From: firstname.lastname@example.org ("Timothy J. Horton")
Subject: Re: Some thoughts on atheists (really islamic treatment thereof)
Summary: Koranic dictates about non-muslims = disbelievers are pooh
Date: 1 Feb 90 22:00:19 GMT
References: <#BS9D@masalla.fulcrum.bt.co.uk> <1990Jan23.173420.24704@digibd> <15206@orstcs.CS.ORST.EDU> <3634@cbnewsj.ATT.COM> <1081
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
email@example.com (Ali Raja) writes:
>Your hidden assumption: the Islamic nations or nations with significant
>Muslim populations are acceptably definable as Muslim societies. I do
>not think that such is the case - to wit, the personal disgruntlement
>I have myself heard expressed over the lack of an Islamic infrastructure
>in the so-called Islamic societies. In many "Islamic nations" Muslim
>activists are heavily persecuted.
Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall, on Surah II (The Cow):
"from a Prophet's standpoint, theology is childish nonsense, the very
opposite of religion, and its enemy; religion, for the Prophet, being
not a matter of conjecture and speech, but of fact and conduct."
>Similarly, if you are interested in finding out how Muslim societies should
>treat non-Muslims - I use "should" in the sense that they *should* be following
>their own laws - then you ought to read the Quran and some books on Hadith.
Some excerpts from the Qur'an:
(English translation by Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall):
(skipped because is far too short to slur anybody)
v 6-7 "As for the disbelievers... theirs will be an awful doom."
(a theme restated about once a page throughout the qua'rn;
safely assume I am skipping simple instances of it below.)
v 32 "Allah loveth not the disbelievers."
v. 118 "Oh ye who believe! Take not for intimates others than your own
folk, who would spare no pains to ruin you; they love to hamper
you. Hatred is revelaed by their mouths, but that which their
breats hide is greater."
v. 101 "In truth the disbelievers are an open enemy to you."
v. 51 "Take not the Jews and Christians for friends. They are friends
one to another. He among you who taken them for friends is (one)
of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk."
v. 55 "Your friend can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who
believe, who establish worship and pay the poor due, and bow
down (in prayer).
v. 21 "Who doth greater wrong than he who inventeth a lie against Allah
and denieth His revelations?"
v 39. "Those who deny our revelations are deaf and dumb."
v 175 "Recite unto them the tale of him to whom We gave Our revelations,
but he sloughed them off, so Satan overtook him and he became of
those who lead astray.
v 176 "And had We willed We could have raised him by their means, but he
clung to the earth and followed his own lust. Therefor his likeness
is as the likeness of a dog; if thou attackest him he panteth with his
tongue out, and if thou leavest him he panteth with his tougue out.
Such is the likeness of the people who deny Our revelations."
v. 179 "... having hearts wherewith they understand not, and having ears
wherewith they hear not. These are as the cattle - nay, but
they are worse! These are the neglectful.
v. 65 "...they (the disbelievers) are a folk without intelligence."
v. 73 "Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with
them. Their ultimate abode is hell..."
and so forth for a couple of hundred pages. Much skipped even here.
>I suggest that if you are interested in an honest answer to this question,
>then you go and read a book about Islam. Be careful, as there is a great
>deal of misinformation about the religion in most of the West. I would
>suggest getting a book by a Muslim author.