instructor, school, organization, or style you are looking at. Know the questions you want answered and you will find the perfect school for you! =============================================================================== 6) (a) This guy says that his style will make a Full Certified Warrior & Killer out of me in 3 months---is it serious? In short: NO. First off, while many people enter the Way of the Martial Arts trying to be the deadliest people in the world, it is not true that the final objective of most, if any, Arts is this. Many Masters say that the best battle someone can win is one that he doesn't fight. Most martial arts are not designed to make you an instant killer. Secondly, don't expect any miracle to come down on you, any light to come through your window in the night and make you the most skilled fighter- it all depends on your dedication, on your objectives, and on the amount of training you get. Any school that promises to teach you to be an "expert" in less than two years (at the lowest minimum) is probably a scam. General net consensus seems to be that results can be seen within a few months but the elusive "MASTERY" is the product of YEARS and YEARS of dedicated work. Don't be fooled by false promises. (b) What do I do to become the deadliest person in the world ? In brief: You can't. While a Martial Artist does learn combat skills, the final objective of a Martial Art is not to become the deadliest person alive. The Martial Arts recognize there will always be someone who is bigger, stronger, faster, has a bigger knife, a more powerful gun, a longer range missile, and so on. The objective, then, is to become the best that you can be, regardless of how good anyone else is. =============================================================================== 7) Should children study Martial Arts? In general, yes. Some of the possible positives would be control of agressiveness, instilling self-respect and self-control, as well as self-defense. The style that a child should take is a totally different question, and is directly influenced by the style, if any, of the parents. It will of course be convenient if the child can practice with, or at least in the same school as, the parents. The major issue with children in the martial arts is the integrity and trustworthiness of the teacher and the school. The joints and connective tissues of children are more vulnerable to injury than those of adults. Keep this in mind when selecting a style and school for a child, and discuss it with the instructor. Schools which allow agressive joint locks to be applied to children or don't train them to refrain from snapping/hyper-extending elbows on strikes and knees on kicks should be avoided. (It is for this same reason that good baseball coaches will not allow young pitchers to throw pitches which require hard snapping of the arm - like curve balls). Throws, however, are quite different; the small size of children makes them naturals for arts which require falling down. =============================================================================== 8) I believe/don't believe in X. Should I train in Y? Some martial arts have philosophical and/or religious roots or associations, e.g. with Buddhism, Taoism, or Omotokyo. Thus, it is natural for people who are considering a particular art to wonder if it is compatible with their own philosophy or religion. Normally it is not considered ethical for a Sensei/Sifu/Master/Teacher to try to *impose* his own views on his students. However, the philosophical aspects of some arts may still be present in the required training to the extent that some potential students would be offended by it. As with so many other aspects of martial arts, it depends on the art and even more heavily on the instructor. So, be sure to watch for this aspect when you visit a school that you are interested in. Have a conversation with the instructor about it, and watch how he/she interacts with his/her students. =============================================================================== 9) Rankings/Color Belt Systems Many arts have a ranking system. A typical ranking from beginner to most experienced master is: 10th kyu, 9th kyu, ..., 2nd kyu, 1st kyu, 1st dan, 2nd dan, ..., 10th dan. "kyu" and "dan" are Japanese words; Korean systems use the word "gup" instead of "kyu". 