Subject: Re: God waiting to hear from me?? >In article <9893@ihlpb.ATT.COM>,jcmmaint@ihlpb

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From: jcmmaint@ihlpb.ATT.COM (Dene Bebbington) Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc Subject: Re: God waiting to hear from me?? Organization: AT&T Network Systems UK Ltd >In article <9893@ihlpb.ATT.COM>,jcmmaint@ihlpb.ATT.COM (Dene Bebbington) writes: >> >> In article <1366@csm9a.UUCP>, japplega@csm9a.UUCP (Joe Applegate) writes: >That Dene, is the nature of faith.... yes, there is a rational basis for >the reliability of the scriptures and for God's plan for salvation... and yes >there is evidence of a creator in the complexity of His creation BUT the >ultimate acceptance of God and His Word and finally His Son as the atonement >for our sins does rest in faith. Rational basis? where? I think I must have missed it. And faith to me is the weakness behind your beliefs. Your beliefs are to the sceptic like me a classic CATCH 22, we ask for evidence and are given some (if we are lucky) normally based on just the bible, then we are told that ultimately we need faith in something we can't accept on rational grounds. >Scripture indicates that when Jesus returns all the earth shall see him and [ Loads of stuff about salvation through faith etc. deleted to save me repeating myself for the hundredth time ] >> > When a judge sentences a thief to prison is he cruel? >> > When a judge sentances a murderer to death is he cruel? >> >God made man perfect and sinless, but Man (which is what ADAM means) chose >to rebel against God... this is the nature of all evil, rebellion against >God. It is not God that made the rebellion but the free will choice of >of our father Adam. How can I be rebelling when I don't believe, you need something that you accept to rebel against. Also why are we (according to you) to be judged for something Adam did? More example of your God being evil in my eyes. >Jesus faced the exact same temptations as Adam and Eve, for when he was in >the wilderness he too was tempted with the lusts of the eyes, the lusts >of the flesh, and the pride of life.... but Jesus overcame Satan's temptations >by quoting to him the Word of God. Ah, Satan, this other invisible being. >The nice thing about being a creator is that you get to set the rules... if >you are able to create your own universe, please do... then you can set the >rules for that universe... All I can say to this is that if I were the creator I would not be so silly and vindictive, if I gave someone freewill I would accept his use of it. I wouldn't expect to have my cake AND eat it. In other words I would not behave like a spoilt child not getting his own way. >God has given man EVERY oppurtunity to get it right... but still man rebels >in both deed and heart toward the will of God. Why shouldn't we be judged! Every opportunity eh? If he doesn't make himself known clearly and incontrovertibly then your statement may carry some weight, but since this hasn't happened I would question your use of the word EVERY. >> > But God is also Love... in that He became flesh and paid the penalty for >> > all of our sins... and a steep penalty it was! But according to you I have sinned and will have to pay the penalty for it, so how has he paid the penalty for my sin? >has cleansed our sins... for this there is no PROOF only faith! But such is >the faith that saves! I don't think there is any point in continuing our discussion as in the end you always resort to faith which is the reason why I find your whole belief system silly and groundless. If you wish to respond to this article then please do it by mail as we are adding nothing useful to the net. >> >>> Yes, Dene make a decision based on research and study but not >> >> Including your opinion as well Joe? > >Yes, NOT ON MY OPINION EITHER! Then why are you so concerned to give it me? >There is only one ruler by which to guage God and by which to consider our >Lord, Jesus Christ: The Word of God > >I can point you is various directions... I being a simple servant may even >lead you astray... But the Word of God under the guidence of His Holy Spirit ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ So you may not be right after all, this seems to go against your normally assertive and confident manner. >will never lead you astray for everything therein points to Jesus Christ, >the hope of glory! > - Joe Applegate - A book (the bible) that contains inconsistencies and cannot be taken too literally would I suggest be likely to lead astray. =============================================================================== : Dene Bebbington. "Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but : : AT&T Network Systems UK Ltd. certainty is absurd" - Voltaire. : : : : Mail to: att!ihlpa!hvmpa!dbebbing : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : DISCLAIMER: The views given here belong only to me and anyone who : : wishes to share them. : ===============================================================================


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