To: Peter Miller Msg #4, 01-Nov-88 07:44pm Subject: Membership Green Party of Canada There

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From: Ed Mcdonough To: Peter Miller Msg #4, 01-Nov-88 07:44pm Subject: Membership Green Party of Canada There are two parties. Membership in the federal party should be directed to Treasurer Green Party of Canada Box 77155, Station `S' Vancouver, BC V5R 5T4 There is currently an administrative blockage at the Resource Centre for the funds of the federal sector of the Green Party of Canada. We have a provincial wing of the Party which has admin problems, this is part of the solution; the other task which the separate address undertakes to deal with is that the Resource Centre is too limited to include the work of the Treasurer and of the Chief Agent. Yet a third is the difficulty of distinguishing incoming mail between that meant for the provincial wing and that meant for the party as a whole, or its Principal Offices. Especially difficult are the donations from BC residents, which are directed toward the provincial wing. In order that the Principal Offices can raise funds in BC, it must have a separate address. Oh, the membership in GP Can is $5 per year. And don't say I didn't caution you. --- * Origin: After Catalyst BBS, What's Left? Vancouver, BC (Opus 1:153/108) SEEN From: Doug Dunn To: Peter Miller Msg #5, 07-Nov-88 12:23pm Subject: Greening From the prevoious message I take it the info I dropped off at the Coop never made it to you. Well you can not blame people for wanting to hang on to good intelligent reading material. I'm sure Allen was able to supply you with all the material that I put in the package. The latest issue of the newspaper just camit has some interesting articles in it. As Ed mentioned, this party can be alittle chaotic but, WELCOME!!!! We need good solid individuals like yourself if the party is to continue to grow. Hope to see you in person, perhaps not until after the Election campaign is over, but soon. Til then remember turning Green can be alot of fun..DD. --- * Origin: After Catalyst BBS, What's Left? Vancouver, BC (Opus 1:153/108) SEEN-BY: 107/701 153/108 221/0 162 520/701 633/366 Mar 3 13:50 #124311 from kthompso@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov Group : NET.Activism Length : 957 words Subject : Re: National Green Movement (long response) Read 2 times MSG-ID: <999@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov> Posted: 3 Mar 89 07:40:31 GMT Org. : NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA In article <5032@xenna.Encore.COM> kaufman@maxzilla.UUCP (Lar Kaufman) writes: > vu0112@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu.cc.binghamton.edu (Cliff Joslyn) writes: >>Who has the address for the American Green Party (silly boy, *is* there >>an address? Hell, is there a national organization?) Barring that, >>what about the Northeast regional group? > > I suspect that there is no formal organization on any kind of scale in > the U.S.A. What would it stand for? Americans do not view the goals > of, say, the German Green Party the same monolithic way. We tend to > see conservation, ecology, nuclear power and nuclear disarmament as > separate issues. Yes, there is an North American Green movement, spiritually connected to the movement that is now throughout Western Europe, many Asian countries, Mexico, Canada, Costa Rica, Argentina, and Brazil. Excuse me while I take the opportunity (it was begging) to introduce it: I was surprised to see no one challenge for a day and a half someone's assertion that it didn't exist in the US. Yes, it's small, but it's new and growing. Created in 1984, it now consists of over 200 (more all the time -- membership is up sharply since the last election |-)) locally-based grassroots groups. There have been national meetings in 1984 and 1987, and there is a conference this summer solstice in Eugene, Oregon that is scheduled to have ~500 delegates from around the country. The "Greening the West" conference in La Honda, CA (S of S.F.) was a great success in October 1988. The national movement is best reached through: National Clearinghouse (816) 931-9366. Committees of Correspondence P.O. Box 30208 Kansas City, MO 64112 (in KC because of geographical centrality). The CoC is *not* the national organization in a Demopublican sense; it is a clearinghouse of information, and can get you in touch with any groups in your area (start a new one if there isn't). $25 will make you a supporting member (they need it financially) and get you the national quarterly magazine. At the initial conference in 1984, the Committees of Correspondence adopted the Ten Key Values, building on the 4 Pillars of the German Die Gruenen (sp?) and adding an explicit commitment to decentralization. The ten key values (ecological wisdom, grassroots democracy, personal & social responsibility, nonviolence, decentralization, community-based economics, postpatriarchical values, respect for diversity, global responsibility, and future focus/sustainability) is not a list of ten separate issues, but aspects of a coherent unified world view, and are interconnected in a very basic way. They convey our commitment to a value-based politics, a new politics that seeks to