1st dan and above frequently wear black belts. That being said, do not put too much stock in rankings, and put even less in belt color. Belt colors are HIGHLY dependent on the art, school, and instructor. Some arts don't have any belts. Some have only white and black. Some have white, brown, and black. Some have a rainbow. Some instructors hand out rank/belts like candy, others are very stingy. A given color will frequently signify different ranks in different arts. Rather than rank or belt color, what will determine an individual's skill are how long and how intensely they have studied, the quality of instruction they have received, and (to a lesser extent) their "natural" ability. =============================================================================== 10) What is Greenoch? The truth is: Greenoch doesn't exist. It first appeared in a post by someone satirizing the "my School is better than your School", "my Sensei/Sifu/Master is better than yours" syndrome that sometimes comes up in this group. =============================================================================== 11) What is Ki/Qi/Chi? There are no absolute right answers to this question. Instead of giving the one true answer to this, below are several different opinions. (a) Ki doesn't exist. Everything the ki model tries to explain can be explained with body mechanics, biophysics, and psychology. There is no need to postulate some mysterious force. Science can explain it. (b) Ki exists absolutely. Ki is an energy, a living force, a spirit that can be used to increase your strength, throw people around, etc. Subjective experience shows that ki is real. It may either be a bio-kinetic phenomena science doesn't understand yet or the power of the mind in union with the body. (c) Ki may or may not "really" exist. It is a useful model. The ki model allows you to visualize how to increase your strength, throw people around, etc.--it doesn't matter if it exists or not. If someone invents a better model (i.e. one that is easier to visualize), then maybe we'll switch to it. =============================================================================== 12) Martial Arts Glossary English: sparring -- training with another person using actual blows Japanese: atemi -- a punch do -- way dojo -- training hall gi -- uniform worn when training kata -- prearranged series of movements ki -- energy, living power, spirit kumite -- sparring jutsu -- art randori -- multiple-person attacks sensei -- teacher Ichi (ee-chee) -- one Ni (nee) -- two San (sahn) -- three Shi (shee) -- four Go (go) -- five Roku (row-koo) -- six Shichi (shee-chee) -- seven Hachi (hah-chee) -- eight Kyu (cue) -- nine Ju (joo) -- ten Korean: dobak -- uniform worn when training dojang -- training hall poomse -- prearranged series of movements qi -- energy, living power, spirit (same as chi) sohgi -- stance chagi -- kick chirugi -- punch makki -- block kyuroogi -- free sparring gup -- grade kihap -- yell sah-bum-nim -- master Hah Nah -- one Dool -- two Set -- three (don't aspirate Net -- four the "t"s) Dah Suyht -- five Yuh Suyht -- six Il Gop -- seven Yah Duhl -- eight Ah Hope -- nine Yuhl -- ten Chinese: chi -- energy, living power, spirit (same as qi) sifu -- teacher Mandarin Cantonese yi yut -- one e'r yee -- two san som -- three sz' say -- four wu ng -- five lyo'u look -- six chi chut -- seven ba bot -- eight jyo'u gau -- nine sh'r sup -- ten =============================================================================== 13) A small bibliography: _The Original Martial Arts Encyclopedia: Tradition, History, Pioneers_. Corcorn/Farkas. Pro-Action Publishing. ISBN Number: 0-9615126-3-6 _Go Rin No Sho---The Book of the Five Rings_. Miyamoto Musashi _The Essence of Ninjutsu_. Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi _Budo Jiten_, 2nd Edition. F. J. Lovret (72727.257@CompuServe.com). Taseki Publishing. _Comprehensive Asian Fighting Arts_. Draeger & Smith Publisher: Kodansha International ISBN Number: 0-87011-436-0 ISBN Number in Japan: 4-7700-0913-5 _The Art Of War_. Sun Tzu _Zen in the Art of Archery_. Eugen Herrigel _Karate-Do, My Way of Life_. Gichin Funakoshi _Karate-Do Nyumon_. Gichin Funakoshi _Karate-Do Kyohan_. Gichin Funakoshi _The Student's Handbook_. Frederick Lovret _The Filipino Martial Arts_. Dan Inosanto _Absorb What is Useful_. Dan Inosanto _Budo_. Morihei Ueshiba _Zen in the Martial Arts_. Joe Hyams In general, books from the Kodansha Editors carry a reputation of being serious and at the same time direct and objective. This list will grow with time. Publishers: Pro-Action Publishing A Division of Pro-Action Sports, Inc. 1717 N. Glendale Bl. Los Angeles, CA 90026 Kodansha America, Inc. 114 Fifth Ave. New York, NY 10011 212-727-6460 Tel. Orders: 800-631-8571 [Visa, American Express, Mastercard only] Taseki Publishing Co. 3579 Ruffin Road #205 San Diego, CA 92123 619-278-1348 =============================================================================== 14) Sources of information a) non-electronic Soke John J. Williams Box 2335 Station A Moncton, NB E1A8J3 Canada (506) 382-6349 Soke Williams is affiliated with the International Martial Arts (League IMAL) and is head(?) of the Canadian Ninja Society. They maintain a large catalog of martial arts schools in North America. Write or call. Simply state that you were referred to him as such a source and are in need of MA schools/instructors in whatever part of the country you are interested in. b) electronic This FAQ, Brad Appleton's great work, the Stretching FAQ, Mic Venning's Bruce Lee FAQ, Jeff Pipkins' Newbie Guide, and the sword art faq (sword-art-faq.gz) are available on cs.huji.ac.il (132.65.16.10) on /pub/doc/faq/rec/martial.arts. ************************************ The Aikido Dojo Directory, ftp'able from cs.ucsd.edu 132.239.51.3. ************************************ _Budo Shinbun_ is an entirely electronic magazine devoted to the classical Japanese martial arts. It runs under Windows 3.1 and higher, and is complete with pictures. It is entirely automatic, and requires only that the subscriber tell it to "get new" and it will obtain the latest articles (mail too) for reading off-line. It is NOT a BBS. Available from Taseki Publishing (address & phone number above). ************************************ Another discussion forum, this time a bit more specialized, is the Traditional Karate Mailing List, maintained by Howard S. High, of which we include some of the Charter: Charter for the Traditional Japanese/Okinawan Karate Group List Name: KARATE PURPOSE: The purpose of this group is to provide a forum for individuals who practice one or more of the traditional Japanese/Okinawan Karate styles to share information and discuss issues. This is the first "CYBER-Dojo" as a training supplement to Karate. The list is un-moderated, with restricted membership. MEMBERS: Application for membership is open to any individual who practices traditional Japanese/Okinawan Karate (teachers and students). An exception to this rule will be for those individuals who follow the traditional values but does not belong to a traditional school due to reasons beyond the individual's control. Another exception is for individuals who have not yet selected a martial art to follow. This list can help such individuals choose their path. APPLICATION PROCESS: A prospective member will send a subscription command to the LISTSERV Host: LISTSERV@UKANAIX.CC.UKANS.EDU command: subscribe karate The Host will forward an automatic reply which includes the questionaire and the Principles of Conduct. After completing the application, the prospective member will forward the application to: godzilla@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu use Subject: PLEDGE The questionaire will be reviewed by the listowner. After review, the list owner will either request more information from the applicant, send a Welcome Letter to the new member, or advise the applicant why the membership was not approved. If anyone wants to get an updated calendar of karate events, they can use the "FINGER" utility on the internet to view Howard's calendar: finger godzilla@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu |more and use the screen capture command on their system to download the information. ************************************ There is also the Aikido FTP site: 132.239.51.3, and