SE Sun Vienna Va. Sep1093 05:27AM The Flood is Absurd rticle 747631218@cc.gatech.edu, drew

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SE Sun Vienna Va. Sep-10-93 05:27AM The Flood is Absurd Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc., Vienna, VA. From: fritz@titanic.East.Sun.COM ( SE Sun Vienna Va.) Message-ID: <26pvc7INNldh@titanic.east.sun.com> Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,talk.origins >rticle 747631218@cc.gatech.edu, drewd@terminus.gatech.edu (L. Drew Davis) writes: I found the pressure argument presented a few weeks back interesting. The weight of all that water doesn't go away, even if it's vapor and in the atmosphere. Living under a "vapor canopy" would subject creatures to just as much pressure as living at the bottom of an equivalently deep ocean. I don't know of any land creatures that would survive at 25,000 feet down in the Marianas Trench. How do you keep everything from gettting squashed? The Creationists could probably wiggle out of this one pretty easily. After all, they claim that the waters of the flood came from both the "vapor canopy" and the "waters of the deep", and never say how much came from which source. All they have to do is claim that there wasn't that much water in the canopy so it wasn't a problem. But you don't have to go as deep as the Marianas Trench to start causing distress in humans. Ask any scuba diver and they'll tell you that after you get down several hundred feet nitrogen narcosis (rapture of the deep) sets in. So any significant amout of water in the atmosphere would really screw up a budding culture. I wonder how all those pre-flood civilizations managed to get anything done since everyone would be acting like they just got back from a three martini lunch. Also, when the vapor canopy collapsed, the pressure would have dropped very rapidly. I wonder why the Bible doesn't tell of Noah's agonizing case of the bends. "'And as the Heavens opened, and the waters of the sky did fall, Noah and all his kin, and all the animals of the ark were striken by a great pain in their bellys. And their noises did bleed, and their eyes did bleed, and their ears did bleed. And of the dumber animals of the field, who did not know to scream for their lives when undergoing explosive decompression, their lungs did explode, and their brains and their hearts did rupture. And they did die in pain. And the Lord saw this,and said that it was good.' Thus endth the reading." --- Steve Fritzinger -- steve.fritzinger@East.Sun.COM "But nobody asked me, and now it's too late." - Al Bundy =============================================================== From: Robert Grumbine To: All Msg #198, Sep-12-93 11:07AM Subject: Re: How big a balloon of water would be needed for the Flood? Organization: Grebyn Corporation Timesharing From: rmg3@grebyn.com (Robert Grumbine) Message-ID: Newsgroups: talk.origins In article <1993Sep10.194932.12830@desire.wright.edu> sbishop@desire.wright.edu (Sue Bishop) writes: > >How about an approximation of the amount of water that would have been needed >for the Flood, but calculated as a globe? A couple of ways would be nice, >using Mount Ararat and using Mount Everest. I think it might help some >of these creationists for visualization, if they could just picture a globe >of water that encompasses the amount needed to flood that deep, then visualize >it next to the earth. One of the main problems is lack of imagination on >their part. Basic figures from Gill, Atmosphere-Ocean Dynamics (full citation given earlier): Mass of the ocean = 1.4E21 kg Area of the ocean = 3.61E14 m^2 Area of Earth = 5.10E14 m^2 Ancillary figures (not directly from Gill) Mean elevation of land 800 m Mean depth of ocean 3730 m Volume of ocean ~1.4E18 m^3 ~ Radius of equivalent sphere: 7E5 m, 700 km. I break covering the mountains in to two parts: first, adding enough water to drown (on average) the continents (i.e. the 800 m). Then, adding enough water to make up the difference between 800 m and the top of the mountain. This split lets us (approximately) cover the present surface area of the ocean with 800 m of water, then to cover the surface area of the earth with whatever additional amount of water is needed. The difference between this and the rigorous method matters only to pedants for elevations about 2-3 km. To get to 800 m, we need to add 8/37.3 times the present volume of ocean. About 0.21. To get from 800 m to 14,000 feet (I keep forgetting the exact elevation, adjust as needed) we need 5.1/3.6 (area factor) * (14000/3.28 - 800) / 3730 times the present volume, or 1.3 time present. To get from 800 m to 29,000 feet (Everest) substitute 29000 for 14000 and get 3.05 times present ocean volume. Totals: Ararat (14000 feet assumed) 1.5 times present ocean volume added Everest (29000 ") 3.3 " I go through the gory details because other posters seem to be disagreeing with me and each other. In any case, _lots_ of water needs to be added. Speaking of which, a while back someone posted a contest to win creation science points. A three pointer was to create a scheme to support the 'vapor canopy' without killing off life on the planet via added hydrostatic pressure and such. I'll be entering the contest in a bit :-) Bob Grumbine rmg3@grebyn.com

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