create a shared sense of the common good ... they are the shared basis of our network of strong value-oriented local groups seeking fundamental change. (from the National Committees of Correspondence). > I think the U.S. is about the only democracy in which there is not yet a > viable conservation party ... Historically, this is probably because until > the last decade, conservationism wasn't particularly an issue that divided > along party lines. Now it seems to be. As the immediacy of the need for > action grows, many feel that one party so hostile to conservation that the > other only has to pay lip service to conservationism in order to appear on > the correct side of the issue. I agree wholeheartedly that it will be quite difficult to establish such a movement in this country; in the political arena, you haven't touched on a fundamental reason such a group can do better politically in Western Europe: proportional representation. However, I think you misjudge the essence of the Green alternative: many in the Greens don't believe that one can just have an alternative electoral politics party to make real change; co-optation will be inevitable unless the electoral branch of the movement has a strong spiritual underpinning at the grassroots level (which many political movements lack). Thus, there is ongoing discussion whether electoral politics is the priority initially -- I personally believe it is but one part of the equation. A basic change in the way people live their lives cannot come from elected officials. > Start with trying to get someone on a city council ... FYI There are or have been Greens or those with Green sympathies in elected posts in Austin TX, Madison WI, Orange Cty NC others. I understand they have done quite well in New Haven. I can get interested parties in touch with a Green Party of the West centered in the S.F. Bay area that is beginning work on so-called Green ballot initiatives [I can also put anyone in Northern CA in touch with the closest group, I have a current list -- the S.F. Greens are sponsoring an excellent lecture series all spring]. I think the best book on the American movement is Brian Tokar, _The Green Alternative: Creating an Ecological Future_, found at no bookstores that I know of. Order from R.&E. Miles, PO Box 1916, San Pedro, CA 90733. $7.95 + .75 p/h paperback, $15.95 + $1 p/h hard (last I checked, you might want to contact them) (oops I just forgot I think you can send that money to the CoC and get the book also). Other good books include Charlene Spretnak & Fritjof Capra, _Green Politics: The Global Promise_, Bear & Company, Santa Fe. I encourage anyone to look into the movement. The Greens are among the few who realize that a fundamental restructuring of society and people's lives is necessary to save the planet. I do not claim they have all the answers, but I do claim that they are for the most part asking the right questions, which is more (I believe) than most the Demopublicans can claim. Kevin Thompson -- kthompso@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov Sterling Software/Nasa-Ames Research Center *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Mar 4 05:50 #124520 from kaufman@maxzilla.Encore.COM Group : NET.Activism Length : 480 words Subject : Re: National Green Movement (long response) Read 2 times MSG-ID: <5042@xenna.Encore.COM> Posted: 3 Mar 89 16:49:59 GMT Org. : Encore Computer Corp, Marlboro, MA In article <999@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov> kthompso@ptolemy.UUCP (Kevin Thompson) writes: >In article <5032@xenna.Encore.COM> kaufman@maxzilla.UUCP (Lar Kaufman) writes: >> I suspect that there is no formal organization on any kind of scale in >Yes, there is an North American Green movement, spiritually connected to the >movement that is now throughout Western Europe, many Asian countries, Mexico, . . . >of S.F.) was a great success in October 1988. The national movement is best >reached through: > > National Clearinghouse (816) 931-9366. > Committees of Correspondence > P.O. Box 30208 > Kansas City, MO 64112 > >(in KC because of geographical centrality). The CoC is *not* the national >organization in a Demopublican sense; it is a clearinghouse of information, and . . . >> Start with trying to get someone on a city council ... > >FYI There are or have been Greens or those with Green sympathies in elected >posts in Austin TX, Madison WI, Orange Cty NC others. I understand they have . . . Let me say at this point that I am not challenging the objectives of "The Greens" here. I merely question whether there is a viable Green Party in the United States. I am particularly curious about your statement as regards Austin. Are you sure you aren't claiming credit for activities that may parallel some Green Party objectives, but are not in fact Green Party activities? I have participated in political activities in Austin from time to time since 1968. I supported Austin Environmental Council activities. I worked for "no growth" candidates. I have a pretty good idea who I conceive to be the "good guys" in Austin politics, even today. (Haven't been there in the last two years, but I have friends and relatives still living there.) Never has anyone mentioned the Green Party as any kind of