the Aikido Mailing List, with this info from Gerry Santoro: Because of popular demand I have established a LISTSERV conference for people wanting to talk about Aikido. The name of this group is AIKIDO-L@PSUVM (for bitnet users) AIKIDO-L@PSUVM.PSU.EDU (for Internet users) The purpose of this group is open, public discussion of Aikido. Sharing, understanding and and mutual respect are encouraged. Flaming and arguments (such as 'my style is better than your style') are discouraged. To join the list, send an interactive message (if you are on bitnet) or email (if you are on Internet) to either: LISTSERV@PSUVM (bitnet) LISTSERV@PSUVM.PSU.EDU (Internet) with the message: SUBSCRIBE AIKIDO-L 'your full name' Then you will start getting email from the list. To participate in the list once subscribed you simply send email to AIKIDO-L@PSUVM or AIKIDO-L@PSUVM.PSU.EDU. For example, I subscribed with the following command: SUBSCRIBE AIKIDO-L Gerry Santoro Although I am list owner I intend for this to be an unmoderated list. I am providing this as a public service and to spread word about Aikido. Please don't expect me to referee discussions. (:-) Gerry Santoro Academic Computing/Speech Communication Penn State University Aikido Kokikai Penn State ************************************ There is a Tuite/Acupuncture Discussion group, with this information from Erik Hatcher (esh6h@fulton.seas.virginia.edu). Tuite/Acupuncture Discussion Group PURPOSE: The purpose of this group is to provide a forum in which the theories of traditional Chinese medicine can discussed mainly in relation to the martial arts. The list is un-moderated, with restricted membership. How to apply for membership: All memberships are approved by the group administrator. Membership is open to any open-minded martial artist, acupuncturist, alternative healer, or anyone _actively_ interested in any of the above. APPLICATION PROCESS: A prospective member will send a subscription command to: owner-tuite@virginia.edu In the body of the message will only be one line of the form - subscribe The subject of the subscription request mail should be SUBSCRIBE to provide quicker response. For example, if Joe Blow at jb@somewhere.com wishes to subscribe, he would send: subscribe jb@somewhere.com The list owner will receive the subscription request forward an application to you. Further instructions will be provided with this application. Subscription will NOT be granted without having completed the application process. Serious applicants only! Participation is the key to our group. If your intention is to sign up, receive lots of in-depth knowledge from others, and contribute nothing, do not apply. If everyone contributes - the whole will be greater than the sum of the parts! POSSIBLE TOPICS FOR DISCUSSION: - Traditional Chinese Medicine - 5 Element Theory - Yin/Yang Theory - Kata or Forms bunkai as it relates to TCM - Book/Video reviews - Pressure point locations - Pressure point Knock Outs - Revival techniques ************************************ To subscribe to Martial-Arts-Digest, send the command: subscribe martial-arts-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@majordomo.cso.uiuc.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-martial-arts": subscribe martial-arts-digest local-martial-arts@your.domain.net ************************************ To join one of the following lists, send an interactive message (if you are on bitnet) or email (if you are on Internet) to either: LISTSERV@PSUVM (bitnet) LISTSERV@PSUVM.PSU.EDU (Internet) with the message: SUBSCRIBE Listname 'your full name' Lists: AIKIDO-L Aikido List JUJUTSU Jujutsu List KOKIKAI Kokikai Aikido List ************************************ iaido-l Japanese Sword Arts Mailing List To join the Iaido list, send email to 'listserv@uoguelph.ca' with the command: subscribe iaido-l ************************************ The Martial Arts network (BBS database System) [accessable by Mac and Windows] PURPOSE: To represent all martial arts,artists, styles & systems equally. To provide martial arts magazine articles (presently available for Dragon Times, Aiki News, & Fighting Arts International), martial arts related files (graphics, pictures and programs), access to the