In article firstname.lastname@example.org (Roger Lee
>Michael Loomis recently posted someone's opinions of the Pascal argument
>thing, and I had an observation...
>Where the heck do you people get your infomation? IS their one Atheist
>that you all look to that feeds you these lies[sic] about the bible, and
>Jesus and God[sic]?
Hey, we don't make ANYTHING up about the bible, or any of the incompatible
religions which ALL claim to be based on it. Why should we? We just give it
the same credence as all the other holy books of all the other religions.
If you think other believers have told us lies, take it up with them, not
us. About once a month on average, some fundie comes and tells us that if
there isn't a god, then it doesn't cost us anything to believe in it, but
if there is one, and we don't believe in it, then we are either destined
for hell, or missing out on all the rewards depending on which sect the
poster happens to follow.
The trouble is, there are thousands of religions out there, each claiming
to be the One True Faith (tm), from thousands of years ago to the present.
A lot of these, including yours, claim to be exclusive. They can't all be
right. The posters of this kind of wager (I won't call it Pascal's Wager
since you think it isn't) all assume that atheism is a rejection of their
particular god, and don't seem to understand that all the claims of all
the other gods are just as valid, or just as unverifiable.
WE DON'T BELIEVE IN ANY GOD. NOT JUST YOURS.
>Who said that God could not be bothered by the extreme sufferings in the
>The whole new testament of the holy bible talks about what God did to
>remove the sufferings of the world!
WE DON'T FAQQING BELIEVE IN "GOD" OR THE BIBLE. You know that, so why expect
us to even understand any argument that presupposes "God", or expect us to
hold the bible in the same kind of esteem that you obviously do? This is
just plain silly. If you had substituted Krishna and the Bhagavad-Gita,
would this argument have convinced you? If not, why expect arguments that
assume "God" and the bible impress us? This is just plain common sense.
>Has any of you non-belivers ever sat down with the bible and read? Ever
>studied it 1% as much as your text books?
Another one who thinks that we have only to read the bible and we will be
convinced. Well, I've got news for you. Moslem and Hari Krishna fundies
have told us the same thing about the Koran and the Bhagavad-Gita. Mormons
tell me the same thing about the book of Mormon, etc. etc.......
I regard all of these as a fascinating mixture of myth, legend, history
religion, and an interesting way of learning about long lost cultures.
It would probably surprise you how many alt.atheism regulars HAVE read the
bible but not come to same conclusions that you have.
Which parts do you believe? Why? Which parts do you not believe? Why?
If you believe all of it, then how do you explain the obvious inconsistencies?
This is where the different interpretations come from, and is the origin of
all the different forms of christianity, all of which are just as valid as
>I think not.
Well, you think wrong, don't you.
>If you think otherwise, I would like very much to meet you, as I have
>never met a person who has been open-minded, and thought the bible was
>crap. I would like very much the opportunity to discuss the opinions we
>have, in a civil fashion. I mean let's get this cleared up, once and
You have made several mistakes:
- Atheists don't believe in any god, not just yours.
- You think that your god is the only one that theists believe in.
- You expect everybody to hold the bible in the same kind of esteem that
- You think that believers in other religions don't make the same kind of
claims about their god and their religion, that you do.
- You think that atheists haven't read your bible.
- If you expect us to accept your arguments, you should at least try them
out on yourself by substituting another deity and holy book. If they
then sound silly to you, they will sound just as silly to us.
- And most of all, you haven't had the common sense to realise that we
have been bombarded with exactly same arguments in favour of Allah,
Probably not until you can come up with something original, that isn't
just preaching to the choir.
>And remember that if you let this opportunity pass by, you are hiding
>(as most of you do), and letting a believer in Christ think he's doing
>something for his Lord.
I hope you're wearing your asbestos suit because nobody here is hiding.
As far as we are concerned, until you can convince us otherwise, it is
all just a figment of your imagination. And you accuse us of hiding from
your delusion? We don't care what you believe in. Just don't try to
force it on everybody else.
>Please do me the honor, and yourself of proving me wrong. Because, if
>I'm wrong, then I would like to know.
We don't have to prove anything. You have come here to attack us from a
position of ignorance.
>Let me just end by saying in response to the closing remarks of the
>writer that Michael re-sent, that I think there is a very good chance of
>finding the right "religion", if you look. And if you find it, you win.
That would take several lifetimes of search with no guarantee of actually
finding one. I assume that you started your search with the early Earth
Mother religions, and went via the Druids, Zeus, Osiris, Appollo, Mithras,
Quetzacotl, Thor, Odin and all the others too numerous to mention. If not,
how do you know that you have found the right religion?
>Jesus replied: "Love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all
>your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest
>commandment. The second is like it, Love your neighbor as yourself.
>All the Law and Prophets hang on these two commandments." -Matt
Another mistake you made:
- Sermonising .sigs aren't appreciated either.