political force in Austin. I do think there is a member of Austin's city council who probably encompasses many Green Party perspectives, but I doubt that he would claim to be a Green, or would want to be linked to the Green movement. The reason is, once again, that Americans simply do not buy the bundle of issues that the Green Party espouses. It is a simple political fact here that people more readily vote _against_ things than they vote _for_ things. And that is why the Green Party will not (in my opinion) be a successful political party in the U.S.A. The "clearinghouse of information" concept is probably valuable, and useful, a la National Organization of Women. I would expect things like endorsements to be harmful to a candidate more often than it helps, however. -lar (greendog of MassNet Central, Fido 1:322/470@508-534-1842) Lar Kaufman <= my opinions "tame cats on a web of the persian woof may lick their lips and purr for cream but i am a tougher kind of goof kaufman@Encore.com dreaming a freer kind of scheme" *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Mar 4 05:50 #124521 from mnussbaum@vms.macc.wisc.edu Group : NET.Activism Length : 544 words Subject : Re: National Green Movement (long response) Read 2 times MSG-ID: <1267@dogie.edu> Posted: 4 Mar 89 00:53:26 GMT Org. : let me think about that... In article <5042@xenna.Encore.COM>, kaufman@maxzilla.Encore.COM (Lar Kaufman) writes... > .... >I do think there is a member of Austin's city council who >probably encompasses many Green Party perspectives, but I doubt that >he would claim to be a Green, or would want to be linked to the Green >movement. The reason is, once again, that Americans simply do not buy >the bundle of issues that the Green Party espouses. It is a simple >political fact here that people more readily vote _against_ things >than they vote _for_ things. And that is why the Green Party will not >(in my opinion) be a successful political party in the U.S.A. I think there are probably lots of people who _do_ buy the bundle of issues that the Green Party espouses, but the American political structure conspires against them. In Germany, 5% of the vote is enough to get you a set in the Bundestag or the Landtag, or whatever your're running for. In the USA, 5% of the vote usually won't get your name in the paper for the election returns. In Germany, you can make a strong political statement in your platform and still get a few people elected; you'll be in a minority, but you'll have a forum and maybe even the balance of power. In the USA, if you're serious about getting elected, you fuzz over the issues, trying to make statements that will make a lot of people think you're *really* on their side, even though you can't come out and say it directly. If you're serious about the issues, you generally limit your investment in electoral politics. At the local level, where Greenish activists are most likely to succeed in getting elected, there is an especially large difference between German elections and American elections. In Germany, city council elections are run like national elections: party slates, proportional representation, etc... And the council members act like members of a partisan parliamentary body. I watched a meeting of the Stadtrat in Krefeld once, and I was amazed to see how perfunctory the debate on the issues was; everything had all been decided already in caucus. It was very different from the Madison, WI city council where, if emotions were running high enough, a single zoning change could be debated all night. For most city councils that I know about, party affiliations are irrelevant, so a Green Party endorsement would not do much good. I suspect that there are a lot of people in this country who do agree with the Greens' perspective on the issues. But the differences between the ways that politics and government work in this country, compared to the ways they work in Europe, mean that if the Green movement wants to make a difference in this country, they will have to find ways of organizing and expressing their politics that do not seem absolutely futile to most of their would-be sympathizers. I think that means, first of all, that while the German Greens can do well in competition with the SDP and the CDU, the American Green should leve the Democrats and the Republicans to their silly games, while looking for a forum that makes more sense. I hope they find one while there's still some Earth left to save. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* --- * Origin: After Catalyst BBS, What's Left? Vancouver, BC (Opus 1:153/108) SEEN-BY: 107/501 535 701 134/15 153/20 108 401 221/0 162 333 SEEN-BY: 520/701 633/366 1937/100 From: Steve Kisby To: All Msg #55, 06-Mar-89 10:47pm Subject: Pt. Grey Provincial By-election News release via Green Party Resource Centre, Vancouver 604-254-8165 PT. GREY GREENS NOMINATE CANDIDATE POINT GREY -- 23 February 1989 -- Members of the Green Party Vancouver-Pt. Grey Constituency Association acclaimed Valerie Parker, as their candidate for the March 15 provincial by-election. Mrs. Parker is a school teacher in Vancouver. She works with young students who are becoming aware that they face an uncertain, and frightening future. She is certain that