Leonard Newnham Feb-15-93 10:00AM Islamic Law >In S.E.Rigden

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Leonard Newnham Feb-15-93 10:00AM Islamic Law >In S.E.Rigden@newcastle.ac.uk (SER) writes: >>Doesn't your religion also condone enforcing your beliefs by the sword, >>i.e. killing those who disagree with you? Fred Rice (darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au) writes: >This is completely false. >The Qur'an in fact teaches the exact opposite: >"Let there be no compulsion in religion" -- Qur'an 2:256 >Now isn't it amazing how the exact opposite to Islamic teachings can >be attributed by persons such as yourself to Islam? Not really when it comes out of the Koran, see below. >You are, in fact, a victim of the centuries-old propaganda war against >Islam that stems from the time of the Crusades. Please learn to tell >the truth from the propaganda before you give us further proof of your >ignorance. Propaganda? Who needs propaganda? Let's take a look at some of the things the Koran has to say about unbelievers, shall we? As we will see, when it comes to the use of violence, the Koran does not seem to be quite as tolerant of differences of belief as you suggest. In fact, we may even have found a contradiction between your quote and mine. 9: 3. And an announcement from Allah and His Apostle to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Apostle are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve. 4. Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you, so fulfill their agreement to the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty). 5. So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. What did you say Fred, 'completely false' was it? This certainly sounds like forcible conversion (with a bit of extortion thrown in) to me. 6. And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know. 7. How can there be an agreement for the idolaters with Allah and with His Apostle; except those with whom you made an agreement at the Sacred Mosque? So as long as they are true to you, be true to them; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty). 11. But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know. 12. And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief-- surely their oaths are nothing-- so that they may desist. This is interesting, maybe this is where Bobby got the idea that atheists can't be honest. 28. O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year; and if you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowing Wise. 29. Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection. This last verse is undoubtedly an exhortation to kill those who do not accept Islam. I rest my case. Wriggle your way out of this one Fred. -- Leonard e-mail: L.Newnham@bradford.ac.uk ===================================================================== From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) to Fred: Oh, Salman Rushdie's death sentence is merely propaganda dating from the Crusades? I don't think so. ======================================================================== From: Robert Beauchaine To: All Msg #81, Feb-16-93 09:16AM Subject: Re: Atheism is False Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR. From: bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine) Message-ID: <11370@vice.ico.tek.com> Newsgroups: alt.atheism In article <1993Feb15.080153.10262@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) writes: > [Fred's indignation that Muslims are engaging in the same barbarism as the Serbs] >This whole thing makes me sick. > I understand your anger given what you feel is the truthfulness of the situation. Perhaps you'll understand mine on a different issue. I just read a two page article in the Sunday Oregonian written by Salman Rushdie, now in his fourth year of equivalent house arrest as a result of the fatwa on his head. The man can't leave his house without permission. He has, on occassion, had to sleep in 13 beds in 20 nights. He has had to endure public ridicule from many fronts, including from his own wife. His life amounts to what I would consider a living nightmare. Every day he wakes up alive he considers a personal victory. No offense intended at you, Mr. Rice, but kindly stuff your "peaceful" religion.

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