==* MORRIS SCICRELIE WHITCOMB Article 26281 of talk.origins: Subject: Hey, Morris and Whit

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==* MORRIS SCICRE_LIE WHITCOMB Article 26281 of talk.origins: From: zuber_rg@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Robert G Zuber) Subject: Hey, Morris and Whitcomb, God is looking! :) Message-ID: <1992May24.130634.6921@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> Date: 24 May 92 13:06:34 GMT References: <18033@plains.NoDak.edu> <18037@plains.NoDak.edu> Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore Lines: 85 In article <18037@plains.NoDak.edu> ortmann@plains.NoDak.edu (Daniel Ortmann) writes: >"do it right" be sure you have evidence. We are talking of high caliber >scientists, who happen to be Christians and creationists. These people >(also myself) have great moral accountability to be honest and >*guileless*. Any Christian who tries to falsify evidence has to face >God. Even when no one else is looking, God is. Incredible! As you said, 'Any Christian who tries to falsify evidence has to face God'. Will you accept the following as 'falsifying evidence'? ----------- I'm quoting a second-hand source, so flame me if you will. I will, however, at least list the primary sources so you can check yourself. The point here is about creationist misquoting, nothing else. The following is from source [1] (the second-hand one). ======================= QUESTION: According to creationists, there are plenty of places where the fossils are in the wrong order for evolution. This must mean geologists have to assume evolution so as to arrange the geological time scale so as to date the fossils so as to erect an evolutionary sequence so as to prove evolution, thereby reasoning in a vicious circle. When the fossils are in the wrong order, geologists apparently assume the "older" rocks were shoved on top of the younger ones (thrust faulting), or else that the strata were overturned (recumbent folds), even though there is no physical evidence for these processes. In particular, Whitcomb and Morris [2] maintain the physical evidence proves the Lewis Overthrust and Heart Mountain Overthrust never slid an inch. How do you reply? ANSWER: Whitcomb and Morris, again, quote their sources badly out of context. There is plenty of physical evidence having nothing to do with fossils or evolution that show thrust faulting to be very real. Let us consider the Lewis Overthrust and Heart Mountain Overthrust [I've deleted the Heart Mountain bit] in some detail. The Lewis Overthrust of Glacier National Park, Montana, consists of the deformed Precambrian limestones of the Belt Formation that were shoved along a horizontal thrust fault on top of much younger (but viciously crumpled) Cretaceous shales. ...[deletion]... Ross and Rezak [3] wrote in their article about the Lewis Overthrust that the rocks along the thrust fault are badly crumpled, but Whitcomb and Morris (p. 187) lift the following words from this article: "Most visitors, especially those who stay on the roads, get the impression that the Belt strata are undisturbed and lie almost as flat today as they did when deposited in the sea which vanished so many million years ago." But if we read the rest of Ross's and Rezak's paragraph, we find that Whitcomb and Morris quoted it out of context: ".... so many million years ago. Actually, they are folded, and in certain places, they are intensely so. From the points on and near the trails in the park, it is possible to observe places where the Belt series, as revealed in outcrops on ridges, cliffs, and canyon walls, are folded and crumpled almost as intricately as the soft younger strata in the mountains south of the park and in the Great Plains adjoining the park to the east." Ross and Rezak repeatedly show how "crushed and crumpled" the rocks in the thrust fault are: "The intricate crumpling and crushing in the immediate vicinity of the main overthrust, visible in localities like that near Marias Pass, shown in figure 139, must have taken place when the heavy overthrust slab was forced over the soft rocks beneath......" [Two more quotations deleted] ============================ Now it certainly *appears* that Whitcomb and Morris have *completely* misrepresented the Ross and Rezak paper. It seems they quoted to the effect that there was *no* evidence of overthrusting, even though that paper appears to forcefully say the *exact* opposite! Now it's fine if creationists want to disagree with certain conclusions if they can back it up with evidence, but why in hell quote from a paper that completely contradicts your view? [because they are liars.] [1] Weber, Christopher Gregory "Common Creationist Attacks on Geology". _Creation/Evolution_, Issue II, Fall 1980, pp. 21-22. [2] Whitcomb, John C., and Henry M. Morris. _Genesis Flood_. Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Co.: Philadelphia, PA, 1961. [3] Ross, C. P., and Richard Rezak. "The Rocks and Fossils of Glacier National Monument". _U.S. Geological Survey Professional Paper_ 294-K (1959). Rob Zuber


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