Msg # 371 Date: 01 Jun 92 18:55:52 To: All Subj: Wicca Parts 1 + 2 _ [cross-posted from NE

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Msg # 371 Date: 01 Jun 92 18:55:52 From: The Sage To: All Subj: Wicca Parts 1 & 2 ____________________________________________________________________________ [cross-posted from NEW_AGE_ECHO] [originally posted on 1:3800/17] JS->@Greetings from a Christian! John! @Greetings from a Human (or Pagan if you prefer)! JB! JS->In a msg of <23 May 92>, John Shaman writes to Jb Shaughnessy: JS-> JS> What do you consider a "cult?" JS->Well, it usually stems around, I believe, those groups that have taken a JS->doctrine to obvious extremes being that they tend to have taken certain JS->truths from the bible and added to the meaning, thus conforming that JS->statement of truth to envelope thier beliefs...Twisting the truth, or JS->taking the premise of faith, and applying it to icons or idols...gods or JS->goddesses...turning the grace of God into lasciviousness, and denying the JS->Lord God, and the Lord Jesus Christ. For a second, I thought you were talking about Christianity until you mentioned Gods and Goddesses...First rule of Christianity should be to throw out that little story book called the bible...it was written well after the Jew Jesi died and after his flesh fed the earth...Christianity is not "pure" as you think...it took so many things from other RELIGIONS, that you can't tell where the original ends and the fabricated begins... Here's a small list of things taken from other RELIGIONS and then twisted to attempt to force the followers of those RELIGIONS to follow the dogma of Christianity.... : From the Celts (these are but a very few of a very many) : The Easter Egg - rites of Eostre, symbolic of Spring rebirth The May Pole - an innocent looking dance with brightly colored ribbons around a pole thrusting from the ground. what it truely is\was is a very sexual sensual dance of love sex lust. the pole is a phallic symbol of the male member thrust into the earth mother...there is deeper meaning than that, but thanks to Christianity's warping of the "truth" it's hard to find information about it, and I know very little about it... Halloweem (Samhain) - is the night of the "thin veil" where the "curtain" between worlds is it's thinnest, and the spirits of the dead are supposed to walk...it's also called Ancestor Night, where the ancestors ere honored for their memory.... Cinco de Mayo (Fifth of May) - is a Spanish festival which is really just a change of date for Beltaine...the Spaniards were Celtic before Rome thrust Christianity upon them... The Grail - from Bran's cauldron......I've nae found many tales of this, because the bookstores here (Southeast GA) are far from decent...too many christian watchdogs who won't allow anything that contradicts or disproves any aspect of Christianity... From the Norse : Days of the week - Thursday (Thor's Day), Wednesday (Wod's (Odhinn) Day), Tuesday (Tiw's Day), Friday (Freya's Day) the Yule log - burned in a rite of Thor...the meaning is partialy lost as a result of being so vehemently integrated, and then the "converting" of the "barbarians"...the "Converts" were "converted" by the sword or the purse (the purse bought the sword) The Heart symbol - Is a sign of Freya, symbolic of the buttocks and mons...suprising, huh? the sign of the cross - is the sign of the hammer...which dates back well into the Teutonic times or before...Christianity didn't use the cross as a symbol until after they had contact with the teutonic or descendants of the teutonic peoples... The crucifixion and ascendence of the Jesi to heaven - is from Odhinn's impalement onto the World-tree Ygdrassil for nine days and nine nights from his own spear to "find" the runes...he also gave his left eye at the well of knowledge to gain the secrets of the runes. The Grail - The Poetic Mead...Odhinn spent 3 nights with the etin-wife, Gunnlodh, to "win" it's return. From various others : The Pentagram - I forget what culture this symbol is from, if any particular one can be traced as the originator, this predates Christianity's concept of the 6000 year old creation... Christmas - was origionaly January 12th, but was re-located back a few days so it comes within the Yule-Tide fortnight. and also is very close to the winter solstice (12-21) Too many more to name - are from too many other things to name as well... JS-> JS> That aside, most of us felt that the Christian religion either JS-> JS> failed us, or just had nothing to offer us. JS->Well, I do understand, however, I