their future and their children's future can be secured only by acting now. Mrs. Parker ran for the Greens in the 1988 Vancouver civic election and received over 23,000 votes for Parks Board Commissioner. "The residents of Point Grey are among the most environmentally concerned people in this country," said Parker, "I believe they want a representative who will voice these issues at all times, not just at election time." "The Green Party's policies need to be implemented now," she continued. "They offer an effective new outlook on our relationship with the environment around us. Dioxin, lead and carbon-dioxide pollution require immediate action. These are tough problems and they need tough solutions." This by-election will not decide the fate of the government, but it could be the timely platform for ecological issues that the federal election never was. Our campaign will be urging the voters of Point Grey to "Make the world of difference -- elect a Green to the legislature." The Party is committed to the creation of a healthy society in a healthy environment. It is based on the realization that we must move from a system of unlimited growth -- which is favoured by Socreds, Liberals, and New Democrats alike -- to one that considers the long-term consequences of our actions. From: GREEN PARTY VANCOUVER--POINT GREY CONSTITUENCY ASSOCIATION 5998 Larch Street, Vancouver, B.C. V6M 4E4 Ref: Valerie Parker (604) 266-4118 (day) Candidate (604) 266-9431 (evenings) Or: Steve Kisby (604) 276-7858 (day) Assoc. Coordinator (604) 734-2890 (evenings) - 30 - --- * Origin: After Catalyst BBS, What's Left? Vancouver, BC (Opus 1:153/108) SEEN-BY: 107/501 535 701 134/15 153/20 108 401 221/0 162 333 SEEN-BY: 520/701 633/366 1937/100 From: Ken Mcvay To: Brian Bedford Msg #26, 09-Jan-89 10:08am Subject: This area The Old Frog's Almanac joins this conference today, primarily to make it available to Albert Pasternak during his sojourn on the West Coast, and to make it available to local Green Party users who are unable to access his system during his brief absence. Please advise status - should this conference be made available to the public? If so, under what conditions? Cheers, Wiz --- ConfMail V3.31 * Origin: The Old Frog's Almanac [AlterNET 7:680/20] (604) 758-3072 (1:153/20) SEEN-BY: 107/701 153/108 221/0 162 333 520/701 633/366 From: James Waldron To: All Msg #45, 13-Feb-89 12:25pm Subject: Oil Leak Stopped * Forwarded from 'UNITEX' area by James Waldron on 1:107/701 using Msg V3.2 Via GreenLink: ================================================================= February 11, 1989 CREW STOPS ANTARCTIC OIL LEAK By REBECCA KOLBERG UPI Science Writer WASHINGTON (UPI) - A clean-up crew stopped oil leaking from an Antarctic shipwreck Friday, but scientists said the spill is wreaking havoc on wildlife and it will take awhile to determine the extent of damage to the fragile environment. Speaking by telephone from the Antarctic, National Science Foundation officials said divers finally blocked the diesel oil that had been flowing from the submerged ship's fuel tanks for more than a week. Workers also finished cleaning up as much oil as they could from surrounding waters. "We met our initial objective - to stop oil from leaking out of the wreck and to remove as much oil as possible," said Thomas Forhan, head of the NSF's clean-up effort. Forhan said the oil-skimming boats can only remove oil slicks one-25th of an inch or thicker so "a thin sheen (of oil) is still visible in some areas around the wreck and station." The Argentine excursion ship Bahia Paraiso hit a rock Jan. 28 near the science foundation's Palmer Base Research Center on the Antarctic Peninsula, forcing the evacuation of the 350 people aboard. The vessel turned over Feb. 3, spilling at least 180,000 gallons of the estimated 250,000 or more gallons of fuel aboard, Forhan said. Bernhard Lettau, the NSF's manager of polar ocean sciences, said it appears this year's crop of skua chicks around Palmer Station will be killed because of the spill. Skua are brown and white sea gulls found on cold seas. Since the spill, Lettau said almost 90 percent of local skua chicks have perished - most likely cannibalized by other adult skuas when their disoriented parents failed to guard them. Scientists also reported finding some dead penguins, but Lettau said it was difficult to determine the extent of the problem because predators quickly eat dead birds. NSF workers are banding penguin chicks - many of which are about to take their first swim in the water - to better gauge the spill's impact. Scientists also spotted an unusually high number of dead cormorant chicks and two severely weakened, oil-covered seals, one of which appeared to have been attacked by predatory birds. "Some of the effects (on wildlife) were immediate and severe. The overall, long-term effects are not yet known," Lettau said. "We are not just waiting for the second shoe to drop, we are waiting for a lot of shoes to drop." Forhan said an estimated 75,000 gallons of petroleum remains in the ship's fuel tanks, and about 450 55-gallon drums of gas and diesel fuel are still aboard the sunken ship, which probably cannot be raised. Forhan said he hopes Argentine salvage teams on the scene will