Date: Thu Sep 09 1993 21:34:00 To: All Subj: Creationists Lies EVOLUTION

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Date: Thu Sep 09 1993 21:34:00 From: Larry Sites To: All Subj: Creationists Lies EVOLUTION ------------------------------- Today, Sept. 9, 1993, I, Larry Sites went to the Institute for Creation Research, 10946 N. Woodside Av. Santee, Ca 92071 phone 619-448-0900 and purchased the pamplet described below. It is listed in their current ICR publications list on the page titled Scientific Case for Creation. I verified that it contains all the lies listed below. I will send a copy of the pages in question at my expense to anyone that requests it and provides a mailing address. It is time that the ICR is known for the lies it spreads under the guise of science. The rest of this post is from the FidoNet as noted and appears to have orginated on the Internet. I have edited out parts to reduce the size, but it clearly shows that the ICR's Duane Gish knew in 1988 or earlier that there were significant errors, yet it still has not been corrected. Most people would call that a lie. Are liers the servants of God? Message # 7961 Area : 62 EVOLUTION From : Rob Fargher 07-10-93 06:33 To : Jack Brannan RE: 7960 Subj : 8/9 Dishonesty Authors: Robert Zuber (zuber_rg@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu), Chris Colby (colby@bu-bio.bu.edu), Andy Peters (adpeters@sunflower.bio.indiana.edu), Chris Stassen (stassen@alc.com) Title: Various Examples of Verifiable Creationist Dishonesty ====================================================================== Read "Have You Been Brainwashed?" by Duane T. Gish, Ph. D. In it, you will note claims of human and dinosaur footprints together at the Paluxy River site. Also, note claims that the precambrian is void of fossils. (See below for evidence that Gish, the author of the pamphlet and very influential in the ICR, knew the latter claim to be false as of 1985.) ======================================================================= Below is a written transcript that I made from a videotape of the Gish/Plimer debate in 1988. Plimer obtained a copy of the same pamphlet, and hammered Gish for the inaccuracies in it. ======================================================================= These are from the video tape of the March 18, 1988 debate between Ian Plimer and Duane Gish. The debate took place in Australia. When I am not sure of a word, it appears with a question mark following. Editorial remarks are in [square brackets]. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Plimer's statement during his 45-minute debate speech: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - What I want to now talk about are some of our scientific publications which come from our (?) creationists. And I use our friend's book, or booklet -- it's more like a comic -- which is called "Are You Being Brainwashed?" [Plimer gets the title wrong, I think] I go to page 8. There is a diagram there that says, "precambrian: void of fossils." That is a lie. The precambrian is not void of fossils; the precambrian is extremely rich in fossils. He [Gish] has come to the country where there are many precambrian fossils going back to 3 thousand 3 hundred million years ago. On the same diagram, he says the "earth's crust" is "void of fossils." That is a lie. Every fossil found on this planet is from the earth's crust. That is from his book, "Are You Being Brainwashed?" page 8. We also see on the same page, the Cambrian; a geological time period some time ago. And I quote, "The billions of fossils found are all of highly complex forms of life." That is a lie. There on one simple diagram we have three lies. That is their scientific publication. We turn now to page 9. And we read, "not a single indisputable multicellular fossil has been found anywhere in the world in a rock supposedly older than Cambrian rocks." That is a lie. So we've read two or three (?) pages and we've got ourselves four lies. And we have an interesting situation here. And continuing with page 9, "billions of highly complex animals... just suddenly appear, with no signs of gradual development from lower forms." That is a lie. So we now have 55 words and 5 lies. One lie every 11 words in his publication. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gish's response during his 10-minute rebuttal period - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Now, furthermore, Dr. Plimer quoted from my book, or little "Brainwashed" booklet, written 17 years ago. And at that time, according to Dr. Preston Cloud, one of the world's leading evolutionary geologists, there were no undoubted precambrian fossils. Now, since that time, as I described in my debate, there are many published reports of micro-fossils in precambrian rocks. I discussed all of them in my book, "Evolution: The Challenge of the Fossil Record," which was published two years ago. [Note here that Gish is saying that he *knows* now that there are precambrian fossils, and that he has known it for at least a couple of years.] - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Plimer's response during his 10(?)-minute rebuttal period - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - This little book seems to have caused a little trouble with our friend. It was written 17 years ago and he refuted it. Why is it I could buy it outside, 20 minutes ago? [And the ICR is *still* selling it without correction or disclaimer. Gish got hammered for distributing the pamphlet in 1988. He admitted that he knew no later than 1985 that some of the claims in it were false. WHY IS THE ICR STILL SELLING IT?] --- FMail 0.92 * Origin: The Open Forum SD CA (619)284-0799 (1:202/212) Date: Sat Sep 11 1993 17:42:00 From: Larry Sites To: All Subj: More Icr Lies EVOLUTION ------------------------------- Well the ICR is STILL actively lieing. When I was at the ICR, I picked up the September copy of _Acts & Facts_. On page 6 is the radio log for their program Science, Scripture, and Salvation. On sept. 11 and 18, Duane Gish is listed as presenting a 2 part program about Missing Links. I called the ICR at 619-448-0900 to find out when the program would be on in San Diego. Today, Sept. 11, 1993 at 4:30 pm, I, Larry Sites listened to the program on KECR FM 93.3. Duane Gish talked for about 10 minutes about how the "Missing Links" between humans and their ancestors are still missing. He said it was all documented in his book, "Evolution: The Challenge of the Fossil Record". After Gish finished, the announcer came on to say the talk would continue on Sept 18. Then, guess what? He says that Gish is also the author of a tract against evolution. Just for listening in, the hearers can get a copy by writing the ICR, PO Box 2667, El Cajon, CA 92021. The name of the tract is "Have you been Brainwashed?". That's right! The same tract, I purchased last week at the ICR. The same tract that claims human and dinosaur footprints together at the Paluxy River site; that claims the precambrian is void of fossils; that claims "billions of highly complex animals...just suddenly appear, with no signs of gradual development from lower forms." The same tract that in the March 18, 1988 debate between Ian Plimer and Duane Gish, Gish said that "Now, since that time, ... there are many published reports of micro-fossils in precambrian rocks. I discussed all of them in my book, "Evolution: The Challenge of the Fossil Record," which was published two years ago." Not only have they not corrected it, the ICR is ACTIVELY promoting it. Prove it for yourself. Write for your copy. Call and find out when the second program is on in your area. See if they promote it on the Sept 18 show. Then ask yourself if this is a "scientific" organization. Is it interested in the free exchange of truth. Or is it lieing! Peace, Larry --- FMail 0.92 * Origin: The Open Forum SD CA (619)284-0799 (1:202/212)

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