also know that Jesus said that he JS->would never leave you or forsake you...how you understand Gods Promises JS->are the key, to understanding why you would want to stay trusting in Him. "God"'s promises are what you believe in YOUR heart. There is more than one "God" or Diety out there...but they're not really "out"...the god or diety you worship is within you, but that's difficult to comprehend, I believe I remember the priest (I went to a Catholic school) saying one thing that felt right..."God is within all of us, wether the old testament or the new..." or words to that effect...I don't believe in the Christian God (what a name )..."He" was and is not right for ME... I follow a mix of Celtic, Nordic (Norse), a touch of Wicca (which is also evident in both of the other 2...Matriarchy...), and heavily laced with my personal views\thoughts\beliefs and I implement others' views into my own when they "feel" right...my faith is strong enough that I can adopt easily without weakening...but it's not really adopting when it's something I believed in all along, but never had the words to express them......my beliefs are my own, however...I'll talk about them if pressed, but I'll not force them on anyone... JS->But as for failing ...the religion may have failed you but Jesus will JS->never...you may have chosen to walk away from HIm but, that was your JS->choice! Who are you to say that John walked away from anything? Who are you to say he was Christian in the first place? When I was 5, I realized that I wasn't Christian...Christianity was forced upon me from birth, but it was like having doll-clothes made for a small doll forced upon a person...they never fit, baptism didn't fit, christianity simply did not fit me...I'm not Christian, and as such, Jesus was a carpenter, a near black, jewish carpenter, a dead, near-black, jewish carpenter, who spoke prophicies of a YOUNG diety named God. and a lonely diety at that. JS-> JS>> Now I understand that any and every "religion" is subject to flaws JS-> JS> and doctrinal misunderstandings, but based principally from what the JS-> JS> Bible says, JS-> JS> But many of us don't recognize the Bible. JS->Too bad about that...but oh well... It's not too bad...it's good actually...would you rather have someone say their Christian, and cow-toe when they're around you, when they're not christian, just so you can feel comfortable? Pagan is NOT Satanic. Being a devout Christian is Satanic, because to be a devout Christian, you must worship not only God as being most high, but Satan as being most low. There is no Satan or Heaven or Hell outside the Christian Mythos. JS-> JS>> there are obviously groups that deny the Power of God and worship JS-> JS>> other gods as well... any thoughts? JS-> JS> Not "deny" your God, or his power, but recognize that he is but one JS-> JS> of many who hold equal power. JS->Oh... Matthew 28:18 Says that ALL power was given to Jesus in Heaven and JS->in Earth...I suppose believing in Jesus is the key to believing in that JS->scripture. ALL power could not have been given to Jesus on Earth. in heaven mayhaps, since that's within the domain of the spirit, the ghostie and the dead jew......Earth IS...the Multiverse IS...without God, there would still be the multiverse...Earth would still be here...Billions of people would still be here...just minus the few Christians...Christianity IS a minority religion in the world...in this country, where the church is "supposed" to be separated from the state, it's not noticed as such... Also, the bible says "thou shalt not hold false idols above me"...that doesn't rule-out the holding of "false" idols equeal to "Him"...that means to me that you should practice YOUR religion, not someone else's... and that those idols are false only to those who don't believe in them. You believe in an instrument of slow death and torture...the cross. that's not a harmless symbol...it's a symbol of persecution, origionaly, it was from the sign of the hammer, which is a symbol of strength and protection...but it was bastardized into a symbol of hate and persecution...the carpenter wasn't the only one nailed to one...there were thousands of othersbefore and after "He" was nailed to it...people ewre nailed upside-down to them to send their spirits to Hell. people who were 99% of the time wrongly accused of witchcraft. that is only one of the atrocities done in the name of God and "love"... Sage --- DB B1070/001027 * Origin: Rights On! - Religion Free Always! - Titusville_FL_USA (1:374/14)

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