Msg # 371
Date: 01 Jun 92 18:55:52
From: The Sage
Subj: Wicca Parts 1 & 2
[cross-posted from NEW_AGE_ECHO]
[originally posted on 1:3800/17]
JS->@Greetings from a Christian! John!
@Greetings from a Human (or Pagan if you prefer)! JB!
JS->In a msg of <23 May 92>, John Shaman writes to Jb Shaughnessy:
JS-> JS> What do you consider a "cult?"
JS->Well, it usually stems around, I believe, those groups that have taken a
JS->doctrine to obvious extremes being that they tend to have taken certain
JS->truths from the bible and added to the meaning, thus conforming that
JS->statement of truth to envelope thier beliefs...Twisting the truth, or
JS->taking the premise of faith, and applying it to icons or idols...gods or
JS->goddesses...turning the grace of God into lasciviousness, and denying the
JS->Lord God, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
For a second, I thought you were talking about Christianity until you
mentioned Gods and Goddesses...First rule of Christianity should be to
throw out that little story book called the bible...it was written well
after the Jew Jesi died and after his flesh fed the earth...Christianity
is not "pure" as you think...it took so many things from other RELIGIONS,
that you can't tell where the original ends and the fabricated begins...
Here's a small list of things taken from other RELIGIONS and then twisted
to attempt to force the followers of those RELIGIONS to follow the dogma
of Christianity.... :
From the Celts (these are but a very few of a very many) :
The Easter Egg - rites of Eostre, symbolic of Spring rebirth
The May Pole - an innocent looking dance with brightly colored
ribbons around a pole thrusting from the ground.
what it truely is\was is a very sexual sensual
dance of love sex lust. the pole is a phallic
symbol of the male member thrust into the earth
mother...there is deeper meaning than that, but
thanks to Christianity's warping of the "truth"
it's hard to find information about it, and I know
very little about it...
Halloweem (Samhain) - is the night of the "thin veil" where the
"curtain" between worlds is it's thinnest,
and the spirits of the dead are supposed to
walk...it's also called Ancestor Night,
where the ancestors ere honored for their
Cinco de Mayo (Fifth of May) - is a Spanish festival which is
really just a change of date for
Beltaine...the Spaniards were
Celtic before Rome thrust
Christianity upon them...
The Grail - from Bran's cauldron......I've nae found many tales
of this, because the bookstores here (Southeast GA)
are far from decent...too many christian watchdogs
who won't allow anything that contradicts or
disproves any aspect of Christianity...
From the Norse :
Days of the week - Thursday (Thor's Day), Wednesday (Wod's
(Odhinn) Day), Tuesday (Tiw's Day), Friday
the Yule log - burned in a rite of Thor...the meaning is partialy
lost as a result of being so vehemently
integrated, and then the "converting" of the
"barbarians"...the "Converts" were "converted" by
the sword or the purse (the purse bought the sword)
The Heart symbol - Is a sign of Freya, symbolic of the buttocks
and mons...suprising, huh?
the sign of the cross - is the sign of the hammer...which dates
back well into the Teutonic times or
before...Christianity didn't use the
cross as a symbol until after they had
contact with the teutonic or descendants
of the teutonic peoples...
The crucifixion and ascendence of the Jesi to heaven -
is from Odhinn's impalement onto the
World-tree Ygdrassil for nine days and
nine nights from his own spear to "find"
the runes...he also gave his left eye at
the well of knowledge to gain the secrets
of the runes.
The Grail - The Poetic Mead...Odhinn spent 3 nights with
the etin-wife, Gunnlodh, to "win" it's return.
From various others :
The Pentagram - I forget what culture this symbol is from, if any
particular one can be traced as the originator,
this predates Christianity's concept of the 6000
year old creation...
Christmas - was origionaly January 12th, but was re-located back
a few days so it comes within the Yule-Tide fortnight.
and also is very close to the winter solstice (12-21)
Too many more to name - are from too many other things to name as
JS-> JS> That aside, most of us felt that the Christian religion either
JS-> JS> failed us, or just had nothing to offer us.