remove the remaining petroleum. Clean-up crews will remain on hand in case spills occur during that process. If all goes well, he estimated the whole clean-up operation would be finished within a month. The clean-up team includes crew members and equipment from the National Science Foundation, Navy, Coast Guard, National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration and private contractors. --- ConfMail V3.31 * Origin: UNITEX NETWORK --> Toward a United Species (1:107/701) SEEN-BY: 107/501 535 701 221/162 520/701 From: Peter Ronald To: All Msg #54, 05-Mar-89 04:30pm Subject: US Greens Taken from MIND LINK on Mar 5 02:05 Mar 3 13:50 #124311 from kthompso@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov Group : NET.Activism Length : 957 words Subject : Re: National Green Movement (long response) Read 2 times MSG-ID: <999@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov> Posted: 3 Mar 89 07:40:31 GMT Org. : NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA In article <5032@xenna.Encore.COM> kaufman@maxzilla.UUCP (Lar Kaufman) writes: > vu0112@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu.cc.binghamton.edu (Cliff Joslyn) writes: >>Who has the address for the American Green Party (silly boy, *is* there >>an address? Hell, is there a national organization?) Barring that, >>what about the Northeast regional group? > > I suspect that there is no formal organization on any kind of scale in > the U.S.A. What would it stand for? Americans do not view the goals > of, say, the German Green Party the same monolithic way. We tend to > see conservation, ecology, nuclear power and nuclear disarmament as > separate issues. Yes, there is an North American Green movement, spiritually connected to the movement that is now throughout Western Europe, many Asian countries, Mexico, Canada, Costa Rica, Argentina, and Brazil. Excuse me while I take the opportunity (it was begging) to introduce it: I was surprised to see no one challenge for a day and a half someone's assertion that it didn't exist in the US. Yes, it's small, but it's new and growing. Created in 1984, it now consists of over 200 (more all the time -- membership is up sharply since the last election |-)) locally-based grassroots groups. There have been national meetings in 1984 and 1987, and there is a conference this summer solstice in Eugene, Oregon that is scheduled to have ~500 delegates from around the country. The "Greening the West" conference in La Honda, CA (S of S.F.) was a great success in October 1988. The national movement is best reached through: National Clearinghouse (816) 931-9366. Committees of Correspondence P.O. Box 30208 Kansas City, MO 64112 (in KC because of geographical centrality). The CoC is *not* the national organization in a Demopublican sense; it is a clearinghouse of information, and can get you in touch with any groups in your area (start a new one if there isn't). $25 will make you a supporting member (they need it financially) and get you the national quarterly magazine. At the initial conference in 1984, the Committees of Correspondence adopted the Ten Key Values, building on the 4 Pillars of the German Die Gruenen (sp?) and adding an explicit commitment to decentralization. The ten key values (ecological wisdom, grassroots democracy, personal & social responsibility, nonviolence, decentralization, community-based economics, postpatriarchical values, respect for diversity, global responsibility, and future focus/sustainability) is not a list of ten separate issues, but aspects of a coherent unified world view, and are interconnected in a very basic way. They convey our commitment to a value-based politics, a new politics that seeks to create a shared sense of the common good ... they are the shared basis of our network of strong value-oriented local groups seeking fundamental change. (from the National Committees of Correspondence). > I think the U.S. is about the only democracy in which there is not yet a > viable conservation party ... Historically, this is probably because until > the last decade, conservationism wasn't particularly an issue that divided > along party lines. Now it seems to be. As the immediacy of the need for > action grows, many feel that one party so hostile to conservation that the > other only has to pay lip service to conservationism in order to appear on > the correct side of the issue. I agree wholeheartedly that it will be quite difficult to establish such a movement in this country; in the political arena, you haven't touched on a fundamental reason such a group can do better politically in Western Europe: proportional representation. However, I think you misjudge the essence of the Green alternative: many in the Greens don't believe that one can just have an alternative electoral politics party to make real change; co-optation will be inevitable unless the electoral branch of the movement has a strong spiritual underpinning at the grassroots level (which many political movements lack). Thus, there is ongoing discussion whether electoral politics is the priority initially -- I personally believe it is but one part of the equation. A basic change in the way people live their lives cannot come from elected officials. > Start with trying to get someone on a city council ... FYI There are or have been Greens or those with Green sympathies in elected posts in Austin TX, Madison WI, Orange Cty NC others. I understand they have done quite well in New Haven. I can get interested parties in touch with a Green Party of the West centered in the S.F. Bay area that is beginning work on so-called Green ballot initiatives [I can also put anyone in Northern CA in touch with the closest group, I have a current list -- the S.F. Greens are sponsoring an excellent lecture series all spring]. I think the best book on the American movement is Brian Tokar, _The Green Alternative: Creating an Ecological Future_, found at no bookstores that I know of. Order from R.