Subject: Re: Atheism as a religion (Was Re: Bible in the Schools) >> > 1. Existence

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From: myers@hpfcdj.HP.COM (Bob Myers) Subject: Re: Atheism as a religion (Was Re: Bible in the Schools) >> > 1. Existence itself. (Evidence of a creator) >> This is circular reasoning. >The others think so too. But I wonder why. The existence of >a creator is not being invoked to demonstrate that there may be a >universe. Only the other way around. Both are necessary to close the >loop of a circular argument. >Claude Shouse The reason that this is, in fact, a circular argument is as follows: You claim that "existence" is evidence for a Creator. This argument contains an "unspoken" part which "closes the loop" and makes it circular. The complete argument is: 1. God, if He exists, is the Creator of the universe. 2. The universe exists. 3. Anything which exists must have a creator. 4. Therefore, God exists! #3 is the "hidden" assumption, and you have not given any evidence for believing it to be true. You may not like the idea that "it just happened", but that argument has as much weight as the "there must be a creator" argument, as you have not presented separate evidence to support this claim. There is, though, ample physical evidence to suggest that, whether or not there is a "creator", creation itself proceeded along vastly different lines than that proposed by a literal reading of the Christian Bible. Bob Myers | "What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the {the known universe} | will to find out, which is the exact opposite." !hplabs!hpfcla!myers | - Bertrand Russell, _Sceptical_Essays_, 1928.

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