JS->Well, I do understand, however, I also know that Jesus said that he
JS->would never leave you or forsake you...how you understand Gods Promises
JS->are the key, to understanding why you would want to stay trusting in Him.
"God"'s promises are what you believe in YOUR heart. There is more than
one "God" or Diety out there...but they're not really "out"...the god or
diety you worship is within you, but that's difficult to comprehend, I
believe I remember the priest (I went to a Catholic school) saying one
thing that felt right..."God is within all of us, wether the old
testament or the new..." or words to that effect...I don't believe in the
Christian God (what a name )..."He" was and is not right for ME... I
follow a mix of Celtic, Nordic (Norse), a touch of Wicca (which is also
evident in both of the other 2...Matriarchy...), and heavily laced with
my personal views\thoughts\beliefs and I implement others' views into my
own when they "feel" right...my faith is strong enough that I can adopt
easily without weakening...but it's not really adopting when it's
something I believed in all along, but never had the words to express
them......my beliefs are my own, however...I'll talk about them if
pressed, but I'll not force them on anyone...
JS->But as for failing ...the religion may have failed you but Jesus will
JS->never...you may have chosen to walk away from HIm but, that was your
Who are you to say that John walked away from anything? Who are you to
say he was Christian in the first place? When I was 5, I realized that I
wasn't Christian...Christianity was forced upon me from birth, but it was
like having doll-clothes made for a small doll forced upon a person...they
never fit, baptism didn't fit, christianity simply did not fit me...I'm not
Christian, and as such, Jesus was a carpenter, a near black, jewish
carpenter, a dead, near-black, jewish carpenter, who spoke prophicies of a
YOUNG diety named God. and a lonely diety at that.
JS-> JS>> Now I understand that any and every "religion" is subject to flaws
JS-> JS> and doctrinal misunderstandings, but based principally from what the
JS-> JS> Bible says,
JS-> JS> But many of us don't recognize the Bible.
JS->Too bad about that...but oh well...
It's not too bad...it's good actually...would you rather have someone say
their Christian, and cow-toe when they're around you, when they're not
christian, just so you can feel comfortable? Pagan is NOT Satanic. Being
a devout Christian is Satanic, because to be a devout Christian, you must
worship not only God as being most high, but Satan as being most low.
There is no Satan or Heaven or Hell outside the Christian Mythos.
JS-> JS>> there are obviously groups that deny the Power of God and worship
JS-> JS>> other gods as well... any thoughts?
JS-> JS> Not "deny" your God, or his power, but recognize that he is but one
JS-> JS> of many who hold equal power.
JS->Oh... Matthew 28:18 Says that ALL power was given to Jesus in Heaven and
JS->in Earth...I suppose believing in Jesus is the key to believing in that
ALL power could not have been given to Jesus on Earth. in heaven mayhaps,
since that's within the domain of the spirit, the ghostie and the dead
jew......Earth IS...the Multiverse IS...without God, there would still be
the multiverse...Earth would still be here...Billions of people would
still be here...just minus the few Christians...Christianity IS a
minority religion in the world...in this country, where the church is
"supposed" to be separated from the state, it's not noticed as such...
Also, the bible says "thou shalt not hold false idols above me"...that
doesn't rule-out the holding of "false" idols equeal to "Him"...that
means to me that you should practice YOUR religion, not someone else's...
and that those idols are false only to those who don't believe in them.
You believe in an instrument of slow death and torture...the cross.
that's not a harmless symbol...it's a symbol of persecution, origionaly,
it was from the sign of the hammer, which is a symbol of strength and
protection...but it was bastardized into a symbol of hate and
persecution...the carpenter wasn't the only one nailed to one...there
were thousands of othersbefore and after "He" was nailed to it...people
ewre nailed upside-down to them to send their spirits to Hell. people who
were 99% of the time wrongly accused of witchcraft. that is only one of
the atrocities done in the name of God and "love"...
--- DB B1070/001027
* Origin: Rights On! - Religion Free Always! - Titusville_FL_USA (1:374/14)