Larry Sites 930909 21:34:00 Creationists Lies Today, Sept. 9, 1993, I, Larry Sites went to

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Larry Sites 93-09-09 21:34:00 Creationists Lies Today, Sept. 9, 1993, I, Larry Sites went to the Institute for Creation Research, 10946 N. Woodside Av. Santee, Ca 92071 phone 619-448-0900 and purchased the pamplet described below. It is listed in their current ICR publications list on the page titled Scientific Case for Creation. I verified that it contains all the lies listed below. I will send a copy of the pages in question at my expense to anyone that requests it and provides a mailing address. It is time that the ICR is known for the lies it spreads under the guise of science. The rest of this post is from the FidoNet as noted and appears to have orginated on the Internet. I have edited out parts to reduce the size, but it clearly shows that the ICR's Duane Gish knew in 1988 or earlier that there were significant errors, yet it still has not been corrected. Most people would call that a lie. Are liers the servants of God? From : Rob Fargher 07-10-93 06:33 To : Jack Brannan RE: 7960 Authors: Robert Zuber (zuber_rg@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu), Chris Colby (colby@bu-bio.bu.edu), Andy Peters (adpeters@sunflower.bio.indiana.edu), Chris Stassen (stassen@alc.com) Title: Various Examples of Verifiable Creationist Dishonesty =================================================================== Read "Have You Been Brainwashed?" by Duane T. Gish, Ph. D. In it, you will note claims of human and dinosaur footprints together at the Paluxy River site. Also, note claims that the precambrian is void of fossils. (See below for evidence that Gish, the author of the pamphlet and very influential in the ICR, knew the latter claim to be false as of 1985.) ==================================================================== Below is a written transcript that I made from a videotape of the Gish/Plimer debate in 1988. Plimer obtained a copy of the same pamphlet, and hammered Gish for the inaccuracies in it. =================================================================== These are from the video tape of the March 18, 1988 debate between Ian Plimer and Duane Gish. The debate took place in Australia. When I am not sure of a word, it appears with a question mark following. Editorial remarks are in [square brackets]. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Plimer's statement during his 45-minute debate speech: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - What I want to now talk about are some of our scientific publications which come from our (?) creationists. And I use our friend's book, or booklet -- it's more like a comic -- which is called "Are You Being Brainwashed?" [Plimer gets the title wrong, I think] I go to page 8. There is a diagram there that says, "precambrian: void of fossils." That is a lie. The precambrian is not void of fossils; the precambrian is extremely rich in fossils. He [Gish] has come to the country where there are many precambrian fossils going back to 3 thousand 3 hundred million years ago. On the same diagram, he says the "earth's crust" is "void of fossils." That is a lie. Every fossil found on this planet is from the earth's crust. That is from his book, "Are You Being Brainwashed?" page 8. We also see on the same page, the Cambrian; a geological time period some time ago. And I quote, "The billions of fossils found are all of highly complex forms of life." That is a lie. There on one simple diagram we have three lies. That is their "scientific publication." We turn now to page 9. And we read, "not a single indisputable multicellular fossil has been found anywhere in the world in a rock supposedly older than Cambrian rocks." That is a lie. So we've read two or three (?) pages and we've got ourselves four lies. And we have an interesting situation here. And continuing with page 9, "billions of highly complex animals... just suddenly appear, with no signs of gradual development from lower forms." That is a lie. So we now have 55 words and 5 lies. One lie every 11 words in his publication. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gish's response during his 10-minute rebuttal period - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Now, furthermore, Dr. Plimer quoted from my book, or little "Brainwashed" booklet, written 17 years ago. And at that time, according to Dr. Preston Cloud, one of the world's leading evolutionary geologists, there were no undoubted precambrian fossils. Now, since that time, as I described in my debate, there are many published reports of micro-fossils in precambrian rocks. I discussed all of them in my book, "Evolution: The Challenge of the Fossil Record," which was published two years ago. [Note here that Gish is saying that he *knows* now that there are precambrian fossils, and that he has known it for at least a couple of years.] - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Plimer's response during his 10(?)-minute rebuttal period - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - This little book seems to have caused a little trouble with our friend. It was written 17 years ago and he refuted it. Why is it I could buy it outside, 20 minutes ago? [And the ICR is *still* selling it without correction or disclaimer. Gish got hammered for distributing the pamphlet in 1988. He admitted that he knew no later than 1985 that some of the claims in it were false. WHY IS THE ICR STILL SELLING IT?]

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