martial arts book bibliography project by the UCLA Library and Dragon Books Publishing, to give PC/MAC based martial artists an inexpensive way to access basic internet services, and to provide a means for martial arts schools to communicate with their students and instructors. INFO PROCESS: For more information on the Martial Arts Network, send a note to: info@martialnet.com. TYPE OF ACCESS: Presently the system can only be access by dial in with a modem. The system has multiple lines of access all at 14,400+ baud, and internet UUCP access for news and mail transfers. A full internet feed for eventual telnet access is in the plans for the future. FEATURES: Directories of martial arts associations, schools, and businesses Newsgroups associated with martial arts and oriental culture Internet Martial Arts Mail Lists Private school areas (member schools administrate their own areas on the system that are accessable for their students) Communications with the internet, OneNet Network, and Canadian Network. UPCOMING FEATURES: Direct Database Interface for online reports, queries, and database input Local Calling Access. The Martial Arts Network of Denver Colorado uses the FirstClass server software by SoftArc Inc. This can be obtained from sumex-aim.stanford.edu or other ftp sites. =============================================================================== 15) Sources for material & equipment (please send in info for places outside Continental U.S.A.- this is a very international group.) California S and P Inc. 10545-B San Pablo Ave.; El Cerrito, CA 94530; USA 415-527-6032 Century Martial Art Supply, Inc. 1705 National Blvd.; Midwest City, OK 73110; USA 800-626-2787 Defense Arts, Inc. P.O. Box 1028; Smyrna, GA 30081; USA 404-434-0370 East West Markets Exchange, Inc. 5533 North Broadway; Chicago, IL 60640; USA 312-878-7711 Honda Martial Arts Supply Co. 61 West 23rd St.; New York, NY 10010; USA 800-USA-NYNY or 212-620-4050 Kim Pacific Martial Arts Supplies 1451 Doolittle Dr.; San Leandro, CA 94577; USA 800-227-0500 Kiyota Company 2326 North Charles St.; Baltimore, MD 21219; USA 301-360-8275 Martial Arts Supplies Co., Inc. 10711 Venice Blvd.; Los Angles, CA 90034-6294; USA 213-870-9866 Musashi Martial Arts 1842 S. Grand Ave.; Santa Ana, CA 92705; USA 714-557-4274 PAIS Enterprises P.O. Box 518, Miliken Post Office; Milliken, Ontario, LOH 1K0, CANADA 416-299-8168 S & P of New York Budo, Inc. P.O. Box 2; Depew, NY 14043; USA 716-681-7911 Saghafi Enterprises 1604 Niagara Falls Blvd.; Tonawanda, NY 14150; USA 716-832-3322 Top Brands Box 51331; New Orleans, LA 70151; USA 504-522-4540 Chris Nickolas American Arts Karate Martial arts supplies (wholesale/retail) 4858 S. Main St. Akron, Ohio 44319 216-645-0818 (Internet: mark.juszczec@bellhow.com) Scandanavian Sources (most from a MA chain store called SBI) SBI BUDOSPORT Sodra Forstadsgatan 66 Box 17092 200 10 Malmo SWEDEN Tel: +46 (0)40 101585 Fax +46 (0)40 301405 SBI Stockholm Torsgatan 40 (S:t Eriksplan) 113 62 Stockholm SWEDEN Tel +46 (0)8 308808 Fax +46 (0)8 331884 SBI Leksand Insjovagen 48 790 30 Insjon SWEDEN Tel +46 (0)247 40654 SBI Umea Backenvagen 87 902 51 Umea SWEDEN Tel +46 (0)90 31285 SBI Ostergotland Nygatan 31A 582 24 Linkoping SWEDEN Tel +46 (0)13 126680 WOLFGANGS JUDO & SPORT Box 88 820 77 Gnarp SWEDEN Tel +46 (0)625 20580 JT BUDOSPORT Box 3022 850 03 Sundsvall SWEDEN Tel +46 (0)60 158002 SHINPRO Gullberna Park 371 06 Karlskrona SWEDEN Tel +46 (0)455 27974 Intersport Lulea Storgatan 26 951 31 Lulea SWEDEN Tel +46 (0)920 17320 Charles Harbour Sport Gustavsborgsvagen 10 374 38 Karlshamn SWEDEN Tel +46 (0)454 19600 Budoshopen Slakterigatan 6 721 32 Vasteras SWEDEN Tel +46 (0)21 143218 Orebro Gym & Kraftsportcenter Drottninggatan 29 = 702 22 Orebro SWEDEN Fighter Sport Storgatan 37 Postboks 4781 0506 Oslo NORWAY Tel 22114055 Fax 22208708 SBI Fighter Shop Jagtvej 70 2200 Kopenhavn N DENMARK Tel 35374700 Fax 35374702 =============================================================================== -- Randy Pals | "Master, do we seek victory in contention?" IPACT, Inc. | "Seek rather not to contend, for without contention (pals@ipact.com) | there can be neither victory nor defeat."

---

E-Mail Fredric L. Rice / The Skeptic Tank