&E. Miles, PO Box 1916, San Pedro, CA 90733. $7.95 + .75 p/h paperback, $15.95 + $1 p/h hard (last I checked, you might want to contact them) (oops I just forgot I think you can send that money to the CoC and get the book also). Other good books include Charlene Spretnak & Fritjof Capra, _Green Politics: The Global Promise_, Bear & Company, Santa Fe. I encourage anyone to look into the movement. The Greens are among the few who realize that a fundamental restructuring of society and people's lives is necessary to save the planet. I do not claim they have all the answers, but I do claim that they are for the most part asking the right questions, which is more (I believe) than most the Demopublicans can claim. Kevin Thompson -- kthompso@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov Sterling Software/Nasa-Ames Research Center *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Mar 4 05:50 #124520 from kaufman@maxzilla.Encore.COM Group : NET.Activism Length : 480 words Subject : Re: National Green Movement (long response) Read 2 times MSG-ID: <5042@xenna.Encore.COM> Posted: 3 Mar 89 16:49:59 GMT Org. : Encore Computer Corp, Marlboro, MA In article <999@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov> kthompso@ptolemy.UUCP (Kevin Thompson) writes: >In article <5032@xenna.Encore.COM> kaufman@maxzilla.UUCP (Lar Kaufman) writes: >> I suspect that there is no formal organization on any kind of scale in >Yes, there is an North American Green movement, spiritually connected to the >movement that is now throughout Western Europe, many Asian countries, Mexico, . . . >of S.F.) was a great success in October 1988. The national movement is best >reached through: > > National Clearinghouse (816) 931-9366. > Committees of Correspondence > P.O. Box 30208 > Kansas City, MO 64112 > >(in KC because of geographical centrality). The CoC is *not* the national >organization in a Demopublican sense; it is a clearinghouse of information, and . . . >> Start with trying to get someone on a city council ... > >FYI There are or have been Greens or those with Green sympathies in elected >posts in Austin TX, Madison WI, Orange Cty NC others. I understand they have . . . Let me say at this point that I am not challenging the objectives of "The Greens" here. I merely question whether there is a viable Green Party in the United States. I am particularly curious about your statement as regards Austin. Are you sure you aren't claiming credit for activities that may parallel some Green Party objectives, but are not in fact Green Party activities? I have participated in political activities in Austin from time to time since 1968. I supported Austin Environmental Council activities. I worked for "no growth" candidates. I have a pretty good idea who I conceive to be the "good guys" in Austin politics, even today. (Haven't been there in the last two years, but I have friends and relatives still living there.) Never has anyone mentioned the Green Party as any kind of political force in Austin. I do think there is a member of Austin's city council who probably encompasses many Green Party perspectives, but I doubt that he would claim to be a Green, or would want to be linked to the Green movement. The reason is, once again, that Americans simply do not buy the bundle of issues that the Green Party espouses. It is a simple political fact here that people more readily vote _against_ things than they vote _for_ things. And that is why the Green Party will not (in my opinion) be a successful political party in the U.S.A. The "clearinghouse of information" concept is probably valuable, and useful, a la National Organization of Women. I would expect things like endorsements to be harmful to a candidate more often than it helps, however. -lar (greendog of MassNet Central, Fido 1:322/470@508-534-1842) Lar Kaufman <= my opinions "tame cats on a web of the persian woof may lick their lips and purr for cream but i am a tougher kind of goof kaufman@Encore.com dreaming a freer kind of scheme" *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Mar 4 05:50 #124521 from mnussbaum@vms.macc.wisc.edu Group : NET.Activism Length : 544 words Subject : Re: National Green Movement (long response) Read 2 times MSG-ID: <1267@dogie.edu> Posted: 4 Mar 89 00:53:26 GMT Org. : let me think about that... In article <5042@xenna.Encore.COM>, kaufman@maxzilla.Encore.COM (Lar Kaufman) writes... > .... >I do think there is a member of Austin's city council who >probably encompasses many Green Party perspectives, but I doubt