Subject: Re: Some thoughts on atheists (really islamic treatment thereof) Summary: Koranic

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Path: ncsuvm!ncsuvx!mephisto!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!mailrus!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!ephemeral.ai.toronto.edu!tjhorton From: tjhorton@ai.toronto.edu ("Timothy J. Horton") Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc Subject: Re: Some thoughts on atheists (really islamic treatment thereof) Summary: Koranic dictates about non-muslims = disbelievers are pooh Message-ID: <90Feb1.165922est.10527@ephemeral.ai.toronto.edu> Date: 1 Feb 90 22:00:19 GMT References: <#BS9D@masalla.fulcrum.bt.co.uk> <1990Jan23.173420.24704@digibd> <15206@orstcs.CS.ORST.EDU> <3634@cbnewsj.ATT.COM> <1081 Distribution: na Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto Lines: 71 araja@m2.csc.ti.com (Ali Raja) writes: >Your hidden assumption: the Islamic nations or nations with significant >Muslim populations are acceptably definable as Muslim societies. I do >not think that such is the case - to wit, the personal disgruntlement >I have myself heard expressed over the lack of an Islamic infrastructure >in the so-called Islamic societies. In many "Islamic nations" Muslim >activists are heavily persecuted. Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall, on Surah II (The Cow): "from a Prophet's standpoint, theology is childish nonsense, the very opposite of religion, and its enemy; religion, for the Prophet, being not a matter of conjecture and speech, but of fact and conduct." >Similarly, if you are interested in finding out how Muslim societies should >treat non-Muslims - I use "should" in the sense that they *should* be following >their own laws - then you ought to read the Quran and some books on Hadith. Some excerpts from the Qur'an: (English translation by Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall): Surah I (skipped because is far too short to slur anybody) Surah II v 6-7 "As for the disbelievers... theirs will be an awful doom." (a theme restated about once a page throughout the qua'rn; safely assume I am skipping simple instances of it below.) Surah III, v 32 "Allah loveth not the disbelievers." v. 118 "Oh ye who believe! Take not for intimates others than your own folk, who would spare no pains to ruin you; they love to hamper you. Hatred is revelaed by their mouths, but that which their breats hide is greater." Surah IV v. 101 "In truth the disbelievers are an open enemy to you." Surah V v. 51 "Take not the Jews and Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taken them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk." v. 55 "Your friend can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe, who establish worship and pay the poor due, and bow down (in prayer). Surah VI v. 21 "Who doth greater wrong than he who inventeth a lie against Allah and denieth His revelations?" v 39. "Those who deny our revelations are deaf and dumb." Surah VII v 175 "Recite unto them the tale of him to whom We gave Our revelations, but he sloughed them off, so Satan overtook him and he became of those who lead astray. v 176 "And had We willed We could have raised him by their means, but he clung to the earth and followed his own lust. Therefor his likeness is as the likeness of a dog; if thou attackest him he panteth with his tongue out, and if thou leavest him he panteth with his tougue out. Such is the likeness of the people who deny Our revelations." v. 179 "... having hearts wherewith they understand not, and having ears wherewith they hear not. These are as the cattle - nay, but they are worse! These are the neglectful. Surah VIII v. 65 "...they (the disbelievers) are a folk without intelligence." Surah IX v. 73 "Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell..." and so forth for a couple of hundred pages. Much skipped even here. >I suggest that if you are interested in an honest answer to this question, >then you go and read a book about Islam. Be careful, as there is a great >deal of misinformation about the religion in most of the West. I would >suggest getting a book by a Muslim author.

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