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Path: ncsuvm!ncsuvx!lll-winken!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu! zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!cs.utexas.edu!rice!uw-beaver!milton!blake!mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU From: mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (Mark Crispin) Newsgroups: alt.atheism Subject: "historical evidence" for JC Message-ID: <6067@blake.acs.washington.edu> Date: 28 Feb 90 01:37:17 GMT Sender: news@blake.acs.washington.edu Distribution: alt Organization: Mendou Zaibatsu, Tomobiki-Cho, Butsumetsu-Shi Lines: 81 There is, in fact, *no* historical evidence for JC. All of the books of the New Testament were written at least 150 years after the purported life of JC. That is one reason why it JC's "prophecies" of soon-to-come events were so close to the mark -- they were, in fact, already past history!! Contemporary Roman accounts have nothing on JC, or of the JC cult. Certainly all the alleged persecutions of Xtians in the first hundred years would have been recorded, someplace. There is no such record. What is clear is: some time after the Jewish revolt c. 70 and its being crushed, a heresy of Judiasm developed among the survivors. It took many elements from other cults of the time; even the stories of JC's virgin birth, sayings, healings of the sick, crucifixion, and resurrection, were lifted shamelessly. There is not a single original idea in Xtianity. These cultists didn't bathe, castrated themselves (and sometimes any unlucky travellers who fell into their clutches!), ranted and raved in the streets, and in general made themselves thoroughly obnoxious to the society of the time. In other words, they were looked on with as much disgust as we today look at Moonies or Hare Krishnas. Freedoms of speech/religion being a relatively recent concept, it's not difficult to surmise that the early Xtians were beaten up or generally kicked around. Their not bathing must have nauseated the cleanliness-conscious Romans, just as castrationmust have revolted them. Let's face it, who hasn't want to beat the shit out of a particularly obnoxious religious cultist whose harassing you in the street? Presently, like most cults that fail to die out after a few years, they acquired some respectability. They mellowed out a bit, and got a few respectable people to join. They also started buttering up to government in a serious way. The harsh anti-Roman tracts were altered somewhat to instead refer to a devil and his minions. Various other extentions to dogma were made that reinforced the authority of civil leaders. You can see such processes today, with the Nichiren Shoshu Sokagakkai (fundamentalist Buddhists who more or less limit their theology to the Lotus Sutra) and the Moonies. Both have mellowed out in major ways since the 70's. Both, however, are engaged in major efforts to worm themselves into the mainstream of society, and are still aggressively recruiting new members. Sokagakkai controls a major political party in Japan. The Moonies have been buying businesses all over the US and Korea; they publish Ronald Reagan's favorite newspaper (The Washington Times). Once Xtianity had become established in Roman society, they started writing out their purported books, predating all of them by 150 or more years. Several drafts and variations were gone through before the current favored set was accepted (and the authors of the others executed...). One of the major controversies about the Dead Sea scrolls is that these are early drafts of the Xtian gospels, and are at significant variance with the current Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant accepted versions. It's been speculated that the decades- long holdup on releasing them has been due to fear of the religious scholars working on them of what impact it would have on Xtianity. Anyway, to conclude. There is no historical evidence that JC ever existed. JC's reported life is the same stuff of myths as any of the pagan gods. Even if JC was an historic figure, the gospels have little, if any, association with his life. And furthermore, even if JC was an historic figure, that still is not any proof for a god. There have been itinerant preachers and magicians throughout history. Perhaps the truly miraculous thing is that JC accomplished Xtianity without, in fact, ever existing! _____ ____ ---+--- /-\ Mark Crispin Atheist & Proud _|_|_ _|_ || ___|__ / / 6158 Lariat Loop NE R90/6 pilot |_|_|_| /|\-++- |=====| / / Bainbridge Island, WA "Gaijin! Gaijin!" --|-- | |||| |_____| / \ USA 98110-2098 "Gaijin ha doko ka?" /|\ | |/\| _______ / \ +1 (206) 842-2385 "Niichan ha gaijin." / | \ | |__| / \ / \ mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU "Chigau. Gaijin ja nai. kisha no kisha ga kisha de kisha-shita Omae ha gaijin darou." sumomo mo momo, momo mo momo, momo ni mo iroiro aru "Iie, boku ha nihonjin." uraniwa ni wa niwa, niwa ni wa niwa niwatori ga iru "Souka. Yappari gaijin!"

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