that >he would claim to be a Green, or would want to be linked to the Green >movement. The reason is, once again, that Americans simply do not buy >the bundle of issues that the Green Party espouses. It is a simple >political fact here that people more readily vote _against_ things >than they vote _for_ things. And that is why the Green Party will not >(in my opinion) be a successful political party in the U.S.A. I think there are probably lots of people who _do_ buy the bundle of issues that the Green Party espouses, but the American political structure conspires against them. In Germany, 5% of the vote is enough to get you a set in the Bundestag or the Landtag, or whatever your're running for. In the USA, 5% of the vote usually won't get your name in the paper for the election returns. In Germany, you can make a strong political statement in your platform and still get a few people elected; you'll be in a minority, but you'll have a forum and maybe even the balance of power. In the USA, if you're serious about getting elected, you fuzz over the issues, trying to make statements that will make a lot of people think you're *really* on their side, even though you can't come out and say it directly. If you're serious about the issues, you generally limit your investment in electoral politics. At the local level, where Greenish activists are most likely to succeed in getting elected, there is an especially large difference between German elections and American elections. In Germany, city council elections are run like national elections: party slates, proportional representation, etc... And the council members act like members of a partisan parliamentary body. I watched a meeting of the Stadtrat in Krefeld once, and I was amazed to see how perfunctory the debate on the issues was; everything had all been decided already in caucus. It was very different from the Madison, WI city council where, if emotions were running high enough, a single zoning change could be debated all night. For most city councils that I know about, party affiliations are irrelevant, so a Green Party endorsement would not do much good. I suspect that there are a lot of people in this country who do agree with the Greens' perspective on the issues. But the differences between the ways that politics and government work in this country, compared to the ways they work in Europe, mean that if the Green movement wants to make a difference in this country, they will have to find ways of organizing and expressing their politics that do not seem absolutely futile to most of their would-be sympathizers. I think that means, first of all, that while the German Greens can do well in competition with the SDP and the CDU, the American Green should leve the Democrats and the Republicans to their silly games, while looking for a forum that makes more sense. I hope they find one while there's still some Earth left to save. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* --- * Origin: After Catalyst BBS, What's Left? Vancouver, BC (Opus 1:153/108) SEEN-BY: 107/501 535 701 134/15 153/20 108 401 221/0 162 333 SEEN-BY: 520/701 633/366 1937/100 From: Steve Kisby To: All Msg #55, 06-Mar-89 10:47pm Subject: Pt. Grey Provincial By-election News release via Green Party Resource Centre, Vancouver 604-254-8165 PT. GREY GREENS NOMINATE CANDIDATE POINT GREY -- 23 February 1989 -- Members of the Green Party Vancouver-Pt. Grey Constituency Association acclaimed Valerie Parker, as their candidate for the March 15 provincial by-election. Mrs. Parker is a school teacher in Vancouver. She works with young students who are becoming aware that they face an uncertain, and frightening future. She is certain that their future and their children's future can be secured only by acting now. Mrs. Parker ran for the Greens in the 1988 Vancouver civic election and received over 23,000 votes for Parks Board Commissioner. "The residents of Point Grey are among the most environmentally concerned people in this country," said Parker, "I believe they want a representative who will voice these issues at all times, not just at election time." "The Green Party's policies need to be implemented now," she continued. "They offer an effective new outlook on our relationship with the environment around us. Dioxin, lead and carbon-dioxide pollution require immediate action. These are tough problems and they need tough solutions." This by-election will not decide the fate of the government, but it could be the timely platform for ecological issues that the federal election never was. Our campaign will be urging the voters of Point Grey to "Make the world of difference -- elect a Green to the legislature." The Party is committed to the creation of a healthy society in a healthy environment. It is based on the realization that we must move from a system of unlimited growth -- which is favoured by Socreds, Liberals, and New Democrats alike -- to one that considers the long-term consequences of our actions. From: GREEN PARTY VANCOUVER--POINT GREY CONSTITUENCY ASSOCIATION 5998 Larch Street, Vancouver, B.C. V6M 4E4 Ref: Valerie Parker (604) 266-4118 (day) Candidate (604) 266-9431 (evenings) Or: Steve Kisby (604) 276-7858 (day) Assoc. Coordinator (604) 734-2890 (evenings) - 30 - --- * Origin: After Catalyst BBS, What's Left? Vancouver, BC (Opus 1:153/108) SEEN-BY: 107/501 535 701 134/15 153/20 108 401 221/0 162 333 SEEN-BY: 520/701 633/366 1937/100 From: Helen Martin To: All Msg #56, 19-Mar-89 10:28pm Subject: BC AGM and policy convention This is an open challenge to the current executive of the Green Party of BC to justify the planning process for the upcoming AGM and policy convention. It seems upon consideration of the planning that it has been deliberately planned to exclude a large portion of the membership, specifically women, and anyone on a limited income, or anyone in a low status job who can't get an extra day off for the weekend. For myself, $25.00 registration plus $75.00 for food plus $68-72 for accommodation (unless I wanted to sleep in an unheated cabin in the northern Okanagan in March), plus transportation puts attending the conference completely out of reach. A Green AGM has never cost this much before!!! This weekend would cost me over $225.00. Of course, all our single parents will just dig this up out of some imaginary fund. And, of course, demographics around wages being what they are, all the people with whom I've spoken about not going because of cost, are women. Then, even if I could afford to come, I'd have to cope with the fact that the conference starts a whole day before the weekend starts. Most of us don't get off until Thursday night. Why does the policy convention start Thursday morning? So you don't have to listen to anyone who might disagree with you for at least 50% of the policy discussions? I guess this pretty much assures the outcome of the conference, more one-issue party rhetoric, and a very clear message to all the struggling women of BC how much we want them --- * Origin: Stamp Out Cupcake Abuse Now! (Opus 1:153/20) SEEN-BY: 107/501 535 701 134/15 153/20 108 401 221/0 162 333 SEEN-BY: 520/701 633/366 1937/100 From: James Waldron To: All Msg #61, 04-May-89 10:20am Subject: ANY SIGN OF LIFE HERE? Except for the recent messages entered by UNITEX, there hasn't been any traffic in this Conference for months?! ...... Has this echo moved on to another name or systems? James Waldron, UNITEX Moderator? --- Msg V3.2 * Origin: UNITEX: Crime Stoppers Against the New Age Hustle (1:107/501) SEEN-BY: 107/501 535 701 221/162 *** There is a reply. See #62. From: Cindy Long Rec'd To: James Waldron Msg #62, 07-May-89 11:18am Subject: ANY SIGN OF LIFE HERE? > Except for the recent messages entered by UNITEX, there hasn't > been any traffic in this Conference for months?! ...... > > Has this echo moved on to another name or systems? > > > James Waldron, UNITEX Moderator? > > I've wondered about this myself. Along with ECOCHAT and NATIVE, GRNCHAT has been *Dead* for months it seems, except for your postings to which I don't usually respond since they are more information bulletins rather than conversational topics. They are of interest, but don't spark in me an immediate response. I thought this was the Green Party echo . . . if so, where are the members of the Green Party who presumably started it? I'm completely baffled, personally, and have no explanation to offer. (But it's nice to see you're still here.) :) Cindy. --- ConfMail V3.2 * Origin: Cindy's House (1:225/333) SEEN-BY: 107/501 535 701 153/108 221/0 162 333 225/333 633/366 *** Part of a conversation. From: James Waldron To: Cindy Long Msg #63, 08-May-89 09:22am Subject: Re: ANY SIGN OF LIFE HERE? CL> > Except for the recent messages entered by UNITEX, there hasn't CL> > been any traffic in this Conference for months?! ...... CL> > CL> > Has this echo moved on to another name or systems? CL> > CL> > CL> > James Waldron, UNITEX Moderator? CL> > CL> > CL> I've wondered about this myself. Along with ECOCHAT and NATIVE, CL>GRNCHAT has been *Dead* for months it seems, except for your CL>postings to which I don't usually respond since they are more CL>information bulletins rather than conversational topics. They CL>are of interest, but don't spark in me an immediate response. CL> CL>I thought this was the Green Party echo . . . if so, where are CL>the members of the Green Party who presumably started it? I'm CL>completely baffled, personally, and have no explanation to offer. CL>(But it's nice to see you're still here.) :) CL> CL>Cindy. I think the GP net originates from London and GRNCHAT was it's counterpart in Canada.....I'm not sure about this. Doug may have a better feel for what's happened to this group or where they 'disappered' to. If there was a gateway between the Green Party network in London and the Internet, we could arrange to get the 'original' material over to Fidonet. Is there any way to reach the GP net or GEONET rom Canada? I'll CC this to Doug, perhaps he has some answers. The GREEN PARTY (actual poltitcal party with representation) is in Germany. I'm sure there are several Fidonet echos on or related to the GREEN PARTY in Germany but probably not in english and not zonegated to us. Thanks for replying... perhaps we can restore some 'life' here' again Jim --- ConfMail V3.31 * Origin: UNITEX --> Toward a United Species (1:107/501) SEEN-BY: 107/501 535 701 221/162 *** This is a reply to #62.

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